Green Clown Goby: RIP - 7/6/09
Hi Crew,
<Hello Sam, Lynn here this afternoon>
Well, my green clown goby (green with red stripes) died this morning.
<I’m so sorry. Those are beautiful, personality-filled little fish.>
I had him over 6 years but have no clue how old he was when I got him. I did not see anything wrong with him so maybe it was just old age, but I do not know how long they can last in captivity.
<Well, six years is definitely up there. I’ve heard of some hobbyists keeping various gobies between six to eight years, but none over ten. The longest I've heard of anyone keeping a green clown goby/Gobiodon histrio (until now) is five years. According to a 2005 study done by V. Hernaman and P. L. Munday, this species can live "at least 4 years" in the wild, and that's mainly because they're a more cryptic species, hiding in and around corals. Apparently other less cryptic, coral-dwelling species tend to have considerably shorter lives. Bottom line is that your little fish, at at least 6 years, was definitely on the plus side as far as lifespan. For more information on Goby lifespans, see the above-mentioned study here: http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps2005/290/m290p207.pdf >
I bought a Favites about 6 weeks ago and that became his new perch.
<Bet he was pretty perched there!>
He made it through 2 bouts of ich so he was a real survivor.
<Indeed!>
I give the crew credit for his making it that long.
<Sounds to me like your conscientious good care and husbandry allowed him to have a nice long life.>
Thanks,
<You’re very welcome, and again, I’m so sorry for your loss.>
Sam
<Take care, LynnZ>

Green Clown Goby with Ich?  4/6/07
Hi my name is Michael.
First of all, I would just like to say that you guys run a wonderful website.  It has stopped me from making many stupid decisions since I am still rather new to saltwater aquariums.
<Glad we could help you help yourself and your actions/non-actions here>
I now have a problem with a sick green clown goby. I have searched for this under your clown goby disease page but I was unable to find a clear answer regarding this problem so if this has been answered already I apologize.
<Okay>
Anyways, Around 6 weeks ago I purchased a green clown goby.  He ate at the pet store
<You do know that these little chubsters almost exclusively feed on Acroporid polyps in the wild?>
and seemed fine but he was rather shy.
<Is their nature>
I took him home and put him in my quarantine tank for two weeks and he still seemed fine.
<Okay...>
After the 2 weeks, I put him in my main tank.  My poor little goby got into a small fight with my coral banded shrimp
<Incompatible...>
over a hiding area and although neither of them seemed hurt, the goby looked very scared and he hid.  For around 2 weeks he hid after that encounter and he refused to eat.  Recently, he has began to eat shrimp and flakes which is great.  He seems fine except for one thing. Around 3 week ago, he began to have green bumps on his skin.
Now, I looked on your site and saw someone with a similar problem but then my goby's green spots began to get little white tips which was not mentioned.  This made me believe it might be marine ich.
<Mmm... not likely if your other fish livestock lack symptoms... Very likely "just" reaction from the Stenopus encounter...>
The bumps are constantly coming and going every day but new ones appear in new parts of his body.
None of the other fish in my tank seem to be affected by whatever it is.  My clownfish, bicolor blenny, and purple Pseudochromis all seem fine.  Anyways, I am pretty sure that the green goby's 2 weeks of fasting combined with stress probably weakened his immune system causing him to get sick but if it is ich, would it be possible for him to be the only one affected?
<Not likely>
I also read on some site that ich can be in a tank and never affect the residents.
<Yes... but usually this following exposure... a sort of immunity, acquired...>
Basically, I am planning on removing the green clown goby from the tank into my quarantine tank again so I can closely watch him.  Are there other diseases that look like ich.
<Many>
These bumps started out green then became white.  They also disappear and reappear daily and I am not sure if that follows the life cycle of ich.  The fish seems unaffected and still eats normally.  Also, he seems to becoming more and more bold by coming out of his hiding place more often.
<Good>
Is there anything you can recommend or any ideas on what this disease may be/ how to cure it?
<Move this Gobiodon to another setting... more reef... with table top live coral/s... not Boxer Shrimp...>
I know that there are probably many things this could be and that many strains of infections look similar and require to be looked at under a microscope to be definitely identified. I hope I have provided enough information about my situation.  Thank you very much for your time.
from,
Michael.
<Read before buying... Bob Fenner>
 

Clown Goby loss... and Jawfish/Sexy Shrimp comp.   12/14/06
Hello again,
<Hi there Tom!  Mich with you again.>
I have to quick questions for you.
<Alrighty>
1. Are Pearly Jawfish compatible with Sexy Shrimp. The have quite big mouths and I was wondering if the temptation may be too great for them to bear.
<I don't think the jawfish will go after the shrimp looking for a snack, but the jawfish will defend its' burrow.  If the shrimp tries door to door sales, it could have an unpleasant encounter at the jawfish residence.>
2. A while back I bought a Clown Goby. He seemed to transition fine and he was nice and active ( he was the first fish I added to my nano tank after the tank had cycled for about 7 weeks). All had gone fine for about the first 6 weeks, but then two days ago he seemed to not want to come out, so he stayed hidden the whole day. I didn't get too worried because I thought he might just need some "alone time". Then yesterday, he wouldn't stop swimming around. He stayed out the whole day, eating and doing what fish do. As the day went on he seemed to get a little pail <What did he do with the little pail? Hehehe! Maybe you meant pale!>. By night he still seemed as fishy as ever but his color had really faded. This morning I went over to look to see how he was doing, and to my dismay, he was lying on the tank floor dead! I have no idea what caused this. The levels in his tank are all where they should be. He doesn't have and other tank mates ( I had made a the nano tank just for him). The only other thing I can think to tell you is that when his color faded, only the green faded ( sorry I should have told you he was a green clown goby earlier). The red dots and stripes were still as bright as they usually were. If you have any insights they would be greatly appreciated.
<I'm sorry for your loss.  There is nothing that leads me to suspect anything particular contributed to his death.  Obviously there are many possibilities.>  
My apologies, this dragged on longer than I thought it would.
<No worries.>
Thanks for all the great work you do.
<A collective labor of love.  -Mich>
Tom

Re: Clown Goby loss... and Jawfish/Sexy Shrimp comp.   12/14/06
Hi Mich,
<Hi Tom!>
I was not planning on getting a soliciting shrimp :),
<Heee!>
but since it could happen do you think it would be better just to avoid Sexy Shrimp?
<It would eliminate potential problems.>
Do you think the Clown Goby may have just died of natural causes?
<Hopefully yes, but it's impossible to say.>
If you think he didn't are there any other thing I should check?
<Like no one wiped the outside of the tank down with bleach or accidentally spike the tank while spiking the eggnog?>
Maybe he was caught under his little pail :)?
<Could have been!>
Sorry about that last time, yes I did mean pale.
<It's OK, just having some fun with it!>
Thanks again.
<You're quite welcome.  -Mich>
Tom

Re: Clown Goby loss... and Jawfish/Sexy Shrimp comp.   12/14/06
Hello again Mich,
<Hi there Tom!>  
Alrighty, I will steer clear of the sexy shrimp for now.
<A good idea I think.>
If it was from a bleach wipe down, what's the longest you think it would take from the time of the wipe to the time of his death (just so I can do some investigating)?
<Hmm, not sure, would depend on many factor but I would say more than a few minutes to less than a couple of days, big range I know.>
The tank does get wiped down but I do not use cleaners. My thought is maybe someone else used the cloth with cleaners and didn't rinse the cloth.
<Would recommend a dedicated cloth or disposable paper products.>
Do you think that could be a cause?
<It's possible, but so are many other things.>
I'll be sure to put up a sign beside the tank that informs people that the fish doesn't drink to eliminate the other idea you had ;).
<Do a google search on reef tanks and vodka, you will be amused!>
Thanks again.
<My pleasure.  -Mich>
Tom
 

Please help - Treatment of Gobies   6/19/06
Dear Mr. Fenner
  I am writing to you in great distress, in the hope that you might be able to educate me further in the type of medications that can't be used on Clown Gobies.
  With all the best intentions in the world, I put my Citron Goby in to my quarantine tank  to treat for a whitespot/velvet infection.  I started to treat her with Copper - Seachem Cupramine, to be exact.   I only put the first days dose in.  Everything seemed fine.  Later that day I then went to browse the web for more information on the Green Clown Gobies I was thinking of buying.  I stumbled across your very informative webpage for this breed, and noted, with horror that under the disease section of your Gobies page you write,
  "Gobioids for the most part are relatively disease resistant, with the exception of one type of disease, environmental. Though they have cycloid or ctenoid scales, they have about the same intolerance of harsh chemical treatments as "naked" fishes. Many more are bumped off from copper, malachite and formalin- containing medicants than from the infectious diseases they're used against."
<Yes>
  In sheer panic, I rushed downstairs to see the horrific sight of my clown goby.  Her skin had literally started to dissolve, and there were parts of her fins eroding at the edges, and places where he skin had bubbled up.  Most horrifically, there were two places where the copper had eaten in to her body.  She also had what looked like red blood lines to the rear of her gills ... internal bleeding? Words cannot describe how devastated I am.   
  I rushed to do a 50% water change, using my main tank water, and started to run a PolyFilter, in order to significantly dilute the copper solution.  
<Good moves>
  30 hours on, she is still alive, and there has been no further damage to her skin that I can see.  I know that it is unlikely that she will survive this ordeal, but I am desperate to do all I can, and to make her as comfortable as possible.  I am daily testing the water parameters.  The QT is blacked out, and I am starting to lower the salinity, in order to keep and bacterial infections that could arise from the damage, at bay.
  Yours is the only website I have found that indicates towards this problem with Gobies.
<Mmm... a speculation re the "capacity", utility of the Net at this juncture. I and others have written (magazine articles, books) touching on this topic/issue for many years>
I have purchased a copy of your book, and have read there what you have written about this also.  
<Oh!>
  My very experienced LFS also had not heard of this problem.
  I was wondering whether you are able to tell me if this is a normal reaction by my clown goby to this treatment.
<It is. Such "toxic" treatments, even with chelated copper solutions need to be carefully measured at about the near lowest physiological dose (0.15 ppm free cupric ion equivalent)>
Also, does this happen to all Gobies?  
<Nearly all... though smaller individuals, species are more direly and quickly mal-affected>
I understand that this reaction is caused by copper, malachite and Formalin-containing medicants.  Does that mean any use of those mentioned substances, even at very low doses?
<One can... in actual practice these materia-medica are used by public aquariums, wholesalers... daily>
  Would there be any difference in reaction from chelated and non-chelated copper?
<Mmm, oh yes... The free cupric ion is really the only important measure in both/all cases. Utilizing sequestered compounds only/allows for a more "steady" dosage... The chelated is better for hobbyists and commercial settings in almost all cases. Free copper (sulfate) solutions are of value for raceway, open, culture, some high-tech. settings>
  Why is the Gobiodon reaction not a more widely know fact?
<Mmm... ours seems an esoteric field... My next guess is that there are so few aquarists that "make it to" the level of serious keeping of this huge group of fishes that they have little chance/opportunity (as yet) to communicate their observations, findings>
  I would be very appreciative of any further information and help that you could give me.
  Kind regards
  Claire Read-Ball
<I do sincerely hope that you remain active in this hobby field... And strongly encourage you to pen an article for sale to the print and electronic media in our interest for your and all's edification. Bob Fenner>

Treatment of Gobies, Copper, Cupramine   7/10/06
Dear Mr. Fenner
  Thank you so much for your kind reply a little while ago, when I wrote to you regarding the terrible incident I had with my Clown Goby having a horrific reaction to copper.  I thought that I would let you know that although my subsequent water changes prevented any further damage to her, she never really recovered, and died 5 days later.
<Thank you for this update>
I had been hoping that as she made it through 48 hours, she might recover, but I think the damage was too severe.
  I also wrote to the company who makes the copper treatment, to see what their advice was on treating Gobies with copper.  I thought that you would be interested to see their reply, as they seem to think that copper does not have any ill affects on Gobies.  I would be interested to see what you think, before I reply to them:
   "Cupramine works great on most copper sensitive fish like puffers and Angels.
You will find that puffers are mush more sensitive to copper than gobies.  We have had many people use Cupramine on gobies and puffers without a problem.
I'm sorry for what your goby is going through but I can assure you it is not from the proper use of Cupramine.
One dose of Cupramine (1 ml per 10.5 gallons) will result in a copper concentration of 0.25 mg/L.  I suspect that your fishes reaction is a
result of disease or possibly you used Cupramine inappropriately.
<Possibly>
Here are some questions that may help us figure out what occurred:
Where did you get the water for the quarantine tank?
Was it freshly made salt water?  Did you check to make sure it matched pH, temperature, salinity, and that the ammonia and nitrite were at zero?
<Good questions, concerns>
Did you add any other chemical with the Cupramine?  Water conditioner, medication, ammonia remover.
Did you have a UV sterilizer running?
<This will remove the copper...>
Did you do anything that could have stressed the Goby prior to being placed in the aquarium?
Freshwater dip
Are you sure that the fish has ich or velvet?  What you describe sounds like Brooklynella.  (rapid progression, string-like material hanging off the fish)
<A valid concern. Copper compounds will not treat this protozoan complaint... but it is rare on Gobiids/oids>
Please let me know the answers to these questions and I will help you the best I CAN.
<A very nice response indeed>
Best Regards,
Seachem Tech Support"   
  Thank you for your time and help once again.
  Kind regards
  Claire
<Thank you for sending this along. There is much to know/relate concerning copper's use... Not a simple, use so much of this, in such and such condition/s. Bob Fenner>

Goby Quarantine Period
Bob:
I was at a seminar that you gave in Brooklyn, NY on May 9, 2003. I came across some notes I took from that day, and it seems that you said Gobies do not need a standard quarantine period. I wrote down "a few days". I wanted some clarification, since I just purchased a 1" Yellow Clown Goby (Gobiodon okinawae) and it is currently in my quarantine tank. Thanks, Rich
(*bursting* with anticipation on RI).
<Thank you for writing. I do stand by the general statement re a foreshortened quarantine period for most (small) gobies and blennies... for what quarantine is worth, any more than a few days presents a "bad trade-off" with loss of weight, overall health>
Ps: Did you cut your hair yet? Every time I forget what you look like, I think of Sam Kinison, sans hat! ;)
<Ha! Did have some trimmed off, but am adamant to keep my neck warm... and besides, Sam.K is dead! Bob Fenner>

New Yellow Clown Goby
Hi again !<Hi Back...MikeD here>
Thanks so much for your sound advice! I currently have a nano marine set-up, 10 gal, 10 lbs live rock, 3 inch sandbed, which is currently housing 3 small
false Clownfishes. After a month's quarantine and a fallow tank, my tank and fishes are now ich free, which I owe it all to you guys!<Glad it worked!> The fishes are in its 10th day in the display tank, ich free and eating, which I hope would continue to stay that way. I have plans to upgrade to a 50 gal. tank as I've seen them very active and 10 gal. won't do them justice.<You'll probably be much happier. Often larger tanks are actually easier and ALWAYS more forgiving if you err a little.>
Yesterday I went to the LFS and saw this less than 1 inch yellow clown goby.
Out of pity I purchased him because he was really banged up.<Been three all too often.> He had beaten
fins and some injury on his body, but no severe bleeding or red spots. He's now in the QT and I am nursing him to health. I've read the FAQs on them and found little information on how and what to feed him. I've given him small
pieces of squid, prawn, Tetra sinking morsels and Tetra flake food but still he wouldn't eat. Is it because he is still recovering from his injury and
shipping?<Possibly. I'd suggest using a good antibiotic if there's body damage, and even for the fins. Even with healthy Clown gobies it's often best to start them out with live brine shrimp to get them started, and with an injured one, may be it's only chance> I'm observing him and sometimes he'd "stand-up", sometimes at the corner hiding. I've also observed that he'd really stand still, and I thought he was dead because there was little movement, event mouth and gill movements were really at a minimum. Is he relaxing or something ? Would he
accept the food I'm giving if he has adjusted to the QT ?<Likely not. Again, live brine if possible>
I may put some Methylene blue<NO!!!! Many gobies are scaleless or nearly so to the point that die based medications can be fatal!> on the QT to help him in healing 3 days from now, I'll just give him time to adjust.<My suggestion would be Maracyn (brand name for Erythromycin) an antibiotic that I've used for over 30 years>  I hope he gets better.<me too>
Hope you could advise on what food and how to take care of him.<I hope the info helps, but if he doesn't make it, keep in mind they are delicate little guys to begin with, more so if injured, so you took on an uphill battle, very commendable in my book, so it's not your fault>
Thanks!<Good Luck and You're very welcome>

 Re: New Yellow Clown Goby
Hi MikeD !
<Hi back, MikeD again>
Thanks for the advice! It's really good to ask the experts first before
doing anything.<Whoa...no expert here, just an old guy that's been doing this a long time **grin**>
Well, he's still not eating. And last night I put some light on to check his condition. He has a little frayed top fin, but what concerns more was that he was injured, but he has lots of 'warts' like things protruding in his body and fins. I am unable to get a clear ID on what he has, its either Lymphocystis or Marine Ich, or both. I know what ich looks like because of my clowns =) .. but I am not sure about the actual appearance of Lymphocystis, all I know is that it looks like big ich (cotton like) and the bump comes from within the body, and it also manifests on fins. Its a little bigger and more protruding than ich, and he doesn't have rapid breathing.<That's a good sign>
Is it okay if I lower the salinity a bit?< A "bit" probably won't do any good, and I believe clown gobies are a tad more delicate than many of their tough little cousins> I am doing daily water changes to assist his healing. I read the FAQs and there is no cure for Lymphocystis except for good water and environment.<I'd continue with what you're doing until you can be sure (a good magnifying glass might help) as the wrong treatment can often be worse than the disease!>
Thanks again !<You're very welcome. Continued good luck>
Romel

Yellow Clown Goby with "parasites"
This is my second go round buying yellow clown gobies in which they develop small yellow ?parasites. These bumps resemble flaps or tissue like people that have skin tags.
<Ah yes... you are likely correct here... parasitic copepods likely>
It's very strange. I had fresh water tanks for years and in October '04 finally leapt into the marine world. With freshwater fish I've dealt with injuries, fungus, infections, ich, anchor worms, flukes and some other odd parasites (particularly on goldfish and Koi).  I have a 40 gallon System II by SeaClear (with the bioballs removed), have 2 powerheads and a protein skimmer. My temp. runs 78-79 degrees. I was keeping salinity at 1.0024-25 and have lowered it to 1.0023 for the last couple weeks (in case I'm not keeping as close tabs on it). I have 2 1/2 - 3" live sand and 50 pounds of live rock. I cycled it for a month with nitrates never going beyond 40 ppm. For the last month they've remained stabile at 20 ppm.
<Okay>
These parasites look like none I've ever seen. Are they possibly endemic to yellow gobies?
<Possibly. Have you seen this pic: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/gobyfaqs2.htm  hard to make out... but the "black sticks" are copepod parasites on a goby in the wild>
I have not seen these bumps on the green, black or red gobies in the store but have seem them on the yellow clown gobies at the store sometimes. The fleshy looking tags are yellow (not clear or white) there are at least a dozen on each side of the fish on the body, all fins and gill cover. Some lay flat some stick out like flaps or tags. 
<Do send along a pic if you can>
First the history, in December I bought 2 yellow clown gobies and (I was a bad girl) I introduced them without any dip or quarantine. I don't have Acro coral and didn't even know they liked it. They ate Mysis shrimp very well, were very active and after a few days developed "bumps" but were still acting happy. I rushed off to the pet store to buy a couple cleaner species. I released my neon goby and cleaner shrimp and by the next morning the neon goby and both yellow gobies were gone! 
Cecil our red serpent star looked guilty (he'd previously dismantled another serpent star and was the quickest to the food every time I fed) so I've got rid of him thinking they might have either been killed in their sleep (or he just ate all the remains once they died).
<Not likely... "the" green serpent star can be trouble in this regard, but not other (known) species... unless the Gobiodon were very weakened... These little gobies are quite quick, aware in good health>
I adjusted a few parameters slightly. I lowered salinity to 1.0023, temp to 78 instead of 80, bought a few Acro frags, read more, and started over. Jan 21, I bought 2 more yellow gobies, used a 6 minute freshwater dip with Methylene Blue released the gobies (yes again no quarantine tank, my husband's remodeling the bathroom I'm putting the quarantine tank in!). They liked the Acro,
<Yes, this genus of goby/coral are almost always found in intimate association in the wild>
one disappeared after 48 hours and the other one developed these bumps. We no longer have any predators. The current tankmates are a firefish and scooter dragonet (first two fish I bought in November), a six line wrasse and 3 Banggai cardinals (all eating well), a pistol shrimp,
<Mmm... this might be a/the culprit>
2 cleaner shrimp, hermits, snails, 2 sandsifter stars, and a wild caught percula clown (he's another story). I've had large feather dusters and several assorted soft coral frags mainly zoas and mushrooms (If they thrive, a frag will be enough to get it started and if they don't I wont have a $60++ specimen fouling the tank).
<These two could consume the gobies as well>
  The cleaner shrimp don't seem to be helping him any. All the parameters are reading good should I wait longer or put him in the hospital tank. What would I treat with?
<Mmm, "Marine Clout" or other medicine containing organophosphate (yes, bug killer)... DTHP, Neguvon, Masoten, Dylox... this economic poison mal-affects terrestrial insects and (closely related physiologically, teleologically) crustaceans... of the latter which I believe the bumps are indicative>
Are they sensitive to copper since they hang out with Acro (is Acro sensitive to copper like other inverts)?
<Are copper sensitive... maybe an 8 out of ten on some scale of such>
Short note on the clown. Jan 1, I bought a tank raised ocellaris "Swimmy" (I refused my 5 year olds other choice of Nemo)...
<I will leave the wisdom of this choice up to you... not what I would have done however>
...a few mornings when the lights came on he showed ich spots. The shrimp picked him clean within the first 15 minutes. Jan 21 he was dead, not sure why.
<Mmm, unusual... your source/retailer has a defective program for preventing cross-contamination (please show them this, or make known the comment)... their systems (likely on a centralized filter) and net, specimen container dips... should exclude the vectoring of such a parasite... Tank-bred fishes are by design, remarkably disease free... from their producers.>
He ate algae based flake, frozen Mysis, and brine shrimp and was very active. My husband was so sad about Swimmy he stopped by a local store yesterday and had to buy a clown because it was 1/2 the price I paid! ("Swimmy 2" is a wild caught percula) Yesterday, I used a 6 minute freshwater dip with Methylene blue and bought a bubble tip anemone for Swimmy 2 just in case he adapted to it. Swimmy 2 is wild caught percula woke up with white spots this morning which were taken care of by the shrimp. So far he hasn't given the anemone a look. They tried to sell me a carpet anemone but I read their much harder to keep...
<Yes>
...and need to spread out on the sandy substrate, I have more rock less substrate surface.  Any advice at all is appreciated.
<Mmm, I do wish we could go back to the bathroom remodel... have you had a quarantine tank, procedure in place, not have had your system become infested (it is)... now a balance of variables must be diligently monitored, kept to prevent hyper-infective states>
I've read a lot, took the salt water aquarium class at Orange Coast College a few years ago but was very happy to find this website this morning! Seeing Robert Fenner and Anthony Calfo's name on this website was to me like seeing a celebrity.  Thanks much, Cindy
<Heee!>
P.S. I bought 3 Banggai previously that did not eat. These current 3 were in the store and the whole group was tracking on people as they walked by. To me this means they're used to being fed (they react the same way my freshwater angel does). So far they were a good choice, and I didn't let my daughter name them Stripey!.
<Good observations, descriptions... I would/do encourage you to indulge your little one... and retain these elements of "childishness" in yourself as well... A valued life lesson from one who recognizes such in himself. Bob Fenner>