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FAQs on Algae as Food: Products, Manufacturers
Related Articles: Algae as Food, Foods/Feeding/Nutrition, Culturing
Food Organisms, Culturing
Macro-Algae; Red Algae in General, Marine Algae, Algae
Can Be Your Friend,
Related FAQs: Algae Foods 1, Algae Foods 2,
Algae Foods 3, & FAQs on Algae Food:
Rationale/Use, Sources,
Culture,
Feeding Methods,
Troubleshooting/Fixes, & Foods/Feeding/Nutrition 1, Phytoplankton,
Marine
Algae, Coral Feeding, Brine
Shrimp, Vitamins, Nutritional
Disease, Frozen Foods, Coral Feeding, Growing
Reef Corals, Culturing Food Organisms, Red
Algae, See also the individual groups of
organisms feeding FAQs files
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Phytoplankton feeding - Perspectives on Rob Toonen's articles
<Henry... thank you kindly for you efforts and research shared. We will
post this promptly (below) for daily FAQ readers. I must add though
that Dr Toonen hasn't actually been misquoted. Part of the incongruity is that
Dr Toonen's work has evolved in the many(!) months (more than a year) since
writing the article and presenting the work 18 months ago at MACNA Baltimore
2001. My shared opinion/advice was not only from communication with Rob, but
actually more from several other researchers and biologists that have spent
years culturing phytoplankton in various applications. The bottom line is that
no dead, semi-live or bottled live product can come close to the useful
longevity of fresh refrigerated live cultures (regarding particle size in
particular)... and since fresh live cultures kept refrigerated degrade markedly
on a daily basis (clumping/clotting) until around 6 months (at best), we cannot
expect these older, less fresh, commercially processed products to fair much
better no matter how much money in marketing the manufacturers spend. And for
the sake of the argument, even if I/we admit that any real or wishful claims on
viability are correct about bottled phyto... it doesn't change the fact that it
has a very limited application in aquariums. Very few corals do or can eat phyto
(Gorgonids and some Nephtheids... extremely limited on Alcyoniids). It honestly
does more harm than good in my opinion for many tanks. Healthy tanks usually
just sustain the hit on nutrients from added liquid phyto and skim it out. Most
of our corals are overwhelmingly zooplankton feeders! The argument by phyto mfgs
that the dissolved dead phyto is still useful is about as accurate as a
dissolved hamburger is useful (both actually are in some ways... increasing
microbial populations/nanoplankton... but at what cost?). And the additional
proposal that supplemental phyto is needed for copepods is bunk IMO... there is
more than enough epiphytic matter shed from the shear surface are of the
aquarium interior (scraped and shed algae from glass and rocks, refugium with
macros/plants, etc). Experienced and responsible aquarists may very well benefit
from it (I suspect that you fall into that category)... but most of the folks we
have are new and in need of more fundamental information. And it would be
irresponsible for us to agree with anyone that tells a novice to pour liquid
phyto in by the gallon when they do not even have a mature established aquarium
and protocol yet. Whew! That said... I truly appreciate your input. Quite
grateful and non-combative at all. I just witness so many people getting
misguided by advertising claims and most liquid supplements which are mostly
high-profit "pollution in a bottle". Let as all keep learning,
challenging and growing. For every day, a better way... Kind regards,
Anthony>
>I once asked about DT's Phytoplankton and even a couple of days ago I saw another question concerning the use of live phytoplankton. The response was something about having to liquefy the solution before feeding and too large particle sizes. Anthony Calfo mentions Rob Toonen for his work in this area.
>This is actually a misquote and after looking around the net for a while I finally found Rob Toonen's article where he talks about this. Finding it wasn't as easy as I thought and I actually ran across it looking for other things. It would have been helpful to me to read the actual article directly so perhaps you could add a link to it in your standard answers and FAQ's and let people know when they ask about phytoplankton. The link is:
>http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/r_toonen_102500.html.
>The article is very informative, and provides an overview of the various products on the market, along with their benefits and drawbacks. It also briefly discusses if phytoplankton is good or not: "But, is
phytoplankton feeding right for your aquarium? If your answer to my question about your goals in keeping a reef aquarium was along the lines of maximizing diversity or recreating a particular reef habitat type, then there are volumes of research showing that phytoplankton plays an important role in supporting natural reef ecosystems. If your answer was more along the lines of minimizing potential problems with nutrient export and maximizing growth of Acropora, however, you're unlikely to see much visible benefit (and potentially cause yourself more problems) by adding phytoplankton to your aquarium."
>The concern about particle sizes is NOT for all phytoplankton products.
>Actually most products, in particular DT's and other live phytoplankton, are OK. To quote the article: "Live phytoplankton is obviously the best option in terms of nutritional value and low risk of over-feeding. Live cultures are the standard by which all other products are judged, and the others can be "as good as live" but no one has ever discovered a phytoplankton supplement that performs better than live." However, live phytoplankton is perhaps the most expensive option to provide phytoplankton to a tank and "Storage in the refrigerator may or may not lead to
problems in the home (such as the complaining spouse syndrome, or house-guests thinking it's Wheat grass or some other nasty 'health food' concoction and guzzling some )... " :)
>Dr. Toonen only mentions the inappropriate particle size with respect to spray dried marine phytoplankton (SDMP) with ESV as the primary choice.
>There he does say: "the major drawbacks with this product are that it
does not generally provide particles of the size range of the majority of phytoplankton, and that it requires mixing in a blender prior to feeding in order to get any particles of the correct size range. ", even though
the nutrition profile of the product is actually very good.
>I recommend the article to anyone interested in feeding phytoplankton to their marine tank. I thought your readers might benefit from this information as much as I did.
>Henry Muyshondt
Phytoplankton feeding - Rob Toonen's articles
Thank you very much for your reply, Anthony.
<a pleasure my friend>
I appreciate the effort you and the whole crew put forth for the benefit of us
all and the hobby.
<and it is such thanks and fellowship that fuels and inspires us
in kind>
I can see how putting phytoplankton into the tank could be a source of problems,
particularly if done indiscriminately, in large quantities, and without careful
observation of the bioload on the tank, with the phytoplankton contributing as
lot to the bioload if not consumed (by causing bacteria growth as it decays).
Like everything else in this hobby, it must be used wisely. It is not a miracle
food that can make your tank water sparkle and
all its inhabitants thrive just by pouring it in and it is definitely not a case
of "a little being good and more is even better".
<that is a fantastically lucid and accurate assessment! Exactly our
perspective and basis for such recommendations. Our advice at times is rather
like triage- serves the bulk of hobbyists in a fashion for the greater good
while the rest can pursue, disseminate and discover the subtleties or flaws in
the gross categorizations>
I do not take your comments to be adversarial. Any progress has to be
accompanied by a healthy discourse on the subject matter and you certainly have
a lot of knowledge we can all learn from.
<thank you... I'm quite sure you do too and am especially appreciative that
you've shared. It has allowed us to publish this discussion and details for the
betterment of our many fellow readers that will browse the dailies and archives
later. Very productive.>
I value your experience and insights about the hobby. Although I don't think
phytoplankton should be summarily dismissed, it is very easy to misuse it, as
you point out.
<agreed when you get me to discuss it at length. In fact, I can honestly say
that as an aquarist with experience and some kind of honed good habits for
marine keeping, I would certainly use DTs without hesitation if the call arises.
My previous advice was merely a brief and generic reply (triage again <G>)
directed at the mostly novice reader>
I do not observe any clumping in refrigerated DT's over the few months that a
bottle lasts me,
<we're talking microscopic here, yes? Nano-sized for tiny phyto feeding
polyps?>
but I can see that using it more than a couple of times a week does result in
the same symptoms as any other type of overfeeding.
<indeed... a case of too much of a good thing. You'll notice that most/much
ends up in the skimmer. Easily skimmed>
My previous e-mail was just intended to add another information reference to the
great body of knowledge in WetWebMedia, I appreciate the time you took to
balance the views expressed in the article. Henry
<excellent, Henry! And thanks again for prompting this exchange which will be
added to that very section in the archives and serve curious minds with a
broader perspective of the merits of supplemental Phyto use. Best regards,
Anthony>
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DT's... not delirious tremens
Dude, you are so cool! Thank you!!
<Hee hee. Now I can't get scenes from "The Big Lebowski" out of my
mind!>
P.S. My buddy here at Cordis just told me your thoughts on DT's. I
always
thought they were great for clams, gorgs, etc. but I guess not huh? Waste
of $$$$$$?????
Dude
<Mmm, actually, am quite a "fan" of this product (the
nanophytoplankton mix eh?)... Useful as a food and more. Bob Fenner>
Phyto and macro-algae
Hello WWM crew, <Steve Allen again tonight>
First thanks to Steve Allen for your quick and informative response.
<My pleasure.> I had another question though. I have seen a
popular trend in the hobby to use these liquid live phytoplankton solutions
(like DT's) for feeding corals, clams, and other inverts. Should I start using
this stuff before I start getting into inverts to try to get a population of
these little guys growing? <I doubt that these products are likely to lead to
a reproducing population in a display tank.> If not when would be
appropriate? <These are usually used for target-feeding, as is another
excellent product, frozen Cyclop-eeze. Read more in the FAQs.> I have no
inverts that I have added to my tank just the huge population of critters that
have grown from the live rock and sand. <These are very beneficial and make
great live food.>
I feel soon that I will be ready to jump into the coral and clam
realm and I am SUPER excited but want to make sure that I provide as good of a
habitat as I can. <Study, plan and be patient. These are key to success.>
I have set up my refugium in the manner you suggested and it is looking great.
<Excellent> I am sending out for a macroalgae kit from Indo-Pacific Sea
Farms to add to my refugium. <Worked great for me.> I am hoping
that will help my refugium really take off. <It should.> Thanks again for
all your help. <Happy to be of service. Looking forward to hearing of your
success.> You have many loyal and grateful friends out here on the web. Take
care <you too> Robby Phelps
Phosphate and phytoplankton
Hello Adam C:
<< Adam C is out right now, so I'm jumping in. >>
Thank you for the help. I have added both Rowa-Phos and a Poly Filter
to
the sump. In addition, I will continue to do the 10% water changes
every
third day until the phosphates become undetectable again and then I will
remove the Rowa-Phos and Poly Filter. In your response, you stated
one
"live" phytoplankton brand has good quality control to remove
phosphates and
nitrates, is this DTs phytoplankton?
<< I don't know whom he was referring
to, but I think Mountain Corals and Phycopure are both great as well as DTs.
>>
DTs was the brand I was using with no
elevation in phosphates. The brand which caused my phosphates to
become
elevated was Instant Algae manufactured by Reed Mariculture in California.
Please let me know what you think.
<< I also like Reed Mariculture and
Florida Aqua Farms and I love Brine Shrimp Direct's Tahitian Blend Algae.
>>
Thanks again for your insight.
Joe
<< Blundell >>
PhycoPure for Dendronephthya
Bob,
<< Blundell today >>
Greetings. I noticed a discussion on WetWeb regarding Dendros. I
am fairly new to this hobby but am not new to microalgae. I have been
culturing it for academia to biotech to aquaculture for about 20
years now. I have started my own company over the past years
producing microalgae products and a friend (scientist) mentioned that he would
like to see a quality phyto blend on the market as he was not happy with the
processed products available.
<< Yes, I'm familiar with these ideas. >>
I spent 1 year formulating blends and giving them to different aquarists to
try-adding species that I have seen be very effective in aquaculture settings. These
tend to be the more finicky to culture but hi-nutritious species. The
result is a product called PhycoPure that has 7 species plus zooxanthellae clade
A or clade B depending on culture status.
<< I'm also familiar
with your products, and am thankful Rhyne talked you into making it. >>
The particle size ranges from 2 or 3 um to 25um. I am in the process
of evaluating an even smaller size highly abundant reef spp. to be added if all
looks good. I produce it weekly in batch so it does not inventory, I
get it out to stores within the week it is produced (plus or minus a few days). I
recommend stores buying what will move in a month or less and that way it is in
the consumer's hands and used within a month. This keeps things fresh
and the quality higher. The blend stays live for months in my lab but
the species composition/profile changes from what I advertise over
time.-truthfully conditions in a bottle or bag are well below optimal for
anything living. << Indeed. >> The water used is Atlantic that has
been uv'd, charcoaled, ozonated, and tested for specific pathogenic Vibriosis.
The litmus test has been an effort to raise the Dendronephthya, Scleronephthya. I
have read everything by Fabricius and agree with the concept of organics being
important. I can say that one spp of Dendros I have reacts to the
phytoplankton and remains open a good part of the day. I use hi-flow,
low light and feed copious amounts of the PhycoPure blend.
<< Definitely
what we recommend for such corals. >>
It seems that orientation is not
much of an issue but that still needs further scrutiny. I have had
some since May but the twin hurricanes that hit us in Florida took care of that. I
am beginning to feel that acclimation is the largest issue regarding success
with these critters.
<< Possibly, but I think it is feeding. >>
Other
observations include 1) spp coming in thick and then elongating and branching
profusely...current? It is somewhere in the realm of 3-4 inches per second.
<< Possibly. >>
2) a commensal shrimp often accompanies many of the Dendros I have rec'd-pure
white except for the eyes and gut tract
3) I feed some gorgonians Cyclop-Eeze and even though.. it appears. that the
Dendros do not take the individual Cyclops in (like the Diodogorgia gorgonian)
they react by opening and going erect-it could be the algae I mix the freeze
dried Cyclops with or the "juice"-organics/lipids/phosphates.
whatever.
<< Yes the "juice" has that affect, and even though
the coral doesn't appear to eat Cyclops I think there is good reason to believe
they are eating the "juice". >>
Any comments, thoughts would be appreciated
<< Tell Andy that Blundell says hi. And that we appreciate him sending us
your product. I think your product is great. I think you could also
sell a lot of it if you also offered each species separately and not just a mix. I
know people where I live would order them. Also I wouldn't focus on
Dendros. While it is true they need this, not enough people have
Dendros. But everyone and their dogs have SPS corals. So
that is a better marketing area. >>
regards,
Erik S Stenn
President
AlgaGen LLC
PO Box 1734
Vero Beach, FL
www.algagen.com
772-978-1395
<< Blundell >>
Re: PhycoPure
Blundell,
<< Erik. >>
Greetings. I was surprised that you had heard of PhycoPure
and very pleased
that you like it. I passed the greeting on to Andy who sends same
back.
<< A great guy indeed. >>
I appreciate the marketing ideas. I do offer individual strains but
never
thought to open that up to the hobby. Typically I have aquaculture
and
biotech companies buying them. I am in the process of updating the
website
and they will be listed. << I know I have a group of hobbyists waiting to
place an order, so be sure and update me when those strains are available.
>> SPS....I would love to take them on. I am not set
up for it at the moment. I have had people tell me that they noticed
better
polyp extension on their Acros but I would imaging that the blend would be
great for all the zooplankton feeding the SPS corals ? What is your
take?
<< I think so to because certain species have different preferences,
and that would be the best bet to feed them all. >>
Both storms hit me really hard but I am back up and am beginning to move
outside of Florida with the product...if you could recommend any stores or
distributors in your area I will contact them and see if they are interested
in carrying it. << I'm not sure if Andy got you the contact info for
Corals & Clams, but that is probably the best distributor for our local
area. I think some big etailers would be a great way to go. Also,
I can't help but plug our site and suggest you write an email to Cesnales (just
email us here) about the cost of marketing on this site. >>
Thanks for the feedback-much appreciated << Hope I help, let me know what
else I can do. >>
regards
Erik
<< Blundell >> |
Feeding herbivores in a treatment tank
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the quick response! Just a quick follow up... I got a
larger hospital tank for housing my ich-ridden fish, filled it with
water from my display tank and have it up and running. My fish seem to
be much happier now. The question is what should I feed my lawnmower
blenny while he is in the hospital as there is certainly no algae growth
for him to munch on. Thanks again for all the help and terrific work!
Jason
<Not likely this fish will take prepared food, but I would try greens of all sorts... algae from the "oriental food store" mostly. Bob Fenner>
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Coral Feeding - DT's phytoplankton 2/3/05
Dear Bob & Staff,
<howdy!>
I have a 90 gallon reef tank with all soft corals. I had just recently set up a
refugium. Do you think the tank would benefit from using DT's Phytoplankton to
feed my animals. Thanks
<in amounts as per mfg recommendation of this fine product it would be helpful
indeed for many desirable reef organisms (I love that its responsibly dated,
shipped refrigerated, high quality/labeling, etc. versus so many inferior like
products on the market warm, undated and frankly of dubious value). Best
regards, Anthony>
Phyto source? 1/30/05
Sorry to be a bother- I just sent a message but forgot to ask one more question. I have been using DT's Phytoplankton but my source has become unreliable. I can obtain other versions and I want to know if they are just as good as DT's?
<DT's is the industry standard and they have a new and improved version of the mix with additional species to increases options for particle/prey size/type>
Industry Standard is one brand. Tridacna Reef Farms is a brand that has
Nanochloropsis, Tetraselmis, Isochrysis, all under 10 microns.
The last brand is TexasCorals Live and it is Nanochloropsis, and Tetraselmis. Are any of these good and worth a try? Thanks, Mark
<I have not tried any of the others you've mentioned... and if they do not date their product or ship it
refrigerated at all times, I would not likely bother to use them. Why not go to the
DT's website and simply seek an alternate supplier for you? Anthony>
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Rob Toonen's Article
Hi, I'm interested in reading the article by Rob Toonen comparing bottled phyto plankton and have searched
WWM and the web and I cannot find it. Can you please direct me to it? Thanks, Larry.
<Larry, it is on the Wet Web Media. I'll post it here. PhytoFAQs - Phytoplankton feeding - Perspectives on Rob Toonen's articles ... Dr. Rob Toonen
did perform a study on bottled Phytoplankton products. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/phytofaqs.htm
Enjoy the read. James (Salty Dog)> <Editor's addendum: Following link is
archived discussion - http://reefcentral.com/library/phytoplankton.php
>
Live vs. frozen phyto 07/01/05
Bob
Are frozen Phytoplankton products currently in the market as effective as
DT's live Phytoplankton?
Perry
<Not... nutritionally, palatability wise frozen are inferior. Bob Fenner>
Weaning Fish To Prepared Food- The Macroalgae Solution! - 03/05/06
Thanks for the reply....
<You're quite welcome!>
Real quick follow up. How do you feel about "roasted" Nori from the store than
"Baked" Nori. Is there a difference and is it ok to use. Also, what other
"greens" do you recommend for tangs (broccoli, lettuce, squash) let me know
please!!
Jeromy
<Well, Jeromy- I actually prefer the "fresh" Nori, myself. Well, to be quite
honest, I prefer live macroalgae, such as Gracilaria, to even the prepared Nori.
Look for it from places like Indo Pacific Sea Farms, Florida Pets, Inland
Aquatics, etc. I'm not a big fan of "terrestrial" greens for marine fish. Do try
the live macroalgae as a nice alternative! Regards, Scott F.>
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