FAQs on Algae as Food: Troubles, Fixing

FAQs on Algae as Food: Troubles, Fixing Related Articles: Algae as Food, Foods/Feeding/Nutrition, Culturing Food Organisms, Culturing Macro-Algae; Red Algae in General, Marine Algae, Algae Can Be Your Friend,

Related FAQs: Algae Foods 1, Algae Foods 2, Algae Foods 3, & FAQs on Algae Food: Rationale/Use, Sources, Culture, Feeding Methods, Products, & Foods/Feeding/Nutrition 1, Phytoplankton, Marine Algae, Coral Feeding, Brine Shrimp, Vitamins, Nutritional Disease, Frozen Foods, Coral Feeding, Growing Reef Corals, Culturing Food Organisms, Red Algae, See also the individual groups of organisms feeding FAQs files

More algal growth, DSB, LR...

New Print and eBook on Amazon

Marine Aquarium Algae Control

by Robert (Bob) Fenner

High Nitrate pollution source identified 12/22/08 Hi guys, <Chris> I just wanted to let you know that I was able to locate the source of my Nitrate problem in my tank. <Oh!> The source water was good (tap water No Nitrates), the RO/DI water (taken from the tap)was good (no nitrates), the Instant Ocean mixed with RO.DI water was good (also no nitrates). So I tested the fish food in the clean RO/DI water and I use 2 types. 1) Ocean Nutrition Formula 2 small pellet (this tested NO Nitrates) 2) Yaki Sushi Nori by B&C consumer grade sushi seaweed (Off the chart High Nitrate) Probably used nitrates on purpose as a preservative. This is no longer in use and my Nitrate problem should be over here in a day or two after 50% or more water change(s). <Ah yes> I just wanted to make a post so that if anyone else has the same problem they will think to test the food. <Is one of my resounding suggestions as well.. a primary source... no matter what foods are employed> Also, with regard to my green chromis behavior, turns out it was guarding eggs. I noticed them on the side of the tank where he/she? was swimming. Thanks for the heads up. Thanks Chris Edwards <"Who said heads up!? I'll take some of that!" Thank you for the follow-up, input Chris. You've helped many people down the line. Happy holidays, BobF>

Gassy Tang 8/31/06 Hi crew! First let me thank you guys for the response I got last time it was a big help for a worried hobbyist. I just had a question about my tang, I looked in the archives and any reference that I found to gas was on gas bubble disease which doesn't seem to me to match up with the difficulty my little guy is having. When he defecates often it is accompanied by gas. Is this normal? <Mmm, no... but have seen> He eats a lot of dried seaweed, I also feed him formula one but he prefers the seaweed. I am working on getting some live rock I know that will be beneficial to his general health. Could it be that the water has to high of a saturation level? <Not likely... I think you're right to point to the dried seaweed diet here> In this tank, which is a 110, I have two Skilters which are each rated for supplementary filtration of a hundred gallon, two powerheads one for seventy five gallons one for forty five, a UV filter for up to one hundred and twenty five gallons, and a wet-dry for one hundred and twenty five. There doesn't appear to be too many bubbles in the tank but I am relatively new to the keeping of marine systems. Also the tang seems as though he feels good he swims around looking happy, appetite is voracious, and he relieves himself quite often. I love him so much, I don't want anything to happen to him. Any advice will be much appreciated. Thanks for everything, I don't know what I would do without your site.

A Tale of Two Dead Naso Tangs - 09/17/06 Hello, <<Good Morning>> I am writing you and talking to anyone else I could think off. <<Wise not to limit yourself to a single source of information/advice/opinion>> This past week I lost a pair of Naso tangs. <<Sorry to hear...>> I am devastated over this for a number of reasons, but mostly because I can't find an answer to why they died. Before I ask you to give some thoughts on what you think might of happened let me give you as many details and variables I can. <<Thank you'¦always helpful>> The tank is a 350 gallon fish/reef tank. I keep a variety of angels and tangs, clowns and damsels. There are also inverts like shrimp, snails and crabs. There are not a lot of corals at this time but the idea for the tank is to keep a number of corals with larger variety of fish not usually kept in a reef. <> There are a few LPS and SPS corals along with a few soft leathers. <<Mmm...with "variety of angels"?>> I do have to be very careful in what corals I choose because of the types of fish. <<Ah yes!>> The larger of the tangs was a Hawaiian Naso the other was a smaller Red Sea blonde. <<Hmm...ever considered a "biotope" display?>> I know typically these species are not kept together but they have done very well often swimming side by side and staying together at night. The tank has ample swimming room and the aquascaping is such it gives the fish room to swim in a big circle. <<Excellent>> The tank has been established for 4 years. Only up until last year I started to get into corals having spent the money to have a dedicated electrical circuit for the lights and pumps. <<Reef setups are indeed "power hungry">> Prior, the power options didn't allow me to have the right lighting. I now run 3 10K 250watt HQI de's with PC actinics. The tank gets a weekly water change from RO/DI water and top-off is from the same unit. I dose manually calcium and dKH supplement as needed, parameters are checked weekly. <<Very good>> The only issue I have which is not serious is slightly elevated nitrates. <<...! I don't know your definition of "slightly", but even so, chronically elevated nitrate can/will have effect on your livestock (and what about ammonia/nitrite?...these were/are checked as well?). This may be a clue to the two Naso tang's demise>> I use a refugium with grape <Caulerpa> and Chaetomorpha macro algae. <<Mmm, another issue (clue?) here in my opinion. Grape Caulerpa is very noxious, even toxic to fish (many herbivorous fishes won't eat it for this reason). Combining it with Chaetomorpha in a refugium means the alga are constantly waging war (alga compete just as corals do for space on the reef), releasing chemicals/toxins to inhibit and/or kill each other. Such constant and powerful chemical warfare (Alga rates at the top of the list with some of the nastiest corals for aggression/noxiousness) can't be "good" for a system. Not to mention the loss of usefulness/processes for having the algae in the refugium in the first place due to the "energy" expended on warfare>> The Chaeto is fed to the tank where the angels and tangs feast. <<Hmm...wonder the possibility of the Chaetomorpha being "tainted" from close exposure/battle with the grape Caulerpa...>> The nitrate levels are elevated, but don't cause any issues with nuisance algae, the Acropora and Montipora orange cup coral are growing and doing well so I use that as a measure since the nitrates don't seem to cause any other problem. <> I do understand the bio load may be a little high causing the elevated nitrates, however I go to great lengths to make sure the water quality and environment stay optimal. Of course the tank has a large skimmer on it which is cleaned 1-2 times per week. Ok, with that overview here is what happened over the last few weeks. About three weeks ago I noticed the RO unit was not producing any RO for the top-off. <<Raw RO water for top-off? Not recommended...>> The unit being in place a little over 6 months I thought it might just need to be cleaned and didn't need new filters or membrane replacement. <<Not likely, no..."should" get a couple to several years out of the membrane, even with this size tank...life of the filter cartridges will depend mainly on your source water/how often they are rinsed clean>> The water source is well water. After rinsing the filters in tap water and putting the unit back together it did start to produce some RO however the TDS was > then 0 and could not produce enough for a water change. <<Again... I need specific measurements to really be of much help>> At this point I called the company to discuss my options. <<A good move>> They agreed that the membrane should not have to be replaced but agreed to send me a filter kit and new membrane anyway. The unit is a 100gpd. <<As is mine...>> I skipped my weekly water change that week waiting for the filters. <<Um...not seasoning/maturing/buffering your water before "and" after mixing the salt?>> I received the filters and they forgot to ship the membrane. <<Mmm...>> I waited until that weekend to install the filters. After the filters were installed, the unit still didn't make RO for my water change. <<Strange...perhaps you should remove/gently rinse the membrane...install a "flush" kit>> Bottom line, by the time I got RO back online it was almost 3 weeks without a water change. <<Shouldn't have been a problem>> I didn't think this was that critical as I checked param.s and everything seemed to be ok. <<Would agree>> I started to cut back on feeding slightly which is usually done twice a day, every other day. <<I don't agree with this, fish should be fed daily...preferably multiple small feedings. If feeding daily causes secondary issues with your tank then reevaluate your maintenance/husbandry practices/stocking levels...but don't jeopardize the fishes long-term health by "cutting back" on proper and adequate nutrition>> I target feed the fish to make sure everybody gets enough without over feeding the tank. They get mostly pellets soaked with Vita-Chem. <<A good product...and New Life Spectrum pellets I hope!>> That is supplemented with frozen Mysis and the macro algae. <<Ah good, variety is key...and the more the better>> During this 3 week period, I added 2 fish to the tank one of the fish was a replacement for a small saddle back puffer that jumped out the tank some time ago, <<Jumped!...? Was this fish stressed/harassed by other fish? Perhaps another clue here as well. Could be the puffer was stressed to the point of releasing toxins (jumped to escape its own poison?) and the tangs are merely victims of the long-term affect...and hopefully the "only" victims>> and the other was a mandarin dragonet. This is my first time keeping a mandarin but given the size of the tank and amount of pods I see I thought I would try to keep one. <<Sounds reasonable to me as well considering the "mature" nature of this tank>> During this time I also took a handful of the spaghetti algae about baseball size and tossed it in the main tank during the lower feeding period. Also something I have done many times before. Now the blur of events I have been going over and over in my mind trying to figure out what happened. I can't say exactly when during this period but, I did notice the larger Naso hiding a little bit. He was still feeding and there were no other signs of problems. I kept an eye on him and noticed during the last week that he had seemed to have a sunken stomach, stopped feeding and was staying at the top of the tank in a vertical position. Shortly after the larger Naso started to exhibit this behavior I noticed the smaller Naso also with a sunken stomach. <<Were these fish treated with a copper-based medication at any point prior to this? Tangs treated in this manner will sometimes suffer from loss of digestive microbes in their gut, preventing them from digesting food/assimilating nutrients. Another thought is the behavior of these two fish is similar to those afflicted with internal parasites, though many times such afflicted fish show absolutely "no interest" in food>> I began to feed the tank everyday in the morning and later in the day, both tangs showed interest and slightly picked but were not near their normally aggressive feeding behavior. Their breathing also seemed slightly labored. The large Naso was the first to die, the smaller died yesterday. Neither fish showed any signs of marks, spots, no physical changes outside of the sunken stomachs. Before disposing of the smaller tang I lifted the gill flap and used a bright light to examine the gill. The gill was bright red and showed nothing abnormal. Both fish had labored breathing towards the end but again didn't have any other visual indications. <<May have been secondary to the stress of/weakening by malnutrition>> No other fish in the tank currently show any signs of abnormal behavior and continue to feed normally. I have done 2 water changes last week once the RO produced enough water hoping to save a least one of the tangs. <<Not likely the issue...and possibly an additional stressor (bouncing water parameters), especially if the new salt mix is not allowed to mature/complete its chemical processes before adding to the tank>> The smaller did appear to be swimming around better the day before but refused to eat. <<Never good>> As of now I am suspecting the following; The RO unit; is it possible the filters contaminated the water some how, either the exhausted filters or the new filters? <<I'm doubtful of this>> Did adding the puffer or mandarin bring something in the tank? <<More of a possibility, yes>> BTW all my fish come from 2 places that I trust and know. I never have any problems with their fish or corals. <<Fortunate>> Did the puffer release toxins in the water? <<Possibly>> The previous saddle back was there for a year and never had any issues. Is it possible that something was in the macro algae the tangs ate? <<Another possibility I think, yes>> Again, the Nasos eat this algae all the time and can eat a baseball size amount in a day. <<Possibly a matter of toxic accumulation>> Lastly, I dose the tank weekly with only Kent dKH supplement. The product is added to my sump which is connected to the refugium. <<If tested/added as needed this should not be a problem>> I was thinking maybe the macro algae could have contained concentrated levels of this? <> Other fish ate the algae, but mostly the Nasos. <<Could be telling>> Lastly, the tank has Euro-bracing and is open. The stand is over 4 feet high, the tank total height is around 7-8 feet. <<Cool>> This was done because of the kids and placement of the tank. It is of perfect viewing in a standing position. <<Indeed>> I thought I'd mention this in the event something got into the tank that's unknown? <<Anyone been "cleaning" around the tank?>> I do find bugs every now and again in the sump that must be attracted to the lights. <<Yes>> The only other thing that I thought of was this past weekend my wife had some people over to clean the house. I was not around but always give my wife strict instructions that the cleaners stay away from the tank. They were new people, so I don't know if something was introduce through their cleaning? <<Weren't the tangs displaying symptoms before this?>> Sorry for the long email, <<No worries my friend, I appreciate the detailed explanation (hmm...wonder if I can make an article out of this some how?)>> <Likely so. RMF> but I am at my wits end on this and can't begin to explain how I feel. I have been in the hobby a very long time and have never seen anything like this before. Please help... <<Well Patrick, I have been in the hobby more than 30 years myself, and "have" seen this before. Unfortunately, knowing the exact cause is usually very difficult without a necropsy of the fish. I do have some thoughts/theories as I've stated>> Thanks and regards, Patrick Mundt <<My pleasure to assist. Do give thought to separating/choosing a single macro-algae (my vote goes to the Chaetomorpha) for the refugium...and do take a look on our site re using RO water for top-off as well as making/mixing with salt for water changes. Cheers, Eric Russell>>

Re: A Tale of Two Dead Naso Tangs -- 09/18/06 Eric, <<Patrick>> Thanks for the response. <<Quite welcome>> You do however raise more questions, and also cause me to ask you to further explain some of your answers : ) <<Certainly>> To address some of your concerns, the RO water is made with salt a day before the water change. Nothing is added to the water outside of Tropic Marin Salt. <<An excellent salt (would use it myself were it not so expensive), but, raw/newly mixed saltwater is very irritating to your livestock...I recommend you make it up far enough in advance to give it a few days to a week to 'mature'>> The nitrate levels are not 0 but range between 10 - 30 ppm. <<Too high for the fishes (should be less than 20), and WAY too high for the corals (should be less than 5)>> This is tested using only Salifert test kits. <<A good line of test kits>> I put the grape Caulerpa in the fuge about 2-3 months ago. Both types of macro algae have grown much better since adding the grape? Don't know why. <<Hmm...likely coincidence...feeding off the source of your high nitrates>> I only feed the fish the Chaeto. I do remember having to remove to grape that was tangled with the Chaeto before feeding that day. The first puffer I had was a great tank mate, very interesting and didn't bother anything. Other fish left him alone he never appeared stressed never saw anyone bothering him. In regards to his jumping out of the tank, I have moon lights on the tank as well, and it did appear odd to me to wake up for work and find him on the floor. <<Indeed...not a fish that comes to mind when you think 'jumper'>> I thought the combination of lights and perhaps him going after something to eat caused his death. <<Don't know...but seems unlikely to me>> Usually the puffer finds a perch and sets up for the night. To the medicating the tank; Last year after being begged by a fellow aquarist I agreed to take a powder blue tang from him that was harassing his fish. Big mistake! <<Indeed...a difficult/problematic species...probably best left in the ocean>> The fish came with a gift and before it was over wiped out half my tank. <<No quarantine mate?>> As I mentioned before I have 2 very reliable LFS, I have not used a second tank in years. <<A ticking time bomb...>> Anyway, the Odin. or other parasite moved very fast and as a desperate act I medicated the tank with Malachite Green (I'm sure this is not spelled right <<corrected>>). <<Yeeikes! Dangerous stuff...very toxic (must be measured very carefully)...tends to kill the 'good guys'>> Anyway, one of my LFS sources assured me they have medicated their show reef tank with this stuff with great success. <<(sigh)>> So to answer your question, yes the tank was medicated but this was a long time ago and the tangs in the tank died from the parasite, the medication did get rid of the parasite and didn't kill any of the corals. The feeding of every other day was suggested to me, all the fish in the tank seem a litter over weight, (I think), even the 2 Nasos were very thick and clean. I do think they should eat every day, but I think they have gotten used to this. << <grin> Would 'you' get used to eating every other day?>> I have had a small passer that has grown into an adult with great adult colors and has been with me since I started this tank. So what do you think the downside of this may be? <<Can only wonder how much 'better' the fishes would be with daily nutrition...>> Next, having read through your site, I must have missed the RO part, why not use RO for top off? <<Raw RO water lacks any buffers/earth elements...these are pulled/drawn from the tank water to reach equilibrium each time raw RO is added, creating instability/ a seesaw effect on your water chemistry>> I figured the weekly water changes would replace anything the RO is missing for top off no? <<Likely it does...but buffering the top-off water to reduce fluctuations in water chemistry is a better solution and will reduce the associated stress on your livestock>> TDS of the RO was approx > then 150. <<A properly functioning RO membrane should give you a reduction by a factor of 10 over the reading from your tap>> Based on what you have said, I think I will remove the grape macro algae. <<Super!>> After this email, I think I am leaning more towards the algae causing the problems as I know tangs more then other fish have to be handled with care in regard to diet. <<Important to al fishes...the more varied the better>> Please let me know what you suggest for the water change water. <> I am always looking to hear other experienced advice... <<As am I my friend>> Thanks, Patrick... <<Be chatting my friend, Eric Russell>>

Sea Vegetable'¦Nori -- 02/01/08 Having been involved with marine systems for many years, I have accumulated a large selection of books on the subject. <<Me too!>> Just want to say that Bob Fenner's book 'Conscientious Marine Aquarist' is positively outstanding and my constant reference when contemplating adding another critter to my collection. <<Indeed'¦ And at the risk of sounding like a kiss-up'¦ Bob's experiences and knowledge across virtually every aspect of the hobby lends to some very valuable insights. And, after getting to know him, I can say he is truly 'in it' for the hobby's sake. Also, I think Bob is currently working on an update of the book'¦am sure it too will be well worth owning>> I recently added a dwarf lion because I learned from the book why my first one died (goldfish :< ) <<Mmm'¦>> Just one question... The book mentions marine sea vegetables and so I went to my health store and purchased Nori. My fish love it! <<And you are surprised? [grin]>> What worries me though is on the list of nutrition facts Iodine is 70%. <<Yes'¦as a 'natural' source>> Is this safe for my fish? <<It is'¦and as a whole, this 'seaweed' addition to their diet will enrich their health>> I could not find any reference to it on the FAQS. <<Got one there now! [grin]>> Thanks for a terrific web site! Carol <<Most welcome'¦is a collective effort. Regards, EricR>> <Ah, yes. RMF>

Hair Algae problems Can Nori seaweed cause hair algae problem. RGibson <Not likely... not much "fertilizer" content (little nitrate, phosphate to it/dried, the Red Algae Porphyra). Bob Fenner>

BGA in algae cultures The aquaculture facility I work for is encountering problems with BGA in our batch culture system. The water used is filtered down to .35micrometers and it is UV'ed. BGA is predominantly in our T-Iso cultures and is becoming a problem for the larvae it is being fed too. Could you advise on how to eliminate BGA all together? Any advice would be appreciated. <The S.O.P. is to bleach/acid wash the contaminated cultures and start over with Cyanobacteria-free culture media and Isochrysis... You likely know this already... sorry to be the re-enforcer of not-so-good news. Bob Fenner> Cathy

Phosphate in Nori and Kombu? No worries 2/16/04 Hi, I have just acquired a Scopas Tang, for which I have bought some Nori, and Kombu. My worry is that in feeding these, I will probably be introducing phosphate into the tank, am I right that these will contain phosphate? <no worries at all... nominal indeed. The real problem with phosphate laced foods is from terrestrial farmed/grown produce like lettuce/spinach, etc which is grown with heavy doses of phosphate and nitrate based fertilizers> Is there something I can do to reduce the phosphate content of these foods before feeding? <focus instead on utilizing or exporting it in the aquarium. Other sources of phosphate will enter and need addressed anyways. Use of calcium hydroxide is great for this (precips phosphate)> Also, can the Kombu be boiled to soften it without destroying nutrients it contains? <like our/any foods... it will destroy some/many nutrients. If you must, briefly blanch it instead> Also, I bought this stuff at the Asian market, how can I know it has no added preservatives or other chemicals? <honest list of ingredients is the best I/we can hope for> Finally, do you have any other suggestions for a balanced diet for a Scopus Tang? At present, along with the Nori and Kombu, it gets the mussel and clam fed to the other fish. <having a variety of 6-10 foods of random origin and processing will likely be fine (FD, Frozen, pellet, fresh). Focus as you have done on a heavy green component... and do consider growing some Gracilaria (AKA "Tang Heaven" from IPSF.com) in a refugium. Anthony>

Greens for tangs 5/10/04 Hi gang: <howdy!> Was at my LFS today (the best of three with significant saltwater collections in the area) and there was a note on the Gracilaria tank saying it "won't contaminate tanks like romaine or Nori". <they are half right... romaine is a poor choice. but the Nori is fine/excellent> I've never fed my tangs romaine-based products. . . but my understanding was that was primarily because it was nutritionally inferior. <and the fact that they are polluted with phosphates from the fertilizer used to grow. But this is not true of Nori. Perhaps they lumped it in mistakenly> I DO use Japanese Nori (available economically from a local organic foods supermarket) as the staple for my tangs, supplemented with Formula 1 and live bloodworms. Plus a refugium busy enough that everybody in the tank probably gets a few live Mysis shrimp a week. Anyway. . . is Nori a problem? <nope... a very fine food... please continue to use/promote> Last question: I saw a note in Anthony Calfo's article on acclimating inverts to captive lighting suggesting investment in a light meter. Um. . . how does one operate these generally non-waterproof devices underwater (or is a reading made from just outside the front pane?) <they are not "generally non-waterproof" outside of wherever it is that you shop <G>. Do seek models used by field biologists and aquatics folks. Apogee makes nice, affordable ones> and to what sort of reference scale does one compare them? <depends on what info you seek to know/compare. If bringing a coral home from a friend or pet store, take a reading from the depth at which it last resided and adjust accordingly in your tank. For wild caught corals, there is data on light readings for various species from various locales: check the academic literature, libraries and databases for this majority of info. Some hobby literature includes it too (like Nilsen's articles from Aquarium Frontiers). And for species for which there is no data, get a measurement of light at depth from another similar coral in an aquarium before buying the new specimen. You can/will also use the meter to take a reading on new bulbs and in time to see how they age, stray. For this, seek a PAR meter instead of just a lux meter. Apogee brand my friend ;) Keyword search the 'Net> Thanks in advance for your help on this. Chuck <rock on my brother. Anthony>

Phosphate and phytoplankton Hello Adam C: << Adam C is out right now, so I'm jumping in. >> Thank you for the help. I have added both Rowa-Phos and a Poly Filter to the sump. In addition, I will continue to do the 10% water changes every third day until the phosphates become undetectable again and then I will remove the Rowa-Phos and Poly Filter. In your response, you stated one "live" phytoplankton brand has good quality control to remove phosphates and nitrates, is this DTs phytoplankton? <> DTs was the brand I was using with no elevation in phosphates. The brand which caused my phosphates to become elevated was Instant Algae manufactured by Reed Mariculture in California. Please let me know what you think. <> Thanks again for your insight. Joe << Blundell >>

Ogo and quarantine 03/07/06 Hi, <Aloha> I ordered some Ogo from Indigo <Hee! Will send to Gerald, Heslinga... Indo-> Pacific Sea Farms about a week ago. It is currently in a 15 gallon qt tank. It is under 96 watts of PC light, and it is being tumbled around by a powerhead which might be too powerful. Salinity is 1.025, temp is 80 degrees, PH 8.3, no ammonia nitrite or nitrate, calcium 400, and the water is RO/DI. My problem is I don't know if it is doing all that well. The plants <Algae> are still red, but the tips might be turning slightly white. <Not atypical> Is this from two much light? <Likely "just" shipping, stress> I would hate to lose the Ogo before I had a chance to use it, so is it safe to add some to the tank for food for my tangs, <Yes> or should I wait the two week quarantine period. <Are you concerned re Aiptasia, or? I would search through it, feed a bit off, move some to other quarters for culture (if you have them)...> I contacted IPSF and they said quarantine was not necessary, but I am still a little leery about putting it in the tank. So do you think this okay, or should I wait? Thank you, Aron

New Print and eBook on Amazon

Marine Aquarium Algae Control

by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Please visit our Sponsors