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FAQs about Circulation Rates for Marine Systems
Related Articles: Circulation,
Inexpensive Wavemaker Impressions, by Steven Pro,
Plumbing Marine Systems, Holes &
Drilling,
Plumbing Return Manifolds, Aeration,
Water Flow, How Much is Enough,
Powerhead Impressions by Steven Pro,
Marine System Components, Refugiums,
Central Filtration, Flow-through
Live-holding Systems, Refugiums,
Business Set-Up, Related FAQs:
Marine Circulation 1, Marine
Circulation 2, Marine Circulation 3,
Marine Circulation 4, Marine
Circulation 5, Marine Circulation 6,
Marine Circulation 7, Marine
Circulation 8, Marine Circulation 9,
& FAQs on Circulation:
Rationale, Designs,
Pumps, Plumbing,
Troubleshooting/Repair, & Aeration, Pumps,
Plumbing, Make
Up Water Systems, Sumps, Refugiums, Gear
Selection for Circulation, Pump
Problems, Surge Devices, |
How Much?
Vigorous (rarely is there too
much... 10-20X+ isn't excessive for most settings),
chaotic/non-linear... Can come from internal and/or external pumping |
Re: How to kick start the new setup? 6/13/09
Thanks for all the insight.
<Welcome.>
Here is where I am confused now about the GPH. I am not thinking of
getting bigger holes drilled. I have read that to keep FOWLR and some
mixed corals the flow should be 10X - 15X and for SPS should be 20X -
30X.
<Fair estimates.>
That said, I only have 600GPH on my 150 gallon tank. I will also use a
pair Koralia PowerHeads (model 6) each one is rated 2200 GPH. If I do
this, can I say that my total GPH is 2200+2200+600 or somewhere
close? Or am I completely wrong in calculating the 10X and 20X flow
rate?
<Nope, you are on the right track here.>
I know a lot of people use AGA drilled tanks with 1 inch inlets and have
kept SPS corals with success.
<Oh yes, just be vigilant. With these bulkheads at full capacity the
smallest of obstructions (snails, algae, etc.) can lead to overflow
blockages and water on the floor. It can be done no problem, but that is
the issue.>
Thanks again for the help and time.
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Re: System Setup, Plumbing, Pumps 5/26/09
Thanks for your response.
<Welcome.>
I'm conflicted, though: we want 10-20 times turnover per hour, right?
<Yes.>
750 gph is more like 5 times per hour. Would you then recommend other
circulation, e.g. powerhead(s) within the tank and/or the construction
of a
whole new closed loop?
<Yep. Your overflow will only support so much, it is not really
desirable
in many cases to run all flow through the sump anyhow.>
Thanks!
Dan
<Welcome, Scott V.>
Re: Plumbing and RDP [Scott V] 4/20/2009
Thanks Scott!
<Welcome Jeremiah!>
Heh, either way I go, with the eheim 1262 sump return at about
700ish I'm looking somewhere around 3100gph, 41 times tank volume
per hr! Sick!
<Yep!>
Think that's enough...haha. Thanks again man!
<Me too!>
Biotopes and Water Circulation in Closed Systems 2/25/09
Dear Crew:
<Benjamin>
Confused here, as usual. No tank yet, just
trying to do my homework and plan as best I can.
High water
circulation seems to be touted as the ultimate goal for a closed system
reef aquarist yet there seems to be a sizable number of species that
thrive on slower flow rates.
<Yes and yes>
Please point me to the
articles, or perhaps explain in terms of actual functionality how these
seemingly contradictory facts play themselves out in an actual tank
setup.
<Don't know where you might find this information
specifically... on the Net... Better for you to spend some time in a
library:
http://wetwebmedia.com/litsrchart.htm>
Lets say, for
example, a biotope common to slow moving currents and a biotope with
fast current needs. I plan on a tank that turns over its volume 15 to 20
times per hour.
What biotopes would that suggest?
<? That you
investigate your possibilities... A particular area geographically?
Depth, topography, habitat, "key" species... Many places to start. Bob
Fenner>
Thank You,
Benjamin System water flow...
overall circ. and refugiums 2/22/09
Dear Crew:
<Ben>
It is my intention to create a high flow system
with sump and refugium.
Having read quite a few postings on DSB's,
sumps and refugiums I have gleaned what seems to be contradictory
advice. This may be due to my ignorance (as opposed to stupidity) of a
specific contextual frame I do not understand, ergo I write. I have
several questions please.
<Ok>
1) Are high flow rates recommended
to maximize biological processes, to make the creatures feel more at
home or both?
<Can be a combination of these ends... though it should
be mentioned that there is a need to define terms like "high", and that
there are
circumstances, processes, organisms that prefer "lower"
rates of flow>
If it is primarily the former then it would be of
little use to utilize a additional pump and plumbing circuit for the
sole purpose of water movement in the tank?
<Mmm, w/in relative
terms, settings, there are exceedingly few systems that are
over-circulated>
2) I intend to use a 6" DSB in the tank, sump and
refugium. The goal is de nitrification and the propagation and
maintenance of a healthy population of sand dwelling critters. Some
articles/comments have suggested refugiums should have a slow rate of
water flow while others suggest a fast rate.
<Depends on a few
factors... for the refugium sake itself... 5-10 times turnover is about
ideal... but there are often other uses that call for more turns>
Both slow and fast flow rates were suggested as optimal for de
nitrification!?
<Actually... flow rate in the water surrounding
substrates where denitrification occurs are of little influence>
Is
the fast rate just for the main tank and sump?
<Mainly, in most
cases, yes>
Should the flow rate to the refugium be slowed or not?
<Should be, yes>
Do you have a suggested rate or range of flow rates
for the refugium?
<Yes... 5-10 times vol./hr.>
Gross tank volumes
planned are 150 for the main tank, 50 for the sump and 50 for the
refugium. I have yet to calculate probable net water volume but a good
guess would be about 145 to 175 of actual water. I plan to turn that
over somewhere between 15 to 20 times per hour.
<Okay>
3) I have
read some advertisements/articles re: the New Marine Series Marineland
tanks and feel their proportions of dimensions offer several advantages.
<They do indeed. These are (surprisingly to many) well-thought out
units>
They rate their overflow boxes (2) at 700gph each which in
ideal circumstances would give me only 1500gph return capacity or about
8.5 turns of the tank per hour. Perhaps I should be thinking of a DIY
tank or have someone make one already drilled for my flow rate goals?
<This is the rule rather than exception unfortunately. I would
"supplement" the drilled options here... by either drilling more holes
or adding an over the back "closed loop circulation" system>
Except
for perhaps the feed to the refugium I would like to use 2" plumbing
throughout the system in conjunction with a very high GPH pump.
<Okay>
Thank You
Benjamin
<Welcome; thank you for sharing....
Do feel free to chat further... am going to place your query in ScottV's
in-folder for his resp. individually.
Bob Fenner>
<<Hi Ben, I do
believe these use the standard joke of a throughput size, 1" for the
overflow drains like most pre manufactured "reef ready" tanks...you will
in reality only see 300 gph per. As Bob stated, you will want to
add more one way or another...it does not sound like you actually have
the tank in hand yet, now is the time to get one with larger
throughputs! Either custom from the manufacturer or do consider drilling
it yourself. Most any manufacturer will drill your holes larger from the
factory for an up charge. If you are at all mechanically inclined or
have somebody you trust who is, drilling the glass yourself is very
easy/straightforward, really kind of fun and darn cheap! A few links for
you drilling:
http://reefercentral.com/Videos.html
why 1" overflow
throughputs stink:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm
I hope
this helps out, feel free to write back with any questions. ScottV>>
Re: Power Filters ATTN Minh, plus now fluorescent tubes, circ. for
cnidarians 1/14/09
Minh,
<Hello John.>
So now you are fairly familiar with my system and you had asked about my
fluorescent tubes. Well lets just suffice it to say that once before I
had a reef tank and decided to upgrade the lighting already. I purchased
a 260 watt PC fixture. It comes with the usual arrangement of 2 10K
Kelvin lamps and 2 Actinic lamps. Thinking of replacing the actinics
with 10K Kelvin lamps.
<Congratulations on the purchase.>
I know
this is not enough light for SPS or clams or many anemones but I would
like to keep some soft coral like the toadstool. Perhaps an LPS like a
frogspawn.
<Although some Acroporids may actually need higher
intensity illumination, Power Compacts may be sufficient for Montiporas
and LPS if creative aquascaping and coral placement is utilized.>
I
realize that keeping a shrimp with a frogspawn is dangerous so I would
not do it.
<Shrimps in the Lysmata family such as Scarlet Skunk
Cleaner Shrimp (L. amboinensis), Peppermint Shrimp (L. wurdemanni) and
Blood Red Fire Shrimp (L. debelius) are opportunistic scavengers and may
damage coral flesh when going after uneaten food in the coral's oral
disc. Likewise, hermit crabs in the Calcinus <sic> family or crabs in
the Mithrax <sic> family can also do similar damage. Coral Banded Shrimp
(Stenopus hispidus) and "Yellow" or "Dwarf" version (Stenopus
scutellatus) have less of a tendency to do so. Although all of these
species have been housed in many tanks with Euphyllia without issues,
keep in mind of the possibility of damage.>
Also to let you know I
purchased an Eheim 2026 and that should be here next week. So much for
FOWLR. Once you cross over into a reef tanks there is no going back I
guess!
<It is an excellent filter, I suspect you will be happy with
it.>
My only concern now is will 2 Koralia 1's provide enough
circulation for corals that may require I higher flow. I am sure they
are fine for most leathers, the mushroom, polyps, etc. I just have no
experience with Koralias.
< The Hydor Koralia is from the new
generation of low-cost propeller driven pumps that is quite different to
the powerheads and pumps you've used in the past. Instead of generating
a forceful jet of water flow, its large prop and shroud design allows
for a gentle wave pattern that is much more efficient at moving water
than a traditional impeller driven pump. The two Koralia 1's and the
flow from the Eheim 2026 should be sufficient for most of the corals you
intend to keep. Gorgonians are the exception as these requite more flow
but with creative aquascaping and placing the specimen closer to the
powerheads, you can work around the issue. For an excellent read on
efficient flow design in a reef tank, take a look at this article:
"Water Flow is More Important for Corals Than Light"
(http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/6/aafeature2).>
Thanks again
Minh. I have really enjoyed communicating with you.
John
<You're
welcome. Cheers, Minh Huynh.> Water Movement for Debris
-01/11/09
Hello Crew, Hope all is going well. I have read
that a strong enough filter in an aquarium will provide proper water
movement to keep the debris stirred up in the water column to be drawn
in to the filter. But just as a backup, if I used 2 powerheads to do
this how would I position them to get the max effect on the substrate?
And in a 75 gallon tank would one
powerhead be enough with a sand
bottom. Thanks for all your help. James
<For this I would suggest
something that's come to be called "blasting."
Every once in awhile
you take a powerhead (in your hand) and "blast" the rocks (and to a
lesser extent the surface of your sand bed). This will stir up debris
much more effectively. I have done this many times myself and think it
is a really good way to get debris into circulation. It will cloud up
your water for about a day or so, but it is a good method for "cleaning"
up the rock and everything.
Best,
Sara M.> Re:
Water Movement for Debris 01/13/09
Hello Sara and thanks for
the info. I have another question please on a similar topic. I have read
and been told that it is crucial that a filter on an aquarium circulate
the volume of water in the tank by at least 4 times per hour but
preferably more. If I added a powerhead or 2 does the gallons per hour
those put out count, or is the recommended ratings just apply to the
filters itself? Thanks again.
James
<This is going to be mostly a
matter of opinion. In the case of reef aquariums, IMO, yes, the
powerheads do "count" because they push water around the live rock,
which is a form of filtration. However, they might not "count" as much
because they're not pushing the water through a protein skimmer or any
"actual" filter. I'm sorry if this isn't very helpful of an answer, but
it's really a judgment call on your part. If your nutrients are high, or
if you otherwise think you need more filtration, then the powerheads
might help, but likely not as much as adding a protein skimmer or other
form of filtration.
Best,
Sara M.> Turnover rate
explained... note to fix link 12/26/08
Dear WetWebMedia:
<Hello.>
I successfully ran a 55 gal saltwater tank using an ancient
undergravel filter (many) years ago. I'm planning on setting up a new
180 gal tank (fish and hardy inverts) using the more modern external
sump / wet-dry system including some live rock.
<You will like this
setup much more.>
I just wanted to ask a basic question regarding
turnover rate. I've searched the site and found many listings regarding
proper turnover rate etc. If I'm planning on a "turnover rate" of 10X
per hour, this would be 1800 gph. My question is this: This value of
1800 gph, is this literally 1800 gallons of water pouring into and out
of the sump per hour?
<Not necessarily. You will want a minimum 10X
turnover inside the display (more depending on what you wish to keep),
not all need route through the sump. Depending on your sump size 1800
GPH may be tough to handle in regards to microbubbles in your return
line and noise. You can run something reasonable through the sump like
say 10X the sump volume per hour and then amend the flow inside the tank
with powerheads or a closed loop.>
I just want to make sure I
understand turnover correctly so I could size my equipment accurately.
If this is correct, I planned on using two 1.5" PVC overflow tubes to
feed the sump, would this be optimum?
<In all likelihood you will end
up with 700-800 gph or so through the sump, in which case two 1.5�
drains will be fine. For 1800 gph you will need dual 2�, adding a third
to achieve some redundancy in the overflow should a drain fail.>
Thank you in advance!
Marcus
P.S. On an unrelated note I tried to
open the "heater impressions" article on heater recommendations but the
link wouldn't open.
<For me neither.>
Would you have any
recommendations for a really good brand of heaters?
<My first choice
are the Jager heaters, tried and true.>
I want to use multiple
heaters and divide the wattage since this is safer than having one big
heater, I just wasn't sure of which brands / models were good.
<This
is a good idea!>
Thanks
<Welcome. Happy Boxing Day, Scott V.>
Water Movement 9/23/08
Hi Crew,
<Hello Sam.>
I have a
6 year old 10 gallon setup with live rock and sand, a penguin mini
filter, 65w PC's, Candycane corals and some fish (more than you would
approve).
<…You said it!>
I began having Cyano problems a few
months ago. It started, I think, by my not changing the bulbs in time.
<Or finally seeing the consequence of overstocking, as you say it.>
It has improved but it is still there. When I do a cleanup it now takes
a week till it is bad instead of overnight. I cut down feeding to once a
day and I keep the lights off 2 days a week every once and a while. I
have a small power head (rated 130gph) that faces the length of the
tank. Would it be a good or bad idea to place it in mid tank facing the
width.
<It may help, but there are likely other fueling factors here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bluegralgae.htm.>
It would probably hit
the glass and divide itself in both direction which would probably be a
lot more movement all around than what I have now. I know you guys think
it is never too much movement so I am not sure why I am asking.
<There can be too much, specifically of the laminar type:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm. Again, not likely the
culprit, other factors here. >
But I haven't emailed you for a while.
Thanks
Sam
<Welcome, Scott V.> Plumbing and Pump
9/22/08
Hi guys.
<Vince>
I have read so much that my
head is swimming with ideas.
I want to re-plumb my system from
scratch to make it appropriate for hard/soft corals and everything in
between. My DT is a 220 gallon (72" x 24" x 30") All-Glass aquarium
which is to say that the two glassed in boxes with the holes underneath
accommodate 1.5" ID and 1" ID piping. In other words, my absolute
maximum drain capability will be two 1.5" and two 1" drains. I have read
that 1.5" does 600 gph and the 1" does 300 gph, but I can't figure out
if these numbers are for one or two drains. (Does a single 1.5" drain do
600 gph or 1200 gph?)
<A single 1.5” is good for about 750 safely,
while 300 is correct for the 1”.>
The 1" ones are currently plumbed
for return lines, but I am willing to use them as drains and just have
my returns hanging over the back, which actually increases my return
line and wavemaking options (Can we say "8 way Ocean Motion"?). My sump
is a standard glass aquarium that already has a hole drilled with a 1"
ID bulkhead from which the main pump can draw water. I do NOT want to
drill a new hole to accommodate a larger pipe. I intend to keep
approximately 30 gallons (half full) in the sump.
So, for my intended
bio-load, I understand I ought to have 10 to 20 times my DT gallonage
turnover, which is to say 2,200 to 4,400 GPH flowing from DT to sump
back to DT.
<You will want 10-20 times turnover for total flow, it
does not all need to transit the sump. >
<Perfect.>
I also will
have two Koralia 4 water fans just to create circulation in the DT.
(The 2nd one has yet to arrive, so I have not had an opportunity to
experiment.) I have read one suggestion that if I put one at mid-height
in a back corner and the other one mid-height at the center of the back
wall and aim them both at the dead center of the tank, that the
turbulence created by these positions will simulate gentle wave action.
<You’ll just need to experiment with different placement of the
powerheads in relation to your sump return.>
So, here are my
questions:
1. What GPH do I need going into and out of the DT?
<I
would shoot for around 1000 gph or so on this tank. This will be a
manageable level through the sump and puts you around 3000 gph of flow
in the display with the powerheads.>
2. Are the two 1.5" drains
sufficient to accommodate that GPH?
<Yes, although using the 1”
drains also just provides that much more redundancy.>
3. Will the
positioning of the two Koralia's actually create a turbulence to
simulate wave action?
<With a little experimentation in placement it
definitely can. I would actually start with the two on opposite ends of
the tank, pointing at each other. Mix in your sump return flow and then
start tweaking it here and there until you are happy with the flow. A
bit of positioning info in this article
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm>
T.I.A.
Vince.
<Welcome, have fun setting up, Scott V.> Enough Flow From
Return Pump? – 09/10/08
Dear Crew,
<<Greetings Art>>
I
have a 65 gallon tank with a built in overflow rated at 600gph.
<<Mmm…I’m going to guess this is a single 1” drain…which means your
overflow rate is more like 300gph, in reality>>
Under the tank I have
a wet-dry filter with a submersible Via Aqua 2300 water pump returning
water to the main tank.
<<Hmm, with headloss this pump (rated 600gph
@ 0’) may work out here…though I would recommend installing a gate-valve
on the output side of the pump to temper flow if needed>>
Recently, I
considered installing a closed loop" system but haven't moved forward
with plans because of the inadequate flow from my return pump.
<<Indeed…although returning water from an “open” sump in no way entails
a “closed-loop.” I believe what you are considering is a simple “return
manifold”…and with flow requirements of 350gph+ for a single ½” nozzle
(to achieve some purposeful flow), you hardly have the pump or drain to
accommodate. Best to use some other means of increasing flow
(powerheads, etc.)…or install a “true” closed-loop (see here and among
the associated links: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbretfaq2.htm )>>
According to the manufacturer the return pump should be pumping 300gph
with a 4' head. When I tested the pump, my results indicated a flow rate
of only 120gph.
<<Not surprising…the pump you have is not “pressure
rated.” Most all the submersible magnetic pumps available will require
you to get something a bit larger than you think you need if you wish to
maximize the drain capacity of your system. And again…I urge you to
install a gate-valve on the output side of the pump to allow you to
adjust this flow as need to quiet things/prevent overflowing the tank
I removed the wet-dry tray containing floss filter material, and timed
how long it took to fill a 1 cup measuring cup from the return line. It
took approximately 2 seconds to fill the cup. When I did the math I came
up with, 16 cups (1 gallon) x 2 seconds = 32 seconds per gallon. I
rounded that off to 2 gallons per minute x 60 minutes = 120gph.
<<This is useful data, but utilizing a larger measuring device (i.e. -
gallon container) would likely yield a more accurate result. Although, a
few more gph either way is probably moot>>
I'm no expert obviously,
but it seems that this pump should be pumping much more water than it
is.
<<Some of the better pumps will…I do not consider this pump one
of these. But I can only make assumptions without much more information
re your plumbing configuration. For instance, every fitting between the
pump and the terminal end of the output will add about a foot of
head-height/head-loss to the pump. Reducing line diameter to anything
less than the diameter of the pump output will also reduce flow. Any/all
of these coupled with the height and/or horizontal length of the
plumbing line can greatly reduce flow rates. If you wish to increase
flow…you are going to need a bigger pump>>
My entire system,
including pump, is only about six months old.
<<Some small buildup of
bio-film in the plumbing lines is also contributing to a reduced flow
rate. I always recommend folks purchase/utilize pumps a bit larger than
needed…with a gate-valve installed to adjust flow as necessary when/as
the system ages>>
Anyway, I have two Hydor Koralia power heads in my
main tank each rated at 800gph.
<<Excellent>>
So, I have just over
1700gph of total flow. I am considering a new pump, and would appreciate
your opinion what I should do.
<<I think I have stated such>>
I
know I would need much more water flow from my return pump should I
decide to install a "closed loop" system.
<<See my previous comments
re… This would not be a true closed-loop…and you don’t have the drain
capacity to power a return manifold nor do I think you would be happy
with the noise/bubble issues if you did. If you wish to increase flow
without powerheads then do research the closed-loop further…and shoot
questions back to me re if you wish>>
Thanks in advance for your
help.
Art
<<Is my pleasure to assist. Eric Russell>>
Too much circulation? 8-13-08
Heya WWM Crew,
<Morning, Mike
here>
I was glad to hit the Donate button and send some "green" your
way...just sooo much good stuff on this site.
<Much appreciated, on
both counts. We try!>
I am setting up a 75 gal Marineland Cornerflo
tank. The overflow is rated at approx. 700gph through the 1" bulk head.
I am returning water via a Rio Hyper Flow pump rated for approx. 660gph.
at 4ft. I had to plumb a ball valve in the return line to tone down the
return. The overflow couldn't keep up without slurping frequently. In
the tank, I have two Koralia 3 powerheads rated at 850gph. They are in
opposite corners (one 8"-10" high, one 12"-14" high) pointing diagonally
towards front glass.
<lots of good water movement there...how about
splitting that return into two, or have you done that?>
1st Question:
Should I adjust the ball valve on the return so as to pump approx. 2 to
3 times tank volume (approx. 200gph to 300gph returned)? I have a 30 gal
sump with an in-sump skimmer. Or, should return of water be much
greater...in the area of 550 to 600gph?
<I'd crank it up, and split
the returns, or move through a wider opening for less laminar flow>
2nd Question: Are the Koralia's too powerful for my tank? The reason I
am concerned is that the turbulence is causing slight sand drifts as the
currents bounces of each other and the front glass...and I don't want to
"current" my future fish to death. Koralia also has smaller powerheads
rated for 400gph or 600gph...either of these better suited for my tank?
I definitely have great circulation now...just not sure if its
counterproductive.
<Go to a reef sometime, and THAT'S where you'll
see a "lot of flow"! Telling me what the tank is designed to house would
be nice, but I would say don't worry about it, this is a good thing and
it occurs in all of my aquariums. Remember, it's almost impossible to
have too much random, turbulent water flow for reef species!>
Thanks
a bunch,
<Anytime, thanks for your support>
Phil in Mississippi
<M. Maddox in Texas>
Nano reef & natural water movement, 8/4/08
Hello guys and gals!
<Hello>
I have a small 10G nano reef tank, close to 1000 G/Hr water
movement/circulation. The temperature is between 78-80 F without using
any chiller. It has been set up bout a year now. I have a very healthy
and good lookin' livestock. So here I come with the question of the
century:-) I was always wondering how many Gallons of water exchanges in
an hour in the natural seawater? Is there any estimate on this? I'd love
to know that!
<From diving I can tell you lots, even in relatively
calm areas you are still talking about a complete change of water every
few minutes at most, every minute or less in areas of stronger current.
This is why many people say you cannot have too much flow.>
The other
thing I was wondering about if you accept any kind of donation, or
anything like that. I'd love to appreciate all the efforts you guys put
in this website. It is like a library for me.
<I believe we have a
"begging box" on the front page.>
Thank you for your time and
answers, have a salty day!
Sonny
<Thanks for the note.>
<Chris>
Hydor Koralia Question 4/24/08
Hi Bob,
<Scott V. here with
you.>
I have looked through your site many times and it has been
quite helpful.
<Great!>
I have a FOWLR 72 gallon bowfront tank
with an Eheim 2026 filter and was looking to replace my powerheads with
Koralias. I currently have a couple of smaller clown fish in the tank
and would like to get as much water flow as possible. Would 2 Koralia
4’s at 1200 gph each be too much for the clowns?
<The clowns can
handle the flow, this will put your tank turnover past 30 times and
hour, fairly high for a FOWLR. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing,
but dual Koralia 3’s will be a better fit for this in my opinion.>
The only other additions to livestock I may make would be smaller reef
safe wrasses. I know these types of questions are beaten to death on
your site, but would really appreciate a response.
<No problem, we
respond to all.>
Thanks so much, Dustin
<Welcome, enjoy the tank,
Scott V.>
Low Flow? Algae!! 4/16/08
Hi Crew,
<Hey there Mark.>
I
have a 90 gallon soon to be reef tank (I hope). It has been set up
for about 6 months with a Tom's overflow box and a sump/reverse
cycle lighted (140watts daylight) 29 gallon refugium using a Hagen
70 powerhead as a pump. Using the macroalgae Chaetomorpha in
refugium only. Protein skimmer is a Tunze DOC 9005 and is in sump.
Lighting is a 175watt 10K metal halide. Water movement within the
display tank is provided by a Hydor 4 powerheads.
<It all sounds
nice!>
Only additive is Kalkwasser to replace evaporation.
Inhabitants include algae, copepods, and 3 turbo snails. Water
parameters include:
ammonia and nitrite=0
nitrate < 5ppm
phosphate < 0.5ppm
calcium = 360ppm
alkalinity = 9-10dKH
salinity = 1.025
pH = 8.4 morning and evening
Problem:
Derbesia and Cyanobacteria in the display tank but not the refugium.
Is it due to lack of flow?
<Hmm, no, you should have plenty of
flow. Perhaps look at you implementation of the flow, make sure it
is directed in a way to prevent any “dead spots”.>
I thought that
maybe because my pH is so steady (and it wasn't before I set up the
refugium) that the flow was OK.
<A refugium can sure work wonders
toward PH stabilization! Take a look at your make up water. Your
nitrate and phosphate are high for a tank with no fish or
substantial livestock at all, especially when you consider your use
of a macroalgae refugium. Unless you are adding something to the
tank (food, food additives) your water source is very likely the
problem.>
Thanks,
Mark
<Welcome, good luck, Scott V.>
Re: Low Flow? Algae!! 4/17/08
Thanks for the rapid response
Scott.
<You’re welcome my friend.>
I wasn't very clear about
my PO3 and NO3 levels in my last email. I meant to say they were 0
but only detectable to 0.5ppm and 5ppm respectively.
<Okay,
understood.>
That being said I am using tap water. The city's
water quality report states 0.0ppm NO3 with a test kit that can
detect down to 0.4ppm. However it does not test phosphate (though
phosphorus is 0.01). Of course the best PO3 and NO3 test kit of all
(algae) indicates I need to use RO water.
<Considering the
addition of no food to this tank, yes, an RO is a wise investment.
Regardless of the tap water quality, I am a proponent of RO use for
the sake of consistency if nothing else. Tap water will vary
throughout the year.>
I just wanted a second opinion as to
whether the Hagen was producing enough flow between my sump/refugium
and my display.
<I have had very successful systems with flow
this low through the sump, sometimes I get stingy on electricity and
do not want to pay to pump water up and down! More, 600-900 gph
after head pressure is accounted for, is desirable for a system this
size.>
Thanks again,
Mark
<Welcome, happy reefing, Scott
V.> |
Return Pump Flow--How Much Is Too Much? – 02/18/08
Greetings
WWM Crew,
<<Hello Bill>>
Here is my situation. I have an AGA
180-gallon RR tank with the 'MegaFlow' system--sort of.
<<Mmm…>>
The ¾-inch return is now 1-inch, and the drains are 1 ¼-inch instead
of 1-inch. The 'MegaFlows' have been replaced with Durso's.
<<I
see… I do hope this means you increased the size of the
holes/bulkheads in the tank…not just an upsizing of the pipe>>
I
drilled out the 'teeth' in the overflows and siliconed black plastic
gutter guard in its place. My tank has an Ocean-Motions 4 way
Closed-loop plumbed according to Paul's suggestion. This all drains
in to an 85-gallon 'fuge,
<<Sweet>>
and then to a 90-gallon
sump.
<<Really sweet>>
My skimmer is in the sump. The return I
was using was a Mag 1800, and up until last Tuesday it worked
fine--then BAMM.
<<Hate it when that happens… I have used these
and do think the Mag-Drive pumps usually serve pretty well, for the
money…but I made the “switch” to Ocean-Runner a while back and have
been very pleased with the result…and when/if you can get them big
enough, Eheim is even better>>
A friend of mine that owns/runs an
LFS said he had a 'new' (used for 5 minutes) pump he would sell me,
so OK, I'm good to go right. The pump is an Eco-Plus rated at
4950gph.
<<Yikes! Much too much flow for your overflows…or are we
talking “closed-loop” here?>>
New plumbing was done--ball valve
etc., etc., and I turned the pump on--(now don't get ahead of me, I
know what you are thinking--but the ball valve WAS turned to 1/2 to
start)
<<Mmm…okay…>>
Oh, I forgot--I installed a "Calfo
Manifold" around the top of the tank in 1 inch PVC in place of the
double returns already in use.
<<Very nice>>
I'm figuring my
flow at about 3800 to 4000 gph--just from the return.
<<Not with
“two 1 ¼-inch drain bulkheads” my friend (would only safely drain
about 1000gph en toto). I must assume this is a closed-loop>>
With the 1-inch return manifold--it has 12 outlets around the top—I
can turn the valve to 3/4 open with no problem. With ½-inch reducers
in the outlets, and with capped 45 degree pieces drilled with a
small hole attached, I can open the valve all the way, without
overflowing the tank.
<<Okay, this “must” be a true closed-loop
then…no way you would be running this much water through your
sump/through two 1 ¼-inch gravity drain lines>>
I also have 2
Koralia #4--1200gph each in the rear corners. My 'buddy' at the LFS
says it can never be enough flow. Is this too much flow ?????
Thanks in advance,
Bill Fletcher
<<Well Bill, that depends
much on your livestock’s requirements/placement and how this flow is
“arranged” in the tank. A common rule-of-thumb for marine systems is
to have a water-flow rate of at least ten-times the tank’s stated
volume. For your tank of course that would be 1800gph. I have heard
of some hobbyists with flow rates of 50-times and more their tank’s
volume. I believe “lots of flow” is very beneficial if applied
properly…my own tank boasts more than 30-times the tank volume in
water flow. I also believe the majority of hobbyists “don’t have
enough” flow in their tanks. So to answer your question…if the
animals in your system are not having their flesh blasted from
them…if the animals in your system exhibit health and vigor, and the
corals are not “closed-up” all the time as a result of the flow…then
no, this is not too much flow. Regards, Eric Russell>>
Re: Return Pump Flow--How Much Is Too Much? - 02/19/08
THANKS
for the reply Eric.
<<Happy to assist, Bill>>
To start, the
pump in question IS the tank return pump. On my OM 4 way, I have a
DART.
<<Ah, thank you for the clarification. I must say I think
either there is something I have missed, or the pump is encountering
a “bunch” of headloss as there is no way two 1¼” gravity drains
handling the flow volume you mention (4,000gph+)>>
Each return
has 6 one inch "T"s around the top of the tank, into which a 1" to
1/2 " reducer is placed, with a 45 degree PVC piece placed into
that, and then capped and drilled with a small, not real small, hole
drilled in the end.
<<So…the water is returned to the tank via
these small holes in the caps? Well, that would explain how the
drains can handle the flow with the valve from the pump wide-open
(the “holes” are GREATLY restricting water flow)>>
This allows me
to swivel the 45's left or right, and raise or lower the "T"s as
needed. The drain and return tank bulkheads were re-drilled to
accommodate the tubing upgrades.
<<Excellent…too bad you just
didn’t go a little larger on the drains [grin]>>
I did forget to
add/state that ALL plumbing is in the basement which is just behind
the wall that the tank sits in front of.
<<Cool…does make
plumbing/dealing with some associated hassles a bit easier>>
As
of now, everybody--all the animals in the tank--- appear to be doing
very well--I did tweak the 'nozzles' initially so as not to blast
anybody--so all is well.
<<Very good>>
THANKS again for ALL
you do for us in the hobby--where would we be without your help and
knowledge.
Bill
<<Rewarding and encouraging to read…We are
pleased to be of service. EricR>> |
Circulation Questions.
Heavy Water Flow And Fine Sand – 01/30/08
Am in the process of
putting together the components for my new 120 gallon tank (4x2x2).
<<Neat>>
I want to keep SPS and clams.
<<Ahh…no
“softies?”…excellent…
I don't want to utilize too much rock
(75-80lbs) as I would like the tank to have an open look.
<<I am much
in agreement with this method of aquascaping. Far too much rock in many
hobbyists’ tanks in my opinion. If more biological filtration is deemed
necessary a fine-grain sand bed of 4-inches or more will do the
trick…can even be placed remotely (sump/refugium)>>
I've got some
unique aquascaping planned using flexible PVC. With that in mind, here
is my circulation setup. Eheim 1262 (900gph) located directly beneath
the tank in the cabinet for my return pump with a gate-valve to control
return flow.
<<Nice choice…good quality long-lasting pumps>>
I
just purchased two 6-month old Tunze 6080's (2,250gph x 2, not
controllable) at a great price from a fellow member of my local reef
club.
<<Very nice… I am a big fan of these pumps for water
flow/circulation purposes. I employ seven such pumps (varying models
from 1600 to 3100 GPH) in my reef display>>
This gives me 5400 gph
total flow. Is this going to blow my sand all over the place?
<<Possibly… But careful placement can mitigate this to a large extent.
Regardless of what pump/methods you use, fine sand is going to “move
around some”>>
Roger from Tunze said it's a matter of placement and
that sugar-fine sand is going to blow around regardless.
<<Ah
yes…indeed so>>
What is my best bet here?
<<In what respect?>>
With everything maxed out I’m looking at 45x/hour and about 40x/hour if
I throttle back the return pump. I've read that this is an acceptable
flow rate for a SPS system but it's the DSB that's got me worried.
<<Hmm… I’m moving around about 16,000gph in my display (375g 8ft tank)
when everything is “going at once,” though this isn’t all the time as I
have my Stream pumps set up to switch randomly. I have my pumps set high
on the end-walls of the tank with magnetic mounts. I also have a 7-inch
sugar-fine DSB. I do get some blowing/sand movement when flow paths meet
at times, but nothing drastic. Gullies will form after some time, but
this is usually gradual and can be easily repaired if/when necessary by
gently raking the sand down from the high spots>>
I don't like the
bare bottom look. Is there another substrate that I could use that would
be less likely to blow around and that would be acceptable to place
clams on?
<<I don’t think you will be able to go much coarser before
it becomes to large/sharp. It is my opinion that the benefits of the
sugar-fine sand; as a biological filter, in-fauna matrix, and even a
clam base, outweigh any disadvantages of movement from heavy (read that
“healthy”) water flow. Regards, Eric Russell>>
Flow/Circulation 01/15/2008
<<Hello, Andrew here>>
I have a 54
gallon corner reef tank with 1 built-in overflow. I currently use a Mag
7 pump submersed in a wet/dry, and 1 Maxi-Jet 900 powerhead in the tank
for additional flow. I estimate that the Mag 7 circulates about 350 GPH
with head loss. I was thinking of going to a Mag 9.5 which would give
about 600 GPH. I also would like to remove the Maxi-Jet because of heat
transfer and looks. I can never get the tank temperature below 80
degrees. My question is - what is more important, GPH circulation
through sump or flow in tank?
<<Flow in the tank mainly as that is
where its mainly needed for the corals etc, however, overall flow
through sump and also inside display tank need to be added together>>
It seems that powerheads only move water around the tank and don't add
to the return circulation through the overflow. It really doesn't add to
the total turnover. Are powerheads really necessary if you have adequate
circulation through overflow?
<<Answered above. To go further, you do
need to have adequate water flow actually inside the aquarium, not just
via the overflow/return part of the whole reef. Flow wise, altogether, I
would suggest you need to have it at around 1300 - 1350 GPH "total"
water circulation, whether that be via in-tank powerheads, a closed loop
or a combination of. What you have to think about, with only using flow
via the return, is that if there is an issue with the sump and you have
to cut it off, then you loose all flow in the display tank, hence why
people will also have powerheads in the display tank and use them to
achieve the correct flow>>
I'd appreciate your comments. Mitch
<<Thanks for the questions, A Nixon>>
Water Flow 12/31/07
Thank you for all of the excellent
information you provide. Your website has been invaluable in the process
of setting up my reef tank.
<Thank you, great to hear!>
I have a
40 gallon tank with a 17 gallon sump/DSB refugium underneath. I sized
the overflow and return pump to provide close to 10X tank volume flow –
CPR CS50 overflow at 300 gph and an Eheim 1250 return pump at 317 gph –
but checked the actual flow at tank height and found it to be about 180
gph with less than 5 feet of head.
<Sounds about right.>
There is
an EcoTech propeller pump inside the tank to provide additional flow. It
is set fairly low, cycling between 200 to 600 gph, as it has the ability
to turn my tank into a sand storm!
<I guess so, this unit has tons
of flow capacity!!>
I’m thinking about putting in an Eheim 1260 to
increase the flow through the sump/refugium.
<Not unless you want to
throttle the pump back or upgrade your overflow (perhaps drill the
tank). The 1260 is a fairly strong pump and you are already at the
practical limit with the ¾” bulkhead on your overflow box. Your current
flow through your sump is fine.>
Should I just take my wife out to
dinner instead?
<Yes, money well spent in all respects.>
Thank
you for your time and knowledge,
Chris Gould
<Welcome, happy
reefing. Have a wonderful dinner, Scott V.>
Flow Rate 12/28/07
<Hello AJ>
Hey there guys,
I am running
a 90 gallon reef tank, mostly SPS, but there are some LPS and some soft
corals.
I was looking to get some advice on my flow rate, I am
currently running a Mag drive 1800 in my sump, which from looking at the
diagram with a pumping height of about 4' gives a flow rate of about
1375 gph, which is then going to a squid which has two outputs on each
side. Along with that I have two Hydor Koralia 4's one on each side of
the tank facing towards the top of the tank, and are wired to the
Koralia's pulsing wavemaker. According to my calculations this gives me
a flow rate of about 3775 gph, which is about a 42x per hour turnover
rate. I don't know how much more flow SPS require in order to thrive,
but from everything else I have read the average turnover rate is about
10-20 x per hour. So is this overkill for my tank, should I downgrade to
the Hydor Koralia 1 or the Hydor Koralia Nano which would give me a
turnover rate between 24-21, or should I just ditch the Hydro Koralia's
all together which would give me a turnover rate of ~15. I can clearly
say some of my LPS have been suffering from this much flow, but my SPS
are doing great, do you think my SPS would get the same success out of
lower turnover rate of about 20x per hour. Not to mention, while some of
my fish have gotten used to this much flow, some other spend very little
time in the open. What do you think?
AJ
<I would not reduce the
flow but rather redirect it. Make sure that the pumps are not directly
aimed at the polyps of your LPS. The Koralia 4's are definitely the best
option for your system. They move a lot of water but do not focus a
forced stream. If your pumps have the new "flow concentrator nozzles" on
them try removing them and see what happens. These nozzles are a black
ring that snaps on the end of the pump. If your pump did not come with
these "add-ons" then disregard. The turn over rate you have established
will do much to benefit the system overall. It takes some
experimentation with coral placement and pump flow direction to achieve
the harmony you seek. Try a couple of different things and see how it
goes. Rich-aka-Mr. Firemouth>
Flow in Reef Systems -- Video 12/19/2007
Hi, Crew.
<Hi Dan,
Mich here.>
I often hear posts about "how much flow" for reef
systems. I've had the honor of diving some real reefs,
<You are
lucky indeed!>
and can attest to the flow levels.
<Yes, the water
movement can be quite incredible.>
Here is one in North Sulawesi.
<Ah, a very nice place!>
Note that we were swimming against the
current for a lot of the time!
<Kick! Kick! Kick!>
Sorry for the
somewhat clumsy camera work, there was much to look out for (hate to hit
one of those soft corals going several knots!).
<Or even worse one
of the hard corals!>
For those who question your 20x/hr
recommendations, point them this way :)
<Thank you for sharing.>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxpoO0MnQuw
Enjoy,
<Wish I and some
of my fellow crew members had been there diving with you!
Cheers,
Mich>
Dan Flow...
Reef circ. 9/4/07
I am running a 120g 48x24x24
reef tank, with about 150lbs of Live Rock. I am looking at 3 maxi-get
1200 powerheads which have 295gph each, and a controller for it, with 2
rotating in opposites and a third on a separate timer. Along with my
800gph from my little giant should that be enough flow?
<It totally
depends on the arrangement of the tank and what kinds of coral you want
to keep. It's probably sufficient for corals that need less flow, but
probably not enough for Acropora types. But again, it will depend on the
arrangement of the pumps and the rock. Keep the live rock off of the
walls of the tank to maximize flow (that will help).
Best,
Sara
M.> Re: Flow, reef, circ.
9/5/07
Yes the rock is
positioned at least 5-6" away from the glass at all times.
<excellent>
The complication in the tank is that there are two
overflows ( not corner placed) so there is sort of a challenge to stop
dead space between the two overflows and the rock, since the effective
distance from the outer edge of the overflow to the rock at times is
small around 2".
I picked up a Tunze 1200gph powerhead, I like the
output it is very strong but very broad, so it makes alot of water
movement without putting any super high movement areas in front of it.
<Ah yes, these are great. I also have one and I absolutely love it.>
Would two of those Tunze 1200gph powerhead seem reasonable for the tank,
they would be aimed from the two upper back corners down towards the
center of the front of the tank where they would collide and create
turbulence...
<This sounds like a good idea to me. Another nice thing
about the Tunzes is that the flow is so bulky that you don't get as much
turbulence when you point them at the same spot. But turbulence is ok
(actually preferred for some corals) so long as it doesn't constantly
cause sand storms.>
with possibly one or two of my old 250gph
powerheads hidden in between the two overflows to prevent a dead space
in that area?
<Sounds like a plan... when it comes to water flow,
more is almost always better than less. Seriously, short of putting a
fire hose in your tank, it would be quite difficult to have too much
flow.>
Thanks again for your continued patience with me
<no bother
at all :) >
Josh
<Best,
Sara M.>
Stable water temperature? SW speculations on a return from HI
snorkeling...
Aloha Mr. Fenner!
<Howdy!>
I just got back
from the Big Island and Kauai, where I spent ten days snorkeling to my
heart's content.
<Bet you have a nice tan!>
I want to ask you a
question that's been on my mind for some time. I have read, over and
over again, on this site and in your book how important it is to keep
the water in one's aquarium at a stable temperature, and that stability
is more important than achieving a specific temp.
<Mmm, yes>
The
reason given is that the enormous ocean environment provides a stable
temperature, which our livestock is inherently accustomed to.
<Agreed>
So, on to my question: I have noticed in years past, and
again on my recent trip, that when I snorkel, I encounter patches of
colder water, and then patches of warmer water, in the same general
area, while I'm observing species that I have in my tank at home. What
do you think?
<You are certainly correct... Particularly on the Big
Island, there are zones where much cooler freshwater is intruding from
"Pukas" and cracks in the rock... having traveled from higher
elevations... this presents a difference in osmotic pressure and density
as well as a varying thermal regime... Yet the life there appears
healthy to me>
Are these temp differences I notice more subtle than I
realize?
<I believe so... Maybe one way of putting this situation in
perspective is to realize that the motile animals (do note the
difference in species make-up and abundance in these areas in the way of
not-so motile and attached biota) do move in/out of such zones (near the
land, surface)... and that they are in good shape to begin with... and
I'd speculate that the mixing in these areas is to their advantage in
avoiding predation...>
I have been very curious about this, as I do
struggle to keep a stable temp in my tank in my south florida home,
especially in winter months.
By the way, I was struck by the
incredibly strong currents in the ocean!
<Heeeee! More than Tunze and
Hydor powerheads?!>
I have four power heads in my 130 gallon, and I
fear they are woefully inadequate!
<Ah, yes... a useful lesson>
I
appreciate whatever comments you have to make, and continue to enjoy and
learn from this site, so thanks!
Elise
<Thank you for sharing... I
do think "constancy" is an important aspect of our successfully
maintaining a small part of a captive sea... but it is only one area of
concern/influence. Cheers and a hu'i hou! Bob Fenner>
Plumbing a Mag-5 Pump and Calculating Head-Height – 03/05/07
WWM-
<<Adam>>
I have a 65g. AGA tank with built in overflow
rated at 600gph,
<<Mmm...a single 1" drain likely...600 gph is
"optimistic" and downright problematic...in my estimation>>
and a
Mag5 return pump.
<<A decent enough make of pump>>
The Mag5 is
rated at 500gph, and 310gph at 4ft.
<<Yes>>
Is head-height
determined by total distance between pump outlet and tank return outlet
or simply height from return pump to top of tank?
<<Is a bit more
“involved” than either statement. Head-height/head-loss is figured
based on a combination of factors to include length of horizontal and
vertical pipe runs (though these are not “calculated” the same...I’ll
explain in a moment), plus the type and number of ells/tees/fittings/et
al, and even the diameter of the pipe/tubing used. Calculating vertical
pipe/tubing installations is simple...one foot of rise equals one-foot
of head-height, and it is generally universally agreed that every
ten-foot run of horizontal pipe is equal to a one-foot rise, as is each
90-degree ell and each tee fitting in the run. So, as an example...if
you have a return line that rises two feet above the pump, makes a
90-degree turn, runs horizontally for 5-feet, makes another 90-degree
turn, rises another two feet in to the tank, and terminates in a
tee...you are imposing a resistance on the pump roughly equal to 7
½-feet of head-height. Does this make sense to you? As for the
diameter of the pipe/tubing, it is often advised to match pipe-tubing
diameter to the output diameter of the pump...but in my experience;
especially with the Mag-Drive pumps, I have found that “upsizing” the
pipe often yields better results/flow rates. For the pumps with ¾”
outputs and smaller, I have found 1” pipe/tubing to work very well>>
Is this pump vastly underpowered for my setup?
<<That depends on
what you want the pump to do. If the only purpose is for
filtration/processing water through your sump and your head-height is
equal to 4-feet providing 300 gph of flow then yes, I would consider
this about ideal for a single 1” drain>>
It seems a fine line
between maximizing overflow flow capacity and overflowing the tank.
<<Yes indeed...and that’s even assuming the accompanying noise/surge
aren’t an issue>>
If so what would you recommend? I am in the
process of converting from Wet/dry to sump, so many possibilities.
<<My recommendation would be to utilize a pump that; based on your
plumbing configuration, provides about 300-350 gph to the sump...and
utilize powerheads/closed-loop/etc for additional flow within the
display tank>>
Thanks for all the help!
<<Happy to share. Eric
Russell>> Tank Flow
Calculation Questions - 2/20/07
Greetings gang,
<Hey Bob,
JustinN with you today.>
I am finalizing plans for a new tank and
refugium (with lots of help from your wonderful site) and I have a
general question about recommended GPH in the display tank.
<Ok,
lets see if I can't help clear it up some.>
Should you subtract the
6 inches for the DSB when calculating the total gallons of the main
tank?
<I wouldn't>
What about the space that the live rock
occupies?
<Again, I wouldn't personally.>
Thanks for all your
help,
Bob
<I'm a big proponent of heavy flow in marine settings,
myself. This is not to mean you want things so turbulent that corals
would seem to lean solid to one side, but instead allow for a good
amount (I would aim for 15-20x the tank volume, considering my
statements above as well) of diffuse flow. Hope this helps clear things
up a bit for you! -JustinN>
Power Heads - 1/22/07
Hello,
<Hey Ron, JustinN with you today.>
Could you tell me if
there is a formula for deciding the amount of GPH power head to use in a
tank?
<Typically, the "rule of thumb" for lower flow requirement
corals, and a FOWLR aquarium is to aim for turnover at a rate of 10
times the tank volume. For example, a 50 gallon tank's 'minimum flow
requirements' would be a turnover of around 500 gallons per hour.>
I
would eventually like to get some soft corals in a 75 gallon tank. I was
looking at an Seio 1100 GPH power head, does that
seem ok or too
much movement for that size tank.
<I would likely go for a pair, one
per side of the aquarium.>
thank you for your help.
Ron
<No
problem, Ron. Glad to help! -JustinN>
Re: Power Heads
- 1/22/07
Thank you for the quick response, if I put a pair do
I need to use two 1100 GPH units or can I go a little smaller say
620GPH. I'm thinking in terms of generating less heat in the tank.
<The heat will likely be of little concern with only 2 pumps, in a tank
this size, my friend. However, you would likely be ok with 2 of the
smaller units. The choice is yours, though I don't feel the heat concern
is warranted. Good luck! -JustinN>
Plumbing/Water Flow In A
Three-Sided Tank - 01/09/07
WWM crew,
<<Howdy Brian!>>
Got the Reef Invert book by Anthony and Bob and have been masticating on
its colorful fibers.
<<Hee-hee! But wouldn't a piece of gum be
better?!>>
Planning a system with upstream refugium, display, and
downstream sump/fuge with return.
<<Cool!>>
I want the display
to be viewable from both sides and along the width, more like a biotope
than the standard, two dimensional wall reef.
<<I see>>
I am
thinking 20" tall, 24" deep, 60" long acrylic (125).
<<Ok>>
I am having trouble imagining how plumbing might be incorporated to
avoid obstructing the view.
<<Will have to be run in/out from the
"concealed" end>>
Can I have symmetrical overflow, like reef-ready
tanks but on the one 24" width which will face the wall to keep pipe out
of view?
<<Sure, you might even want to consider a horizontal
overflow, or just bulkheads with screens...though the latter requires a
bit more fuss to mange water levels/flow. Whichever method you choose,
don't worry about the plumbing outside the tank on the end being
visible. This was a concern for me when I installed my current system a
few years back (in-wall system viewable from both sides), but once there
is water in the tank the light refraction prevents you from seeing
through the end panel>>
Will this be inviting dead spots on the far
side?
<<Assuming flow will only be coming from the one end, you will
need a full flow pattern, and in my opinion, preferably something that
pulses/alternates intensity. A Tunze Wavebox would be ideal here I
think, though if you don't want to give up the space associated re you
could also get by with a pair of Tunze 6000 pumps mounted to/below the
overflow and cycled with the Tunze 7095 controller>>
BTW, I am
thinking 1500 GPH flow rate for the display,
<<I don't think this
will be enough, especially considering the configuration. The Tunze
pumps mentioned when combined will give you a bit more than twice this
(when "both" pumps are at "maximum") and I think you will find this to
be a big help at keeping detritus in suspension at the far end of the
tank>>
1000 GPH for the up-'fuge (16x24x60) -- 'pod colony.
<<Should be ok, but if you find the flow a bit much to manage here you
can easily reduce by half and still be fine>>
As always, thanks so
much.
Brian
<<A pleasure to share, EricR>> To Flow or
not to flow 9/13/04
Hello to the WetWebMedia Crew!
<cheers
:)>
You have been so helpful with all the other little bumps I have
hit I decided you would be the first people I ask for a recommendation
on flow improvement. I have an 80 gallon AGA 48"X18"X21"tall and I am
upgrading it to handle SPS. I currently run a MAK4 (1120 GPH-head
loss-SCWD loss=?) from my sump to a SCWD (squid) up to two sets of Loc
line jets on each side of the tank. The flow was fine for softies but I
worry it will not be enough to keep my SPS happy.
<agreed... garden reefs need about 10-20X water flow... but SPS tanks
generally need a minimum of 20X. So... your 80 gallon tank needs at
least 1600 gph... closer to 2000 gall would be nice>
I have
considered a spray bar but have heard stories of frequent cleanings and
increased backpressure leading to burst return pipes.
<true>
I was wondering What you would recommend to boost/maximize my
flow?
<please do check out:
http://wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm>
Do you recommend Sea
Swirls?
<yes... they are very fine products>
If I
could avoid another couple hundred dollars in pumps that would be sweet
as my new hood broke the bank! Any suggestions would be much
appreciated!
<the above link is a very inexpensive and effective
means of delivering water flow. Best regards, Anthony>
Flow rate
Is flow rate of a tank determined by the return pump?
<To the largest extent, yes>
I know that in order to keep the sump
at a certain level, the drain line to the sump has to be larger than the
return line, for example, a 1" drain with a 3/4" return.
<Yes> |
If this is true, does installing a pump with a larger flow rate increase
the flow rate of the aquarium?
<Can, should, yes>
What is the
recommended turnover rates for different types of aquarium setups?
<As a general "rule of thumb", more is better... ten, twenty times
turnover for most all>
Thanks for the info. I am getting tired of
working in my trade.
It has become very stressful and I do not enjoy
it anymore.
<Very sorry to hear... but glad to realize that your
awareness>
For the past 7 years I have been gratified with my
aquariums and have been doing much research online with things
pertaining to this hobby. In the past year I have been thinking of
performing a slow (a little at a time) change in career to designing
and constructing acrylic aquariums, refugiums, wet/dry filters and
terrariums. I know I can do it and I know I would love it.
<Outstanding. Welcome to our trade. Bob Fenner>
How much
water flow for a 72 gal?
Adam! Thanks for your response.
By
20L, I meant a 20 gallon long aquarium. Sorry for the confusion. <<
Okay, that sounds better. >>
Since then space constraints have
limited me to a 15g refugium. Isn't 800gph in a 15 gallon refugium too
much? Shouldn't I keep the flow low? << Well you don't want the water
blowing all your algae around in your sump. But on the other hand the
refugium only helps out because it is connected to the main tank. So to
get benefits from it you need that water turning over. >>
BTW, I
just ordered a Tunze stream 1600gph pump. I'm planning to have two Seio
620s on one end and the Tunze at the other -1600gph meeting 1200gph
somewhere near the middle of the tank. The Tunze has a 2" outlet, and
the Seio's 1.5" outlets. As a result the output velocities will be
close.
I could use the Mag3 from the Remora Pro to pump water from
the refugium to the display. With a 4' head it's good for at least
200gph, and the skimmer can be powered by a Quiet one 3000 rated at
780gph. << Sounds good. >> I hear these pumps don't like back-pressure
and tend to overheat. Any truth to that? << All pumps have that problem,
but if you are restricting the output and not the input I think you'll
be fine. >>
This will result in a total flow of about 3600gph for a
72G. Is that too much for just Xenia and Capnella? And the fish? I worry
about the clown...
<< You can never have too much flow. This sounds
great. >>
Thank You for your time!
Narayan
<< Blundell >>
Water Movement For Acropora
Hello,
<Hi there! Scott F. here
today!>
Do Acroporas do better with a direct flow of one power head
or with 2 - 125gph Power Sweep power heads? I have a 10 gall nano reef
tank with 1 Acro with plenty of room for more! What do you guys think?
Thanks for your time!
<Well, most of the Acropora that favor high
flow will benefit from randomized, indirect flow. Laminar flow directly
into a coral can literally peel the tissue right off of the colony.
Better to use those Power Sweep powerheads, or even some sort of
rotating return device, like the wonderful Sea Swirls! HTH! Regards,
Scott F.>
Skimmer flow
Bob- could
you tell me if a protein skimmer water movement adds to the flow rate of
the reef tank. The skimmer is out side the sump with a external pump 700
gph. RGibson
<I'd say yes... and would like to add a
proviso... that there is MUCH more flow in the wild in most all settings
than anything a hobbyist supplies... Practically speaking, w/o sucking
up or blasting your livestock against a tank wall, there is no such
thing as "too much" water flow. Bob Fenner> GPH question..
2/2/04
What gph rating do you recommend for a 180 gallon tank?
I'm going to have it "T" off to both returns from my sump, so its going
to be one pump doing all the work. I plan on going with an Iwaki, and
they have one rated for 1500 gph and 2000 gph @ 4ft. Any good advice
will be greatly appreciated...
<As a general rule, total water flow
should be 5x the tank volume for a fish only tank, and 5-10x or more for
a reef tank. The problem you may encounter is weather your drains will
handle such high flow. You may have to choose a smaller return pump,
which has other advantages such as less noise, less power consumption,
and lower cost. You can make up the difference with powerheads or closed
loop circulation. Hope this helps. Adam> - Too Much Turnover?
-
Bob,
<JasonC here in his stead...>
I am having a slight
problem with a recent ocellaris clownfish I just purchased, he seem to
have a difficult time swimming in my tank with the current. Do I have
too much turnover? This is what I have as of now:
2 maxi 900s - 230
gph = 460gph
1 penguin bio wheel = 330gph
for a total of 790gph. I
have a 46g bow front with 50# of Fiji live rock. that is a turnover of
right around 17.1x an hour. but my major questions are will the clown be
ok? <I think so... give it some time to 'get in shape' as it were...>
looks like he is struggling at times. <Some of that is just due to the
way they swim... seem to be struggling but in fact they are not.> great
color to him, he is eating. Will I be ok if I turn my BioWheel off until
I get my skimmer? <Uhh... I wouldn't, think this does provide some of
your biological filtration... would leave it running.> When I get my
skimmer I plan on taking the BioWheel off the tank anyways. will my live
rock be enough filtration for now until I get my skimmer? <Perhaps, but
not something that I like to see happen suddenly... perhaps take the
wheel itself out and let sit submerged inside the tank somewhere in case
you need to get it running again soon.>
thanks
Tim
<Cheers, J
-- > - Circulation Question -
Hi Folks: Thanks for all
the great info on your site.
I'm new to the hobby and have been
voraciously reading your words of wisdom.
I have a 58 gallon FOWLR
that is 8 weeks old, filled with 50lbs of live rock and 4 fish (2 YT
Damsels, 1 Clown, and 1 Yellow Tang). I have a 20 gallon refugium
underneath with a Mag 2 pumping 125gps back into the tank (when
factoring in the height.) This week 2 fish died with what looked like
tail rot and I'm concerned that a purplish algae growing on the rocks
and sand is Cyanobacteria. I've been feeding with a pinch of flakes in
the morning and 1 cube of frozen food at night, but have now backed off
to 1/2 cube at night.
After reading your many articles on
circulation, I've realized that my circulation is woefully inadequate
and may be the source of my problem, so I added a Maxi-jet 1200, pumping
295gph. I am also considering changing my refugium pump to a Mag 7 as
advised by my LFS, which would pump 480gph at the given height. <Hmm...
or just some more circulation in the tank... would allow the refugium to
stay more of a refuge than a sump if you left the pump you had. You
could easily get two more of those MaxiJets in there.>
I am concerned
that I am overdoing it on the circulation. <Nah...> Since I added the
Maxi-jet, the fish are now hiding in rocks and caves and only come out
at feeding time. <Could be for other reasons, but give them some time...
I think you will see the fish actually like it. Am circulating roughly
1800 GPH in my 55 not including the return... should be no big deal.>
Should I replace the 1200 with a lower powered model, or is this just
normal behavior where the fish just need time to get used to the
increased circulation? <It's a bit of a surprise at first, I think...
but they should adapt to it pretty quickly.>
Thanks,
Ken
<Cheers, J -- > Water Turnover
Hello all, wow it seems
like you guys are getting more and more questions every day!!! My
question is about water turnover. I read that water turnover for a reef
tank should be between 15-20x. I just wanted to be clear that what is
meant by turnover can include powerheads so if I am running 2
powerheads, 1 @ 175gph 1 300gph and a protein skimmer that has a
powerhead that runs @ 295 gph for a total of 770 gph in a 46 gallon tank
I would satisfy that requirement. I just wasn't clear that what is meant
by "turnover" only meant a sump system where the water was leaving the
tank and returning. <Cumulative, all movement in the tank, so your
figures are correct. Although, you may have to add movement to a 'spot'
to help with algae/detritus control, Don> Thank You. Angelo
Closed Loop Flow rate
I did go to RC and enter the params... all
it said for a result was that I have 7 feet of head pressure. They even
broke it down to 6 feet from the 90-degree elbows and 1 foot of actual
height. But this would imply no flow for my system.
<If you have
flow, there must be one or more of several things happening:
Actual
head height is not as much as assumed, pump output is greater then
assumed, less actual plumbing restriction than assumed.>
Side
question: I have the pump submerged in the tank about 1 foot below water
level, then water goes out over the rim of the tank, down about 8" to
accommodate the SQWD and then back up over the rim and into the
tank. Should I consider any head pressure from this arrangement from
the 1 foot up (assuming the 8" up and down will cancel out) or does it
just have to do with the water level in the tank (i.e. about 2" of head
to get over the rim of the tank)?
<Actual head height would be less
than 10" as the 8" doesn't "cancel out", but it isn't a straight 8"
head either. Pump depth and only pushing 2" over rim also changes
equation in pumps favor.>
If I don't need to include this in the
calculations then I come out at about 6 feet of head pressure, and the
pump is rated around 320 g.p.h. at that point... that would explain
it. Although it seems like more flow than that... it's really hard to
tell.
Jeremy
<There you go. Hard to judge from there without a
flow meter. Craig> Too much water flow?
<Hello again
Luke, PF here with you tonight>
I'm wondering... is it possible to
have too fast water flow in the tank?
I currently have 2x 150 power
heads in 20gallon tank. The water is pretty agitated. <Well, you're
turning over the tanks volume 15 times an hour, no surprise there>
I
have 2 small clownfish in there.
Could the water current be too
strong for the fish? I currently have no corals in the tank.
<Well,
unless the fish are being dashed about on the rocks, or are always
struggling, I wouldn't worry to much. You can always swap them out for
something with less power if you're really worried.>
Thank you,
Luke
<You're welcome, have a good evening, PF>
- Flow Rates
-
<Good morning, JasonC here...>
I have enjoyed reading all
the post and helpful answers as well as Bob Fenner's recent book. I
have a question about plumbing a 65 gallon reef tank. First how can you
determine the drainage capacity of a particular size bulkhead?
<Somewhere, there is a formula but for the life of me I can't recall at
the moment - if I recall, 1" is capable of 600 GPH, so 1.5" will be much
more so.> I am thinking about using two 1.5" overflows in the upper back
wall in one corner approximately 3" apart and enclosing them in a full
size (tank depth) overflow box to increase surface skimming
capacity. The box would fill and then empty via the 2-1.5" overflows
into the sump. Does this sound feasible? <Sure.> From the sump inlet
side I want to feed the skimmer then into the clean side and back to the
tank via one pump. Also from the sump inlet side I want to go directly
back to the tank with one pump and split into two returns for basically
a closed loop circulation as I would rather not use powerheads. How
does this sound. <Feasible, but you might want to at least feed the
skimmer and closed loop from a settling chamber in the sump - water
coming from the tank will have a lot of air in it which will make the
pumps cavitate and in turn be less efficient and noisy to boot.> One of
the most confusing parts of setting up my first reef tank is the
plumbing to provide adequate flow and circulation. <I think you are on
the right track.>
Thank you very much for any advise.
John
<Cheers, J -- > Water flow question
I am currently
setting up a 300g L.R. and aggressive fish tank. I have been keeping
tabs on your Q&A section and have noticed a lot of reference to water
movement. Now I find myself questioning my own set up. Here is a rundown
on what I have planned so am just wondering if my flow will be adequate;
4 hundred lbs rock, to 8 in sand,55g sump with circulation disrupters
(pc.s of acrylic sideways) chiller of course, second 55g sump with app.2
mangroves and mud bottom with app.900gph flow, the main tank will have
4200gph return flow with 4 additional 700gph wave generators inside to
make sure of no dead zones. Does this sound adequate or should I even
shoot higher. PS. AND YES THERE WILL BE TWO SKIMMERS DOWN FLOW OF THE
MANGROVES. Mahalo from Maui Bill
<Aloha, Bill! It sounds like the
water flow in the display will likely be quite fine. The old
recommendation of 4 to 10X tank volume is dead. Modern aquaria with
large live rockscape if nothing else negate that. 10X per hour is a
minimum... reefers and tanks with aggressive/messy feeding fishes like
your should be closer to 20X of random turbulent flow. The only thing I
would do different here is lose the wave generators. Run straight flow
in a random turbulent pattern... Far more effective. The bottom line is
that we want no dead spots for detritus to accumulate... all should be
kept in suspension for skimmers, etc. No worries here about excessive
flow as long as linear/laminar movement (one-directional) is avoided.
Further info here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm
Best regards, Anthony>
Water flow
I am currently setting up a 300g L.R. and aggressive
fish tank. I have been keeping tabs on your Q&A section and have noticed
a lot of reference to water movement. Now I find myself questioning my
own set up. Here is a rundown on what I have planned so I'm just
wondering if my flow will be adequate: 400 lbs LR <Great!>,to 8 in sand
<Do you mean 8 inches of sand? IMO this is too much for a FOWLR tank.
Have a thin bed an inch or less and you won't need to worry about it
becoming a nutrient sink. Nitrates are not that big of a concern for
your tank...nitrates are totally undesirable in a reef tank.>
55g
sump with circulation disrupters
<For this size tank, I would want a
bigger sump. Many people like the sump to be around 30% of the tank
volume. This would put the sump at about 90-100 gallons. This will add
flexibility to your tank and make overflow of water onto the floor much
less of a possibility.>
pieces of acrylic turned sideways
<called
baffles>
chiller of course
<Is there a specific reason for this
addition? In reef tanks, chillers are needed because the intensive
lighting produces lots of heat that raises the temperature of the water.
You will not want intensive light for this setup because of high
nutrients from messy feeders, etc. Intensive light for this type of
setup will most likely cause a hair algae nightmare.>
second 55g sump
<55g + 55g=110 g. The two sumps will be adequate. The second sump like
the one you are describing is commonly called a refugium.>
with app.2
mangroves and mud bottom with app.900gph flow
<You will need much
less flow through the refugium. A refugium is a place with gentle
currents.>
the main tank will have 4200gph
<Acceptable>
return
flow with 4 additional 700gph wave generators inside to make sure of no
dead zones.
<Okay>
Does this sound adequate or should I even shoot
higher? <Sounds good. No complaints from me.>
PS. AND YES THERE WILL
BE TWO SKIMMERS DOWN FLOW OF THE MANGROVES. <Fantastic! Don't skimp on
the skimmers! Spend some of the money your going to save from not buying
the chiller and buy really good skimmers like Euro-reef or similar
brand. With aggressive fish (big, messy eaters) you're going to need the
best filtration possible.>
Mahalo from Maui, Bill
<You're welcome!
Please peruse the WetWebMedia website for this and much more information
about saltwater aquariums. Knowledge is power! David D. in sunny Las
Vegas. Water Flow Rates
Dear WWM,
I kept marine fish
in the 60's and early 70's and am currently in the process of "getting
up to speed" in preparation for a reef tank. I have spent much of this
prep-time on your very helpful web site and am looking forward to your
new book.
<I can tell you the guys are ready to finish it too!>
My
question(s) have to do with figuring out water flow rates. I have not
purchased any equipment yet, just doing a lot of reading.
<Very
good!>
If (for this example) I had a 110 gal tank and am planning on
a back drilled overflow arrangement using 1" ID PVC. From what I have
read it appears that one could estimate 600 GPH (per hole) to be gravity
fed to the sump. My sump will be 22 gal. capacity, sitting 4 feet under
the surface of the show tank. The skimmer will be in the sump with it's
own pump.
<Ideally the sump should be 1/3 the tank volume. Much water
to account for....>
If I want say 12 times the capacity of my tank to
flow through the sump and back to the display tank. 110 gal x 12= 1320
GPH. Should I drill (3) 1" ID holes for my overflow (1800,GPH) and use
gate valves above the sump to adjust the overflow rate into the sump?
<The reverse of this. Unrestricted overflows from display to sump, valve
on pump (sized as you suspect) to control flow rate to display.>
Put
simply, is it only a matter of selecting the right return pump
(factoring in head pressure etc) to match the overflow rate from the
display tank? (I have visions of my sump looking like a swirling mass
of water rushing through, sweeping sand and LR all around)!
<Yes. Use a partition or small plastic bucket/pvc fittings to control
the currents. It is best to oversize the overflows like crazy (If they
call for 1" I use 1 1/2"). The flow rate is controlled with a simple
PVC gate valve directly behind (inline) with your pump, sized to account
for head height, plumbing restrictions, etc. There are no valves on the
overflows, they flow freely by gravity to a section of the sump and
perhaps filter bags. I have my doubts if 1" pipe will carry 600gph
passively (gravity fed). I advise over sizing overflows/bulkheads if at
all possible or using more than anticipated. Also, purchase bulkheads
first, they require larger holes than the pipe ID, drilled with a hole
saw.>
I know I also need to position my overflow near the
surface. What "formula" do I use to figure out how many gallons will go
down the overflow (based on the height position or actual water intake
level of the overflow) in the event of a power failure? i.e.. a 1.5"
drop in the water level of a tank that is 48"x24"x 25" will work out to
be "X" number of gallons draining into my sump.
<You don't. You put
the top of the overflow 1/4-1/2" below the water level you want to
maintain in the display (making them adjustable is a good idea) fill the
tank to the top of the overflows and then fill your sump, leaving a
little room just in case. MAKE SURE THERE ARE SMALL 3/16" HOLES DRILLED
IN THE RETURN LINES (the pumped line from the sump to the display) JUST
BELOW THE SURFACE OF THE WATER of the display (the level desired in the
display while running) which would be the same level as the top of the
overflows. These will allow air in to break the siphon in the
pump/return line as the water level falls so the tank doesn't siphon the
tank to the bottom of the return lines, but stops at the top of the
overflows. If the power goes out now, the water will only refill the
sump to the original non-running fill level.>
One last question, for
now. What is the ideal water level in a sump (more specifically, in a
22 gal. sump should I keep it approximately 1/2 full, 3/4 full etc
leaving some, yet to be determined room, for the overflow in the case of
power failure)?
<Fill as above. If care is taken to stop siphoning
below the overflow level, the sump can be filled say 3/4 or slightly
more when the system is not running. When it is turned on it will use
more water in the system, but can only return to the former, non-running
level, not overflow. Does this make sense to you? It's important you
understand.>
Thank you much for your time and interesting reading.
(This is not something that was a possible 30 years ago when I first
started out, and now to have such a resource at my finger tips...it's
great!)
Thanks again, Cary
<You very welcome Cary, have
fun! Craig> Pump Up The Volume!
Hi and thanks for the
quick response. I'm almost finished with my setup, but could use some
clarification on 2 things:
My pump can put more water into the tank
than the overflow can keep up with. I have a valve I can turn down to
slow the pump: is that bad and will it overheat the pump by keeping this
back pressure on it?
<Should not put excessive back pressure on the
pump in a well-designed system>
I was also thinking of increasing the
rate the water is drawn out of the tank by adding a straight siphon from
the inside overflow box directly to the sump. This siphon will still
break if the power goes out, but won't start up again (like the U tube),
so I would get a switch that won't turn back on after a power
outage. Is this a dumb idea? :)
<I don't think it's a dumb idea.
Actually, since the straight pipe doesn't rely on siphon, it will
actually restart when the pump pushes enough water to reach the top of
the overflow. Personally, I think that this type of standpipe is much
more reliable than an elbow>
How do other people balance the outtake
with the pump power, besides adding more overflows or having less
powerful pumps.
<I've seen people knock out skimmer box teeth to
allow more water in, adding larger standpipes in the overflow to the
sumps, etc. Lots of good ways for creative people to accomplish this. Do
use the wetwebmedia.com chat forum, where you can connect with lots of
other DIYer's.>
My Ebo Jager heaters say not to immerse beyond the
indicated water line, but I know that some people still completely
submerse them (horizontally) anyway. Is that risky?
<Nope. Most
people with sumps seem to use them in a horizontal position. By the way,
the line on the Ebo's refers to the minimum water level that the heater
should be immersed in when in a vertical position. Should be no problem
horizontally>
Thanks again! Mike
<And thank you for stopping by!
Good luck with your setup! Regards, Scott F> Water Movement
Thank you for all the help received so far.
<You're welcome!>
When
considering water movement, what counts as low, medium and high?
<IMO
anything under 10x per hour is very low. Anything over 20x is very high.
Anything in between is just about right unless you have an SPS tank>
In a 36 by 12 by 15 inches tank I have two Fluval plus 2 filters running
all the time, one with coral gravel and the other with Cerapore. The
filter containing Cerapore provides the most water movement. In addition
I sometimes use a third Fluval plus 2 which contains PolyFilter and Rowa
phos. With all three going, the seaweed sways gently. What water
movement is this?
<Low>
What animals appreciate it?
<Many
including mushrooms and bottom-dwelling fish>
Also I have a pearl
bubble coral, Physogyra. This coral seems to be doing ok, but I have
heard conflicting reports of correct water movement and light.
<Low
to moderate current. Please feed this critter>
The coral is just more
than half way from the top of the water and the metal halide is around
16 inches above the water.
<Might be better off in the lower level of
your tank. It doesn't need really strong light. In fact, it may not
fully expand in the presence of really strong light. David Dowless>
If it helps, the coral was green but has had sufficient light to turn
brown. I don't know the type of bulb is in the metal halide.
Circulation for 840g
Hey Guys,
<Hello!>
Thanks for taking
your time to read this and hopefully answer a couple of questions for
me. I'm working on the set up of a 840 gallon aquarium
<Fish Only?>
and was wondering about circulation. I am considering using the Dolphin
5600 which as I understand is rated at 5600gph at eight foot head, the
returns will be at a height of 7 ft. (the tank is 7'X4'X4' and the stand
is 3' tall), I know this will only turn over the tank about 6.6 times
per hour, will this be o.k.?
<Maybe...as a bare minimum. I would
want more circulation. Be sure that your overflows are large enough to
handle the volume that you want to push through it. Otherwise, pump size
won't matter. You have three options for increasing circulation: use
powerheads (a dreadful idea), larger pump (not bad) or a closed loop
circulation system (YeeHaw!) This is what I would do. A closed loop
circulation system will require an additional pump but it really is the
best idea. Plans for doing this abound on the internet. I want to
suggest Anthony Calfo's book on Coral Propagation. Circulation will help
you avoid algae and Cyanobacteria problems as well as contributing to
the overall health of your tank. The fish will love the added water
movement. Remember, these critters are coming from the ocean>
I am
really open to any other recommendations you could make on other pumps,
but at the time I would like to use just one strong pump, and add
smaller ones when finances allow. Any other pumps you would rather use?
<A dolphin will do the job. When you need this much circulation, your
choices are somewhat limited. Just be sure it is saltwater safe>
The
second and third questions concern the plumbing. The pump has 2"
in/out-takes and I was planning on t-ing the return into 2 2" returns,
one for each side of the tank, ( the tank is going to be viewed from the
two long sides and one short), does this sound o.k.? Any suggestions?
<I would want more returns within the tank. You will have very little
circulation with only two returns. I would want the largest returns that
I could find. You may even need to special order the parts. Only 2
returns at 2" a piece is too few and too small. Plus, there's no way
over 5000 gph will go through a 2 inch hole>
Lastly, the drains in
the overflow, I am planning to use 2" bulkheads but am not really sure
how many should suffice, 3, 4, 5?
<The more the merrier. For sure,
at the very least one on each end and one in the middle. I would
probably do 4 large bulkheads (as big as possible) spacing them evenly
across the back of the tank. If noise becomes a problem, build a Durso
standpipe...It will make the overflows silent>
Like I said, I am
planning on adding at least one more circulation pump (2-3000gph) in the
future so I guess I'm asking how many I should use for 8-9000gph
turnover.
<That would be fabulous for the closed-loop plumbing that I
was talking about. Do yourself a favor and get the Calfo book>
Thanks for your time, and best wishes to all.
<It's my pleasure>
Carl
P.S.---Your website is a great resource to the hobby.
<Thanks. David Dowless> Re: Current
Thanks for your help
so far....this is the best site I have found for information on marine
tanks. I have a quick, easy question. It's about current in the tank,
and how much water current is sufficient. First I'll explain what I
have thus far.
The tank is 90 gallons. 48X24X18 (standard 90 gallon
tank) I have a mountain as I call it of live rock in the center of the
tank, gradually leveling out to the sides. All the rock is doing very
well. I'm still cycling my tank with the rock, 2 cheap domino damsels,
<don't tell them that.>
a convict blenny, and about 10-15 hermit
crabs. The water testing levels are all in check thus far. Now for the
water current dilemma.
I have a FLUVAL 404 canister filter that
shoots current from one corner, I have my protein skimmer causing a
waterfall type current on the other side of the tank. In the center, I
have a powerhead shooting current downward over the rock towards the
front of the tank. Both powerheads are moving about 295 gph and the
Fluval is slightly more. Is this too much current for the live rock in
the tank? The fish seem to enjoy it but I don't want to harm my rock.
<Fear not, they are tough>
I have been told that the more current the
better, but I just want to get a second opinion. Also, would too much
current harm the fish? Eventually I hope to get a wave maker with
several powerheads that change throughout the days. Any information
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy holidays also.
John
<Thank you, happy Holidays to you as well my friend. May your
holidays be filled with tanks, skimmers, sterilizers, rock, sand, fish,
and all that fun stuff. The more flow the better is correct, but there
are different kinds of flow. Save your money on the wave maker and
check out the article below.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm
Best Regards, Gage>
Powerheads
Bob, a question about powerheads. <<Bob's not here,
man. You get JasonC in his stead.>> I 46 gallon bow front marine tank. I
have a Aqua Clear 300 on one side of the tank and I also have a Aqua
Clear 400 on the other side of the tank. My ecosystem also has a Rio
600. The powerheads face each other to get a turbulence kind of effect
and the Rio just agitates the surface. Do I need additional powerheads
because of the bow front? <<I wouldn't think so - this seems like
adequate circulation, but time will tell. If you find yourself fighting
problem algae, then perhaps you might consider an additional
powerhead.>>
Thanks <<You are welcome. Cheers, J -- >> Re:
Porcupine Puffer (actually water movement, pH: marine)
Anthony:
Thanks for the help. 2 more follow ups. 1.) is there a source written or
electronic which directs how much water flow different species of fish
prefer.
<good question, but no authoritative work that I am aware
of. Much of it is anecdotal or inferred by study of where the fish comes
from on the reef... lagoonal and open water species preferring quiet
flow, herbivores like tangs from reef crests and surging areas like
stronger flow, etc>
2.) My PH is 8.3 middle of the day but my dKH id
10.4 and my calcium is 360.
<all quite fine... let the ALK fall a
little if your like and you'll be able to bring that calcium up a
little. Small matter though>
How do I push my PH up without sending
the alkalinity through the roof.
<ease up on buffer and use more
Kalkwasser instead... that will raise pH and calcium levels>
I am
using ESV two part solution for buffer and calcium.
<a fine
product... my favorite brand of its kind>
Thanks again for the help.
James
<with kind regards, Anthony> Too much water
circulation?
Hi everyone! How was your weekend?
<Too short!>
A few days ago, the pump that I was using to return the water from the
sump to the main tank failed. So in that hurry, I took one of the power
heads from the main tank to replace the one who failed. Obviously the
power head doesn't "pump" enough water so I went to buy another. The
only pump I could find (suitable to be inside of my house without the
night noise) was a "Little Giant" 5-msp (sump pump (submergible) which
can propel 1000 gph @10' head.
<Are you sure this is saltwater safe?
My guess is no.>
My tank is only 50 gallons, so that pump can drive
20 times the volume of my tank. It is too much?
<No>
I made a kind
of flute with 4 nozzles pointed to different directions in order to
create turbulence. Right now I only have 3 fish (2 damsel, 1 yellow
tang) some hermit crabs, 4 turban snails, 1 brittle star, 40 pounds of
LR, and a few polyps. My intention is to create a good place with good
water flow and light to keep a reef tank.
<Sounds like you are on the
right track, but do double check that pump, though.>
Thanks for your
response, Carlos
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> 120 Gallon
Tank Flow Rates
Greetings to the WWM staff,
I am setting up a
120 AGA that will be used as a reef tank and have just a few questions
about the flow rates that the tank can handle. The tank measures 4 X 2 X
2 and has 2 overflows, one in each rear corner. The overflows appear to
be drilled to accept a 1” drain and a ¾” return, respectively.
<Fairly standard>
I have a custom acrylic sump in the basement with a
capacity of 90 gallons and will be pumping back up to the display. I
will calculate the required head pressure and size the pump accordingly,
but I lack some required data at this point and cannot arrive at a
logical conclusion that is based on fact. I intend to fabricate some
Durso standpipe devices so that the wife won’t complain about noise and
such coming from the overflows.
<Good idea>
I also would like to
run (2) ¾” Sea Swirl return devices so that I have a very nice and
turbulent water flow in my display. Since the tank will be dedicated to
SPS, I think they will appreciate the water movement.
<Agreed>
How
do I calculate to total capacity, expressed in GPH, of the 2 Durso
standpipes?
<I would look at Richard Durso's homepage. He may have
the figures there. At the very least, information on how much water he
runs through his overflows.>
They will be 1” of course
<Do double
check your design. I believe Richard recommends using 1 1/4" or 1 1/2"
PVC for the drain with a reducing fitting at the very end.>
and I can
size the pump accordingly but I certainly don’t need a bunch of water on
the floor in room where I will house my display.
Many thanks in
advance for your replies. Jason
<Good luck to you. -Steven Pro>
Re: too much water circulation?
Thank you for your response. I
followed your advice, so I contacted the
people from Little Giant,
and they told me what you said "this pump is not intended to use in
marine aquariums". So I return it and change it. Thanks.
<You are
welcome.>
Just to give some practical things that I observed with my
reduced flow. Maybe 2-3 days after the flow was reduced, the hair algae
started to grow over some parts of the rock, then Cyanobacteria appeared
in spots over the sand, the skimmer started to produce just green tea
substance instead the coffee product. It is amazing how fast the
environment can be corrupted when just one (and so important as the
water movement) condition is out of the right performance.
<Appropriate flow is a critical component.>
Today at night my tank
will receive the benefit of a new pump 850 gal/h @3' ahead (my tank 50
gal.)
<Sounds good>
Greetings
<Have a nice day. -Steven Pro>
Water movement in clam tank
Hello everyone at WWM,
<Howdy>
I am planning an 85 gal. flatback hex tank (48 x 18 x 24), and the
critical species that will inhabit the tank are Tridacnid clams. Can you
help clarify my confusion over the flow rate for the tank?
<I'll try>
Daniel Knop's book on giant clams states that "we have to do with much
less performance when keeping clams. .
. that is, five times the
aquarium volume. . . seems reasonable to me." (pg. 147)
That seems
pretty low.
<Mmm, it's okay... given "complete" movement of the water
(little "dead areas")>
I am trying to keep the specs of the tank as
close to standard as possible to keep the costs down. The tank can be
constructed with up to four 1" drains and four or six 3/4" returns
connected to 3/4" centipede return fittings for directional control.
With this setup, the flow rate should max out at 1200 GPH--yes?
<Okay... bear in mind this is "real" flow rate versus an estimated
value. In actual practice almost no pump installations yield near rated
flow rates per interval>
Now the $6,400 question(s): Is this flow
rate appropriate for a clam tank? Too much? Too little?
<About right.
Most Tridacnid species, individuals will put up with, even enjoy greater
water movement... as long as it's not directly blasting on them
continuously>
Any wisdom you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
Your Web site has been a valuable resource for me in properly planning
this tank. Thank you all!
<Glad to hear this. Bob Fenner>
Jeff
Circulation Situation
Greetings
<Scott F. tonight>
Sorry to
ask so many questions but I am therefore I ask.
<I am here- therefore
I answer!>
I have a Supreme Mag drive 950 in my 55 gallon sump which
is in the basement as my return to the main tank which is a 75 gallon it
travels vertically 6 feet the return line that is. I have checked the
flow from the overflow back to the sump as 690 gph. I used a 5 gallon
bucket to test I got one gallon per just under five seconds. first
question is . Is this sufficient? second I was thinking about building a
somewhat closed loop around the tank with tees in all four corners with
flexible ball joints to point flow where it is needed will the mag drive
950 still be ok or should I put a dedicated pump for my closed loop.
<I like the idea of a dedicated pump for a closed loop. See Anthony's
Book of Coral Propagation for some nice info. on circulation.>
I of
course would prefer to utilize the 950. By the way I am in the terrible
diatom phase with my tank (brown patches on everything) rock, glass,
powerheads. hope it doesn't last long :(
<This, too, shall pass.
Maintain good water quality, stay on top of changes, feed carefully,
test...you'll be fine!>
Thanks for everything, keep up the great
service you provide to all us green horns. John S.
<Thanks John, I
learn more every day thanks to fine folks like you!> Water
Turnover Question
Hello again!
<Hi there! Scott F. with you
tonight>
I've been reading through your pages and pages and pages of
FAQs and I must say its very impressive, I especially like the stocking
recommendations, fewer fish then most people want but I agree 100%! On
to the point. My tank is a 125 Gallon, with about 20 gallons of sump I
would guess. I am using a RIO 2500, hooked to a spray bar. How much do I
want to turn over the tank for fish only? The return is coming through a
spray bar I made myself, could this be limiting how much return the pump
gives me as well? Do I need more flow??? How much should I be turning
over a fish only tank? Most info I find is for reefs.
<Not sure of
the output of the Rio- but I like to shoot for 10 turns an hour, even
for FOWLR>
Also, I am planning to upgrade my SeaLife 75 skimmer to a
AquaC 180. Is it easy to inject ozone into this AquaC skimmer? It has no
venturi and no air stone, I want to be sure it will work before I spend
the $350 on it! It was a huge headache and hassle making the ozone work
with the SeaLife skimmer, I would rather avoid that in the future, I
would of course buy the carbon outlet collection cup for the AquaC, just
curious how you get the ozone INTO it!
<Do contact Jason Kim at Aqua
C. He is a great guy, and will be glad to talk you through the process.
They have a great web site, too, which may provide some help>
Also I
asked about my Redox last time I wrote you guys, and you said let it be
and let it do its thing. Its been 2 weeks now, and my Redox is now up to
148 (from 135), in the last 3 days it seems to be going up about 2-3 a
day.
Is this normal? Does it really take this long to raise?
<A
rising Redox is always good. How slow or fast depends upon the
conditions within the tank>
I have also, since then removed all my
sponges and filter pads from the tank, thinking they were leaching mass
amounts of nitrates into the tank. The prefilter in the overflow box had
never (in 2 years) been replaced, I just kept rinsing it. I really can't
figure out why my water quality isn't that good. I just purchased a
Nitrate test kit, so I will test when I get home, I suspect they will be
high.
<Good move removing the pads. Do test the nitrate regularly>
Oh yah, Ammonia is .2 (I think because the tank sat empty for a week
then I added a fish a week ago at least I hope that's why) Nitrite is 0,
pH is 8.4, salinity is 1.024, and the temp. sits steady at about 81.7
(though it was down to 80.6 this morning so I just bought another
heater, 1 200watt isn't enough for this tank).
<Ammonia is a sign
that something is amiss! And you probably should shoot for around 500
total watts of heaters>
Attached are some pictures of the setup, any
info you can give to help me provide a healthier living space for my
poor puffer and future residence would be great. I plan to add 2 or 3
more fish to the porcupine puffer, some type of large angel (juvenile
though), maybe a wrasse, and something else nice but not to huge. Below
is a list of what the pictures are of.
Which reminds me! Last thing
:) I've had the puffer for 2 weeks almost, and he never comes out when
the lights are on. All day and evening when the tank lights are on, he
sits under a rock and hardly moves (sleeping), then as soon as the
lights go off, out he comes...even at night he's not real active, he
pretty much just paces up an down in the corner of the tank, but he does
eat (krill with Kent garlic Xtreme added to it) at night when he is out!
Any idea what's up with this? He twitches and spins sometimes too, but
not a lot.
<Well, the ammonia reading might have something to do with
it...>
125gal_salt = tank as a whole
Overflow = Overflow box in
the tank, not sure on its GPH, its an older AMiracle overflow.
Spraybar_return = my spray bar with a RIO 2500 on the other end, I
believe its 1/2" PVC with small holes drilled in it, not 100% sure on
size of the PVC though.
Sump1 = my main sump w/ bioballs and heater
in it. Later added a 2nd sump
to hold more water and spread things
out (AquaC will go here later I think) Sump2 = My addition sump, and
Ozonator (useless pic other then shows the skimmers to small)
Collection Cup = My homemade collection cup, holds carbon to filter
ozone from the air (1 hour at home depot and $5)
Sump2_Inside =
Useful picture, shows my skimmer, RIO 2500 return (has an elbow on the
end for when the water level gets low), Also homemade carbon filter for
ozone skimmer water return, and a sponge that does nothing, its only 1/4
under water, I may just take it out tonight it may be a nitrate bed??
<probably, if not cleaned>
Sump1_Inside = Heater, a Minijet powerhead
just moving water so it doesn't stagnate on the surface like it was, my
ORP Redox meter hangs over the overflow drain tube.
Overflow2 and
Overflow3 = My older style AMiracle overflow box from the outside, with
sponge removed. Any idea how many GPH this does? Will I need a new one
if I upgrade to a bigger return pump? or a second one?
<Check with
the manufacturer to see how much flow it can handle, and modify as
needed>
Thanks in advance for your help! You guys are great!!
<And
have fun! Good Luck!>
Mark Circulation
Hi, again. I
have a 75 gallon reef tank, with a Yellow Tang and a few other fish. For
circulation I have 2 Rio 2100's (I know, but I've had them for a while)
<I know they have a bad rap, but I also know of quite a few people that
have them and have never had a problem. I would not recommend someone go
out and buy them, but I would not tell you to throw them away either.>
on one side, at the top and bottom of the tank and shooting sideways,
and a Rio 2100 on the other, also shooting sideways. In the middle, at
the top and back of the tank, I have a 300 gph powerhead shooting out
towards the front.
<Ballpark of a little under 2400 gph total.>
Flow seems good for the corals (they seem happy), but the fish seem to
swim upstream quite a bit. I don't think they're struggling, but I'm
wondering if I should lower the flow, or change it somehow.
<I would
leave it alone. I don't think it is anywhere as powerful as the ocean.>
I don't want to have to replace the pumps I already have if I don't have
to, and I don't know if I should lower the flow, since the corals seem
quite satisfied. Is it too much, or do I just need to distribute it
better, or...? Thanks for the incredible help you provide reef
enthusiasts. :) Arthur
<You are welcome. -Steven Pro> Re:
Flow/Circulation
Recap - 75 gallon tall reef tank, 2 Rio 2100's
pushing water from one side, 1 Rio 2100 pushing from the other, 300 gph
powerhead pushing from middle back of tank forward. Corals like it, but
the fish seem perturbed. I didn't think that I have too much flow (and
based on your response to my last e-mail, neither do you),
<Correct>
but the fish (a powder blue tang and a clown fish) spend much of the day
"leaning" into the current, looking like they're swimming upstream. They
seem to seek out the pockets of the tank where current is strong.
<If
they seek out these places, why would you think they do not like it?
There are obviously some low flow areas they could escape to if they
wished.>
The clownfish especially looks overwhelmed, I guess because
he's so small. They look uncomfortable. Is this an issue, or can I relax
and let them be? Arthur
<Please relax. This is nothing for them.
-Steven Pro> Circulation, aeration, tank top, cc stars...
>Thank you so much, but how do I size the additional powerheads?
><A
couple of hundred GPH will be fine. Do arrange for the intakes to have a
"pin-ball" piece of wet-dry media in their intakes to prevent animals
being sucked in... and place these pumps in a fashion, where
>they
can be easily removed for service, cleaning. Bob Fenner>
Okay, Bob,
more questions. I ordered 2 powerheads that arrived tonight and I
finally sat down and read your book and Michael Paletta's book.
Loved
them both, and I finally feel more capable of asking some more "right"
questions.
<Hmm, okay>
1. I got a Hagen 201 and a Powersweep 214.
Aren't the strainers that are installed on them enough to keep critters
out? I can't for the life of me even figure out where I would insert a
bioball into these, since the strainers both protrude.
<Yes, these
are good powerheads... that come with their own sufficient strainers...
the above note is to emphasize the importance of having same... not to
remove, leave off...>
2. I have always been concerned with the
aeration of my water. Will the Caulerpa in my refugium/sump be adding
enough O2 back in to mitigate my concerns?
<It will indeed help...
especially if constantly illuminated, or alternatively the sump is lit
during "lights off" on your main/display tank>
I redirected my sump
return about a year ago so that thetank surface is getting a little
rippled from it. Is that all enough, or should I utilize the venturi air
intake on the Hagen powerhead?
Would the resulting bubbles be a
problem for my current or future petfish and invertebrates?
<You can
test for dissolved oxygen with kits, meters... but would just observe
livestock here... all likely fine>
3. When I upgraded my lighting to
a SmartLite, I removed my tank top and the lens on the light to allow
the greatest light transmittance.
This leaves some large gaps between
the light and the tank rim where things might escape. After reading your
book, I am concerned that might happen to me in the future. I am also
worried about water splashing on the bulbs. I don't have a hood and the
SmartLite canopy (do I havethose backwards?) is resting on the center
tank support. It has beenthis way for about a year and everything has
gone well (except for increased evaporation loss). Should I stop this
foolhardiness and put the top back on my tank? I don't have any corals
yet.
<I would leave all as is... and not worry>
4. I have a very
large and a very puny chocolate chip starfish. They used to be the same
size and one shrank and the other grew exponentially. This monster is
now about 5 inches wide. I only have some damsels now as far as fish are
concerned, but I am trying to plan my future stocking plan. I'm pretty
sure I will have to remove the damsels because they have been allowed to
rule the roost for too long and are very large and probably pretty
aggressive. Will the starfish have to go back to the store too? My
children and their friends love the starfish.
<I would leave them be
as well.>
5. I successfully battled off a terrible turf algae
invasion a couple of years ago, mostly by introducing a small cleanup
crew to the tank.
The live rock is not very interesting now, except
for a couple of fan worms and some other wormy looking stuff and I do
have coralline algae, although it does not cover the rock yet. I am
going to get more on top of things like calcium. I don't supplement and
so the tank is only replenished by small frequent water changes. Should
I add some new pieces of live rock for interest sake or leave well
enough alone? I guess the starfish is probably eating a lot off of the
rock too...
<Would likely add a bit more live rock... new livestock
you plan on will change many dynamics, reveal other life going forward.>
I am getting more responsible and conscientious every day. Even if my
tank takes forever to get to where I want it, my next trip to the local
Monterey Bay Aquarium will be great now that I feel more informed.
<Ahh, the pleasure my friend>
Thanks so much.
Linda Swenberg
<Be chatting, sharing. Bob Fenner> Return pump and powerheads
Hello again!
I have finally started to acquire the equipment to set
up a FOWLR aquarium where I also want to add some soft corals and polyps
over time. I thank you for your previous help and I have a few more
questions.
I now have a 75gal reef-ready tank with an Oceanic
PowerCompact light (110W, w. Coralife white and actinic blue bulbs). I
intend to put a 20 gal sump underneath it, probably an Oceanic Sump
model 1 (it will be difficult to put something bigger because of the
doors/supports of the cabinet: Oceanic cherry oak cabinet). I realize I
may need more light for the corals but that will have to wait for now. I
do intend to buy around 90 lbs of live rock after I get the skimmer and
sump.
Here are my questions:
1.) I will get an AquaC EV120 filter
with a Mag-Drive 5 pump. I could get a Dolphin DP-560 pump for the same
price. Do you favor one over the other? I have only seen the Mag Drive
pumps locally.
<Both are fine.>
2.) My second inquiry has to do
with the return pump. I believe I need about 750 gph through the sump
plus some additional powerheads in the tank to turn the water over as
much as possible. At the same time I want to balance the water flow to
the sump to not make the system too noisy. I am planning to set up a
Durso style standpipe (see
http://www.rl180reef.com/pages/standpipe/standpipe_frame.htm for a
description or http://home.att.net/~rstockman/overflow.htm for a more
compact modification) that my LFS says really reduces the gurgling noise
from the water falling down into the RR overflow box (if you know of
other good methods, please let me know).
<This one is about ideal>
However, I have heard that if you get too big a return pump, noise will
still be a problem. Is a Mag-Drive 9.5 too much?
<Yes... by about
twice the flow-rate... Depending on what you want to achieve in this
sump arrangement (definitely not a refugium at this turnover rate), a
good five, six volumes of the main system per hour is fine>
The pump
will be in the sump under the tank and will have to push an almost 5 ft.
water column. I saw a chart at marinedepot.com that says the Mag-Drive
9.5 will push 750 gph with a 5 ft column. Others have recommended to
just use a Mag-Drive 5 or 7 (250 or 420 gph at 5 ft). What would you
recommend?
<!, the same>
Less flow through the sump but more in
powerheads? More flow through the sump?
<The former>
3.) I am
planning to use a few powerheads in the tank. Maxi Jets seem fairly
inexpensive at marinedepot.com. Is it better to put in say 4 MaxiJet 400
@ 106 gph ea, or 2 (or even 4) MaxiJet 1200 @ 295 gph ea?
<Four
smaller>
I am concerned about too much flow from a single nozzle. Is
this a problem?
<Yes, can be... animals, non-life getting sucked-up,
blown about>
I don't have a good gut feeling yet for what these flow
rates mean in terms of turbulence in the tank.
<You will>
Thanks
for your help. I trust your judgment more than most of my LFSs.
<Trust only your own ultimately. We are all humans. Bob Fenner>
Lots of Questions - Jason breaks down
A) I have a MTC Pro 6500S
Skimmer - it is about 2 feet high.
It is powered by a Rena 400.
Is
this powerful enough. <<I should hope so. Two feet is quite the reaction
chamber.>>
Is there some sort of conversion chart to figure this
stuff out, or do we just have to ask the experts - like you. <<no
conversion chart too many variables, mostly as all skimmers are not
created equal.>>
I am a little confused on this - do people use
powerheads to power their Skimmers??? <<some people do - certainly one
of my three skimmers has a powerhead running it.>>
Can you recommend
1 for me??? <<that skimmer is running with a Rio 800. Some people like
maxi-jets. You could ask this question on the WetWebDiscussion Forum
where you could get easily 10 opinions on this:
http://talk.wetwebfotos.com/ >>
B) When I read that you should
have 10x (is this correct for an avg reef tank) the turn over of your
tank size per hour. <<It's a good number to shoot for, yes but not worth
killing yourself to accomplish>>
1) Do they mean 72 gallons - 20
gallons LR - LS = 50 gallons??? <<no, it means 72g + ?g in the sump = X
total system gallons.>>
2) Do you count your return pump from sump
600 gph plus the power heads you have in the tank itself 3x200 gph???
<<depends on who you ask. I would cast my vote behind total flow -
powerheads + circulation pumps.>>
(I would have 1200 total.) <<are
you sure you're getting 600gph at the head in the tank. Many pumps that
have a rated output of X drop to X minus something as you raise the
output away from the pump [head feet]. You may only be getting 400gph.
But in any case - what does it look like in the tank?>>
C) I am
having problems with gravity flow from my overflow box.
What causes
the bubbles to be created when it is released from the tube into the
water. The tube is about 1 in underwater and the tube is a 25/34 mm
Eheim - I think from what I have read the hole is 1in on the overflow.
- I have read that the overflow can't handle the GPH from the pump. Mine
is Rio 2500 it pumps the water 4 ft to top of tank. <<ahh yes, Rio 2500
pumps approximately 520 gph at 4' according to Rio.>> The tubes are the
wrong size, or that there is a vortex that is created in all of these
overflows. <<Much talk of an overflow that you didn't name - who makes
the overflow?>>
I have take of the pre filter pad on the skimmer to
try increase flow rate, Put a small tube down the line to increase flow
rate and stop the vortex, I have added some foam pads, I have prayed.
These don't seem to make a big difference. <<you've confused me - we're
talking about skimmers now? In any case, not sure any of those things
would have helped if things were designed to work to a certain limit
that you are now exceeding (?) - very hard to tell. Perhaps some more
detail on these pieces/parts.>>
The only thing that has worked is to
lower the power output from the Rio - but I think that works b/c less
flow equals less bubbles created b/c less water is flowing through the
tubes. The neg is less filtration :(
<<are you strictly concerned
about the gurgling noise from the overflow? If this is the case, do try
to get used to it and let you tank enjoy the increased flow.>>
I have
checked your site thoroughly and have not found any definite answer on
these - sorry If I am asking questions you have already answered. What
can I do stop this problem I don't want to 'kill' the bubbles after they
are created I just don't want them created at all.
<<in the overflow
process? almost impossible to avoid some, is mostly attributed to the
design of the overflow, which... you didn't tell me who makes it so I'm
really not sure which direction to point you in.>>
Thanks for making
life a little easier for all of us :)
Brad
<<Well thank you.
Cheers, J -- >> Follow-up on Lots of Questions - Jason tries
again
Thanks for the reply JC
<<No problem...>>
-A is
regarding a skimmer.
I wanted to know if the Rena makes enough
bubbles for the skimmer. <<I think so, yes.>>
Please tell me what
aerator you recommend besides Rena and what strength it should be
approx. <<Check with the manufacturer for your skimmer.>>
Can it be
too strong??? - What would happen with too many bubbles in the
skimmer??? <<Don't think it could be too strong.>>
-B is regarding
powerheads - ah... <<did I answer that one well enough for you?>>
-C
is regarding Overflow.
The overflow is the one that comes with the
All-Glass Tank 72 bow front- I assume it is a All-glass. <<Ahh ok, the
built-in overflow - I have one of these myself in my 75. >>
2 tubes
in over flow - 1 return and 1 intake. The intake is about 16 inches tall
- There is a solid white pipe that is 12in long then continuing a clear
pipe with square holes all around it for the next 4in. <<yes - very
familiar>> The water level is about a 1/2in above the white pipe.
<<<are you strictly concerned about the gurgling noise from the
overflow>>>
I could care less about this. <<ok>>
I just want to
get rid of the bubbles and use the overflow to its max. <<what bubbles?
I'm not sure I understand where those are coming from...>>
I have
told you the make of the overflow in hopes you can help me further and
answer the questions you were unable to b/c you did not know the make
<<right, well now you know I have the same overflow so I can probably
answer quite a few questions about it.>>
D - New question Do you know
of a powerhead that has a foot print of 4in x 5in that is as powerful as
the Rio 2500. That is all the space I have in my sump and I don't have
the means/know-how to cut acrylic.
<<Can't think of one... you should
browse the web and some online fish stores and see what you can find.>>
Thanks again.
Brad
<<You are welcome. Cheers, J -- >>
Water turns
A brief question regarding water turnover in a
15-gallon young (7 weeks old) reef aquarium. I have a CPR skimmer (Rio
600 pump) and a Via Aqua pump. Between the two I figure I'm getting
about 280 gallons/hour total flow. I added a P. Ocellaris to this (main
tank) yesterday. Last night when I noticed he looked stressed and was
hiding in the corner. I turned both pumps off and this morning he looks
better. Are these pumps providing too much by way of water turnover in
my tank? Would I be better off removing the Via Aqua-- or alternating
between the two?
Thanks,
Greg
<This is a bunch of water
movement for such a small system, but the Clownfish's behavior likely
has little to do with it. Water movement, "changes" in the wild are
often many times this factor. The hiding, hanging in a corner or bottom
is mainly due to being moved, placed in new circumstances. You could
practice alternating the pumps to see if this suits. Bob Fenner>
Question (Rate per what function?)
I just bought a 150 gallon
tank and I want a fish only saltwater aquarium I just don't know how
many gallons per hour I need for this to work. Please email me back.
Thanks for your time.
Chris
<What? GPH for? Please read here re
marine water circulation: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarfaqs.htm and
the linked files beyond.
Bob Fenner> Water flow
Hi
Bob & everyone:
<cheers>
I have 2 questions about my 60 gallon
reef tank. The first one is about water flow. I have a Fluval pump
filter circulation of 225 gallons per hour. The Fluval is theoretically
for a 100 gallon tank. I have one of those "bubbler" things that I plug
in that looks like a waterfall.
<still not enough water flow for this
tank by itself... 4 to 10X tank volume per hour please>
I have about
2and 1/2" inches substrate - broken coral, shells, etc. and it really
gets dirty under there.
<because it is too course. Weekly siphoning
is needed with this type of media>
I also have a CPR backpack which
is very effective for 6 fish, crabs, live rock, etc., but I feel that
the substrate should get more aerated.
<agreed>
I stir it up
every couple of days and worry that the dust that comes out of it will
make my fish sick, if not now, later.
<not to worry about>
Should
I make the switch to aragonite or could a use a powerhead or two to get
water circulating through the substrate?
<you need MUCH more water
flow here please>
If I put a powerhead in there, how powerful should
it be.
<two pumps 300gph or bigger would be very nice for this
marine tank>
I just bought one which circulates 40 gallons per hour
and that just doesn't seem to be nearly enough .
<agreed>
It is a
Rio 50. I should add that my fish are small, so I don't want to blow
them out of the tank, either.
<pump size does not do this... improper
direction does. Place the 2 PH in opposition so they converge for random
turbulent flow rather than sever linear/laminar flow>
I am down to 2
mithrax crabs now and am happy to know, thanks to you all, that they
don't start eating fish until their bodies are 2" across. As ever,
thanks for all your help!! Connie Cavan
<best regards, Anthony>
Bulkhead Drilling
Hello Steven,
Recently I bought a used 100
gallon acrylic tank and my intention is to make it FOWLR. Right now it
has one corner over flow with a 1 inch bulkhead at the bottom of the
tank. From what I've been reading (FAQ's from www.wetwebmedia.com), your
suggestion was to increase water turning rate meaning drilling more
bulkheads.
<Correct>
Would you please let me know what's the good
turning rate for my tank and how many more bulkheads should I drill to
accomplish that rate.
<This depends on what in particular you wish to
keep, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-20 times the tank volume
per hour. I would use at least three 1" bulkheads in a 100.>
Also the
suggest location of bulkheads (important). BTW, I'm using
plenum so I
prefer not to drill at bottom.
<I drill most of my holes near the
top. You can see a very nice diagram excerpted out of Anthony Calfo's
"Book of Coral Propagation" here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm>
As always, thank you
very much for your help and advise.
Regards, Dung Ngo
<You are
welcome. -Steven Pro> Re: Flow in a reef tank
Hi, I'm
assuming the best way to do this would be to split the return with an
adapter from the pump to opposite ends of the tank?
<or with a
manifold that has 4-6 nozzles (adjustable or on a complete loop to even
volume per nozzle)>
Does it make a difference if I split return close
to the return pump or wait longer?
<I'd wait for the tee or manifold
tee at the top of the display>
And if I am using 3/4 inch return
tubing for one line, should they both be split at 3/4 or two at 1/2 inch
each?
<requires some experimentation... all dependant on pump volume
at head>
Thanks for all your help thus far--it has been great! Keep
up the great job! Mike
<thanks kindly, Anthony> Flow in a
reef tank
Hi Again,
Should the current in a reef tank (75
gallon) be clockwise or counter-clockwise? Does it make a difference?
Thanks, Mike
<neither are favorable... random turbulent flow or surge
flow is best. Have opposing outlets converge upon each other for a nice
random dynamic pattern (as in back left and back right discharge aimed
to opposing front left and front left corners). For a 75 gallon reef
tank you will need a minimum of 800 gph water flow... likely though that
will not be enough for most species. Aim for 200o-3000gph for most tanks
(more for sps corals and gorgonians). Best regards, Anthony>
Circulation
Is a 1200 gph external pump excessive for a 75 g tank
with 50 lbs of live rock? I wanted to point two pvc outputs at each end
of the tank towards each other to create ocean-like turbulence ( I am
thinking of the last time I swam in the ocean myself. My setup now is
with Rios 200 x 3 and this must be puny compared to a real reef). Also,
I don't want the intrusion and heat from more powerful Rios. I have
experienced a few coral deaths in the past from rapid infections (I
assume they are bacteria because the previously healthy specimens
disintegrate and dissolve within 24-36 hours). Any suggestions for a
good pump. Thanks in advance.
>>
Rarely is circulation "too
much"... and I agree with your philosophy... from direct experience. At
1200 gph you could have a good submersible (my fave choice is an Eheim),
or a good external magnetic drive (am still a big fan of the Little
Giant MD-SC series here... Iwakis produce too much heat...) Bob Fenner
Re: Filter Flow Rate Rules of Thumb...
Bob, thank you for your
opinion on the number of fish I already have in my tank. I have taken
heed!!! Therefore, I shall resist any more until the proper time.
<Ahh, this is best>
You also advised me on the type of canister
filter that was a good one. Actually, I had been looking at the Eheim
filter Model 2026 (which can be seen at www.petwarehouse.com), and this
filter claims to have a flow rate of 250 gph. My question: is there a
rule of thumb which, based on the size of your aquarium, would dictate
the minimum flow rate of a filter??
<Hmm, "the more the merrier"...
a few times the tank volume per hour (3,4-10 depending on the types of
livestock, arrangement of plumbing...>
Do you think that this
particular filter would be suitable for my reef tank??
<Yes, a very
fine product>
Also, I have been watching for your books at the
bookstore. Has the newest one been released yet??
<The Fishwatcher's
Guide... is available through a few places... including through our
site: www.WetWebMedia.com... check under/over the links to "Books for
Sale".>
Thank you for your valued time & knowledge!!!
Pat Marren
<Glad to be help. Bob Fenner> Circulation
Hey Bob,
I
just started cycling my tank three days ago (60 gallon tank, 80lbs. live
sand, 90 lbs. live rock - pre-cured). Two questions: 1.) My tank
absolutely reeks! I think it must be the rise in ammonia, though the
smell makes me think something else might be amiss. Do I need to do a
big water change?
<Very likely yes... I would... do you have test
kits... for pH, alkalinity, calcium levels? Do change the water in any
case... and add some activated carbon in your filter flow path>
Will
this go away by itself anytime soon?
<Not soon enough...>
2.) I'm
confused about how much aeration I need in the tank -- I have decent
circulation (app. 550 gallons per hour circulated).
Does the water
surface need to be agitated?
<Yes... a dissolved oxygen test... or
Redox would aid you here>
Should I have the powerheads release air
bubbles as well?
<Not necessarily... but the surface should be
disrupted.>
Aesthetically, I wouldn't prefer it. A necessity, though?
<Well put... Please read through the "Circulation" section of the Marine
Index on the www.WetWebMedia.com site for more here. Bob Fenner>
Many
thanks!
Javier Pump question
Hi Bob (or Lorenzo),<Bob
currently>
Here I am almost ready to put my whole system together,
then put live rock in and get it going. Here is the set up:
55gal
tank ---> overflow box ---> 3ft. tall 4.5in diameter protein skimmer
(in sump - 35gal total, but only about 20gals of water in the sump) --->
through baffles ----> refugium ----> more baffles ----> pump? ----> back
into 55gal tank.
My question is,....how do I know what size pump to
get? Doesn't it have to equal (or close to equal) the amount of gallons
per hour the overflow box is sucking out of the tank? If so, then how do
I measure this amount? with a gallon jug and a stop watch?
<A
possibility. Please see the "Pumps, pumping" section on the Pond Index
part of the www.WetWebMedia.com site here>
Please help me help my
tank not to spit up all over my floor.
Thanks,
Jana
p.s. Good
idea: I was thinking,.... since we aquarist are forbidden to use soap or
soap like products on our equipment, wouldn't baking soda be a good
thing to use to scrub out hard stains?
<Yes, as long as you're
careful not to scratch soft materials>
My mom always taught me to use
baking soda on hard to remove 'gunk' on dishes and pans, and Bob Fenner
always taught me to add a few teaspoons of baking soda a week on my tank
to keep pH levels above 8.0. So wouldn't using baking soda to clean your
equipment be a good idea, considering most of the baking soda is washed
off with warm water after scrubbing?
<Yes>
Just an idea, please
pass it on to others if you like it would be alright to do this.
Later,
Jana
<Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner> Re: pump
question
Bob,
Do you mean my system needs to turn over 10
times my tanks volume per HOUR?
<Yes... about this rate>
Whew!
That's' a lot! Also with a 55 gal main tank and a 35 gal sump with
about 20 gals of water actually in it, this is a total of 75 gals?
<Actually, the calculated rate is ten times the system volume. That is,
about 550 gph>
(I do include my sump tank amount when figuring out
total volume, Hu?)
I read over the articles on the pond section.
I
feel like my brain is frying.
<We ought to start a club>
I thought
I was almost finished.
Wrong!
I am off to search some more for
more clarity.
Jana
<Ah, tis pleasurable. The water movement in
most parts of the seas is much greater... by far. Bob Fenner> Re:
Pump and refugium and circulation in general question
Thanks, a
few more quickie questions though, (still about refugiums). When I
explained to you that my refugium set up will have more then 1 sump, you
said the other one could be used for live rock, and sand bed. You also
mentioned this to someone named Rick in the FAQs who is setting up a 807
gallon reef tank( I could only DREAM of something like that!!). Is this
because you're assuming the refugium will be housing some type of fish,
or such, because mine will only be for macroalgae, and I assumed the LR,
sandbed, crabs, and snails etc...., and the second strictly for total
volume, or is there a reason I should put the LR, and such in the other
sump away from the macroalgae.
<The difference (in location, use of
pumps) is almost certainly for limiting the flow rate through the
refugium itself. Two, three or so actual volumes per hour is generally
ideal for such sumps... and most folks "recirculation" is more than
this... often much more>
If so, then what exactly goes together in
which sump, and why, because I did not see any mention of separating
these from one another. The only thing I saw which could relate is the
mention of plenums, or barriers, which I thought was just to break up
the flow a bit?
<Mmm, much to say here... the plenums serve several
possible/real functions... the barriers as well... but not the same...
Don't get me wrong, but you would do well to "read books"... not try to
gain complete answers in these sorts of formats of learning...>
Also
will everything not eventually get mixed together by the current going
through the bulkheads?
<Hmm, yes, no... Bypass water from some parts
of the same system will eventually be mixed... but not quickly if the
"refugium" circulation is more limited... Bob Fenner>
Greg N
Montreal, Canada.
P.S. Can I use crushed coral in the refugium, ( I
have lots left over from my tank setup) or does it have to be sand, or
is the layering of the two with screens between better in this case?
<Crushed coral is fine.> "Hey bob" (Water movement)
I
have a quick question for you. I have a 40gallon reef tank, the
inhabitants are 1, 4inch blue super crocea clam, 1-green-tipped
frogspawn, and various xenia colonies. Here's the big question: I have a
aqua-clear 402 powerhead on the left side of the tank giving current
toward the opposite side of the tank, and I also have a little Rio
powerhead 800,on the opposite side of the tank going towards the other
powerhead current. My question: is this too much circulation for a 40,
gallon reef tank? does it bother my corals? please help.
<What you
list shouldn't be too much water movement... but the only way to tell is
by observing your livestock. Does your Xeniid colonies and frogspawn
coral open up? You're likely fine here. Bob Fenner>
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