CryptBlensGobs

FAQs on Marine Ich, Cryptocaryoniasis & Treating Sensitive Fishes: Gobies, Blennies, Mandarins & Kin

Anything wet can transport Crypt, other pathogens

How to QT a mandarin for ich? 7/6/08
Hi there guys! Hope all is well with you over there!
<Thus far>
I've read your FAQs already, and it's said that mandarin's have a slimy toxic coat but can also harbor the ich parasite.
<Seems to>
How can I QT a mandarin with hyposalinity
<I wouldn't>
for 6 weeks to fully get rid of ich - as these guys don't readily eat pellets, are quite hard to train.
Best regards!
Jason
<Try Chloroquine phosphate... and keep feeding live food. Bob Fenner>

Ick and wrasses/gobies 12/18/07
Hello!
<Jonathan>
I've been about a month now into the fallow period of my 90G reef tank. I slowly increased the temperature to 85 degrees in that tank and everything handled it very, very well. I've read that that's about tops you can go temperature wise to at least speed up the life cycle of crypt a tad.
<Yes>
But anyway, my wrasses (now only 2 since my clown wrasse skyrocketed out of my tank during a routine cleaning and didn't survive when he was put back in :( ) both have never had a spot on them and neither has my yellow watchman goby. I've never been a huge fan of dipping my wrasses in the past, because they tend to freak out way earlier and I (again, my own opinion) think that they don't tolerate it near as much as other fish I've had in the past. But back to the main point -- both them and the yellow watchman goby have never had a spot of crypt on them that I could see with my own eyes. It was the more crypt-susceptible fish that, unfortunately, succumbed.
They've been in quarantine/hospital for about 3 and a half weeks (and likely at least another 3 weeks) and look absolutely fantastic. Temperature was slowly increased to about 89/90 degrees for a few weeks and has now been reduced to 80 degrees -- in simple hopes to speed up what crypt was likely present in the q.t. But I never saw any white spots at the bottom of the tank so I would have to guess that the wrasses and goby are crypt free, considering I never saw a dead white cyst or free swimmer laying at the bottom of the empty bottom. One would likely be correct in thinking that, correct?
<Not necessarily. Easy to miss>
The reason I think it never happened is because I re-acclimated the fish to new water in their q.t. tank and the fact that I've never seen a spot of crypt on any of the 3.
I'll probably dip both wrasses and the goby on the way back INTO the display after their time in q.t. even though it goes against my view with the wrasses (mainly bad luck a few times with them but no other fish I've had has ever given me a problem with freshwater dips outside of wrasses) just to give some added assurance that the crypt has finally cycled out.
--
Jonathan Philpot
<We'll see. BobF>

If only.. quarantine, Crypt   3/8/07
Greetings Bob and/or Crew Member.
<Hello Brandon here.  Do keep in mind that there are more than just one crew member.>
If I'd just done what I knew I was supposed to do (based largely upon information freely available at WWM) everything would've been fine.
<Sad but heard so often.>
Instead, I was really eager to place my new mandarin into the 125 gal system that I've designed around this particular fish's needs.  In my eagerness, the bad advice from my LFS that mandarins don't get ick due to their toxic slime coat and therefore don't need to be quarantined sounded moderately plausible.  Plausible enough that although my QT was up, running, and ready as it had been for every other swimming thing I've put into the tank, I bypassed it, and dumped the happy healthy looking guy into the display tank.
<This mucus only keeps them from getting eaten.>
For any and all readers of the Daily FAQs....DON'T MAKE THIS MISTAKE.
<Quarantine is something we strongly advocate.>
My Powder Brown Tang is now well and truly infected with ick.  Fortunately, he's still eating and looks otherwise healthy, so I'm hoping I have a chance of making this a not-too-painful reminder of proper quarantine habits.  The mandarin, for what its worth, looks very healthy read: plump, although I have at one time or another observed a single white spot here and there.
<You will wind up removing all of the fish.>
My question is this...I'd like to avoid running copper full time in the QT, so that it can double as a place to put corals etc when not occupied by an incoming fish.  I've made peace with needing to tear down my display in order to get all of the fish removed so as to let the display run fallow, and am hoping that as I remove each fish, I might get the results I'm hoping for by running a freshwater dip treated with copper while en route to the QT for the fallow period.
<I would use Methylene Blue in the dip.  Copper will have to be continually monitored.  Please read here, http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm.>
Based upon my review of the ick FAQs, I'm fairly certain that you'll suggest running the copper in the QT, checked twice daily via proper test kit, for 2-4 weeks with an additional 4 weeks in QT without copper.  <Yep.>  I'm just thinking/hoping that the dip may provide the benefits of copper without the prolonged exposure <Nope.> that may have implications for especially the tang's long term health.  Am also confounded by the prospect of providing proper mandarin food in the presence of copper...pretty sure that can't be done, and would result in turning a plump, if infected, mandarin into another deceased mandarin story.
Perhaps the solution here would be to treat the mandarin as advised on WWM for 2 weeks, then if all is well, find a boarding home for him for the remainder of the fallow period?
<Well this is what I was going to suggest, but since you already have, I guess you know what to do. :^P>
Although would feel even worse about pawning the parasites off on a friend.
<Treat for two weeks, and then board him with an INFORMED, and willing friend.>
Looking for help in achieving the elusive balance here.
<I hope that this helps.>
Thanks in advance,
<You are welcome, Brandon.>
Sam

Ich and The Goby   8/30/06
Hello again.
Thanks for the help with bitten Big Mama (RIP).  Now I have an ichy marine question.
Though I quarantined my teeny pink skunk clown fish in my partner's ISO tank for 3 weeks, I neglected to (of course) quarantine the 3 green Chromis and 1 reticulated humbug damsel I put in when I first started the tank (i.e., the Chromis and damsel are the original inhabitants).  To date, the Chromis & damsel remain ich free.  The clowns, OTOH, are most definitely not.  They are covered in ich (some mornings it looks like I tossed them in my sugar bowl, though they look much better within a couple of hours) and though fire shrimp is doing his best to keep up with it (and my local LFS is out of cleaner shrimp), and we did desperately try NSF (completely useless) as a last resort, the clowns remain ichy.  They are however eating, swimming, no clamped fins and no laboured breathing, no cloudy eyes - they just look like sugary clownfish.
<Too likely to become debilitated... killed on next cycle...>
My tank is 30 gallons and has about 50lbs of live rock, several hermits and snails, two corals, the fire shrimp and a pistol shrimp, who is best pals with his friend the pink spotted Watchman Goby.  Which leads me to my question(s):  I have set up a 10 gallon ISO tank treated with "Coppersafe" and the fish will be making this their new home for the next 6 weeks after I dismantle all the live rock tonight to catch them (*sigh*) and let the main tank go fallow.  I know Gobies are sensitive to copper and don't want to kill him in the ISO tank, but am afraid if I leave him in the main tank the Ich will have someone to live on.
<Will>
Goby currently remains Ich-free and was in the LFS for 3 weeks with no problems before I broke down and bought him and pistol shrimp.
The clowns came down with the Ich the day after I added Goby (whom I could not quarantine because the QT tank I was using at the time has a purple tang in it 2/3rds of the way through its quarantine) (complicated, yes, sorry).  Plus I had read that Gobies were pretty disease resistant.  Goby does not bother anyone in the tank, so I don't think he is stressing out the clowns.  My water has been excellent and no fishy deaths.
1) Is Goby better off in the big tank or the ISO tank?  Can he survive the copper?
<I'd move... have to remove all fish/vectors... and treat on the low side of physiological dosing... 0.15, 0.20 ppm free cupric ion>
2) If I leave him in the main tank, is he going to host the dreaded Ich cycle so my fish can never return?
<Yes>
3) If I do separate him from his friend Pistol Shrimp  for 6 weeks does that mean the relationship is over, or will absence make the heart grow fonder?
<Will become re-acquainted on return>
4) How long before I can consider the Chromis ich-free and return them safely to the LFS, as I don't really wish to keep them.
<A month or so. Bob Fenner>
Thanks so much.
Sheena

- Ich, Quarantine, and a Mandarin Dragonette -
Hi, I just found out about this website, thank you for the hope you offer my fish!  I have a complicated question, and don't want to overload your system, but I tried to include as much background as I thought might be relevant.  And probably forgot to include some too.
I have myself and my fish in a corner by simply reacting and not studying up. I thought my fish would be covered with ich and die in 3 days if I didn't get some meds in the tank right away.  I went down to the LFS and was given a choice of 3 medications and no idea what they would do.  I started the treatment that night with Kick-Ich.  The next day I started searching and found your site. On your advice a 20 gal tank for quarantine is set up and running now.  (not on your advice) I also bought a 15 w UV sterilizer.  When I installed the UV I noticed my skin burning from the display tank water.  (Kick-Ich?)  After reading your opinion on this I stopped after 2 treatments.  Also the snails become unconscious??? in the display lying fully exposed on the sand so I moved them to the QT. <Would expect the snails to react negatively to the Kick-Ich. Would just remove them period... certainly not to quarantine where you might need to treat the tank with something that might just outright kill the snails.>
I have a 5 year old 60gal. tank, not sure but 50 or so pounds live rock, 3" sand/gravel bed wet/dry filter and sump (have photos if you want)  2-tube 40 watt light fixture Salinity 1.020; ammonia 0;  PH 8.3; Nitrates under 10 (the kit is only in increments of 10) I have an AquaC skimmer but have not used it since the (Grrr) Rio pump quit.
The tank has been pretty stable for a year or so.  I have a Percula Clown, Yellow Tang, 2 green Chromis Damsels, some snails and BL hermits.  A couple of weeks ago I added a coral beauty and a mandarin dragonet (who has been eating well from day one though I am watching him carefully)  The coral beauty was not so lucky, she was stressed out from the move and hid for 3 days.  When I finally chased her out I could see she was in trouble, one eye cloudy and a clamped fin complete with white spot starting where the black spot was.  In addition I could see the white specks on her.  The previous inhabitants had some spots for a few days but not now, but both the mandarin and the coral beauty have spots and ALL fish are twitching and chafing.  The white patch on the angel is turning black again and the eye is better, but the spots are there the same from the day I first noticed them, more in the morning, less in the evening.
I hope the preceding was not too much, but now I need a course to follow.  I plan to freshwater dip the fish, mandarin last, and place most in the QT. Mandarin goes to the new 10 gal I will set up for him.   I have Formalite 2 to treat the QT, but not the mandarin?  I will do a large water change, (aerating a.k.a.) on the display.  I think I need a separate QT for the mandarin and have read your answers to this dilemma, or should I leave him in the main tank? <I would quarantine the Mandarin.> I would like to go a month with no fish in the display but I refuse to sacrifice this little guy to starvation. <That may happen no matter what - your tank is too small to support one of these fish long term, even if it were the only fish in the tank.> (working on a refugium solution).  Am I on the right track? <Sort of, but I wouldn't let your whole world hinge around a fish that was a poor selection in the first place. I'd go ahead and try isolating all these fish and continue to attempt to keep all the fish eating, including the Mandarin. Go ahead with the pH/temperature-adjusted freshwater dips for all and keep under observation.>
Thank you for your time.  Kevin.
<Cheers, J -- >

Treating Ick On A Touchy Fish
Hi Bob and Crew,
<Scott F. checking in tonight>
I am writing to you because I have a Mandarin dragonette that seems to have fallen victim to a case of Ick that has already claimed the life of a Kole tang in my 72 Gallon Reef tank. I fear that the Ick is preventing "Manny" from foraging for food and he is starting to really feel the effects of this parasitic disease. I am not sure if I should treat him as I would another fish of take exception to the fact that he is extremely delicate and only
feeds on a diet of copepods and amphipods. What steps would you take in order to rid him of the Ick parasite? Any help or advice you could give me would be greatly appreciated in this matter. I am thinking of treating him with Methyl-Blue in a small quarantine tank. Is this the best course of action or would this do more harm than good?
<Well, Methylene Blue is really better as an anti-bacterial, and would probably have little effect on a parasitic disease such as ick. However, if you're leery (and rightfully so!) about subjecting an otherwise touchy fish to aggressive medications, then you might want to utilize hyposalinity in the treatment tank. I am not a big fan of this technique, but I have utilized it with delicate fishes with some degree of success. Do read up on this technique on the WWM site>
I got him as a rescue out of a barren 10 gallon tank from a friend at my LFS. I would do anything I can to save him, as he is a really beautiful fish. Any help is appreciated - thanks. Jason
<Well, Jason- I think that you can save him, but it will take pretty quick action on your part...Get that hospital tank up and running, and start treatment ASAP...Good luck! Regards, Scott F>

Ich harbor
Hi Bob,
<Hey Nick>
I have had two Blue Hippo tangs die from either Velvet or Ich ( I am not sure of the diagnosis) and there is only one other fish in the tank. He is a small yellow with bluish spots Watchman Goby and he is healthy, eating and has no sign of any problems during any of the deaths. My question is will either of these parasites die off with him in there. I know they will without a host in a month's time but I am wondering if my Goby will act as a miniature "Typhoid Mary" by not getting either parasite but somehow help it continue it's life cycle.
<Good question... for me there's too much of a risk that your goby is supplying a low-virulence haven for the parasite/s... I would go the route of removing it to another system, elevating temp., lowering spg. and letting the system go w/o any fish hosts for at least a month... Please see here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Nick

Fallow tank question
Hi, all...
<Scott F. with you this evening>
I had a bad outbreak of ich due to a variety of reasons several months back, and lost all fish in a reef tank. <yuck>
I corrected what I think were the problems, but left the tank fallow only for 2 weeks before repopulating with a couple of fish (I'm *trying* to learn patience in this life :)).
<It IS a virtue, they say!>
Too soon, so I had another outbreak that killed the fish again. Or so I thought.
It's now been 4 weeks fallow, and I'm waiting another week before introducing any new fish (which are currently quarantined). The tank seems healthy (the corals are growing and thriving, but they seem lonely :)). However, I noticed that the last bout did *not* kill all the fish - I have a tiny goby that I bought in combination with a pistol shrimp during the repopulation a month back. For the first time in weeks, he poked his head out while I was looking, and he seems fine. There is *no* way to get him out of the tank without completely ripping the tank apart, which is not something I'm willing to do at this point. Is this a setback to the "fallow" program?
<Well, honestly-yes- sigh>
He's obviously resistant to ich - would he still be a "carrier"?
<Certainly a possibility>
What are my options?
< A really tough call here-prudence would dictate that you remove the goby, too-but...You may just want to wait a few more weeks to see if the ich manifests itself on this fish. Maybe try some biological cleaners, such as shrimps; reintroduce your fish and hope forth best. It's a risk either way-you just have to make the call that serves "the greater good">
( After close to 5 weeks, I'm looking forward to getting fish back into the tank. Arthur
<You've done a great job being patient-keep up the good work>

Ich in Reef
Bob,
What is your opinion on fish with light cases of ich that are maintained in a reef tank. I have heard that in tanks with live rock the fish can cure itself. I have a Midas blenny (you may have recalled my first letter with the Magnum) that will have no spots on him for a few days, and the next day he will have around 12. This has been going on for about a month. He eats like a pig and does not "scratch". What do you think I should do?
Thanks, Avery
<< Definitely try the biological cleaner route... to tip the balance in the host/fish's favor. Do you have any Lysmata shrimp? Room for a couple of Cleaner Gobies (Gobiosoma)... I'd add either/both of these. Bob Fenner>

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