Dogface Puffer and low PH - Warning! long email. Env. dis., mucho reading 10/25/10
Hi to WWM Crew. (25th October 2010)
<Hello Tina>
First of All this message is concerning a Dog faced puffer fish Juvenile (Arothron nigropunctatus). I have scoured the Puffer-fish disease pages and used the key-word highlighter with as many variations as possible.
Let me start at the beginning but as brief as possible.
<Ok>
Tank and Puffer History.
I started up a small 35L tropical tank in June 2009. My husband started up a Juwel80 110L Marine conversion a couple of weeks later. We jointly decided to invest in a custom made 450L marine set up with sand bed sump (originally a 60L but now the 110L). At the same time I acquired a 96L Juwel and a few months later shut down the 35L.
After a few months of watching the lovely dogface puffer in the local shop and seeing that he was healthy, apart from being a bit skinny. I grew attached and decided to buy him. So home he came, in January to the 450L where he grew in size and strength over the following couple of months. He struck up an amazing friendship with my Foxface and the two could never be parted. (Add also at this time that our RO unit broke due to the frost and we have been using the Local Fish Shop (LFS) mixed water)
In April we finally had perfect water conditions in the 450L and decided that it was time to start adding some corals. However as the Dogface wasn't satisfied with just eating the excessively large and varied diet we supplied him with, the corals became an expensive meal, even the decorative Algae became prey to the duo dog'n'fox.
<Ooh, I do like this>
So after long deliberation I chose to close down 96L tropical (after finding good homes for the fishes - especially my Plecs) and set about converting it into a temporary Marine home for the duo until
<Mmm, much too small a volume...>
I could save enough for a new larger system to house them sufficiently. They moved in there mid-July along with our fuzzy dwarf lion and white striped maroon (Premnas biaculeatus).
<?! In 25 or so gallons?>
Unfortunately a week later a tripped power supply during the night lost Doggy his best friend and the lionfish also perished. I was heart broken as foxy (aka Mad Max) was my baby. 'The Fuzz' was also a character. I got a couple of Humbug and Domino damsels (Dascyllus trimaculatus) to help keep the tank cycling
<Not advised and incompatible in small volumes>
and 'Doggy' came out of his sulk. However the humbugs didn't like the domino's and killed off two of them until I was left with just the two humbugs and one docile domino. I also acquired an Aiptasia eating filefish (Acreichthys tomentosus) out of the coral tank who had also taken a liking to the corals.
<Ah yes>
When the trouble began.
The tank remained stable until 8 weeks ago when I couldn't resist buying a beautiful, baby, trigger fish (Odonus niger).
<... this tank is still too small...>
I came home and checked it all out before going back several days later to pick him up. However when I introduced him to the tank the humbugs took approximately 20 minutes to completely strip him of his top fin. I dived straight in, unable to catch them I was left no alternative but to remove the rock in order to catch them. The bully's now removed and taken back to the shop I was left with the dilemma of a severely injured and extra stressed out 'Trig'. I left the tank to settle for the night, but next day -- lo and behold -- Ich. I treated this (after removing carbon) with a half dose of copper
<Half dosing is of no positive use here>
(Seachem Cupramine). Now 'Doggy' has been subjected to this treatment on a number of occasions while in the 450L while we battled Ich, velvet and clownfish disease that between them has pretty much wiped us out, not to mention the attack of the sea squirts
<? You found/find that Ascidians are deleterious?>
that saw us lose all but one of our rock dwellers. All the fish survived the treatment and all was well and good until '¦
The present problem.
As one of our local garden centre based shops was shutting down, they had a sale on to liquidate. The hubby got himself a great new set of lights for the coral tank, the parts to fix the RO unit and a batch of salt (AquaOne Sea Salt). So we began mixing our own water again. I started to notice that 'Doggy' was somewhat not normal -- scratching in the sand and on rocks and hiding more than usual. Doing the full water parameter tests I found that I had a low PH
<Not surprising at all in this small volume, with lots, too much fish life, likely food/processing>
and taking a closer look at Doggy revealed that his skin had developed a spotty complexion and that the main area of scratching had indeed been scratched to the point that he has grazed the top of his head and looked sore. I have been battling to work out why my PH was so low, reading 7.4
<Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and the linked files above>
and work out what is wrong with 'Doggy' for two weeks.
<The environment... stocking... are the root causes here>
The main conclusion for the low PH was the change in water source and salt. So I reverted back to using the lfs mixed water as they use a reef salt (Sera reef salt) that contains the natural buffers (also scouring the net I have seen only bad reviews for the AquaOne sea salt) and our tap water had always caused me to have a low ph in the tropical. I believe that this has also been the irritant that has caused the 'rash' on 'Doggy'. (The comparison being a similar rash my hubby developed at the same time due to change of wash powder -oops)
Although a couple of water changes bought the PH up, it still remains low at 7.8. I have added Seachem reef carbonate, which bought the KH up to between 10 and 12 temporarily.
<I agree with the adverb>
I tested the magnesium which was 1020 and have added Seachem reef magnesium which bought that up to a more adequate level. The calcium has remained stable. As I was getting so frustrated I opted to try Seachem reef buffer that bought up the PH to 8.2 on Friday evening but then dropped back to 7.8 by Saturday. I also decided to start treating 'Doggy' with Melafix.
<An exceedingly poor idea. Search WWM re>
It was suggested that I could be over filtrating
<... No>
so yesterday I performed a water change and swapped my filter media around. Originally I had a U3 Fluval running alongside the Juwel. The Juwel housed
A half bag of activated carbon, ceramic hoops and Polyfilter. The U3 housed Sponges, carbon sheet and Seachem Denitrate. I now have just the Juwel with half bag of ceramic hoops, bag of Denitrate and topped with filter wool (The activated carbon was removed for Melafix treatment).
This weekend
I noticed that despite my best efforts 'Doggy' has begun to decline. Something freaked him on Friday -- He puffed up to 5 times his size. Since then he has lost interest in his food, is hiding more and has developed Ich on his fins and eyes. The domino has also gone dull and the Maroon and Trig seem to have cloudy eyes. The filefish seems to be the only healthy fish.
Last night's (Sunday) water parameters showed -- (using API test kit)
Ammonia -- 0 (I expect a raise as I have removed biological filtration)
Nitrite -- 0 (as above) Nitrate -- 40 (This has dropped from 80+) PH -- 7.8
Salinity -- 1.025 Temp -- 25.5 oC KH - 18
Today's (Monday) water parameters show --
Ammonia -- Trace Nitrite -- Trace Nitrate -- 30 (a further drop) PH -- 7.8
Salinity -- 1.025 Temp -- 25 oC KH - 16 (high but dropping)
The Melafix won't cure the Ich,
<Actually, won't cure anything>
but I'd like to avoid using copper with 'Doggy' and his sores.
<Copper use is generally contraindicated with puffers... See/search WWM re... ahead of writing us>
I don't want to upset or stress any of the fish further by moving to quarantine. I feel like I'm running out of options and am in danger of the system crashing and causing a wipeout. I really don't want to loose my fish, especially 'Doggy' and 'Trig'. Please help!!
<Help yourself... what you/they need is to be moved to suitably large quarters that will provide (the water, substrate, likely other decor) sufficient biomineral and alkalinity reserve... You will understand this through reading the above citings>
FYI -- the spotty appearance shown/discussed re. 'Chomper', http://www.wetwebmedia.com/puffdisfaq3.htm?h=chomper in the puffer disease pages seems to be the stretching of the pores of the skin during the inflation and deflation of a scared puffer (I noticed this when 'Doggy' freaked on Friday) -- I hope this info can help other puffer enthusiasts and that my PH problem will warn others not to change their water source or salt and cause the problems I've experienced. Always use a decent reef salt which contains the natural minerals and buffers.
<Mmm, yes; but these can only do so much... you've asked the salt mix to do what it cannot do here, given the poundage of livestock, foods...>
Photos attached are of Doggy, the sores on his head, and lumpy skin on his belly (this is all over his skin).
<Again, environmental... and possibly poisoning from the Cu++ and Mela-not-fix>
Many Thanks for such a great site, and for any suggestions you can give me that can help me battle to save 'Doggy'. Sorry for the length of this email ( 2 pages in word) , but I have tried to keep it to just relevant information while observing the contact rules -- spellchecked and read twice -- Main points in bold.
P.S. Upgrade ideas welcomed. E.g. AquaMarine900/Maris filter. I've got big fish that need a big home.
Tina. xx
<Do keep up the water changes for now, do NOT add anymore fishes, livestock period, and start looking for the space for a much larger system. Bob Fenner>

Re: Dogface Puffer and low pH - Warning! long email. 10/25/10
Hi again. Thanks ever so much for your speedy reply. Certainly noted re. Copper a Mela-not-fix. I will continue with the water changes and should be able to purchase their new tank by the end of November. Just to let you know that although these are considered large fish, they are all juveniles and not fully grown so the 96L actually seems quite empty.
<Mmm, assuredly this is not the case; metabolically/physiologically nor psychologically>
I have reduced the feed amounts so as to reduce the pollutants and forgot to mention that I have been adding Lipo-vit to the frozen food diet. I also feed Nori a couple of times a week. I will be registering on the BBforum so that I can ask opinions on an adequate system for the upgrade (As I'm sure you're busy answering emergency emails). I don't know exactly what I did right last night but the 5 fish are generally looking much brighter this afternoon, especially 'Trig' whom is free of cloudy eye. 'Doggy' was in his favourite corner squirting for food and nibbled happily at the Nori I offered (hand feeding is so satisfying). As regarding the see squirts - do not bring anything home from the beach!! - Whether this was the start or not - the hubby collected some snails (naughty boy) a week or so later we had an outbreak of sea squirts. Small amount not a problem - but they took over the rock - depleting the food supply that our rock dwellers need to survive.
<Ah, I see>
They were everywhere - the sand and the sump too!! We ended up pulling out the rock piece by piece and cooking it - yes you read/heard correctly - Into the oven!!. They hate light so blast them with intensity and give them the blow (heavy fast flow) and don't give them the food they want!! It's as good as starting over again!! This may not be the way I'd have dealt with the problem but the hubby is more in charge of the 450L tank and I generally have to go along with what he decides. But please don't think bad of him - WWM is always his first point of call when he encounters a problem. regards Tina xx
<And you. BobF>
To Bob - Dog'n'Fox 10/25/10
Hi Bob and team
<Tina>
Since you said you liked this, I thought I'd send you a pic. Please use as you see fit. Can I apologize though that I am unaware of the pic sizes as I'm absolutely incapable of doing anything that is the least bit technical. Now that the hubby has arrived home he wishes to say Hi and that it was honor you replying to me. Thanks ever so much. Tina and Glen
<Mmm, the raised unpaired fin spines on your Siganid are a sign of stress... Please learn to/use the search tool on WWM. B>

Re: To Bob - Dog'n'Fox 10/25/10
Just to clarify - I sent this picture for amusement purposes. Dog'n'Fox.
<Ok>
This duo had an incredible symbiotic relationship where they would not leave each others sides. Sleeping together, Eating together and sharing food to the point where Fox would try to blow the sand and mimic the dogface.
<These symbiotic relationships, involving these species... are not uncommon>
The stress signs seen in the Fox at the time would have been due to the dislike of me taking his photograph and may possibly have been due to the close proximity of a pestering cleaner wrasse,
<... and a Labroides here? Incredible. B>
that finally annoyed the Dogface to the point of becoming a meal.

puffer with white plaques on eyes... Plethora of set up, stocking, treatment errors 3/29/2010
I have a 150 gal. 5 week new set up.
<... too soon to be adding fishes>
Cycled with 15 pounds live rock, few damsels, and crushed coral substrate. LFS checked water and OK'ed for fish. A large Blue Dogface Puffer, had been on hold for us for 5 weeks. They said all fish have to go in at same time since he's territorial. (big mistake). in went med. Lunar Wrasse, lg. Majestic Butterfly and lg. Garibaldi.
<This last is a cold water animal. Needs to be in a different environment>
All looked well so next day in excitement and worried about territorial aggression I added med. Powder Blue Tang,
<Mistake... this species requires very well-established settings>
med. Greenbird Wrasse, small Goby, Blenny, Black and white clown and med. Purple Tang.
<...>
Two days later added corals and two anemones.
<Is this a joke?>
Then all went downhill. White salty looking crystals on tang, butterfly, garibaldi and wrasse, but all were eating.
<Likely Cryptocaryon...>
The Puffer seemed ok still eating but was squinting his eyes. I thought the anemones may have stung his eyes. I did nothing that day (I didn't know it was a bad problem). Next day everything was worse and now the Puffer's eyes had a white coating on them making it difficult for him to see. He stopped eating that day. LFS said it was Ick add CU.
<Likely the first, but the second... deadly to the corals, anemones... too toxic for the tangs, puffers>
I did, but next morning Garibaldi and Greenbird Wrasse were dead.
<...>
I started lowering the salinity and added a uv sterilizer (36 watt)
<Can't be run with copper present...>
and increasing temp. Next AM the butterfly was dead and Lunar Wrasse died next AM. I then came across literature that read Puffers are to sensitive to CU.
<Ahh... yes>
His skin never appeared to have the white salty crystals on it but each day his eyes had another layer of white plaque added to them. Today is day three of it and he can't see and has not eaten in this many days. I bought
and moved him to a 40 gal hospital tank with external aqua clear filter.
Added penicillin and Bifuran plus (Nitrofurazone and Furazolidone).
<? What for?>
At first I thought his eye problem was from the ?Ick. But two days in the copper water yielded no improvement.
<Actually added to the opacity>
Perhaps its secondary bacterial?
<...>
All the smaller fish are still in main tank and showing no signs of stress and are still eating. We are so attached to
the puffer, (would visit him several times a week over the six weeks prior to getting him). I know it is my ignorance that has caused all of this.
<You are correct here>
We are desperate to heal the Puffer and prevent any further suffering.
What is on his eyes, I cant find any info. and have been searching for days non-stop. Picture attached is from day 1 of white eyes. They are much worse now.
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cryptpuffs.htm
and the linked files above... Till you understand your current position and options. As you will find, many others have made the same errors, been faced with similar challenges. What's that saying? "Look then/before you leap"... take your time going forward. Bob Fenner>
puffer SICK AS A DOF(FACE PUFFER)
I ALSO HAVE A DOG FACE PUFFER
Ick in 150 gal tank
put him in 40 gal QT
his eyes have white plaques he cant see and won't eat
Did that happen to yours
<?... Keep reading. BobF>

dogface. Tetraodont hlth./env. 12/20/09
Hey guys,
<Daneen>
I have searched your site for info and have found some but think I need more. I have a dogface puffer that I have had for a week now. I have already fallen in love with him (hubby has too). We have a 55 gallon tank,
<Needs more room than this>
wet/dry filter, and protein skimmer. I do realize after doing research on your site that this size tank is too small for him and we are actually in the process of purchasing a 180 gallon.
<Ah, good>
Our water param.s are ph 7.8,
<Mmm, low... I'd be reading re... bolstering... Start here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and then on to the linked files above>
amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate is 10, sg 1.021,
<Also too low... Here: http://wetwebmedia.com/spg_salinity.htm
and the...>
temp 78/80. Ok now for the problem...(did I mention I love this little guy?)
two days ago I noticed his eyes were getting hazy (read from your site that this is usually a water quality issue), but he was still eating. Today I noticed his eyes were the same but his jaw was rather swollen (like he was stung by a bee), and he is much darker in color than when we first got him. He is very lethargic and now is not eating.
<Bad signs>
He just lays at the bottom of the tank. We just set up a quarantine tank ( has the same param.s as mentioned above) and because I'm afraid he will not make it I started antibiotics in the qt tank (tri-sulfa).
<? Of no use here>
So I guess my question is...Am I doing the right things?
<Mmm... your care is genuine, but your actions belie ignorance. This fish is misplaced. Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/puffersysfaqs.htm
and...>
should I be doing more or less?
<Yes. Reading first>
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you very much...Daneen.
<Very welcome. Bob Fenner>
More re: dogface... Puffer hlth. 12/20/2009
Hi Bob,
<G'day Neale>
> I read this message earlier today with interest. I've kept Arothron hispidus as a brackish water fish (sold as a freshwater fish!)
<Have also occasioned>
and while that's a different species to Arothron nigropunctatus, I do believe that the genus is more or less euryhaline. So the slightly lower than optimal salinity by the standards of stenohaline fish might not be the issue here.
The swollen mouth could be a clue. These animals may bite venomous or irritating animals out of ignorance: Bristleworms, lionfish fins, etc. so that's something the keeper might want to double check. I do agree with you
that cloudy eyes often go along with missed water changes and the resulting background water quality problems.
For what it's worth, when I rescued these Arothron hispidus they were very dark in colour and spent a lot of time sitting on the bottom, tails wrapped around their faces. No medication was necessary. Once moved to middling brackish water -- seemingly where baby Arothron hispidus are commonly found -- they pepped up extremely quickly. They seem to be extremely hardy and resilient fish. Admittedly, these two were in a 200 gallon tank with a big sump and a skimmer, and I agree wholeheartedly that 55 US gallons just isn't enough, whether in brackish or saltwater conditions.
Cheers, Neale
<Did you send this along to the original querior? BobF> <RMF did>
Re: dogface. Tetraodont hlth./env. 12/20/09
Before I forget, another issue might be the size of the puffer. Juveniles a couple of inches long are really quite easily bullied. If with a lionfish or moray say, might the puffer be swallowed, puff up, spat out safely, but ultimately traumatised?
<Could be; but in the U.S. it has been my experience that specimens under ten cm. are exceedingly rare. This one is doubtless larger... and in full strength seawater>
Anyway, enough for now. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
Cheers, Neale
<Thank you, BobF>
Re: dogface. Tetraodont hlth./env. 12/20/09
Really? You see Arothron spp. around the 5 cm/2 inch mark all the time here. The attached photo isn't quite that small, but the size of the fake Acropora gives you some idea of its small size.
Cheers, Neale
<This IS a small specimen! Don't see them this tiny even in the wild often.
B>
Re: dogface. Tetraodont hlth./env. 12/20/09
I wonder if the European suppliers are getting them as younger fish from estuaries, compared with the older saltwater specimens handled by American suppliers? Hence why they sometimes end up on the freshwater fish lists as well as the marine fish lists?
Cheers, Neale
<Interesting to speculate. BobF>