Stocking Questions, reef, and Pairing Maroon Clownfish, - 12/9/07
Hello,
<Hello John, Brenda here>
First off, thank you for your site. It is incredibly helpful and I have certainly saved a number of fish; particularly a maroon clown at least twice in my "beginning year"--so she thanks you too.
<You are both welcome! Thank you for the positive feedback!>
That said, I have just recently downsized from a 210 gallon tank to a 28 gallon JBJ nano (stock everything including a 150 metal halide. The only upgrade is a Tunze 9002 protein skimmer.) Due to the downsizing, I now have some stocking issues that I never had to face before. (FYI, I will do a 20% water change every two week and throw in a bag of Chemi Pure once every couple months. The tank is currently stocked with a maroon clown (3.5") and 2 spotted cardinals (2"), 3 peppermint shrimp and a cleaning crew (snails and hermits). I keep the temperature around 78, pH near 8.4 and nitrate less than .1ppm, and salinity around 1.025 SG, calcium around 400, and truthfully I rarely measure alkalinity).
Question 1
I plan to keep the following (sorry, but the color description is for me to remember):
1. Toadstool (Sarcophyton)--green tint, (right side of tank, near the back and mid level)
2. Yellow Leather Coral, yellow (right side of tank, near the back and mid level)
3. Pulsing Xenia (front and middle of tank)
4. Green Star Polyps (right of tank, mid level)
5. Orange Ricordea (top and right of tank)
6. Red Mushroom (lower levels of tank)
7. Any blue or purple mushrooms (lower levels of tank)
This has seemingly worked well for the last few weeks but obviously I want it to work much longer, especially as everything continues to spread. In my attempt to stay away from a bubble tip anemone but still proved a "natural" home for the clownfish I purchased the Sarcophytons.
<I agree that an anemone is not a good choice here.>
It has worked surprisingly well (she actually uses both, they are on the same piece of live rock) so I cannot get rid of them. But anything else (gulp) can be removed.
<Heehee! Gulp? I sense fear here! I’ll try to go easy on you.>
My question is: Does the above mix and placement seem to be a reasonable mix or am I asking for a future calamity and where?
<The potential problems I see here is chemical warfare. You have a lot of soft corals! Your tank is a bit small and will be over grown quickly. You will need to keep things trimmed. How are your propagation skills? Green star polyps are quite toxic and spread quickly. I would remove, or at a very minimal keep a limited amount. I find that most people like to keep green star polyps on the bottom, away from any other rock, to eliminate the chances of it taking over the tank. Xenia is also a fast spreading coral. I would keep it on one or two rocks, and propagate before it spreads to more. Mushrooms can also quickly get out of hand.>
Sorry for the laundry list but it seems that the coral stocking questions and answers section are appropriate for a particular tank and I don't want to make a mistake (at least here--I'm sure I will make plenty of others elsewhere).
2. I have always thought that you had to purchase a mated pair of clowns to start off.
<Purchasing a mated pair does not guarantee they will co-exist peacefully once they are introduced to their new home. Also, a 28 gallon tank is a bit small for a pair of Maroons. This may cause additional aggression.>
After reading your site I realized that if I purchase a very small maroon clown that it may work or the poor clown may be killed.
<Yep! How is that for statistics? It’s a definite maybe! You will need to keep a close eye on them and remove if things get too rough. Don’t plan on going anywhere.>
I noted that you have mentioned "may" work regarding the potential pairing.
<This is true with any species.>
What percentage (best guess) "make it" if the steps you outline in your site are followed? (I also understand that I would have to find a good home for the cardinals). Just want a basic idea before I commit to attempting it.
<This is a tough one! I honestly don’t have any idea on a percentage. It is a risk, and nearly certain that the little guy will receive some abuse. Also, one technique does not work for all maroons. It can be a bit of trial and error here, extreme patience on your part, and knowing when to say enough is enough. The key here is to provide a way out for the little guy. PVC small enough that only the small maroon can enter, a breeders net, hung over the top of the tank, holding the smaller maroon while letting the larger get used to the idea of a partner. Eggcrate has also been used to create a partition between the two. Others have set up their quarantine tank adjacent to the existing tank, allowing the female to see the new maroon. Rearranging the tank, creating a new environment, has also worked. If it were me, I wouldn’t take the chance in a 28 gallon. I do know that many have done it, and succeeded. However, I do not believe this is what is best for the clownfish.>
Thank you in advance for any advice you may offer. It really is much appreciated. John
<You’re welcome and good luck to you! Brenda>

Pairing Maroon Clownfish – 9/27/07
<Brenda here tonight!>
Thank you for your help in the past.
<You’re welcome!>
I have another question. I have two Maroon clowns, one gold stripe and one white stripe in separate QT tanks and I'm getting ready to move them into my 180 display tank. The white stripe is a large size and the gold stripe is a medium size. What are the chances the two will pair up?
<Is difficult to say. It is always best to work with juveniles that have not yet become male or female. If two juveniles is not an option, I recommend one being a juvenile, with a way for the juvenile to escape the larger one. If you introduce two males, one will likely turn into the female. If you introduce two females they will likely fight to the death of one or both. Maroon clownfish can be very aggressive. I have heard horror stories of other “innocent” fish getting in the way of two Maroon clownfish fighting. Keep a very close eye on them and be prepared to separate! Brenda>

Effects of environment and Diet  9/23/05
Hi Bob and crew,
<Hi Anthony, Adam J here.>
I was looking for a mate for my 1.75" maroon and bought a large one from LFS.
<Maroons tend to be highly aggressive toward each other, most folks who keep a pair bought them this way, so keep an eye on both parties they may not accept each other.>
It's more than 4" long so is it safe to assume it's a female.
<Most Clowns if they live long enough, gain enough size will get their turn as the female, the only real way to be sure is to obtain a pair together, the male being the drastically smaller sized, I usually don’t see them get much bigger than 3”.>
  I also bought it because I've never seen an orange (like perc orange) maroon clown.  Why do you think it's not maroon?
<Many factors affect the color of fish, age, geographic location, genetics, but in my opinion the most weighing factor is diet. Just make sure this guy gets lots of variety, like a quality flake or pellet with vegetable matter as well as meats of a marine origin.>
Thanks, Anthony
<Anytime, Adam J.>

Lonely Maroon Clown
Hi,
<Hi there! Scott F. at your service!>
I have a few questions to ask you.
<Ask away!>
First, I have 1 Maroon Clown about 4cm long, and recently the female Maroon passed away. She was about 10cm (which I believe to be big for Maroons) and was wondering what to do now. I want to get another Maroon for him, but what size ETC clown do I get?
<I'd probably opt for two more, and I'd try to get them slightly larger than your male. As these fishes do undergo sex changes, it is possible that your male could become a female if the new fishes are smaller!>
Also, is it alright for metal halide to go about 12cm above the tanks bracing's because I have a 5 ft and its got 2 braces which makes it very awkward and costly, so what are my other options or is this ok?
<I'd try it over the bracing for a while. If you are getting diminished growth or poor performance, then you may ant to consider repositioning, or possibly even moving up to a higher wattage halide.>
Thanks 
<My pleasure! Regards, Scott F.>

Compliments re IO's "SeaScope" newsletter, Maroon Clown pc.
Dear Bob:
<Richard>
This time no question, but rather a compliment.  I just picked up a copy of IO's "SeaScope" newsletter, and saw your article on maroon clowns.  It was extraordinary--comprehensive, purposefully informative, and erudite.  For what it's worth, it helped steer me off the maroon I was contemplating, to settle instead on a beautiful 2.5" Clarkii [tank raised] that has been with the store for several months. [It is, nevertheless, in QT].
Again, thanks, and best regards,
Rick
PS  I finally found a store with competent, informed people, who don't just say things like, "Oh, yeah, those flame scallops are great keepers, tough as nails'', and they insist on knowing what else you have in your tank before they will sell you what you think you want. What a breath of fresh air!
<Ahh, great find. Thank you for your kind, encouraging words. Bob Fenner>

Stocking a 46
Thanks for the quick reply! So, is the bottom line that if I really have my heart set on maroons , they should maybe be sole occupants? How about two maroons and a flame angel? Somehow, just two fish seems like an awfully empty tank? <<In a 46 with lots of cover, I think the pair of maroons and the flame would work out.>> But, then I'm coming from years of freshwater tanks, and I know they're different worlds. <<Our fish tanks are not even a grain of sand compared to the ocean, so you've got to think about how to do the best you can... make compromises from the "original plan" that insure you get to keep/enjoy the fish for a long time. Might I also suggest a Percula clown pair? Much more peaceful than a maroon. Cheers, J -- >>

Maroon Clown "boxing" matches
I'm not sure if my clowns are looking forward to the Lewis/Tyson fight
tonight - but they sure as heck are trying to mimic it.
<has the volatile one tried to bite the other's pectoral fin off yet...maybe the operculum?>
They are 2 new guys - we just got them on Friday. Purchased one slightly larger than other (as your book suggests)... the larger of the two is tearing the smaller one to shreds. It is really sad.
<indeed... there are no guarantees. Maroons are notoriously aggressive with anything they see fit!>
What do you suggest? 
<Leave the larger one in the quarantine tank that you have up (surely nobody risks great disease and disaster by putting wild caught fish straight in to their tank?!) <wink> The smaller one can then get established in the main display... which should be a short trip from where he is currently...Ha!>
None of the other fish in the tank are getting involved, or provoking the situation.
<indeed...they are all afraid of that crazy wench>
Will they eventually battle it out? (with an amicable solution) or will the smaller guy just loose it?
<when clowns pair in a new tank... the female is most always somewhat aggressive to the male and most other fishes as she stakes out a nest. After she is comfortable, she will then drive the male back into the nest and be more amicable. Chasing is one thing... but if the fin nipping is causing wounds, there may be a bigger problem with compatibility. It SHOULD settle with three days. If it doesn't or is too severe... "HOUSTON... we have a problem.">
~Bill
<best regards, Anthony>

Re: Maroon Clown "boxing" matches
As always - thanks for the quick response!!
<always welcome!>
Your suggestions are confusing (or I've gotten too much sun today) -
<not too much sun... just my arcane sense of humor <G>>
Which is the better option:
* Putting the "wench" in a breeder net in main tank - while letting the
battered male regain composure & heal his fins (# days?)
<good>
* Putting the "wench" in a totally separate quarantine - while letting the battered male regain composure & heal his fins (# days?
<better>
* Leaving the 2 in the main tank in hopes that in a few days they will be friends (or at least not fighting with each other?)
<worst>
Right now - the wench is in the breeder net in the main tank, and the
battered male is starting to swim again, and explore.
>in a perfect world... both in a QT from go would have been ideal. Now, I fear the move to QT for the already stressed male does not serve the greater good. However, the female will be better off in a small QT tank than the penalty box... er, breeder net>
These 2 were in separate tanks at the LFS... is it possible they could both be male?
<alas... no clear way to tell. If they had been held isolate long enough (several weeks) there is a better chance they are both female. Two males would be better if it were so; at least with protandrous hermaphrodites (http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/articles/2002/hermaphroditism.html), an unsexed juvenile can turn into a male and then can then turn into a female (dominant sex), but a female cannot change back to a male. If your two clowns are small/young enough however and had only recently been split from a group (of unsexed or male juveniles)... then you may very well in time end up with a sexed pair>
~Bill
<best regards, Anthony>

Re: Maroon Clown "boxing" matches
How long would your recommend keeping them separated?
<At least two weeks.. no rule. Be sure male seems to be well adjusted, healed and eating aggressively>
Thanks
~Bill

Re: Maroon Clown "boxing" matches
How bad will the female generally get the male?
<she can easily kill him. It happens often>
Our guy is pretty bad... eaten fins, hiding in corner, etc...
<isolation is still the best route. As mentioned before... chasing is one thing when fish try to establish a pecking order, but actual wounds is an entirely different matter. And none of it is promising if even tolerable after just 2-3 days. Separate them please. Anthony>

Maroon Clown Query
<Hello! Ryan with you today>
First thanks for your reply and for the excellent info your site offers. <Surely> I am buying a 72 gal bow front and need new lights. <Great> I am looking at doing 2 pendant lights. Is this enough to keep my crocea clam, Green star polyps, waiving hands, green anchor, blue mushrooms, green horn, toadstool, pagoda, red brain, green buttons and bubble tip anemone alive? should I run some actinic as well? <You should certainly run actinics as well.  I'm not a big fan of pendants at all.  I recommend a hood with both built in, around 450 total watts.  For more, see: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/lgtmarinvfaqs.htm> Any advice is appreciated. It is time to rid myself of that boring tiny 30 gallon and get a neat larger tank. Now I also could use some transfer advice. What do you recommend I do? Add a little say 15 gallons of the old water along with the crushed coral to the new tank? <No, I would cycle the tank from scratch.  You'll need to run both systems for at least a few months, and slowly add your livestock from most hardy to least.> I have a small CPR zone refugium as well. Should I just use this and my live rock to cycle the new tank? <I assume you're getting more live rock?  Cure this in the new tank, and let the refugium support your corals in the smaller tank.> Or can I pretty much skip that by transferring filters ref. and skimmer all at once along with the live rock and crushed coral? <See above, and research charge:http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupii.htm> Last I bought a second maroon clown. I want to get them to be buds but so far not so good. I bought a much larger one to add but as yet my old one beats it up. I have been keeping the new one in a specimen cont. in the tank and releasing like once per day for a few minutes. I do not want a huge fight so I put the new one back into the container within a few minutes of fighting. Should I just continue this till they get along? Or release him to just get whooped? (please don't say this one lol)<Actually, I think you should return the fish, and do more research the next time around.  Maroon clowns are notoriously "grumpy," and seldom act well in the presence of their own genus.  I have seen maroon clowns paired in the tank of experts, but it's certainly not an easy task.>  Well as I said thanks in advance. I appreciate the info and sorry I had to ask. <We wouldn't be here if this way easy!> I tried to search for a while but didn't see a whole lot on these subjects that helped as everyone has different circumstances.
<Good luck! Ryan>
Shane

Maroon Clown Query Follow-Up
<Ryan with you again>
Some how I forgot to mention in here that I was looking at 2 175 watt pendants . Should I still get these and run my 65 watt PC with an actinic bulb? That would be 415 watts. <That would work nicely, be a little easier on the wallet>  Next I did research the maroon and I have heard that they have a chance if the new one is larger. None the less I just put him in a different tank and he has gotten along great with the other fish in the 38 gallon all fish tank. <Good> Well with the usual cleaner inverts too. Last the only problem I have with running both tanks is I need to use the old tanks filtration on the new one. When I set up the 30 gallon I over did filtration and got a filter and skimmer both rated for 100 gallons.<Good> Yes I will be getting a little more live rock as well as making some and taking some from the 38 gallon. I will be shutting down the 30 gallon and moving the 38 gallon to another room. Then putting most of the 38s inhabitants into the new tank. I do not have the lights to run coral in the 38 gallon tank though so what do you recommend? <If it's only temporary, place the tank in an area with some natural sunlight.  Sunlight is the best free resource that many aquarists forget.  In fact, I have seen tanks that run SOLELY on sunlight.  Take it slowly, and try not to stress your livestock.  If you have a specimen container, please use it in place of a net.  Good FAQs here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/movaqfaq.htm
Good Luck! Ryan>

Re: Two New Maroons
Thanks for your thoughts.  Unfortunately one of the clowns died last night.  
We are heartbroken.  All of the water tested fine this morning.  There were
no obvious signs of illness.  From some of the posts on your website, it
sounds as if this is not entirely unusual.
<Sorry to read of your loss... Anomalous losses of wild-collected Clownfishes is very common as you state. If you can locate a much smaller individual (than the survivor) they may "mate"... I would not wait more than a few weeks to introduce the new one. Bob Fenner>