Kole Tang, dips, hlth.  - 05/31/08
Hello Bob and crew,
<Don>
My 210 saltwater tank had Crypt so I did the 6 week fallow protocol.
That was 2 months ago. I have in there now a Foxface, Tomato clown and a couple damsels and no sign of Crypt for the last 2 months. I set up my 20 gallon long QT completely cycled and went and bought a Kole Tang since they seem pretty hardy from the WWM website. Well of course after I got it I read the FAQ the other day and got the end of the one where you said you
wouldn't QT the fish. I did give it a 5 minute FW dip as standard protocol cause I have read every article I possibly could and try to follow your own rules as you would do to best I can.
<Yes, agreed>
He hides in the PVC all the time in the bare bottom QT and I want to know if you would put the Kole in the main tank or now leave in quarantine for a couple weeks.
<I would summarily (re)dip/bath this fish and move it>
I have been fighting Crypt a couple times this year and have really been doing dips/quarantine and I just seem to not really get it to be successful. I bet I am one of the best to break down a 210 in an hour to get the fish. So I'm be very cautious and quarantine everything and now I'm lost once again. Thanks for your time and I hope you have/had a great time in Germany.
<Oh, did so>
Don V.
<No real harm in continuing the Ctenochaetus in quarantine... do continue so for peace of mind. Bob Fenner>

Kole Tang Question, Ctenochaetus acclimation, lack of quarantine   5/28/2008 Dear Crew, <Andy> I was reading up on Kole Tangs because I'm thinking of purchasing one for my 110g display and I noticed in the article written by Bob (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/koletang.htm) that he generally advises against quarantining this species and instead using an extended pH adjusted freshwater dip (how long is "extended"?). <Five or so minutes... w/ constant observation, "swirling" of water or the use of mechanical aeration (a "bubbler")> Has anything changed/is this still good advice? As always, thank you! Andy <Is still my opinion. This pc. was penned w/in this last year... maybe should have incept. dates... Cheers, Bob Fenner> Re: Kole Tang Question Thanks Bob. I agree that dates on the articles is a good idea--that would be very helpful. <Will endeavour to add going forward...> Would you add in methylene blue to the freshwater dip, or just pH adjusted freshwater? <I would add the Methylene Blue... I see you have a follow up question, input re... will answer there> Thanks again. I can't wait to get my hands on the new version of CMA--June 3. Andy <Ahh! Have heard Champion Lighting has it, will be showing this wknd. in Chicago at IMAC. BobF> Re: Kole Tang Question Bob, <Andy> Sorry for the double-post, but I thought of something that I meant to ask you. I asked whether you would add methylene blue to the pH adjusted freshwater, but my more basic question is "would you add anything to the pH adjusted water, e.g., methylene blue, formalin, etc.?" I have bottles of both methylene blue and Rid-Ich+ (malachite green and formalin). <Would be careful re the Malachite (only "regular" dose)... but yes to the formalin. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm and the linked files above. BobF> Re: Kole Tang Question Thank you very much. I have read the dip articles, but because this question was so specific to a particular animal I just wanted to be safe. I get really nervous adding any animal without a 4+ week quarantine. I'm sure you don't remember, but when I got back into the hobby about a year ago I was stupid and suffered, with your help, through ich and all the hassles that it brings, 6 weeks staring at an empty tank, fish dying, etc. At your suggestion, several month back I did add a Copper Band Butterfly that I had in QT for only 10 days because it showed signs of lymphocystis, and all worked out wonderfully--healthy eater (including a few aiptasia that I had on my LR), bright and happy. I'll stop bugging you now! Cheers, Andy <Always best to be cautious... rely on your own intuition, choosing ultimately... My "input" is borne generally of many personal and second hand experiences; including reading. In the case of Tangs of the genus Ctenochaetus, it has been my overwhelming experience that dips/baths are more efficacious than these AND/OR quarantine alone. RMF> Re: Kole Tang Question, Ctenochaetus acclimation, lack of quarantine Hey guys (again), <Tom> I read the below on the FAQ today. Why exactly does Bob recommend not QTing the Kole tang? <Probability, borne of experience, dictates that much more damage and loss is likely to occur from doing so than skipping... dip/bathing instead and placement> Reason being is, as I've talked about in other emails, that I'm planning on the purchase of an Atlantic Blue Tang. The last one died in QT, which was a 20g with a live rock and sponge filter, after a week. We previously discussed that, and came to the conclusion that the fish was sick prior to purchase, but I digress. The new tang, once purchased, will hopefully be 4 to 5 inches instead of the smaller one I purchased last time. I have hesitations about QTing this sized fish in a 20g, so naturally this email below caught my eye. What's the thoughts? Thanks again Thomas <This species of Acanthurus as well I would skip quarantining... A. coeruleus is not usually a strong "carrier" of external communicable parasitic disease... Bob Fenner>

Ctenochaetus binotatus,  Nets 1/17/08 I have wanted one of these fish for quite some time, and finally received one now almost a year ago. He has been living in a 72 bowfront quite happily. I would like to catch him however and move him to my 220 cube. I have been reading that it is very dangerous to use nets with these guys for fear of damaging their specialized mouthparts. Do you have any recommendations on something different to use that I wont have to worry about hurting him? I have attached a picture of this beautiful fish for your enjoyment. <Crystal, I'd use an Ulti Net, available at Foster And Smith. They are made of very soft material and should suit your needs just fine. See here. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3728+3861&pcatid=3861> Thank you, <You're welcome and thank you for the photo. James (Salty Dog)> Crystal http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o172/cl2ysta1/blueeye002.jpg

Distressed Tomini Tang... yes, exposure to Malachite, Formalin  12/7/07
I appreciate the time. I will try to keep as short as possible.
I've had a Tomini Tang that I got as a birthday gift 3 weeks ago. The first 2.5 weeks went great, he was eating up everything in site. In the last couple days, he has started to show some white spots on his fins and now on his body.
<... a pic?>
I gave him a Furan-2 bath plus QuICK Cure (LFS recommended) for about 2 hours
<! I hope not too concentrated... the "Cure" is toxic, very>
with water from the tank. I put him back in and after a few hours he is looking worse.
<Formalin burned little doubt>
I also did a water change just in case, but not sure what to do next. He is breathing fine, but his appetite is nowhere what it once was.
<Poisoned...>
I'm not sure if this is a parasite, Cryptocaryon or protozoan?
<Me neither... again, an image... Please try to put yourself in my/our place... this is a bad guessing game>
His mouth also is white (not sure what that could be from).
<Some specimens just are... others from rubbing in bags, tanks...>
There is no scratching at all, so can I cancel out ick?
<... how would I be able to tell?>
All other tank mates look fine.
<This is a good sign... Likely nothing contagious...>
Any help would be much appreciated!
Thanks,
Neil
<Careful observation... only at this point. Please show this note to whoever advised the hours long Malachite Green/formalin exposure... NOT TO DO! Bob Fenner>

Blue Eyed Surgeon - 10/22/2006
Hello, back to you again with some issues with my new blue eye tang (one month with me). Finally I'm seeing him eating Spirulina flakes but to this time no pellets, he take them but then spits them) and also goes crazy picking at New Life Spectrum H2O stabilized tablets are supposed to be good options for grazing herbivorous fish?) that I soak in Zoe, Zoecon and Garlic. So far I have not seeing him take pieces of the tablets but I do watch him graze at those tablets constantly.
<I'm sure he's getting some from them. Might be that he likes the Zoë and garlic.>
Also I roll green algae from my refugium inside sheets of dried seaweed and flake food with the above mentioned vitamins and tie it on a piece of live rock. Not only the tang graze at it but also the lawnmower blenny actually this is the only prepared food I see the blenny consuming).
<Its great for the lawnmower so that's good news.>
I was thinking that everything was ok until I started to notice some small lesions on one side of the blue eye tang. So far they only appeared at one side but I'm not sure if it's not HLLE developing in him or lesions that occurs when he goes between the live rock looking for food, some times at very tight places.
<Most likely that's it. Young tangs are klutzy in my experience and always try to go where they shouldn't or they are a bit spooky and run into things.>
How can I confirm if it is HLLE? If it is, what can I be doing wrong? I thought I was feeding it correctly in fact he doesn't look skinny and is very active. Please give me advice, this is a very interesting and nice fish.
<Sounds like you are doing great. I know lots of people don't like flake foods but I do find them good for supplementation purposes and there are some great frozen foods that are basically different types of Caulerpas that are good for him as well. And speaking of Caulerpa, that's an amazing food for them. Something I highly recommend, and most pet stores that understand salt water fish are carrying Caulerpas as well. A varied diet has got to be the best for all fish. Watch your fish closely for signs that the marks are what we both think they are and of course if they show signs of infection or growing we need to address that. Good luck, MacL>

Blue eyed surgeon  10/29/06
Thanks! Actually, the lesions are completely cured now, in less than a week the marks healed!
<Signs of a good healthy system. Congratulations.>
Also suddenly he started taking new life spectrum pellets (marine formula and Thera-a as well as bio-blend for herbivorous fish) with great interest and mega-marine algae (frozen food).
<I really like the Thera A pellets a lot and my fish pig out on them and the Boyd's pellets as well.>
My concern here is water quality because I am actually soaking all the food offered daily in Zoe, Zoecon and garlic on daily basis to the dry seaweed, and any dry food offered), is this required to keep the blue eye tang healthy or can this be done more sparingly, lets say one or twice a week?
<You can do it less often, and still have it fine. I would only add that many additives if you have an ongoing problem and then be prepared to do the water change that is going to come with the additives.>
Are these additives good?
<I've used them all, if you use too much garlic your house tends to pick up that garlicky smell.>
In another issue, are blood shrimps more sensitive to water quality or changes in water parameters than the regular skunk cleaner? I tried to introduce one this weekend, I acclimated it for an hour adding small quantities of my tanks water every 15 minutes and lost it in less than 12 hours (an expensive lost).
<They are very sensitive to water conditions in my experience. There are a variety of reasons you could have lost it varying from it being ill, it not eating before you got it, or it trying to molt the first night and not being able to do that successfully. You know, this goes against what people suggest but I usually recommend adding these guys early in the morning so that I can watch them throughout the day. I also usually don't recommend getting one that's just come into my local store. I want to see them acclimate at the store slowly and eat, preferably something like Mysis or pellets.>
I had only one previous shrimp (skunk cleaner) that was acclimated the same way and I had it for a little more than a year before it died when my chiller broke down and the water temp climbed to 90 deg.  
<Check your nitrate levels.  Also, I find it a good idea to know what my iodine levels are when I add a shrimp of some kind.  I personally do water changes the day before I add a creature to my tank just to make my tank as good as possible for my new addition.  Good luck, MacL>

Ctenochaetus flavicauda avail./use  - 8/9/2006
Hello there,
Congratulations (again) on your site and work.
Just a couple of questions as regards Ctenochaetus flavicauda:  I've rarely seen any info on this fish, not even in your website.
<Is now... thanks to your prompting: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ctenocha.htm>
Is it because it's not found in the trade?
<Mmm, yes... restricted to areas that aren't generally collected from: http://fishbase.sinica.edu.tw/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=59589&genusname=Ctenochaetus&speciesname=flavicauda
Chip Boyle is "about it" in Roratonga... the French-"protected" islands are too expensive...>
Is the collection forbidden? If not, do you if this particular fish has any specific particularities as regards the other members of the family ?
<None that I'm aware of... I would say all Ctenochaetus have similar husbandry>
I want a Ctenochaetus for the importance of its feeding habits in a reef tank and this one could be THE piece of jewelry for my 210G tank ( if impossible to get,  I'll have either a strigosus or a hawaiiensis).
Thanks in advance for the reply
Best,
João Monteiro
<Have never seen it offered in captivity. Chip fishes for only about three species... high dollar, deep water... Bob Fenner>

Re: Ctenochaetus flavicauda   8/10/06
Bob Fenner,
Thank you for your prompt reply.
This fish is a bit like the Chevron (and the humans, anyway): much prettier in its younger stages.
Bearing that in mind and that I wouldn't be able to find one here in Portugal, I may opt for the Kole.
Regards,
João
<C. strigosus should be much easier to find/secure. Much wider range and many more collectors/collecting companies about its distribution. Cheers/Salud, Bob Fenner>

Kole Tang Run in with Tunze….once an accident, twice a mistake, but more get a clue?   7/25/06
Hi there: <Hello>
My Kole Tang has been a super tough guy since I got him in December or so. Always big and fat and eating. But on day 2 for reasons unknown I had to free him from the overflow intake.  Hmmm... Then in January, he twice was stuck to the intake of a Tunze 6060 rotating on Sea-Swirls.<Poor guy> That was odd indeed.  Second time he was on it for a while, seriously tattooed on one side.
<Hmmm I probably would have done something creative to keep the fish from the intake and overflow the first time there was a problem. Perhaps the pumps are to strong or the fish weak for some unknown reason.>
Recovered from that though too.
<Lucky fish>I target fed to make sure he ate well and frequently, at least 3x a day. Starting maybe in March, I'd say every couple weeks I'd arrive home to see that the scales were missing in a splotch on one side, almost always on his left side.  In fact, I think always….that is the side he was stuck on that last time on the Tunze.
<I wish you were kidding but I have a feeling you’re not. Seriously you need to do something to keep that poor fish off the intake of that pump. 4 months every 2 weeks…. so the poor fish has been injured at least 8 times in the last 4 months, not including his original 3 injuries. How many times does it have to happen before you do something about it?>
Anyway, I'd always target feed and he'd always eat and it would always clear up within a couple of days.
<Very resilient. It’s great that you are taking such good care of him after he is injured but some prevention would go much further. One of these days the poor fish will not be so lucky.>
I'm thinking, tough guy.
<Perhaps initially but every time he gets hurt he is probably getting weaker, with a good chance of some permanent damage to that left side.>
Now I am not so sure. Tonight he is deep within the rockwork, not breathing hard, but hiding.  I can see that the scales are missing between his eyes right on his head, and a bit on the side of his mouth. Hard to tell much else as it's dark in there, even when the lights are blasting away!  Not a chance of getting a picture. Most worrisome is he didn't come out when he saw me or when I fed the tank and that is an absolute first.
<Indeed, not a good sign.>
That has me concerned in the morning he'll be gone.
<As you should be, there is a good chance he could be. I would try turning the lights off and doing a water change.>
When I say the scales are missing is I see white flesh. I figured wounds somehow against the rocks or maybe he picked a bad fight, though with whom given my stock I haven't a clue.  He should be the boss.
<Hard to say given you have not listed the tankmates. Less dominant fish will often pick on injured or weakened fish.>
Anyway, white flesh is apparent now on his head similar to in the past when always on his body.
<Perhaps this was his last run in with the power head intake. If not and he survives you need to do something with that Tunze intake>
Any ideas what this could be or what I could do???
<Sounds to me like he had yet another run in with the Tunze. If you can gently get him out of the tank, you could try putting him in another tank to recover….. a hospital tank where he is safe from the Tunze and other fish. Set it up similarly to a quarantine tank with hiding places. Keep the lights off and water quality good. If he survives PLEASE do the poor fish a favor and do something with that pump intake. Build a mesh basket around it or place a sponge over it. We do this all the time in seahorse tanks. It’s really not a big deal. It may not be esthetically pleasing and the sponge will need to be removed frequently to be cleaned, but at least the fish will be protected from further trauma. This may sound harsh, but needs to be said… once an accident, twice a mistake but really 3 and on up times is irresponsible to say the least. You really should have done something a long time ago. It is your responsibility to protect the creatures in your care from  harm as best you can.  Leslie.>

Re: Kole Tang Run in with Tunze….once an accident, twice a mistake, but more get a clue? (continued) 7/25/06
No, you have totally misunderstood.  I don't know how you misread that but sorry for my part.
<I apologize for the misunderstanding>
Anyway, the Tunzes are out.  I now have modified MaxiJet 1200s on the swirls, he's never had a problem with them.
<That’s good to hear>
These wounds are not the wounds he had when stuck in the pump, and began to appear months after those incidents, which have not recurred. This is not a pump issue. Something else is going on.
I have a pic now at www.ostrows.us/sickkoletang.jpg
I'm wondering if there is some parasite or bacterial disease that could do this?
<It’s possible but hard to say for sure. Those are good-sized white patches/wounds. It is really hard to tell from the photo if they are actually wounds with broken skin or white patches. In my experience white patches of bacterial and parasitic etiology are not usually that size when first noticed. There is usually some indication something is going on earlier, before the patches get to that size.> Tankmates: 2 green Chromis, 1 royal Gramma, 1 percula, 1 hepatus, 1 scribbled rabbit, 1 mandarin goby, 1 Flamehawk. He's the biggest except for the Rabbitfish.
<I am going to guess that perhaps he injured himself on the rock or was injured by the venomous spiny rays of the Rabbitfish. If he seems to be holding his own in your display tank and none of the other fish are bothering him I would leave him where he is and keep a close eye. In addition I would recommend a water change, maintaining stable and pristine water quality as well as the addition of a vitamin like Vita Chem to a healthy varied diet. I would also add some Bets Glucan to his food. You can get this at most health food stores. Beta-Glucan is a potent immunostimulant that provides important health benefits for fishes. Research indicates that it helps prevent infections and helps wounds heal more quickly; it is safe to use in conjunction with other treatments and has been proven to increase the effectiveness of antibiotics; is known to alleviate the effects of stress; and to help fish recover from exposure to toxins in the water (Bartelme, 2001) .
For more information on Beta Glucan for aquarium fish, please see the following article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/feature.htm
If he does not appear to be doing well in your display tank and the other fish are harassing him. I would remove him to a hospital tank and follow the above directions. If the wounds appear to be getting worse you may want to consider the addition of medication.
I hope this helps, Leslie>

Re: Kole Tang Run in with Tunze….once an accident, twice a mistake, but more get a clue? (continued) 7/29/06
Guess who is all healed ... again.
<Wow, that's amazing and great to hear.>
I'm half expecting that within 10-14 days he'll have whatever "it" is even worse, and that is going to be hard indeed to witness. I sure hope I'm wrong, <Me too.> but this has been on a steady schedule and progressive.
<Hopefully this is the end of it. As previously recommended do keep up with the water quality please do try the previous suggestions for Beta Glucan and Vita Chem. Best of luck to you and Mr. Kole, Leslie>

Kole Tang Run in with Tunze, once an accident, twice a mistake, but more get a clue? (continued 7-31-06)
I'm using Selcon regularly.
<That's great! Vita Chem has additional nutrients. It might be nice to rotate the 2 supplements. Rotating supplements is another way of varying the diet so your fish get a variety of nutrients.>
I have Beta Glucan around (are you Puffer Queen in another world?) which I have used in an anti-ich food recipe that works wonders for me.
<Nope, not the Puffer Queen in any world, more like the Seahorse Queen in this world. I do have Puffers though (not in the same system as my seahorses>
Maybe I'll try that.
<That should be fine as long as there are no medications in your anti-ich food recipe. Take care, Leslie>

Re: Kole Tang Run in with Tunze, once an accident, twice a mistake, but more get a clue? (continued 7-31-06)
Thanks.<Your welcome>
There are medications in the ich recipe. I'd just use Beta Glucan for this, though an antibiotic is going to be tempting if it happens again, given the seeming risk of infection with that size wound. Hopefully your ich recipe does not contain any antibiotics, since ich is a parasite and antibiotics will have absolutely no effect on it. The problem with the indiscriminate or inappropriate use and inadequate dosing of antibiotics and other medications is that this causes the organisms to build up resistance creating super strains of organisms. These resistant organisms do not respond to the traditional medications in the traditional doses thus making treatment difficult and limiting treatment options. I am sure you have heard the expression "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." There is a great couple of article about disease prevention in the marine aquarium please do have a look at this here....
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm
Take care and best of luck with your Tang, Leslie>

Bristle-Tooth Surgeon Fishes
Hello from sunny Fla!  I just recently saw a reference/link to a page you wrote on WWM about The "Bristle-Tooth" Surgeon Fishes.... I saw that you wrote that the Tomini is the most difficult to keep. What makes you say this?
<Just the current sense, sample size of specimens... I rate all the Ctenochaetus highly for survivability, adaptability to captive conditions in general>
I have one that I had sent from Utah about 4 months ago.. he is doing fabulous.. eats well.. and is a model citizen, except for a little occasional picking on my lawnmower blenny.
<Typical... these fishes, groups do some such interaction in the wild... eat the same foods...>
I think this is because they share an interest in algae, and algae based food. It's never violent.. just a few pushes, which the blenny just sits there, turns his head to the side, and takes it. Thank you so much, if you have time to respond to this, Carole.
<Thank you for your input. Bob Fenner> 

Ctenochaetus binotatus
Hi
<Hello>
I picked up a very small tang last weekend. He/she is about an inch, and bright yellow with a blue rim.
<An inch? Wow, small>
Astoundingly for one so small he looked in good shape, perky and feeding, and now he's in QT in a 20 long tank with some Sarcophyton frags. All is looking good, he's taking flake, nibbling on the algae in there, and no signs of disease. If anything happens the softies go out, salinity goes down fast.  Anyway, he's looking good. At first I assumed Acanthurus pyroferus, but now I'm thinking Ctenochaetus binotatus after looking on fishbase. My question is, how quick will he grow, and how big/old when he will start to change colour?
<Good questions (as I don't really know...)... but likely will be a good three inches a year from now, five in two years... in your good care... and not grow much beyond this. Bob Fenner>
After QT he's off to a 250 litre.
regards, Wayne 

Re: Starting again
Mike,
Took your advice and added some hermits etc. (no Kole yet ... mixed views in my LFS, some people say no, they are very aggressive with other tangs, other people say the opposite!). Pulled out loads of Caulerpa, tank looks good. Signs of it beginning to grow back but I'm cutting the food down to see if the tangs etc will have a go at the fronds as they start to emerge.
Thanks for the advice ... good stuff as ever.
Brian
<Brian, I am glad to hear that everything is starting to work out.  Kole tangs can be aggressive sometimes but, I have found that generally they are not.  Remember, there is more than one way to keep a reef tank and that there are many different opinions out there.  Happy to hear all is getting better. MikeB>
 

Ulceration on Tang Hello, <Hi Jim, MacL here tonight with you> I've got a Kole Tang that has gotten very pale and has a Brown Spot on his head and near one of it's gills. Initially, I thought it was just stressed, but after 2 weeks of observation, I've noticed the spot getting larger, and beginning to turn red from it scraping on the rocks. <Its hard to tell from the picture but it looks like its either bumped it and created an ulcer or it has some type of parasite that is trying to come through.> Tests show that my water has a PH of 8.0, 0 Ammonia and Nitrites, and 5 ppm on Nitrates, and I keep the temperature at about 82 degrees. <I'd really like to see you get the nitrates to zero.> It is eating well, but I would like to quarantine and medicate to address the problem, only I have no idea what it could be. <If you can find some medicated food that might be your best option since we know it is eating.  Thinking that it might be a parasite your best bet for the hospital tank might be to use copper, as much as I hate using it. You'll also need to use an antibiotic either in the meds as previously discussed or in the water.  I know some people who have been very successful using MelaFix although I cannot say that I have personally used it.> I've attached a photo to show you.  Please help if you can.  Thanks. <Jim, your fish is really way to light so obviously way stressed out. I think you need to do something pretty fast on this. Please let me know which way you decide to go. MacL> Jim

Kole Tang!
Hi MacL, <Hi Jim, sorry about the delay, I've been dealing with soccer ARGH lol>
I took your advice with the quarantine tank. <They really do come in handily.> It didn't take 10 minutes after I put the Kole Tang in and it's brown color came back. <GREAT! That's a very good sign.> The only thing that I think affected it's color was poor water conditions in my primary tank. <Truly that's usually the reason.> I was going to let my weekly tests dictate when to change my water. <Either that or set up a more frequent change schedule.> The tank has been cycled for two months, and I really haven't changed the water. <Eeek, really just a series of partial water changes is all that's necessary. Perhaps 20% every couple of weeks is best.>  I've read your articles about water changes, only to find that my practice wasn't a good one. <No worries, you are learning still. We all had to learn.> Anyway, when I changed my water, it was very
yellow, and I noticed the surface of the tank having a haze to it. <That's generally a sign of ammonia or an algae bloom.>  I moved some powerheads close to the surface so that it would cause a good amount of waves, but that hasn't cleared things up. <Your water changes will I'm guessing that it may be related to protein issues. <Very possible but remember that water changes will take a lot of that out of the tank.>  I had a Skilter 250 protein skimmer, but even with the recommended modifications, it doesn't clear up anything. <Anything that stirs water is good but I think you will find other skimmers make a huge difference.> After reading some more articles on your site, I ordered an AquaC Remora skimmer. <Lovely choice, there are many good ones out there.>
However, I will need a biological filter since I have a fish only tank. <The live rock serves as your biological filter if you have any live rock in the tank.????>
Will the Skilter's biological abilities be enough for my 46g bow front?  I have a Millennium 2000 that I'm using for my freshwater tank, but I can easily swap if you think that's a better approach.  I'm really trying to only have "hang-on" filters.  Anyway, please provide any information on anything I've listed, so I know if I'm heading in the right direction.  <You are right on in your thinking. If you add the live rock it takes care of the biological aspect of this. Its really about the "type" of tank you want to have.  You should be proud of yourself, you are really learning quickly and what you learn are helping others.>
Thanks for the help!!! <Good luck and let me know how it goes!>
Learning the Hard Way <The way nonetheless. RMF>

Feeding a Kole tang
Dear WWM crew, Adam & MacL!
<< Blundell here. >>
Thanks for your help. My hair algae is receding, thanks to the Kole tang. 
<< Wonderful fish. >>
He is fat and healthy looking. I QT'd him for 2 days and then impatiently introduced him in to the display out of frustration while dealing with the hair algae issue. It's almost 4 weeks and I seem to have lucked out.  Unfortunately, I fear that the tang may succumb to HLLE! He has shown no interest in Nori or Mysis or pacific plankton or pygmy angel formula or marine angel formula that I feed the clown and the fridmani Pseudochromis. << Wow, try live brine or Cyclop-eeze. Very rare for fish to turn them down. >>
All he eats is hair algae! Any suggestions? I'm going to try soaking the Nori in garlic. << I don't think the garlic will help. Also, if he is fat and happy, I wouldn't worry too much. >>
He is still frightened of me. although after a few minutes he will come out and go about his business. He seems to be more observant of new things.  It takes him longer to come out if there are two people or if I move a chair to a different spot and sit in it, turn on lights that are not usually turned on etc. ???? << Typical. >>
Thanks, Narayan
<< Blundell >>

Feeding a Kole tang continued
Thanks Adam. But regarding your statement that if the tang is fat and happy then leave him alone, I'm just concerned that he is not getting a varied diet... << Yes that is a concern.  But when most fish get malnutrition their behavior changes.  They become lethargic and irritable.  A varied diet is best, but I still wouldn't worry. >>
Narayan
<<  Blundell  >>

Kole Yellow Eye, feeding stones
I read your article on wetwebmedia.com and I was particularly interested in the section on feeding. I have a yellow eye that caught ich but I was able to treat him in a quarantine tank for a few weeks. He has been back in my main 75 gallon reef tank for three weeks but seems to be on the skinny side and very pale. I was interested in the sentence that you stated "My favorite "gimmick" with these fishes is to utilize an algal covered "feeding stone" as a site for engendering food-taking behavior".
What exactly is a feeding stone and where might I get one? If you have any other advice on getting him enough food would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Cauley
<"Feeding stones" are actually made by the aquarist... either in an aquarium (sans algae eaters) or in other containers (like large jars near a window), but you won't want to wait to make these. Do look into buying some palatable macro-algae... either from an online vendor like Inland Aquatics or Indo-Pacific Sea Farms, or perhaps a local retailer or hobby-club member. Bob Fenner>

Questions - Yellow-eye Tangs (5/15/2004)
We've recently started a 50 gallon saltwater aquarium and have a variety of marine life living quite happily-We just lost 2 yellow-eyed tangs, <Sorry to hear it. I assume you mean the tang Ctenochaetus strigosus. More than 1 in a 50 gallon aquarium would overcrowding them> the third is doing fine, we have a butterfly fish, <What species? Most butterfly fish have very specific diets and can be hard to feed in captivity> a crab, a starfish, a cleaner shrimp and a bunch of snails and little hermits. 
We have a never-ending battle with red, stringy algae growing all over everything. <Most likely Cyanobacteria, technically not an algae> The ammonia, nitrite, and ph are all good (according to our
supplier and to our own tests) but we don't know what happened with the tangs or why we have the algae. <What are your nitrates\phosphates? What do you mean by an "Ok" reading? Numbers would be helpful :) Cyanobacteria is often caused by excessive dissolved organics, nitrates, and phosphates. Try doing weekly or bi-weekly partial water changes with a water source that is known to be free of phosphates and nitrates. Use a chemical media such as Seachem's SeaGel or Poly-Bio-Marine's PolyFilter to remove any excess DOCs, as well as phosphates and nitrates. Do you have a protein skimmer? If not, I highly recommend you obtain one. Definitely do a search of our FAQs regarding Cyanobacteria removal)
If you have any recommendations, we'd love to hear them. <I wouldn't add any more fish to your aquarium, as your tang will reach 6-8 inches by itself. M. Maddox> 

Kole Tang Recovery (3/6/04)
Hi Everyone, <Steve Allen tonight.>
  I have written you in the past regarding my Kole Tang and his battle with ich.  I treated him with Cupramine for the last fourteen days in a QT.  His problem now is that he looks terrible.  His skin is blotchy and he is really pale.  The good news is that he has ended his hunger strike. <Always encouraging.> I am feeding him foods soaked in Selcon.  <Good.> Will this help him look normal again or can I treat him with anything (antibiotic)?  Thanks. <Sorry for the delay. One of the crew is out and I'm helping clear his inbox. I suspect your Tang is suffering from the rigors and stress of his illness and treatment rather than a bacterial infection. It is wise to enrich his diet. I'd add a quality vitamin too. Also make sure he gets a lot of vegetable matter. Sea Veggies on a clip would be great and can even be obtained at Petco these days. Even better would be fresh Gracilaria if you can get it somewhere. It might even be worth ordering some of this "Tang Heaven" at www.ipsf.com  As for antibiotics, I would defer unless he appears to have a bacterial infection. Pristine water conditions will help immensely.>

Kole Without Appetite?
Hi Everyone,
<Hey there! Scott F. with you today!>
I bought a Kole Tang about a week and a half ago.  I brought him home and he began to eat.  A couple of days later, he developed ich.  I treated him with Cupramine in a QT.  Since then, he won't eat.  
<Not uncommon with tangs. They don't always do well with it. I've experienced this myself many times. Be very careful when treating with copper, as these fish have delicate digestive fauna, which can be damaged by prolonged exposure to copper. This will often diminish their appetite, among other things. I'd follow the manufacturer's instructions to the letter, and monitor the copper level continuously during the process. If the fish shows serious distress, do discontinue copper use. Often, once the copper level is lowered, the tang will begin to feed again. In the future, Formalin-based treatments might be a better route if you keep tangs.>
I have tried everything, from frozen brine shrimp to flakes to Formula Two frozen to Nori on a clip.  Is this a result of the copper?  What else should I offer him?  Thanks.   
<Well, besides lowering the copper concentration at some point, you could try a piece of fresh live rock for him to "graze" on. Sometimes, this can tempt an otherwise fussy fish to eat. Also, consider the use of a liquid vitamin supplement, such as Vita Chem, administered right into the water Observe the fish carefully. Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Yellow eyed-tang
Hey guys,
I recently bought a yellow-eye and he seems to have splotches on him and he looks like he is bouncing on the top of the water.... have you seen this before ?
<Yes. Sometimes just resultant stress from shipping, handling... but can be indication of other (environmental, parasitic...) disease. Please read through www.WetWebMedia.com re the genus Ctenochaetus tangs, Tang Disease... and where you lead yourself through the linked files (at top, in blue). Bob Fenner>
Paul Rawlings

Re: Yellow eyed-tang
FW dip ? I have heard of this.... Freshwater and de-chlorinate it ???
<Time to send you back... to www.WetWebMedia.com, please use the search tool (bottom left) on the homepage, with your terms "freshwater dip". Bob Fenner>
Paul Rawlings

The Kole That Won't Keep His Mouth Shut!
Good day Wet Web Crew:)
<Scott F. at your service today!>
I was wondering why my Kole tang always has his mouth opened but he shuts it when he grazes on the algae. He's a pig, eating algae on my live rock. Does the open mouth while he's swimming mean anything?
<Well, I was looking at my Kole just now- and he tends to keep his mouth open, or at least, opening an closing- most of the time, and he's very healthy...Unless you detect an injury, and the fish is not feeding, I'd have to say that this is a more-or-less normal trait of these endearing fishes!>
I've enclosed a picture of him. Truly one of the prettiest fish ever brought to the fish tank.
<Agreed! I love 'em myself! Just learn to recognize a fish with a damaged mouth, and you'll be assured that you're on the right track here...See the "Ctenochaetus Tangs" section on WWM for some pics...Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Tang vs. Angel
Hi guys,
<Hi David, PF here tonight>
Quick Question...(I think)
<It's the quick ones that turn into War and Peace... ; ) >
I have a 800 litre tank with the following fish:
Yellow Tang
Bristle Tooth Tang
Coral Beauty
Clown
Damsel
Emperor Angel
The Emperor is the latest addition and has only been in my system for two days, the Tangs are giving him a hard time particularly the bristle tooth. The Bristle tooth is a real menace and I have taken many fish back to my LFS because of him.
I have about 60 kg.s of live rock in the system and if anything I thought the Emperor would put the Tang in his place. Emperor is about 18cm.
This morning I noticed a small hole in the side of the Emperor, funny enough just the size of a Tang scalpel.
The question is do I rush home and remove the offending tang and in the process rip half of my tank apart or will they sort themselves out.
Thanks in advance.
David
Cape Town
South Africa.
<Well David, I think the answer boils down to whether or not you want to keep the tang or the angel, one of them needs to go. You can let them sort it out, but the tang to me sounds like a trouble maker. It could also be the presence of two tangs that is causing the aggression, tangs generally don't get along with other tangs.
Have a good evening, PF>

Feeding a Finicky Kole
Hi guys how are you?
<Doin' Great! Scott F. with you today!>
Question for you , What are some recipes for the creation of  good fish food. I have a Kole tang that is loosing weight and getting bone thin. What can I do to bring him back to a healthy weight. He is in a 72 gallon reef tank with about 70 pounds of rock he grazes all day but there is insufficient algae for him.
<Well, one of the easiest things you could do for him would be to purchase or "cultivate" some "feeding rocks" with have lots of microalgae on them, and rotate them into his tank a couple of times a week to supplement his regular feeding.>
Another concern I have is he attracts ich easily I battled ich by taking all the fish out of the tank and setting them in a hospital tank for a month, they had all lost the parasites after a couple of treatments of copper. Reading a article you have on ich I decided to break down the 72 gallon tank and give it a cleaning, using about half of the existing water I also removed half of the aragonite sand bed permanently and the other half  was washed and returned to the tank. The only other thing I noticed is my other fish are not effected by the parasites no visible white dots or white spots on their fins. Could you please tell me another way of possibly treating my main tank and bringing my tang back to health.
<Well, the "easiest" way (I guess "easiest" is a relative term here!) is to let the tank run fallow, without fishes, for about a month, to allow time for the parasite population to crash for lack of hosts (fish). This method is quite effective at reducing or eliminating the parasites from your tank>
I have heard Nori is good but I can't find it anywhere and I have tried to feed them romaine lettuce but he doesn't even touch it.
<I wouldn't waste your time with lettuce. It really has very little nutritional value and can potentially leach lots of nitrates into the water...Nori is available at most Asian markets; it's used, among other things, for sushi. Another good food for tangs in general is the macroalgae Gracilaria parvispora. Called "Ogo" in the Islands- it's probably THE food for most herbivorous tangs...You could get it from places like Indo-Pacific Sea Farms in Kona, or Mary Middlebrook's site in CA. One caveat, however- the Kole is the most "detritivorous" type of tang- versus the more herbivorous Zebrasoma species. As such, it does rasp algae and diatoms from rocks and substrate, but it will also derive a substantial portion of its diet from typical prepared fare, such as Mysis, "Formula" foods, etc. It may try the Gracilaria, but usually will take prepared foods over the macroalgae...>
I feed them blood worms Flake food with Spirulina angel formula also dried pellet food but they don't seem to like it anymore.
Thank you Stan N. Edmonton Ab Canada
<Stan, do try the frozen foods mentioned above...they are an excellent dietary supplement! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>

- Kole Tang Changing Colors -
Hi there how are you? <I am well, thanks for asking.> I have a question or two for you. I purchased a Kole tang about a week ago at a local pet shop it looked healthy it was continually eating algae off the live rock in the tank and with further inspection I took him home. After a day or so it started to eat I tried a variety of foods including dried see weed, brine shrimp, blood worms and a frozen seaweed variety angel formula. <As an FYI - Angel Formula is actually a sponge based food for larger angels... not so much sea weed in there.> After about four days I noticed some blotches on his sides I have had many battles with marine ich before and I know this isn't it. <Could be for a variety of reasons, but I suspect your problems with Ich would be due to the fact that you didn't quarantine your fish before placing them in the system. Please read up on this here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm >
These blemishes seem to be below the surface mostly seen under bright light, these blotches have spread to the head area as well they don't fall off and they don't look fuzzy like fungus. <These fish can change their colors depending on mood, time of day, etc... most likely it is under stress from the move to your system and is just feeling out of sorts. It will take a couple of weeks to a month for this fish to feel at home.> The tang is still very active but is a finicky eater it seems to be feeding off the rock and some areas of the glass where algae has started to form. I am wondering if It is Stress that is causing this any suggestions. <Yes... stress - give it time, be patient.> He is housed in a 72 gallon tank with a Lemonpeel angel, a blue devil damsel, two common clowns about an inch long, a purple Pseudochromis small as well, and a very small tomato clown. It seemed to quarrel with the blue devil damsel for a while but now it seems ok. All other fish in the tank are feeding and have a clean bill of health. If you have any suggestions please E mail me back.
Thank you
Stan N.  
<Cheers, J -- >

Kole On The Decline?
I just purchased a Kole Tang one week ago, and everything was fine except that she wouldn't eat the sea weed either from the veggie clip or when floating around the tank. The Kole Tang was eating Spirulina flakes with vigor just a few days ago. Yesterday, I noticed that she had some light blotches on her forehead and stayed completely hidden (under a large rock) and didn't come out for food at all.
<Hmm, not a great sign, huh?>
Her mouth was open and looked fine although I'm not sure if it was swollen.
< Do confirm this with careful observation. Sometimes, Ctenochaetus tangs do occasionally suffer from "collection traumas" and other injuries to their mouths, and these visible problems should disqualify a specimen from selection for your tank. When the mouthparts of these fishes are damaged, they rarely recover. Not trying to paint a "gloom and doom" scenario here, but, based on your description, there is a possibility that the fish may be damaged in this manner..>
This morning, I used a flashlight to examine her in her little cavern and it looked like maybe the white blotches might be HLLE. Since I have not seen any pictures of this on the internet I cannot diagnose properly.
<Well, HLLE symptoms usually include a "pitted" appearance to the head of the fish. White blotches sound more like a fungus or a bacterial malady of some sort. It sounds to me like this fish needs to be moved to a "hospital tank" for observation and/or treatment. Do read up on the wetwebmedia.com FAQs on disease to confirm what it is you may be dealing with. With quick, decisive intervention, you may be able to save this fish (assuming that the mouth is not damaged, as discussed above).>
Is it time to heat up the frying pan or can I still save my Kole?
Tank specs.
Tank:100GAL
Sump: 40GAL (approx 17GAL full)
PH: 8.3
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
ALK:  Normal
Temp: 80.5
SG: 1.024 (using the plastic Coralife Hydrometer with the arm)
I do not have a grounding probe and the other fish in my tank are a blue damsel and a three stripe damsel. The tank is three months old and has approximately 30lbs of live rock in it. Thanks, Peter
<Well, Peter, it sounds like your tank conditions are okay...I get the feeling that you're not dealing with HLLE here for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the very rapid onset of the symptoms. In the future, please "play it safe" and quarantine all new arrivals for a minimum of 3 weeks before releasing them into your main system. Tangs, in particular, are notorious for contracting diseases during collection, shipping, and acclimating, and quarantine gives you the opportunity to observe, "harden", and treat the fishes if necessary without incurring the added stress (for both you and the fish) of removing it from the main tank, or spreading disease to your other fishes. Take quick action with this fish...Good luck! Let us know if we can be of further assistance. Regards, Scott F>

Kole On The Decline? (Pt. 2)
Thanks for your response, I examined the Kole Tang again most of the night and she seems really slow and unresponsive. Not like when she was purchased. At this point it looks like her mouth rarely closes if at all. She did come out to eat, although not with the same vigor as last week.
<The fact that this fish is eating is a good sign!>
Do you know of any successful treatment if this is mouth trauma?
<Well, if the mouth is damaged, it's unlikely that a medication could help. However, if the fish is "gaping" due to a bacterial infection, then a medication could perhaps work. Impossible for me to diagnose here, so you'll have to really take a look at this fish and review the disease FAQs on the wetwebmedia.com to try to verify exactly what you're dealing with. Try to verify if the mouth is actually "injured", versus swollen.>
Some type of antibiotic, or, medication to help her through this?
<Well, I'd go for a broad-spectrum antibiotic, such as Maracyn 2. The administration of the medication should really take place in a separate aquarium. At the very least, freshwater dips may help if you're hesitant to try a medication. This is a more manageable, but possibly less effective treatment, if a "hospital" tank is not available.>  
At this point I do not have a quarantine tank set up. But after this experience I will in the future. Peter
<Certainly a great idea! You'll definitely reap the rewards of this practice down the line! Good luck! regards, Scott F.>

How often to feed Kole Tang?
Hi.  
<Hello!>
I have a 55 gal. reef with 50 lbs. of live rock.  The rock has quite a bit of hair and bubble algae.  I just bought a Kole Tang.  I know he will eat he hair and may help a little with the bubble.
<Maybe. Fish don't read books very often so they don't always respond to things the way we think they will/should but alas...time will tell. I hope that you're right>
My question is, how often should I supplement his diet with Formula Two if I expect him to successfully graze?  
<I suggest that you consider growing some Gracilaria in the tank (if possible) and feed this guy with the Formula 2 a couple to three times a week. You might consider adding Selcon or any vitamin supplement that contains a stabilized form of vitamin-C to his rations. You can also feed Nori from the Asian section of your supermarket. Try to get the dried kind instead of baked. If he really does chow down on the bubble and hair algae I would feed even less until the nuisance stuff is gone>
I don't want him to get lazy.  My guess is every other day, but I need a "gut check."
<You're on the right track!>
Note - I also have two clowns and a watchman goby that I feed once a day with a variety of frozen foods (Formula B, prawns, clams squid.).  I expect the Kole will eat that as well.
<Guaranteed! They need protein as well>
Thank you, Rob Fox
<No problem! David Dowless>

Disease ID on Kole Tang
<Cheers, Richard>
Hello Bob, I have been having some type of disease problem with every Kole tang that I have brought into my store. I have attached some pics of an affected fish in hopes that you can help me identify the disease. It usually starts as a brownish or pale colored patch on their side and eventually spreads around the head area. So far the disease has never spread to any other fish
in the tanks. Your help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, Richard
<the species specific nature of the pathogen is not a surprise... we have seen this with butterflies and dwarf angels just the same. It is not exactly clear from the images what the primary cause is, but I see a hint and suspect the fishes die with full blown hemmorhagic septicemia (you see bloody ruptures under the skin or even open lesions?). If not, then we make look towards complications from Brooklynella which is all to common in Hawaiian imports. I assume that this is a central system. My advice would be to stop putting tanks in this system for 2-4 weeks minimum and ozonate it (or ozonate it better). At the same time, import  just a few more to place into an off-system QT tank to see if the problem is the shipper or a bug in your tank/system. Treat the new import in QT with daily formalin (use Aquarium Products Formalin or "Quick Cure [malachite with formalin]) daily for 5 to 7 days consecutively. A small daily water change for that first week from the bottom would be nice too. Stable temp in qt (2 heaters, 78-80F... no higher). And observation for a total of 2-4 weeks. This will indicate to us where it is coming from and how we can treat it. I strongly recommend properly dosed ozone in commercial systems... there are so many benefits beyond disease control. And UV is almost useless on central systems (too high flow, too high organics and particulates, etc... just useless for most). Ozone with effluent passed over carbon is fool proof. A redox controller running it will be a tremendous investment in the quality and health of your fishes. Best regards, Anthony>

Kole Tang
I recently purchased a Kole Tang (1 week ago), and it's swimming up and down repeatedly in the same area. It appears to be "afraid" to eat, and will come out rarely with the exception of the above described swimming pattern. 
<<I get the sense that you did not quarantine this fish. One of the best reasons to do this is to help the fish get used to the idea of captive living and your feeding schedule, away from other fish.>>
Is there anything that I can do for the fish? What is causing this behavior? <<Stress, most likely although most tangs are constant swimmers... they really like to cover a lot of ground. If it appears that the fish is doing this in response to its reflection in the glass [which isn't uncommon] then you might try leaving the tank lights off for a couple of days to help the tang get used to that other tang that keeps swimming back and forth with it.>>
Will it die? 
<<Uhh... that is kind of open-ended... if it doesn't eat, yes.>>
Please Help!!
<<Be patient, consider a quarantine tank for this fish to have some quiet time to itself.>>
Sonya
<<Cheers, J -- >>

Kole Tang Eating habits and LR Cycling
Hello there,
I have a funny question...being a guy (last time I checked) I like to laugh at things gaseous, smelly and loud...so in a related topic, I noticed that my Kole Tang eats my other fishes' poop (yellow tang, 4 damsels - all provide the Kole with freebies). Now, one of my dogs has been doing this for years, with no obvious health consequences other than bad teeth and horrendous dog breath, but I was wondering if this is unhealthy for a fish. <<Interesting question... for your dog, this is only a throw-back to the wolf gene all dogs carry. Wolves often bring food home to the den only to offer it back to the pups in a semi-digested form. Fish on the other hand... who knows. This is an observed and documented behavior in several species of fish, and is really quite normal.>> 
Is this behavior normal for a Kole Tang.
 <<Not sure about the Kole tank in particular, but I'm not surprised.>>
 I alternate feedings of Formula 2 and Nori everyday with Mysis shrimp (when I feed the anemones and polyps), and I see it grazing on the algae covered rocks and glass. It constantly has a full stomach (of what... I hasten to guess). 
<<let's not go there... oops, too late.>>
 My other question concerns my LR. I put in my "pre-cured rock" after ammonia readings were <0.1 and three weeks of re-curing in a 40 and 20 gallon bin with skimmer and two power heads. It went into my established (for about 10 years) 55 gallon with fish. I worried that weekend, and feared that I put it in too quickly...I did not test for nitrites, foolishly. Today, in the late afternoon, I tested the ammonia, which came up as zero, or close to it from what I can tell off the color chart. It hasn't been a month, but is there a chance that the ammonia will spike up again or re-cycle? 
<<I don't think so, you are likely fine.>> 
I have an Aqua-C Urchin in a ten gallon sump, built-in overflow, bio-balls, Chemi-pure, and two sweeping power heads in the tank. Do you think that the tank was capable of taking care of the stress from adding 45lbs of rock at one time since it had already been through its cycling, many moons ago? <<Well, that and you did pre-cure the rock...>>
 All inhabitants are doing fine, with no casualties since January, except for my cinnamon clown who thought it was superman and leaped out last week...probably got disgusted at the sight of the Kole eating poop. <<perhaps.>>
Thanks, Randy M. Yniguez, MA
<<Cheers, J -- >>