Coral Beauty question: Injury\Aggression\Poor Water Quality\Overstocking 6\24\2009 Hi WWM, <Hi Ian,> I bought a coral beauty angelfish 4 days ago from a local fish store. When I bought it, it looked fine and had very beautiful colors. I asked if it was eating and they told me it was eating mysis shrimp. <OK, Remember it is always better to verify a fish is eating before purchase.> Today, I saw that on the left side of the face, there was a little orange color around the top of the eye and under the eye and towards the mouth. I have attached a picture of another coral beauty I found on the Internet that has the same identical problem I am describing. <I see this> The only other fish in the tank is a pair of ORA semi-Picasso clownfish. <Two Clownfish and a Coral Beauty.> The coral beauty hides in little hideaways and caves in the live rock. Could this mark be a scrape from the rock? <Or from the Clownfish> These fish are in a 29 gallon all glass system with a carbon filter and a CoralLife needle wheel super protein skimmer. <29 Gallons is too small for two Clownfish and a Coral Beauty. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm > The ammonia of the tank is 0 ppm. The nitrites are .2 ppm. The nitrates are 0 ppm. The pH level is 8.3. <Nitrites need to be 0. You tank is still not fully cycled. Read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/no2probfaqs.htm > Other information of the tank is that there is 20 lbs of live sand and 20 lbs of live Fiji rock. The coral beauty eats normally and swims normally. There are no invertebrates or corals. What do you think is this mark? <Three possible causes. either poor water quality, or physical injury caused by scraping against the rock, or caused by the clownfish.> Thank you, Ian <MikeV>

New Coral beauty, hlth.  – 06/29/08
Hello to everyone in the WWM Crew I would like to start off by complimenting all of you on your outstanding site!! The best one I've been on yet! And although I've been more of a lurker I think its time I asked for myself lol. Well for starters I recently purchased a coral beauty from my LFS and everything has been going great my water is perfect! And my fish are getting along great oh my bad..... my inhabitants include one neon goby, a percula clown fish, two skunk cleaner shrimp, one peppermint shrimp, two small blue legged hermits, and a couple bristleworms. Sadly they are all cramped in a 28 gallon aquarium which thankfully I will be upgrading by Christmas!
<Let us hope your Centropyge lives till then... this is much too small a world>
Anyways today I came home and as I was feeding the gang I noticed that my beauty had a strange reddish oval smack dab in the middle of his/her forehead and I was just wondering what this may-be and what you might do in this situation.?
<Likely an "owee" con/subsequent with "running into something"... again, environmental really>
Thank you in advance for any light you could shed on the situation and once again congratulations on an awesome and helpful sight
God bless.
Eli
<Ah, yes... superstition. Please see WWM re infectious diseases of marine fishes... I'd trade the C. bispinosus in till you have adequate habitat for it. BobF>

Coral Beauty & Sea Urchin Demise – 06/02/08
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
It has been awhile since I have written with a question.
<<Welcome back>>
Recently my 125 gallon saltwater tank has been taking a few casualties.
<<Uh oh>>
Last week I lost my long tentacle sea anemone which I was expecting,
<<…?>>
and today I found two more losses.
<<…!>>
First I lost a short spine sea urchin. I don't know why it happened my pencil tip seems fine and there is plenty of algae in the tank to graze on. The urchin was introduced about eight months ago, before the tank had lights, and algae, and it suffered and lost a lot of spines. After I got the lights it improved, at least to my eyes. Is it possible it never recovered from this?
<<Maybe… But I find these creatures often require more than just “algae” to survive (variable among species)…especially the nuisance alga found in hobbyist’s tanks. In my experience, a good supply of live rock with plenty of calcareous alga and other emergent life upon which the Urchin can graze is essential for long-term health>>
The second body pulled from the tank was sadly my coral beauty. I bought this about two months ago but had never seen it eat.
<<This is not an uncommon event. This species often suffers badly during collection/transportation>>
The first month it was very secretive, but lately it was out a lot more. I assume it was living off algae in the tank since it seemed to have a full stomach and was in good health.
<<It was likely browsing the live rock, yes>>
I think since it never took to the foods I offered (tropical marine flake, freeze dried bloodworms, freeze dried plankton, marine-one pellets, and frozen squid), and that it only lived off algae for two months, it died because of nutrition deficiency, sound probable?
<<A probability, yes…as a secondary result of trauma/stress/inability to adapt…and leading to its refusal of the foods offered. Speaking of which…I notice three what I consider “essential” food items missing from your list. These would be frozen glass worms (great for enticing finicky eaters), frozen mysis shrimp (another good enticement and over good food item), and New Life Spectrum pellets (and amazing food supplement for ALL your fishes)>>
Your input is greatly appreciated.
<<Happy to share. EricR>>
 

Coral Beauty very sick  11/26/07
Hi all... this site is a great source of information and is appreciated beyond measure!
I have searched the site and every other resource I can find without success. For the last two weeks our Coral Beauty has been obviously stricken with something and I can't seem to identify it. I'm afraid she will die. We have a 75 gallon with a 2 percula clowns, a wrasse,
<What species?>
Banggai cardinal, blue tang, star fish, cleaner shrimp and the coral beauty. The first sign was when we turned on the tank light and noticed she was practically white.
<This species and many others do "blanch" during darkened hours... and often when frightened/stressed>
There are no signs of Ich or anything else that I can see on her. We have had her for a year now and has never faded color. She always eats the mysis shrimp and flake when fed but now she doesn't eat anything I put in. I presume she must be nibbling on the live rock to still be here.
<Of a certainty, yes>
She lingers on the bottom in the back corner swimming in circles, her tail is rather frayed and getting worse. Often I find her mouth to the gravel and vertical, this can be for 20 minutes at a time! She will lay against rocks motionless for stretches of time
as well, then she brings herself back around and starts swimming in circles again. She also seems to be pumping into things more
<Bad sign>
and at times looks very twitchy. I noticed periodically her breathing is labored which is when she tends to go motionless, like she is just warn out. I've talked with several LFS and no one seems to know what the problem could be. The water tests fine, the temp is stable and the other fish show no sign of anything visibly wrong. Internal parasite maybe?
<Possibly>
Old age? I am at a loss and fear daily that she will die. Any thoughts on what could be wrong with her?
Your time and thoughts are greatly appreciated!
Lisa
<Reads more like a nutritional deficiency syndrome. I would try adding/soaking the preferred foods with a supplement... Like Micro-Vit or Selcon... these also often act as appetite stimulants. Bob Fenner>

Re: Coral Beauty very sick  11/26/07
Thank you so much for your quick response Bob! I will add the supplements this evening and hope it helps.
Much appreciated!
Lisa
<Welcome my friend. BobF>

Sick Coral Beauty 10/14/07
Greetings,
<Salutations>
I've had a coral beauty in quarantine for 2 weeks with good results for treating cryptocaryon with Cupramine (.4 - .5 ppm).? Fish ate well and all signs of cryptocaryon are gone.? After removing the Cupramine using a Polyfilter, I noticed the fish's breathing rate increased somewhat.? Checked ammonia and found .25 ppm (not good I know).? I think I was just feeding too much for the size of the QT, so I did a 50% water change and cut back on feeding amount and ammonia returned to 0 within a day.? However, the fish's breathing rate is still elevated and I have noticed? the fish's vent (nice word for anatomical part) has swollen and waste is white and sometimes stringy.? Fish has also stopped eating and is fairly listless.? All this in less than a 24 hour period, although I had noticed strange looking waste several days before.? Swollen vent seems to change size.? Suspecting either internal parasite or internal bacterial infection.? Which should I treat and how?? What is the prognosis for this condition?? Thanks for a quick response as I am not sure what to do here.
<The observed behavior might be due to the copper exposure alone, general stress, the ammonia... with good care, this fish should recover. Very important that its RBC, hemocyte count not be further impugned... Perhaps a peremptory pH adjusted dip and placement in a stable system is best here. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Greg

Bubbles and Lips, Skimmers and Fish Injury 5/8/07
Good Morning everyone!
<Good morning to you.>
I have two questions that probably could be answered on the chat forums -- but I can't seem to register right now.  I hope that gets fixed soon.  <Me too.>   
I was fiddling with my CPR Bak Pak protein skimmer this weekend.  It hangs directly off the back of my display tank and the little pump that came with it seems to be failing.  The original pump was a Rio 600 RVT which seemed to do an OK job, but I was never happy with the open face of it. <Standard pump that comes with it, but does not have the greatest reputation for reliability.>  Nothing ever got sucked in but I've always been concerned, so I got a Maxijet 1200 as a replacement.  This pump solves the open face problem, but the air intake tubing just being jammed in the filter screen seems a bit cheap to me.   So anyway, I was experimenting with using an air pump to force air into the intake of the pump rather than allowing venturi action and I got good results by regulating how much air was sent in ... and it was my intention to pump the rest of the air into a regular air stone in the main tank ... until I realized that I rarely if ever see air bubbles, air stones etc. in marine tanks.  So what I'm asking is if there are technical reasons why people don't put air bubbles directly into the display tank?  <A couple of reasons, one is that they get clogged very quickly especially with all the life in a marine system.  Secondly the popping bubbles make quite a mess with salt spray.  The first effects you more here, you will need to change your airstone frequently here.>  
Second question is about a new acquisition, a Coral Beauty that is alone in a quarantine tank.   He eats very well and is very VERY active, spending his entire day swimming back and forth right in front of the glass-- maybe even against the glass.  He refuses to use either of the PVC caves I've provided (one white PVC the other black ABS) and prefers to sleep wedged into the suction cups from where the heater used to be (heater was moved to prevent burned CB problems).    But his upper lip is a like a thick white stripe.   It doesn't look like any sort of growth or covering like a fungus ... as much as it looks perhaps a tiny bit swollen and perhaps rubbed.  From all that swimming in front of the glass, maybe?  Does this suggest any action other than just further observation?  <Sounds like a physical trauma, maybe a shipping injury or even a burn from the heater.  Either way just keep up the water quality to prevent infection and observe.  I'm guessing with a little time this will heal.>
Thanks again!!!!
<Welcome>
<Chris>

- Coral Beauty Eye Cataracts? 7/27/06 -
Good Morning Gentlemen.
<Good morning.>
My husband purchased (for me) a previously owned 75g reef tank around May 7th, 2006 and one of it's occupants is a Coral Beauty Angel.  The previous owners had this tank for 3 or 4 years so I'm sure on the age of the Coral Beauty but I noticed that she had small white marks (for lack of a better description) on the lower part of her eye or eyelids when we got her.  She seems very healthy.  She eats well, is very active and interacts well with the other fish. However, I've noticed that these "marks" are slowly getting larger.  Could they be cataracts? <They could be, but it's difficult to be certain. If the white areas seem to be growing, do keep a lookout to make sure that it's not just cloudy - cloudy eyes are typically a reaction to water quality issues. You may want to run a test or two and prepare a water change, just in case.>
Any assistance would be appreciated.
Louise
<Cheers, J -- >

Angelfish and white spot, spare the formalin   7/7/06
I purchased a Coral Beauty Angelfish 2 weeks ago.  He is in QT.  Yesterday, I saw what looked like a white pimple on the front of his pectoral fin.  This morning the white spot is gone but his fin is frayed.  I thought he might have ich but I am not sure since it was one spot and was gone today.  He is eating normally. Should I treat with Formalin or observe longer?
<The latter. Is not likely parasitic/pathogenic... the formalin is far likely a source of trouble than help>
  If I treat with Formalin, do I just do a dip or do I also treat the QT?  Or is there something else I need to do?  
I have looked through FAQ's but still was not sure what I should do.
Thanks much for your help,
Jana Gibbs
<I would not use the formalin here. Too toxic, too stressful to be catching, manipulating this Centropyge. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty HLLE?    7/1/06
Hi, question for you.
<Hello John>
I currently have a mid size coral beauty in my quarantine system.  I purchase him 16 days ago from a LFS.  While in the QT he has developed a
small patch (approx the size of a match head) on his L side near his lateral line.  The area appears to be pale in nature and irregularly circular.  At
first I thought he may have just bumped against something in the tank but now watching it over the past 15 days.  It appears to have grown ever so
slightly.  Also yesterday I noticed a very tiny pale patch on the R side of his head.  Is this the beginning of HLLE?
<Possibly.>
I feed sparsely (given that he is in a QT) brine shrimp and Omega sea veggie flakes once a day each.  
<A poor diet such as this can certainly aid in further development of HLLE, if that is indeed what it is.>
The QT is a 15 gal long w/AquaClear 200 filter and carbon pouch.  Airstone w/pump, heater, small powerhead and PVC piping.   1 gal water is changed daily.  If
this is HLLE should I attempt to treat it before placing him in my main aquarium or place move him in after he finishes out his QT time figuring the
better diet and water quality available in my larger system will fix him.
<You've just answered your own question here.  Better vitamin (Selcon, Vita-Chem) enriched diet and excellent water quality are the main factors in reversing HLLE.  There is no medication, in my opinion, that will effectively reverse this.  Do read FAQ's on this also.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/hllefaqs.htm>
My main system is a 65 gal w/20gal sump, live rock.  Thanks for your comments,     
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
John

Coral Beauty's eye and Naso Tang
Bob, this is the first time I am writing you. I have been reading your FAQ on your website and found it very informative. 
<Good to hear>
I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you can help me out with. I recently upgraded my 50 gallon aquarium to a 125 gallon aquarium. I initially had a Dragon Wrasse, Tomato Clown, Coral Beauty, and a small Blue Angel. Everyone was doing fine after I moved them into the 125 gallon aquarium and after a couple of weeks I went out and bought a small Naso Tang. I started noticing that one of my Coral Beauty's eyes was starting to get cloudy. I didn't want to catch it and put it into a quarantine tank right away because I thought that maybe the Coral Beauty had gotten scratched or something when I netted it and moved it into the 125 so I just left it alone and kept a close eye on it to see if it would just heal on it's own.
<Doubt if the Naso introduction had anything to do with the cloudy eye... suspect the cause is what you state... and would have done the same...>
I didn't want to stress it out any more especially since I had just gotten done moving it a couple of weeks earlier plus the Coral beauty was swimming around normally and actively eating as usual so I didn't think that it was infected with anything.
While I was keeping on eye on the Coral Beauty I was tending to the new Naso Tang and trying to get it to eat. For the first few days it would pretty much hind behind rocks only coming out if I threw in some brine shrimp in there.
<Typical... they're actually big algae eaters in the wild>
That seemed to be the only thing it was interested in, pretty much ignoring everything else I tried to feed it. After it would eat a little brine shrimp, it would just go back and hide behind some live rock.
Initially, I thought it was just shy and not yet accustomed to the tank and
was expecting it to become more active when it felt more comfortable. That hasn't happened yet. What I have noticed though is that his fins have
started to look like someone has been nipping on them. I have been observing the fish for quite some time and I haven't noticed any signs of any of my other fish being aggressive towards the Tang.
<Likely the fraying is from being caught, moved, lack of nutrition...>
I have finally moved my Coral Beauty into my hospital tank because it has
been about a week and her eye has gotten worse. It is not only cloudy but
now has swelled up and gotten very big. I'm not sure what this is and what
might have caused it or how to treat it. 
<Still believe the root cause is mechanical trauma... a possible infection, secondary.>
I have also moved my Naso Tang into a hospital tank because I now think that it might have tail rot or something. I haven't noticed any of my fish picking on him so I don't know what else would cause his fin to look like it has been getting nipped. His lack of swimming around has made me think that it is sick but I am not sure what he has and thus have no idea on how to treat him. 
<I would probably have left the Naso in the main/display tank and hoped that it would have "rallied"... otherwise, a percentage don't adapt to captive conditions (more than half)... and the quarantine system is likely compromised by such an active tankmate... and this fish will unlikely (re)sume eating there.>
If there is any advice you can give I would greatly appreciate it. I really liked my Coral Beauty and would have to lose her and I had high expectations of seeing the Naso Tang owning the upper part of my 125 gallon aquarium since all my other fish hang out pretty much in the bottom half of the tank. Thank you. Gianluca
<I would wait yet another week on the Coral Beauty to see if the eye will resolve and start to show signs of curing (the cloudiness will dissolve first, but the swelling may take several weeks. The Naso... I would likely place it back in the main tank (be careful of the sharp processes on caudal peduncle) and hope for the best (You do have live rock with some algal material growing on it I trust... in both the display and quarantine systems). If the eye continues to dis-improve I would likely daub it with a cotton-swab and a mercury-based medicant (mercurochrome, Merthiolate, Merbromin) that is used on children. I would wait a good week on this decision as I state... and weigh the damage of handling against the hope of repair of the eye. If the eye appears smooth on its surface, wait.
Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty trouble (Bob's turn)
Bob,
I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill,
frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas? 
<Perhaps "just shock" from collection, being moved about... some Centropyge species are consistently like this... I would either move this animal prematurely (as in not waiting for the whole two weeks quarantine interval) to a stable live-rock equipped tank (through a freshwater bath process), or place some thoroughly cured LR in the twenty with it (as food source and to stabilize water quality)>
My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know
what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy
<Please read through the parts of WetWebMedia.com re "Quarantine", "Dips/Baths", and the genus Centropyge for more background. Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty trouble (Anthony's turn)
Bob,
<Bob just got back from Indonesia and I'm praying to the gods of long term vision that he has not returned with a thong tan. Anthony Calfo in your service>
I have a Coral Beauty I just purchased Saturday and placed in a 20 gallon quarantine system. 
<good job!>
The fish seemed healthy at the store; bright colors, active, clear eyes, nice plump shape, etc. 
<for future reference too... play Bob's "deposit game" with them by placing money if possible down to hold the fish and let it sit on import for at least a week if not two. A quick turn around is otherwise hard on a fish>
I have it in a 20 gallon long by itself with a set of barnacles for cover, a heater, thermometer, and Tetratec 300 filter seeded (for 4 weeks) with bacteria from my 55 gallon tank. I have tried to get it to eat everything I have, frozen krill, frozen plankton, frozen Formula Two, flake Formula Two, and Nori. It won't touch a speck of food and now has very cloudy eyes and is not very active. Any ideas? 
<the no eating is not a surprise and not that much to worry about. The cloudy eyes is an issue. Do medicate with Furan based drugs to play it safe. Look for secondary symptoms of parasites too>
My water parameters are 78 degrees, 0 NH3, NO2, NO3, and 1.023 salinity. I have the fluorescent light that came with the tank on for twelve hours a day. I don't know what could be the problem so I don't know
what to do to try to help this beautiful fish. 
<consider a FW dip if parasites seem evident. Else the antibiotics for at least 5 days. Find an algae covered piece of rock for it to nibble on too>
Please help by suggesting what could be wrong and what I should do. Thanks again, Amy
<best regards, Anthony>

Coral Beauty
Hello Everyone,
Hope all is well. I am in the process of saving a coral beauty from the freezer at the LFS. It is missing an eye and cannot be sold, so I will be taking it home and trying to rehabilitate it.
<Good for you.>
One eye looks to be gone and is kind of white and slightly fuzzy, not a big nasty fuzzy spot, but kind of fleshy, like when you just lose your eye. It will be going into a quarantine tank
<Excellent!>
and I was wondering if I should add anything to the water to help the healing process.
<1 tablespoon of Epsom salt per 5 gallons of water and a medicated food for bacterial infections would be great.>
The tank will be a 10 gallon with a Penguin 125 back filter for circulation, I will not be adding the carbon insert. Should I add some medication, or wait and see if she heals on her own.
<I would wait, but be prepared to add a broad spectrum antibiotic if it does not respond to or eat the medicated food.>
I know the odds are not in her favor, but she has a better chance in my med tank than she does in the freezer. Thanks a lot, and best regards, Gage
<Good luck to you and your fish. -Steven Pro>

New Coral Beauty Angelfish
I brought home a coral beauty a day or two ago and I have him quarantined.
<Good idea.>
He has not eaten any Mysis shrimp as of yet so he has me a bit worried. I was doing some reading and I came across this: "Dwarf angels are susceptible to the common parasitic scourges of ich (Cryptocaryon), and velvet disease (Amyloodinium), and unfortunately sensitive to conventional treatment (copper with or w/o formalin formulations). " My angel doesn't appear to have a disease but I do maintain a small amount of copper in my tank to remove any disease on his body or anything that could infect my main tank. He has no problems other than not eating. My quarantine tank doesn't quite have the macro/micro algae growth that my main tank does so I was hoping he would get by on Mysis until introduction into the main tank.
Should I be worried, remove the copper by doing a massive water change, or is his not eating just from being new? I've always read not to be worried if your fish doesn't eat for a day or two. but in my own short-lived personal experience I've never had a fish not eat after the first 24 hours. (notice I prefaced it with short-lived.)
<I always recommend that people quarantine their new fish and perform daily, small water changes (10% everyday for the two to three weeks of quarantine. This helps to promote the fish's immune system and helps to remove any parasites. I would start doing this now and allow the copper levels to diminish. -Steven Pro>
thanks for the help!!

Coral Beauty Dip/bath
Hi Guys!
<Howdy>
I am bringing home a Coral Beauty from the LFS on Monday. I am very excited and want everything to go well with this beautiful fish and my other fishes. LFS sold me Paraguard for my dip, I asked for Methylene Blue as per your suggestion but this is what they had. Is this safe, I have not opened the bottle yet? 
<Safe, yes... but not the same general purpose>
Also this is my first time at attempting the dip/bath and am quite uneasy about it. Q&A says to start with system water, than add fresh water and Methylene Blue. Do I have it right. I thought about a half gallon of my system water and fresh water, and use the directions off the Paraguard to see how much to add.
I have another question that does not pertain to the dip/bath so will send another e-mail, so you can place them in their proper Q&A.
<Okay>
Thank you in advance for your advice. Sincerely, Lori
<Be chatting, Bob Fenner>

Coral Beauty
Currently I have a Coral Beauty that I have acquired about a week and a half ago.  Two to three days after, I noticed that the fish had ich and so I had treated it with something the fish store had recommended.  Looks like the ich went away within a day or two after putting in the medication in the tank.  Now its eyes look kind of bulging and cloudy.  I'm still treating the tank for the ich but what would you recommend for the eyes?
<It is probably a secondary infection of some sort. When you have both eyes bulging and cloudy, it is most likely the disease known as (no surprise here) Popeye. This malady is usually caused by bacteria, and usually is indicative of water conditions which need to be improved. This can also be brought on by parasites, but is less likely.  There is even the outside possibility that the "treatment" has caused this problem- but not likely. Treatment can be as simple as improving water quality in the treatment tank (you are treating in a separate aquarium, right? If not- you should be!), or, in many cases, treating with medication such as Maracyn. I never advise the casual "dumping" of medication into the tank-sometimes this does more harm than good! Do check the FAQs on disease on the WetWebMedia.Com site and verify if the fish does indeed have this disease, then take appropriate action. You should be able to save this fish with prompt treatment. Good luck! Scott F.>
Is there something I can do to save the fish? Thanks, Mary Gonzalez

Coral Beauty Woes
Hello crew member of the day.
<Scott F. this evening>
I have several  questions regarding a Coral Beauty I just lost.  I have a 55 gallon FOWLR with a Fluval 304, a protein skimmer, two cleaner shrimp, three fish (purple Pseudochromis, percula clown, and tomato clown, {and a late Coral Beauty}) and a few snails. My water parameters are pH8.3, temp 79, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10 ppm, Alk 10,salinity 1.023.
<All sound okay>
I bought the Coral Beauty a few weeks ago and kept it in a 20 gallon long quarantine tank by itself with a three pound piece of cured live rock for grazing.  I had no treatment in the Q-tank but the fish looked healthy with no spots and no trouble breathing and was eating the Formula two food I was feeding it like a monster. I put him in my main tank after two weeks of quarantine and he looked healthy for the first few days.
<I'm very happy that you quarantine your new arrivals! But please make it a minimum of 3 weeks from now on, okay? This allows times for many diseases to manifest themselves before getting into your main system>
This past Thursday, I noticed one small white spot pop up on his side.  I watched him very closely and he did not change his behavior and no more spots arose so I thought no problem that this may just be a piece of sand or dead skin. Yesterday, my cleaner shrimp jumped on the Coral Beauty and the fish opened his gills and mouth and the shrimp helped him for about ten minutes. The
fish actually laid down in the sand while the shrimp worked.  Today, the Coral Beauty would not eat and would just drift over on its side. After observing this, I put Coppersafe in the bare 20 gallon quarantine tank and moved the Coral Beauty to try and help but I was too late.  I was shocked how quickly this Coral Beauty went down with no white spots showing up on the exterior of the fish.  I was cautious about premature treating for one spot and now feel terrible. Do you think I can conclude this was a work of Ich with the fish having one white dot show up and the fact that the cleaner shrimp spent so much time in the fishes gills?
<Very hard to say from here, but your keen observation of the cleaning process leads me to believe it was some sort of parasitic malady. As you can see, diseases can manifest themselves even after a couple of weeks of quarantine, and don't always show dramatic signs. The reason for his death could have been something else entirely, for all we know. I think you did a great job of taking prompt action with him when he looked ill. Sometimes, despite our best efforts, a fish can die all to quickly?>
I also have a few more related questions.  Now, my quarantine tank has 20 gallons of water treated with Coppersafe this morning and had a fish I presume died from Ich in it for several hours. If I go buy another fish tomorrow, add it to the quarantine tank, and let it stay there for 28 days, can I assume it will not be able to contract Ick and will be safe to add to my main tank?  
<Good question, but please don't assume that a new fish cannot become ill in this tank. After every use, whether medication is used or not, you should break down the quarantine tank and disinfect it and any equipment used with it. Then you can set it up again. Remember, a quarantine tank need not be a permanent feature. Simply set it up when you need it.>
Also, should I move my three fish from my 55 gallon tank that was shared with the sick Coral Beauty to the quarantine tank for preventive treatment with copper since it is already set up, or should I observe their behavior and move them only if needed?
<Another excellent question! If you are convinced that ich was the cause of the Coral Beauty's death, then you would be wise to isolate your remaining fish in the quarantine tank. However, I would observe them in quarantine rather than just medicate. Copper is effective, but it can be hard on fish; don't use it unless absolutely necessary. I'd break down and reset the quarantine tank, then place the remaining fish in it for observation. The main system will go "fallow", free of potential hosts for the ich parasite for 3-4 weeks, and the parasite population (if present) will most likely "crash" during that time for lack of hosts. Better to err on the side of caution, IMO- ich can be tough to get out of your tank once it establishes a foothold.>
Is it true that as long as they were healthy when I added the Coral Beauty and I do not stress them now, they will not be attacked by Ick?
<Likely, but not guaranteed- hence my recommendation to quarantine/observe them.>
IF I buy another Coral Beauty, should I quarantine them with copper as a preventative?
<I would not use copper as a preventative. I like the idea of properly executed freshwater dips and observation for 3 weeks. Medicate if necessary.>
I also have a question about a Yellow Tang.  I would love to buy a yellow tang but am confused about how to quarantine them.  In The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, Bob says for the yellow tang just do a freshwater dip with no copper or medications.  Does this mean no quarantine at all or do a freshwater dip and then quarantine for several weeks with no treatment and then go the main display tank?
<No- he does mean quarantine the fish- just don't use copper as a preventative. Use the dip in conjunction with quarantine.>
Can you use copper with the Yellow tang as a preventative? Is that bad news?
<As above. Tangs have digestive fauna which can be damaged by prolonged exposure to copper, which is why Bob recommends only using it if the fish is actually ill. If the digestive fauna are damaged severely enough, the fish could die. Tangs, as you know, are big eaters and need to graze continuously.>
Thanks for all your help.  I just don't want to lose any more fish! Amy
<Your questions, observations, and attitude are outstanding! Just make the minor changes that I suggested and you should be fine! Don't let the loss of the Coral Beauty discourage you. Learn all that you can from this sad episode, and you will continue to be a successful aquarist! Good luck!  Scott F.>

Quarantine Quandary
Hi WWM crew,
<Hi there! Scott F. with you tonight!>
Sorry to write again so soon. But here is the thing. I just had a very pretty Coral Beauty die on me in my QT.
<Must be a lot of that going around with Coral Beauties these days...>
I feel I may have killed it but wonder if it might have been the reverse. The tank was started over---here is what I did:
I put a new sponge (Whisper) in my main tank for 3 weeks. Then I put in maybe 6 gals of new water and added 4 gals of water (maybe more) from the main tank.
<Good, although you could have used 100% tank water, too>
The main tank is doing nicely aside from some nasty algae
<This, too, shall pass>
, but everything is thriving, and it has been going for over a year. The QT sat around like this for awhile.
<Remember, a QT is not a permanent feature...You break it down when not in use>
Anyway on to yesterday:
I had the fish just about two weeks.  I had just done a water change (1 gal), this is in a ten gal. This was the second water change. The water change is from my main tank. During the water change I pulled some PVC around and the fish swam about briefly. It looked healthy but has been rather shy. Yesterday sometime or other the fish died.
<Bummer...>
I was rather busy yesterday and I think pulled the dead fish out today.
<Not the best practice, but we all have busy lives to lead....understandable>
Post mortem revealed no burning, spots or marks of any kind-- darn
healthiest looking dead fish I have ever seen. When the fish was alive I don't remember seeing heavily clamped fins or trouble breathing. I turned the Whisper off last night.
Today I did a water test on the Qt and found the following rather
alarming figures. I must say maybe I have gotten a little unconscientious on the water tests.
<Oops>
Both tanks are usually almost boringly stable. Even the Qt. But anyway here are the test results: temp 7.8; S.G. 1.023; ph 8.2; ammonia .6 !; nitrite 1 ! and nitrate 10.
<Don't like that ammonia level. or the nitrite level..>
To me this looks like a cycle or maybe a recycle. Could a dead fish have caused this?
<In a small tank with minimal filtration, it's entirely possible...>
Or could the fish have lived that long in water that bad? I know a
damsel might but this was a Coral beauty. Or was the tank just too unestablished? (BTW, this doesn't sound too dissimilar to how I have started up a QT in the past.) I can't say I have not had unexplained deaths in the past. Would I see no distress in a fish with this water quality or lack thereof?
<You would most likely see distress of some sort...Again, I'd opt to break down the QT between uses...Do test the water during the QT period...Hard to be sure exactly what it was that killed the fish...It could have been the ammonia and nitrite levels, if they were detectible prior to the fish's death...Or- it could have been poor collection practices (entirely beyond your control), etc. Don't be discouraged...Hang in there! Regards, Scott F>
BTW, I did look in the FAQs but didn't find anything quite like this
mentioned.
Also what to do at this point with it? Big water change or let the tank
just cycle itself out.
Only biomedia is the sponge in the whisper.
Thanks.
--des

Re: Coral Beauty trouble
Bob,
Thanks for the advice yesterday, your advice was comforting. Could you tell me what I should feed the Coral Beauty once he is back to health? I know it will eat algae off of my live rock but could you tell me if it will eat
meaty foods or if it needs Nori and/or Formula Two. Is the Coral Beauty
like the Yellow Tang in the way of having getting HLLE if not given enough
greens?
<Not so susceptible to this largely nutritional complaint. This Dwarf Angel does eat a great deal of algae and assorted sponges, ascidians (hence the use of live rock in their systems), and do learn to take many types of prepared and frozen foods in captivity. Please read through the Centropyge Angel sections posted on WWM including the FAQs files, starting here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/Centropyge/index.htm
Bob Fenner>
Thanks again, Amy

Coral Beauty Sick.
Hey Bob
<<Hi Javier>>
I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank running for over a year now and have not had any problems after a rough start. The tank has now stabilized and have not lost any fish in 9 months. The levels are good and I do bi-weekly water changes, keeping the temp @ 81 degrees and salinity at 1.020. I have 70 lbs of live rock and sand, a canister filter and protein skimmer. 
<<What are the test results, this might help.>>
The my stock consist of a yellow tang, a maroon clown, a coral beauty and some small fish (Chromis/Firefish). I feed them brine shrimp (frozen & live), formula 2 flakes, Wardley's marine flake food, Sera iodine enriched granulated food and Nutrafin Max food to keep their diet varied. About two days ago I noticed that my Coral Beauty was acting kind of strange just hovering near the LR without much movement. (Very unlike him). But I went about my routine of feeding them. Normally at feeding time all the fish dart around and head up to the surface and a frenzy takes place once I drop the food in. Everything went as expected except for the Coral Beauty. He did seem to be interested in going after the food, but once near it he just went for it, looked at it and just swam away. 
Later that night I noticed him in the bottom right of the tank under some rock covering just chilling. (Having a private party). Having my tank for awhile I know each of my fish's behavior at feeding time, at night, w/light on or off, when frightened, during a territory dispute. and where each turns in for the night. Yesterday he was in the same spot at the bottom right of the tank under the LR covering pointing up and tail down. He looks like he has some white film forming on his mouth/lips? A fungus or bacteria? 
<<Likely bacteria, but could be fungus. Please see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/infectio.htm>>
Please help. I did add some Melafix to the tank. Does this stuff really work, a waste of money or bad idea? What is your recommendation? Setting up a hospital tank for quarantine or let him ride it out and not stress him more? Javier
<<Melafix is likely not necessary or useful. These problems are the result of poor water quality, nutrition, overall environment. I suggest water changes, green herbivorous foods daily (live rock with algae/microalgae is ideal). Please do follow and read the link above and also go to the FAQ's. Best of luck, Craig>> 

Re: Coral Beauty Sick.
Thanks,
<<You're always welcome Javier.>>
I'll check the water parameters again. I did one a week ago and they were normal. None of the other fish seem to be bothered or show signs of illness. I do a water change every two weeks. How much of a water change to you recommend? (Currently 75 lbs of LR & LS). So in volume I may have about 35 gallons?
<<Depends on load, type of inhabitants. You have quite a few fish so likely somewhere in the 25-30% range, but this is dependent on many factors, husbandry, feeding, etc. I would assume your volume to be 40 gal.>>
On a separate note, I notice strange creature in my tank. I have never seem it before in my tank and have not added any LR or LS since my initial set-up, which was cured. It is the size and of a quarter, flat and somewhat of a circular shape. It is black in color and moves like a slug or snail with two small tentacles/feelers. In the center of the body it has a small white slit, cat eye in look. Once I hit the lights if moved to the dark under the live rock.
<<Hard to tell w/o a photo, and maybe not then either! Likely a snail, Trochus, Nudibranch, or limpid. Try this: http://www.tcnj.edu/~maughme2/faq.htm Yours, Craig>>

Coral Beauty and dropsy
Whitney Alan Gray wrote:
>Hello all,
<Hi, MikeD here>
>     Long time reader, first time writer here today.  My question
>concerns a Coral Beauty with what I believe to be Dropsy.  No other
>livestock appear to be affected.  I have a 1.5 year old 46 Gal tank
>with 50 lbs of live rock, a Hot Magnum, Magnum 350, asst powerheads, a
>sea clone skimmer, a UV Sterilizer, and a 288W PC fixture.  As far as
>stocking goes, I've got a yellow tang, a coral beauty, a lawnmower
>blenny, an ocellaris clown, a royal Gramma and a Niger trigger.<Here's part of your problem, with the tank being severely overcrowded, usually a major precursor for problems such as yours>  I also
>have a feather duster and a Condylactis anemone.  Water parameters are
>fine, with nitrates being at about 20ppm.
>      The story with the coral beauty goes as follows:  About a week
>ago, I noticed a small white speck of what appeared to be fungus on the
>coral beauty's side, and a small slit in it's caudal fin.  After
>several days, the slit had gotten larger, and the fungus was now the
>size of a large grain of salt.  With this, I decided to medicate (day1)
>using Melafix and PimaFix.<These are primarily additives for recent injuries and not true medications, a waste of time as well in cases such as yours.>  I turned off my protein skimmer at this
>time.  Two days later (day 3)  I had noticed no improvement in the fin
>or fungus, and noticed that one side of its body was swollen, with
>protruding scales.  At this point, I was still running three week old
>carbon in the HOT magnum, so I removed the Carbon, continued using Mela
>and PimaFix, and started using Maracyn two.<My suggestion here would be to run both Maracyn and Maracyn II to cover any eventuality as far as gram positive and negative bacteria>  Today (day5),  the coral
>beauty is still very swollen, and its mouth appears to be very red.  It
>is also breathing very heavily (no redness of gills that I can see) and
>the speck and slit in tail are still present.  I figured the combo of
>meds I was using would have knocked out the small speck of fungus I
>saw,  but after about four days and no progress, I decided to cut the
>magnum 350 (which still had filter media that may be adsorbing the
>meds.)  I still left the HOT magnum and powerheads running.  Within two
>hours of cutting the Magnum 350 and dosing the meds, the water was
>cloudy, and my yellow tang was also breathing heavily.  I looked
>around, and found my coral beauty near death, on its side at the bottom
>of the tank.  I immediately cut the lights, turned on the skimmer and
>magnum 350, and re-instated carbon into the HOT magnum.  Two hours
>later, the coral beauty is swimming around fine (except for the swollen
>body, labored breathing, etc- but hey, its not dead!)  Several  other
>observations:  my UV sterilizer has been on the whole time<this is a piece of equipment that often to usually is NOT what people think it is>, no other
>fish are affected, the coral beauty swims around fine, doesn't hide,
>and eats fine.  Lately (before speck appeared), the anemone has been
>moving around, spewing brown stuff (I thought/think its poop though),
>and randomly deflating.  Since I've turned the skimmer back on, it
>hasn't really removed anything from the water, despite being turned off
>for 5 days.  I also don't think the swelling occurred until I dosed
>with Mela/PimaFix either.  The left side of my fish looks like a
>pinecone, and it appeared almost overnight.  Do you think the
>Mela/PimaFix could have caused this (the dropsy)?<Caused it, no, but it certainly didn't help and lulled you into wasting valuable time during which you could have been using the correct regimen of antibiotics>  Do you think it is
>dropsy?<Actually, it sounds like a bacterial infection aggravated by overcrowding and probably improper diet....remember, dropsy is a symptom, not a disease.>  I'm afraid to medicate after what happened today.  I know I
>need to act fast, but what should I do?<Again, since you have the Maracyn2, I'd add Maracyn 1 but in a hospital or quarantine tank.....you're extremely lucky that medicating your display tank hasn't backfired and caused a total collapse of the system>  I thought the meds were
>ineffective or being adsorbed my some filter media in the magnum 350
>(like a phosphate remover,  and another substance by sea Chem (not
>carbon or Zeolite) that I cant think of the name of ... Purigen
>maybe?)<I'd be VERY cautious about all of these panaceas you seem drawn to as they can do serious harm, particularly when used in tandem and regularly.  My basic advice in this area is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and then fix ONLY what IS broke!>so I shut it off and look what happened.  I thought the anemone
>could have released some toxin into the water (on some of its
>tentacles, there appear to be constrictions, like in a sausage), but if
>that were the case, wouldn't all fish be affected and wouldn't my
>skimmer be going crazy?<Yes, it would, but anemones don't release toxins into the water. What you were seeing was what you thought it was, an anemone version of a bowel movement. BTW I'd NEVER use products like you describe with anemones in the tank>  Sorry about the long e-mail, but I wanted you
>to know everything so you could give the best advice possible.  I've
>never seen anything like this, what should I do to save him?<No need for apologies...try the Maracyn 1 & 2 in a Q tank, improve the diet and you should have a good chance at success.>
>Thanks,
>Whit

White Blotch on Coral Beauty and Cloudy Water after Feeding (7/29/04)
Hi all-
<Hello There! Just Leslie on duty for the crew this morning.>
I'm a newbie with saltwater tanks, so please bear with me. <No problem at all I was a newbie once and still am in many areas.>   We've got a 55 gallon tank - started up in May.  Started it off with 6 damsels - 4 survived and are still in the tank (domino, blue devil, humbug, yellow tail).  Lucky 4, they are pretty tough little fish with the personalities to go with it. .....I am sure the LFS recommended cycling your tank with live fish but for future reference many, folks are using the fishless cycling methods these days. Cycling is very hard on the fish and it is considered cruel by many.>
Water has been tested by local marine aquarium store and they said it looks fine. <Great!>
Went through the pioneer algae stage and survived, now getting some green algae (hair?) - cleaning it out weekly by stirring up and filtering out.  
<Take a look at this article and related FAQs for information on controlling nuisance algae in your tank:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm >
Added a Longhorn Cowfish and Checkerboard Hawkfish at the beginning of July - all doing great.
<That's great. Do you realize that your Longhorn Cowfish can attain a size of 18 inches and will need a much bigger aquarium in the future? >
Here is an article on your Cowfish..... http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm
Added Diamond Watchman Goby and Coral Beauty Angel this past weekend.
<Much better choices for a 55g>
On Monday I noticed a white blotch on the side of the Coral Beauty -- I believe it is a fungus.
<It's hard to say what is on your Coral Beauty, true fungal infections are not very common. A white blotch,  depending on what it looks like could be a number of  things.......Lymphocystis is one thing that comes to mind, but there are many diseases that have white specks, spots, patches and areas of pigment loss.  This is why quarantining new fish for a period of 4 to 6 weeks, prior to placing them into your display tank with your other fish that are doing well, is essential. >
I called the store and they said I could bring the fish back (but I don't want to) or I could try using some peroxide on the fish.  Is this the best way to treat the fungus?  They said it isn't contagious... I hope not.  I've applied the peroxide to the spot and it seemed like a few scales came off... is this okay?  
< I have never used peroxide directly on a wound on a fish. Mike D. treats cloudy eyes with an 11 to 12 minute dip in a diluted solution of Hydrogen Peroxide. He uses of  7cc of 3% peroxide in 1 liter of tank water. It apparently works very well. There is also a recent article on the use of peroxide for treating Marine Velvet......  http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-07/sp/feature/index.htm .  I don't think losing a few scales is to serious but you should keep a close eye on the area for any signs of infection or worsening of the condition. Wound Control is an excellent product that is used topically for any loss of skin/scale integrity.
This article should be helpful.....
The Three Sets of Factors that Determine Livestock Health and FAQs:  http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm >
My second question is about my water.  It clouds up after I've fed the fish and stays cloudy for a few hours and then clears... is this normal?  
<Yes, I believe so.>
Do I need a better filter (using Penguin 330 double wheel filter and a Top Fin 40)?  
< A protein skimmer is a good idea in a marine tank of your size. Live rock would also be a good addition if you do not already have it. >
The store says my water is fine and think that the fish are just stirring things up when eating... I'm just not sure.
<That sounds right on.>
Thanks for the help in advance. Denise
<Your most welcome, Leslie>

Popeye on Coral Beauty Angel  11/15/05
Greetings!
<Salutations>
Great Site!!!!
<Thank you>
Yesterday morning, I noticed my Coral Beauty Angel had a case of Popeye (in just one eye). As the day progressed, it became larger. Thanks to your site, I found that it must be an injury and I can treat with Epsom Salt, which I did yesterday evening @ 1 Tbsp per 5 gallons. This morning the eye looks worse yet. It's eye is very large and now because he's been flicking his eye off of the live rock, he's damaging it.
<Mmmm...>
Is the flicking because the Popeye is as irritating as it looks, or is there some other problem that I'm not aware of.
<Hard to tell... but magnesium sulfate does take a while (a few days generally) to effect positive, visible change>
Is there anything else I can do besides wait and pray for the best? Any info would be greatly appreciated
Brandy Cook
<If the system is otherwise stable, optimized, I would just leave the fish in it, along with the Epsom, and hope. Bob Fenner> 

Sick Coral Beauty  9/19/05
Hi Guys
<How goes it?>
I kinda feel guilty having to bother you, but I have a Coral Beauty in need.
<Not a problem, that's why we volunteer :)> I have a 20 gallon tank (a little small) with two protein skimmers, both for 60 gallon tanks and I'm using carbon and Poly Filter with 20-25% water changes weekly.
<Sounds good>
The water is 78 F, S.G. 1.024 , ph 8.2 , ammonia  0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-5.
<All good>
The animals are 1-Coral Beauty (Sunrise), 1-Black Clown (Dab), 1-Banded Shrimp (Aunt Tennay), 1-Turbo Snail (Wetfoot). I've had them for a little more than a year. I was feeding Brine shrimp with Spirulina almost exclusively (my mistake I think).
<Not nearly varied enough, and brine shrimp do not provide much nutritional value>
I'm now feeding seaweed (red and green), Spectrum dry, an omnivorous and an Angel formula with sponge in it.
<Great!>
Sunrise has fading color to the point of spottiness in places, lightly tattered fins and has done some twitching and scraping, is losing his appetite and hides too much now. The quarantine tank is ready but I can't figure out if I should use it or what I would do if I did.
<Keep up the varied diet...try to get a hold of some live Mysid shrimp (www.Reed Mariculture.com is a great source of live foods of all types) to feed Sunrise as well.  Don't make the move to a quarantine tank until you can positively identify a disease.  This will hopefully work itself out.  Everything else you're doing is fine, so for now it's just wait and see>
Thanks for any help you can offer.
<Anytime>
James
<Michael Maddox>

Bicolor angel/disease?   3/4/06
Hi Bob <James today>
I'm a huge fan and love your book. <Bob thanks you.>  I have a 125g FOWLR tank that's been running for almost three months now.  My bicolor angel just started
to rub his face against some of the LR yesterday and has no physical signs of any parasites. <May be too early to see.>  He's  looks good and has been eating fine
though.   Do you think this is the beginning of ICH ? <Don't know> What should I do right now ? <I'd watch closely and at first sign of disease transfer to QT.> Leave him there or give him a dip and QT for several weeks? I was thinking of doing a five minute Methylene blue  dip and QT with
Cupramine for two weeks. <I really don't like treating fish unless I know for sure that they are infected.  Was the fish in QT before going into the display?>  In the main tank I also have: 1 blue throat trigger, 2 Clarkiis, 3 Chromis
Your help is highly appreciated.   It's a tough hobby, <Not so tough, as long as we don't make it tough.>  buts it's people like you who keep us going !
thanks <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Peter