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Fluke Tabs: Mebendazole and Trichlorfon
Di-N Butyl Tin Oxide
fluke update; plus
Prazi, Pomacanthid dis f's
Hello almighty saltwater gods. I am not worthy. So I was thinking.....what kinds
of materials and what nots can hold Cupramine in a tank and cause the testing
level to appear not to rise and/or then possibly leech back into the water when
<Oh; this list is long... am sure one could use the Net, but am so olde that I'd
be looking in a CRC Manual for common molecules likely to form in a marine
aquarium habitat. Is cupric chloride, copper carbonate have a higher solubility
For example, small clay pots, while they make nice caves, are porous. And can
bits of uneaten food soak the medicine up enough to cause a problem?
<Mmm; not as much as the seawater itself, or "fresher" carbonate substrate and
rock.... fired clay pots are somewhat chemically inert>
I know to remove uneaten food but I was thinking about using a seaweed clip and
in that case, the food would spend more time in the water than flakes or Mysis.
My bicolor blenny, usually fat and happy, is eating little.
I am currently having what seems to be a bit of trouble getting my Cupramine
level above 3ish. All of my parameters are good and I only have a pre seeded
filter, heater, two little clay pots and an airs stone in a bare bottom 20 long.
I am treated a bicolor blenny and a royal gramma. I have been slowly raising the
Cupramine level over the last week and I want to be sure I am at a good
therapeutic level so I'm not wasting my time and unnecessarily stressing my
fish. Also, I don't want to prolong their Ich misery. It is/was a slight case to
my eyes. I did not follow the directions, dosing wise, because I have read it is
better to slowly raise the Cupramine level, especially for the sensitive blenny.
Since the white spots, of which there were only two on the blenny's top fin, and
one on the gramma' head, are not the actual parasite themselves, is their
absence after or during treatment even a fairly reliable sign that treatment is
working? Shouldn't the spots disappearing mean nothing more than the human
equivalent of a scab falling off?
<Mmm; these spots may be from irritation of some sort... mucus accumulating....
Even Trematodes (seeing them btw very commonly here in Curacao the last week
I have read that Cupramine may kill Ich at levels as low as .25 but I don't want
to take the chance of under treating,
<Ah yes; and deep-embedded parasites, ones on fishes w/ thick mucus; even some
"Crypt ""races" can be resistant to copper exposure>
particularly since my bicolor has not been eating well. I think he should be ok
eating only a little so long as I can complete the treatment in a reasonable
amount of time, say three weeks total. I am using a SeaChem test. My ammonia is
good and I have been doing 20% water changes every three days, matching the
temp, ph, SG, and Cupramine level in the new water with that of the tank prior
<Should test and replace the copper every day>
Besides that, the tank was fully cycled prior to treatment. I will remove
Cupramine after treatment and let my tank remain fallow for 72 days total.
<I and you very likely appreciate the vagaries of copper use... Hence my
swerving allegiance to Quinine compounds (and always prevention via dips/baths,
careful livestock selection, optimized, stable environment, good nutrition....)
over recent years. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching... plus copy f'/Trematodes
Thanks again. My question regarding the seaweed clip....what I should have said
was...Will the seaweed absorb the Cupramine and then maybe leech back into the
<It will absorb and re-lease very little copper. Not a worry. Again; there is
some cupric ion in all life.... it, the element is an essential, albeit "micro"
But before I read your reply I began to realize that my babies probably don't
have ich at all. I think you are right about this being a case of Trematodes. My
blenny's two fin spots have never changed location, only changed a bit in shape.
I think I assumed ich mostly because of the scratching both fish were doing
before I hospitalized them.
<Ahh! Saw a BUNCH of Flukes on fishes last week in Curacao.... more on more
species than I've ever encountered in the wild. Tellingly, much more prevalent
on fishes resident in some "environmentally modified" (polluted) locations>
I don't ask questions I don't want the answer to...so I will, in the future, use
a quinine compound with good aeration as you suggest.
But......since I have been putting them through two weeks of Cupramine already,
I think I will continue the course at least another week as a preventative
measure (unless, of course, you tell me to do otherwise). I think it would still
be wise to leave my display tank fallow for 72 days since I can't be sure ich
isn't there somewhere.
<Well; not to bum you out, and ignore your self-admonition above, but Crypt is
to degrees most every where there are tropical marine fishes>
After the Cupramine treatment is over, I think I should remove the Cupramine and
<Sure; or could do now. The two compounds as "mix-able">
Does a freshwater bath fit into this equation at some point? I have a bicolor
blenny and a royal gramma.
<Better a FW bath, pH adjusted w/ formalin and aeration... see WWM re such SOPs
and their specific use in eradicating external Trematodes>
Interesting that you saw an increase in Trematodes in the wild as I don't
believe I have ever dealt with this pest in the last 15 years of fish keeping.
<Mmm; very common on (imported) angels, butterflies, tangs..... sharks>
I've dealt with ich before, and the spots always visibly disappeared after a
couple of days in copper. I think I blamed my poor little clay pots for
rendering my Cupramine ineffective, but all along,
<I have used hundreds of gallons of this fine product in commercial settings. It
does precipitate (disappear) by about half every day... interacting with natural
and synthetic seawater... MUCH more so if carbonaceous substrate/s is/are
present. HAS to be assessed (tested for) and "topped up" daily or more often>
I misdiagnosed my problem. The lesson is always the same.....quarantine.
Thanks for your wealth of information and patience.
<A pleasure to relate/share. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching 8/4/15
Thank you, thank you. Now I have a clear course of action.
<Ahh! Am always (most of the time really) querulous whether I/we provide
sufficient direction, background to aid others in resolute action>
I will have to wait a day or two until I can be home all day to execute the plan
and observe the results. I have definitely learned a lot from this, including a
new appreciation for tank size and aggression.
My gramma was fine with the bicolor blenny in the 55 gallon tank, but in the 20
with few hiding spots....not so much. I had to get a tank divider
after a particularly scary lip lock between the two. Since I witnessed the
gramma seek out and stalk the blenny, I have placed the blame upon him. I think
I will be putting the blenny into the display tank a couple of days before the
gramma. I know blennies can be aggressive too, but so far, not mine.
One more question......".crypt is to degrees most everywhere tropical fish
are".....Are you saying that eradicating ich in my main system is unlikely even
after 72 days fallow?
<Unfortunately; yes. Some residual, resident population is likely to remain...
not to be (too) teleological, but "waiting" for environmental, nutritional,
social.... strain/stress, weakened "immunity" of host fishes.... to manifest
itself as infestation>
I've always known this a possibility, and now I am wondering if I should just
put the two fish back into the main system after the dip.
<Is likely what I would do...>
Rather blenny, then gramma to follow. I don't think the hospital is a
particularly great place for either one of them. But still, I am willing to keep
them there for the full 72 if you think it beneficial.
<There is a "tipping point" where isolation and what it entails
encompasses/overwhelms its benefits... as opposed to being placed, left in a
more stable setting>
Side note....I was wondering, in your diving experience, which fish was the most
unusual, rare, or surprising one you every encountered?
<Heeeeee! So many!! Likely a couple of great hammerheads I met up with at about
200 feet doing a bounce dive in the Red Sea (looking for some wrasses for a
Thank you, thank you. -Alyson
<Certainly welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Cupramine leeching 8/8/15
Thanks again. So I did a freshwater dip with Methylene blue (as I was able to
get this at the LFS). Formalin, I was only able to find online and I did order
it, but wanted to get started asap. He jumped around quite a bit. I did get
worried as I have read that trying to jump is a sign of distress, and I know
blennies are generally sensitive, so he was probably in the solution maybe 5
minutes. I am hoping that the Cupramine for just under three weeks and the small
amount of time with the meth blue worked on his Trematodes.
<... The freshwater may, but copper and Methylene Blue neither do really.
See WWM re Trematodes; their treatment with purposeful Anthelminthics>
I'm sure I will let you know!!!! He is back in his DT, peeking around live
rocks. I want to make him fat and happy before I put his frenemy, the Royal
gramma back in too.
The last email we discussed entrenched crypt populations, and the possible
futility of fallow periods. I will observe these two fish, once they are both in
the 55 together and consider a complete tank overhaul should I suspect
undesirable critters lay waiting. I can do this because I have a spare 90 gallon
laying empty about my home. I just don't care for its location as it is in a
room we don't frequent as much as the 55. This is why I started up the 55 and
not the 90. Too many rooms, too much cleaning, tanks and otherwise. Of course, I
always knew having both tanks eventually running would be a matter of time, as
this is quite the addiction.
Thank you, thank you. Alyson R
Re: Cupramine leeching... Poss. fluke on Blenny, trtmt.
Hello again. It has been about 6 weeks since we discussed my crypt-turned-flukes
problem and all is (mostly) well in my little piece of the ocean. Here's the
thing....my bicolor blenny, who seemed ok for the first 5 weeks after his
Cupramine (misdiagnosis) then freshwater dip, is flashing a bit.
<Mmm; some flashing is natural>
Over the last week, I have been looking for signs of ich, and it appears to me
that he may have a fluke issue again. He has an irregular, small spot on his
dorsal fin, in the same place as last time. Maybe he never fully eradicated the
original flukes, or they could be in my system. I am a bit reluctant to
freshwater dip again, as he didn't like it last time, but I have the formalin
you recommended and will likely do this. I have some conflicting info regarding
dipping blennies. I have read that they should
not be dipped, and you recommended me to dip them in previous
<Though small (unless very small specimens), blennies, blennioid fishes are
slimy (again; unless quite sick) and capable of withstanding dipping procedures.
Better this than extended periods of isolation/quarantine and the stress and
starvation there that all too often leads to their loss>
Of course, I could hospitalize and treat with PraziPro. Being human, I would
prefer the shorter course of action...i.e......dipping. I do love this little
guy, named Sam I Am, and don't want to lose him, especially to my impatience. I
got him as a little guy, maybe less than an inch, and he is over three inches
now, gorgeous coloring, delightfully peaceful benevolent dictator of my tank. By
the way....returning him to my display from the hospital tank a couple of weeks
before the Royal gramma totally established a serene pecking order, even better
than before treatment! The two used to
tolerate each other, now they swim together. So.....to dip or not to dip?
<Up to you; I would... oh, and look to see if the "spot" releases, and gently
pinch it off with your fingers if not>
Thanks for your enduring patience and advice. Alyson R.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
I believe it is about a week since we last spoke. Since then, about 8
days ago, I have used Prazi pro on my tank, turning off my skimmer and
Both angelfish, the blue face, and French angel, whom each had one
clouded eye, have improved 100 percent. Both eyes are now clear, and
they are both eating.
So I believe it is safe to say, I did have a fluke infestation,
<VERY common w/ wild-caught angels... Should ALWAYS be treated
prophylactically by importers... The better wholesalers do this...
sometimes a few of the collectors>
that probably killed the last 4 angelfish I had in the last 8 weeks. My
plan is to run it a few more days, totaling ten days, and then pulling
it out getting skimmer and bio pellet reactor back online.
My question is, the blueface, although he is eating, and both of his
eyes are now clear, looks to have some type of abrasion under his
Looks kind of like someone took a scalpel, and removed about a 1/2 inch
by 1/2 portion of his skin.
<Perhaps residual... from the Flukes and/or treatment>
My first guess was the flukes ate away at that area, but in reality this
pretty much happened after 2-3 days of treating the tank. My next guess
was some type of secondary bacterial infection. After scrolling the web
a couple of days, I really do not know, and therefore I am unsure if I
let it go, or pull him out and use some type of antibiotic on him.
<I'd leave off on further med.s>
Is this common with flukes, especially after treatment has already
<Not uncommon. BobF>
Praziquantel and AmQuel
Hi WetWebMedia Team,
I have a Vrolik's Wrasse that has been in my tank for over two years. In
the past month his abdomen has become quite swollen.
I am guessing it is worms but not sure how he got them as all other fish
<Mmm, might be something it ate... in the system... that doesn't "agree
with it"... worms, cnidarians...>
I have removed him to a quarantine tank and started treatment with
Praziquantel and Metronidazole.
<I wouldn't... instead; a simple immersion bath or adding Epsom is the
route I'd go>
The tank is only 12 gallons and I want to add AmQuel to control any
ammonia spikes but am worried the AmQuel may bind the medications. I
have not been able to find any clear guidance on the internet so of
course I am turning to Wet Web for advice. thanks in advance. Regards,
<As far as I'm aware these two can be used together. If in doubt, I'd
write the manufacturers re. Bob Fenner>
|Re: Microscopic images
Here's more images.
<Some neat ones; 50, 13, and 12 are flukes... the last for sure; showing the
opisthaptor. 59, 60... some sort of crustacean; maybe an amphipod judging
from the legs... 79 and 81 are skin cells (and a color/chromatophore)... on
a ctenoid scale (you can see the serrated edge downward in this view)
I was wondering if you happen to see any information on the new research
into garlic extract (Allium) being effective in controlling Neobenedenia
<Not in recent times; but I haven't been searching for it/this. I'd take a
look on a large database. See WWM re doing such searches. Bob Fenner>
Oh yes... Fluke
Scale, skin cells, chromatophore
|Re: Microscopic images, Fluke ID,
Thanks Bob for the great feedback! I do have more images but they are
on my microscope. The fluke I identified as Neobenedenia girellae.
I could be off base on that. I've been dealing with this
fluke since March mostly using PraziPro to no avail. I came across research
from China stating that Praziquantel is not as effective against this
species of flukes as others.
<Interesting. There are other Anthelminthics... as you likely are aware>
This led me to new research (published in August) stating the
effectiveness of garlic extract and Asaragopsis taxicormis against marine
flukes. They are both very interesting reads. Albeit preliminary perhaps
Thanks again for identifying these images!! Oh and feel free to use them if
the need arises.
<Ah, thank you. Bob Fenner>
Re: Microscopic images 9/2/13
I am aware of other Anthelminthics, however, most are harder on the fish
than PraziPro. Are there any that you would recommend?
<Mmm, best to refer you to what is posted/archived on WWM; and maybe one
Re: Microscopic images 9/3/13
Very interesting article!! Thank you:)
FW dipping 3/28/13, flukes, Prazi use in DTs/Reefs
Hi crew! I believe I have some of my fish have gill flukes in the
main tank. I have a Flame Centropyge in a QT and did a dip on him
today....holy cow!!! It was disgusting! He had 20-30 flukes on him and I
never saw them on the fish. Anyway, I want to dip the fish from the main
tank but I don't know if any of them are contraindicated for freshwater
dips. Occupants are:
Solorensis Wrasse, Canary Blenny, Hi Fin Red Banded Goby, Sleeper Goby
and a Halichoeres leucoxanthus. The Canary Blenny and the
Sleeper Goby have been scratching for over a week but no one has spots.
Of course the dip will be pH, temp matched and aerated. Thank you!
<These fishes/species are all good candidates for dipping, short
immersion baths. Bob Fenner>
Re: FW dipping 3/28/13
Thank you, Bob
<Welcome Jenn! B>
Re: FW dipping 3/28/13
Just went to check on the Flame in the QT and he is hanging out at the top
of the water right under the HOB filter. He's been in the QT 2 weeks. Is
this normal considering all the flukes that came off of him? Jenn
<Not unusual behavior... small volumes, being stressed by handling... B>
FW dipping 3/29/13
Thanks Bob. I didn't think he would make it through the night but so far
he has. I have a issue with the main tank. Ok, here goes: I think some
of the fish in the main tank have flukes.
<Trematodes are very common (ubiquitous almost) on marine fishes... some
are quite species, genus specific; others more general in their
Reason I think this is 3 days after adding the Canary Blenny he started to
scratch on the sand. A few days later the sleeper goby started to
scratch, although he stopped a day or so later. Then the yellow wrasse
scratched a couple of times. Now the Sol<o><not a>rensis, who is
like a dog, is hiding a lot. They are all still eating, no spots and all
but the Blenny are hiding. This has been going on for 8 days. I
dipped the Canary Blenny and it looked like little worms were in the
bucket but I can't be 100% sure they were worms. Also there were things
that looked like little flukes, again not positive. I did dip the Goby
today for 5 minutes. I didn't see anything come off him that I could
identify except what I think is sand.
Finally, my question, should I 1. QT all the fish and treat with
2. FW dip fish, put back in main tank and keep watch? There is
definitely something going on in the tank, I just can't figure out what
it is. Sorry for the long email and thank you!
<You could try the Prazi... toxic to all worms... B>
Re: FW dipping 3/29/13
I've read that some have used PraziPro in a reef tank with no
<Mmm, not likely "none">
however that makes me nervous. Have you heard that it can affect the
biological filter? My LFS told me that it could even though the PraziPro
bottle says it won't. Your thoughts?
<... won't affect nitrifiers, denitrifiers directly... but killing off
large numbers, biomass of Vermes can have bad consequences... One should
be prepared to counter, or move intentional livestock. B>
Re: dipping 3/29/13
I do have quite a few Vermes, red, pink and yellow ones I'd like to
So it looks like they are going into the QT with the Flame and all will
get PraziPro. Thank you kind sir:) Jenn
<Ah, good, and welcome. BobF>
FW dipping; Prazi use 4/8/13
Hi crew! I am currently treating a Flame angelfish, Spotted Goby and a
Yellow Wrasse in a QT with PraziPro for flukes. I
started the treatment on Sunday. For two days the fish hid and did not
eat. On day 3 they came out of hiding and their color returned. On day
for the angelfish scratched and started losing color.
<Change the... oh, see this below>
On day five I did a 50% water change and put in a poly filter.
Forgetting that the poly filter was in I redosed as per their
instructions. Five hours later I realized my mistake and took out the I
did not put in more PraziPro because I was afraid of an overdose. I did
a freshwater dip for five minutes on the flame angelfish and got 10
flukes off him. My question:
should I do a water change and do the regimen again?
<Yes I would>
I know the second dose is to kill eggs. How many days after the first dose
should the second dose go in?
The instructions say 5-7 days but that can leave a big window for eggs to
hatch and reinfest the tank/fish.
I ordered a microscope to start doing gill scrapings, etc.
Thank you for your help! Jennifer
<Thank you, Bob Fenner>
Re: FW dipping 4/8/13
Ok so I see where my mistake was. I dosed 5 days after..eggs had
Thanks Bob..you rock! :) Jennifer
<And roll! Cheers Jenn. BobF>
I have a Flame Angel in a 20 gal QT. He is being treated for flukes
with PraziPro and it is not working.
<...Really? Are you sure these are flukes? Are you using the Prazi
correctly? Is it an old/er package? I'd switch to another vermifuge.
These are gone over on WWM>
Per an email from Hikari I did a 50% water change and dosed with
PraziPro. I repeated this process 3 more times every 3 days.
Yesterday was the third day after the last (4th) dose. This morning he
<... could be scratching for other reasons>
I did a dip on him and flukes! I liked the PraziPro because the fish
tolerated it well and ate.
What other treatment would you recommend? I have done a ton of research
and it all points to PraziPro. I do have QuickCure (Formalin, Malachite
Green) on hand. Could I use this a bath (30-60 minutes)?
<... not this long, a duration at full/ish strength, no. Toxic; very>
Will this kill any eggs that are on the fish?
<?... there are no such things>
I have been fighting these things since April 1. All other fish seem to be
doing well. Thank you for your help! Jen
<More reading... less toxic chemical use. Bob Fenner>
Yep, I'm sure it's flukes. There are about 4 of them in the bucket
I dipped him in. I am saving them to look at once my microscope arrives.
I bought the PraziPro from my LFS but there is no expiration date on it.
I'm going to order some online today. Maybe that's what the problem is.
I don't want to use anything toxic on the fish.
<Maybe and good>
I've read that some species will lay eggs on the fish. I will keep
researching. Thank you
<... didn't know this re Trematode repro.... BobF>
I'm still battling flukes with the Flame Angel. It appears they are
<? Are you absolutely sure these are flukes?>
At Hikari's advice the dosage was tripled and they haven't died. I did a
freshwater dip on the Flame yesterday and didn't see anything come off.
I saved the water to look at through the microscope, which arrived
today. I did find "something" that looked like a fluke, but it on a
slide and yuck!
It/they were moving. And they've been in freshwater for 24 hrs!
They appear to be encased perhaps an egg?
Could/if I send it to you could you either tell me what I'm dealing with
or refer me to someone that could identify these things? Thank you
<Do send along well resolved images. I "do" fish pathology... in fact
the third gig of the newest Fish Health Conference is coming back up:
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
No, I'm not 100% positive this is flukes.
<Do appear to be>
The first time I dipped the Flame there were flukes. But that was a
month ago and several doses of PraziPro ago. But he has faded
color, hiding, hanging out in the return and at the top of the water.
He's also stopped eating in the last 2 days.
<May be the effects of the Prazi...>
Do you think it's possible that since the dosage of PraziPro was tripled
this sent the Trematodes into a reproducing frenzy?
They seemed to have gotten worse since this dosing regimen.
<Time to switch to another/different vermifuge/anthelminthic... Maybe
Levamisole if you can get i>
Here are a few pictures. I do have a video if that will help but I
will have to send it separately. Thank you, Bob!
<Have seen enough here. B>
Thanks Bob! I will work on getting the Levamisole. I don't know why
the PraziPro is not working. According to Hikari they have yet to come
across any Trematode that it won't kill.
<My experience matches theirs>
Thanks again, Bob:). Jen
Bob, sorry, forgot to ask. How much on dosage, frequency, etc. I've been
researching this and can only find Levamisole being used for AEFW.
<Mmm, yes; the same; gone over here:
I'm ordering I today. Jen
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
So what could be my problem?
<... a few guesses: Something defective w/ the compound, some sort of
resistance, some countered condition of your water>
This is the third bottle I've used. Is there any way to tell the type of
<Mmm, yes; there are systematists in this field... morphological, genetic
... Microcotyle? (most infects gills of Angelfish).
If the PraziPro won't kill them then will anything else? Jen
<Hopefully so, yes. For sure formalin/formaldehyde... A biocide, as in
"life" and "cease" (caedere in L.). B>
Re: Flukes/PraziPro 5/2/13
Oh! So the same dosage for flukes as AEFW! Got it:) thanks
That was my thinking so I ordered powder Praziquantel.
I didn't want to but I did a formalin dip yesterday on the Flame. He did ok
through out it. I then put him into a sterilized tank.
<... dangerous, but effective>
I did read a paper on hypo being effective against flukes and the eggs.
<Not often entirely. B>
I did a lot of reading before I did the dip. It was aerated for 2 hrs prior,
timed and I watched him constantly for stress. He actually did more swimming
in there than he did before and after the dip. I don't think he's
going to make it. I just dosed him with PraziPro again.
It has, in the past, given him relief so at this point I have nothing to
<I'd summarily pH-adjusted formalin bath this fish and move it to a
non-infested system. B>
When you say pH adjusted is the water to be freshwater or salt?
<.... see WWM re>
I used saltwater with the formalin dip (45 minutes)
<Way too long...>
yesterday then moved him into clean tank. I've read this can be done every
3 days for 4 treatments...kind of like tank transfer method for Ich.
I used the PraziPro because it did help him for weeks, to the point I
thought we had kicked the flukes. It's only in the last week they got bad.
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster
Bob, thank you. I see the porcupine puffer seems to have either
<Common; and easily cured w/ Prazi/quantel, other Anthelminthics>
or broken spines here and there on his body (approximately 6 in total).
It seems to have increased over the week from 2. I reviewed FAQs for
puffers/Burrfish on disease, I see a few other mentions of this
observation but it seems conclusions go in either direction.
I wonder if it is possible that Ich scratching or a tankmate caused
broken spines, or if in fact he has a parasitic worm problem.
<Could have either/both>
No other tankmates have this issue. I have not observed him scratching.
When Ich spots were present on fish, the Bluehead wrasse seemed
interested in picking off Ich spots on tankmates (although none would
allow), but he doesn't show interest in the puffer. The puffer is eating
heartily and active.
I have PraziPro on hand, and copper treatment / water changes continue.
Any guidance? Thanks! Dave
<I'd treat all the fishes w/ this compound, now. B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Thank you Bob. At a quick search I can't see whether attempting the
PraziPro treatment for my Fowlr display tank alongside my ongoing
Cupramine treatment is ill-advised. Perhaps I should check with Amanda
at Seachem, or would you know?
<Ill-advised? I would not treat live rock... or sand... as these almost
always have a plethora of worm species to phyla... whose deaths create a
real bio-hazard. B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster... fluke trtmt. f' as well
OK, I have wondered if the Crypto-Pro (completed) and Cupramine
(ongoing) treatments have already caused the rock inhabitant die-offs to
occur...given the ongoing Ammonia/Nitrate levels that
register...however it's not a good time to gamble that these will not
raise further so I will treat outside the tank.
<...? Am I given to understand you're treating w/ the rock present? I
would NOT do this>
I will attempt PraziPro bath/baths for the puffer first. Do I wait until
I observe signs of external flukes/worms on the others before attempting
the same? I don't see any signs on the other tank inhabitants. I wonder
if this is something that is/will only plague the puffer? I may have
great difficulty removing the others from the tank also, but will do
whatever needs to be done and as you suggest...
<... have already answered this... archived on WWM>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Hi Bob, Sorry for the confusion, I had treated the whole FOWLR tank
(rock included) with Crypto Pro (2 weeks) and Cupramine (ongoing to
finish at 2 weeks), but I will not treat for worms/flukes in the main
tank (with the rock) as I understand you are strongly advising against
it. Sorry...and I will reference the WWM archives regarding my question
of whether I treat the puffer's tankmates who have not yet shown the
Again I thank you, Dave
<Thank you for the clarification B>
Re: Help! Ich? Prelude to disaster 8/27/12
Bob, thank you. I researched the archives more closely and have come up
with some treatment paths on the newly emerging worm issue. If I may run
the by you to elicit your suggestion on the optimal path.
As you may recall, my fish have been through a lot with ongoing display
tank Crypto Pro and Copper treatments. I am maintaining Cupramine in the
tank, coming upon day 14 on Tuesday. I have been maintaining a .2-.3ppm
I described likely/increasing worm pathogens on the porcupine puffer,
appearing as stray/limp spines. I also have noticed black Ich spots on
the hippo tang, greatly increasing in just a day's time. Is it likely to
be the same pathogen species?
<Not likely the same, no... Trematodes (the most populous such worm
parasites) tend to be more species, family specific>
Or, is it more likely to be separate species that are taking advantage of
these organisms with reduced immunity from the ongoing copper?
<Can't tell Dave... need to examine under a 'scope>
You have advised that I treat all fish with Prazi, now. And, that I
absolutely do use Prazi in the display tank further (i.e., with the
I have a challenge in that the already stressed fish will, on the whole,
be very difficult to remove from and put back into from the main tank
for daily treatment, and I don't currently have a large quarantine
option to accommodate all fish.
Herein I see several options:
1) Continue Cupramine treatment at an increased level (i.e. above .35),
<... again, I would not do this. Too toxic>
which would target the worms (as recommended by Seachem). I see in the
archives that copper is can be recommended/successful in treating these
While this could increase the risk to the fish, it would allow them to
forego daily chases/baths and target the worms. I am nervous about
higher copper and wonder if this is a poor option.
<It is IMO/E>
2) Continue Cupramine at existing dose to full treatment duration,
administer Prazi Pro baths to easily caught fish now (i.e., hippo in
isolation, puffer), monitor and remove/treat the difficult-to-catch fish
if/when fluke problem causes them to be lethargic. This seems risky in
that I must rely on significant pathogen damage to the faster fish
before I can catch/treat (and raises likelihood that infestation would
continue for all fish).
3a) Option 1 or 2 plus beginning display tank Paraguard treatment after
the full Cupramine treatment (Amanda from Seachem suggested this as a
fluke treatment alternative). This would help manage all pathogenic
conditions (although add to a long treatment regimen for the fish).
3b) Same as Option 3a, except end Cupramine treatment early/now and
start Paraguard ASAP.
Any feedback on which is best? Or is there a different suggested option?
<I'd go w/ 2 as my first choice 3a as my second>
Thanks again and again...Dave
butterfly / Praziquantel and Metronidazole usage.
<And some of the tender gender Eric.>
I recently introduced a copper-band butterfly fish in my quarantine.
After two days of eating well I decided to start medicated her for
internal parasites. The only med with Praziquantel that I found
available was combined with Metronidazole. 37.5 mgs of Prazi and 135
mgrs of Metro.
<A good combo. for such application>
The recommended dosage that I new was safe is 100-150 mgs/40 lts
of Prazi and some 125 mgs /40 lts of Metro.
Both meds in the web mention that there little chance of overdose.
I medicated my quarantine with 60 mgrs of Prazi and 250 mgrs of Metro
simultaneously. I now realize that the Metro was twice as high as I
should have dose the Quarantine water.
After 12 hours of treatment the fish was heavily breathing and gasping
for air. I then did a 100 % water change but the fish did not improve.
Until today the fish lies down heavily breathing. Its been 24 hrs now.
She is stable but not improving as I would hope. Can you please comment
on my dosage. Is it a bad idea to medicate both Prazi & Metro
<That stated as "safe" s/b fine>
What would be your recommend sequence medication and dosage for the two
<Likely just the one dose... three day, week's exposure. Better by far
to get these compounds inside the fish/es (via foods). See WWM re>
As per the info I have described is the reaction normal or her condition
( recent capture ) could of caused a liver damage or
and at last in your opinion is there hope?
Thanks in advance.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
I was able to find Praziquantel in the form of Droncit tabs (50 mg) but
cannot find in the web, the proper dosage or precise way to administer.
I have heard that it can be diluted in vodka then poured in quarantine
water day 1 and redose day 6, but have not found a clear gr/lt dosage.
I also have heard that it can be administered in the food but how can
you assure the correct grams if it will depend on how much the fish will
it is all so confusing. How would you proceed with this med?
<... search on Google. Praziquantel dosage aquariums>
Thanks for your time.
Hi Crew, I am performing hyposalinity 1.009 to my
300gallon. Can I turn on the ozonizer?
<Likely so... you may well get different readings per the output
setting as for your regular specific gravity>
2nd question , can Cupramine and Praziquantel mix and
Thank you very
<Am not much of a fan of hyposalinity treatments. Do read re on WWM.
Re: Hi 3/28/11
Thank you so much. I had miss out this. Can I use Praziquantel
during performing hyposalinity at 1.009? Do I need to reduce
the dosage. Thank you.
<Same dosage at any concentration of salt presence. B>
PraziPro treatment 8/29/10
You have been very helpful to me in the past with my Achilles tang, he
is doing great, thanks so much.
My question now is regarding PraziPro treatment and feeding live
blackworms. I have a large QT tank, 100g, with a yellow Coris wrasse,
carpenters flasher wrasse, Longnose hawk, 2 purple Firefish and a
Copperband butterfly. The Copperband is eating Mysis and picks at
clams, I am also considering live blackworms but have been told the
worms may bring unknown pathogens.
<Not for marine organisms, no. Freshwater perhaps, though this is
rare... vs. the old wild-collected Tubificid worm days>
The Copperband has started head twitching and I suspect
flukes,<Skin/slime scraping and microscopic analysis... I would not
guess, treat on the basis of this behavioral observation alone>
I have had a lot of success in the past with PraziPro treatment but
wanted to be sure it would be a safe med to use with the current
<Is but... likely unnecessary. Some twitching behavior is natural,
and in captive/QT conditions even more so>
Thanks for your time and excellent site.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: PraziPro treatment 9/6/2010
Thank You for your help again Mr. Fenner, my Copperband is excellent,
loving Mysis and blackworms.
The flasher wrasse in QT has 2 white patches on her side, not raised,
it just looks like someone took an eraser and erased some of the
colour, any idea what this would be?
<Yes... most/very likely "simply" marks from a physical
trauma ("jumping")... I'd move this fish ASAPractical
back to the main/display system>
I would send a picture but she hides when the camera comes out, she is
eating well. Thanks Again, Tracey
<And you for this update Tracey. BobF>
Praziquantel in presence of copper
I have an interesting quandary and I hope you might be able to help. I
have a marine tank that I just finished a 30 day copper treatment in
for a Cryptocaryon infection. I am in the process of water changing to
bring the copper concentration down and now I have a Benedenia
infestation (verified by microsopy) that is taking animals down. I have
water changed 25% twice in the last two weeks and copper is parked at
..10ppm- didn't budge after the most recent water changes. (I am
using Accuvac ampule reagents and Hach spectrophotometer)
<Okay... I wouldn't be overly concerned re the residual
My question is: what do you know about using 2ppm Praziquantel in the
presence of .10ppm copper?
BTW:) if my tank was not 45,000 gallons, I would just catch everybody
and Prazi bathe them but that is not an option.
<Understood, and not a problem to mix these here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Praziquantel in presence of copper
<Welcome Heidi. B>
Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem Acropora Eating Flatworm
control, chem. 1/3/10
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW
I've been doing a little bit of reading on the web in regards to
treating your entire reef tank for AEFW using
Levamisole. There seems to be a little bit of inconsistency in
terms of the amount to dose your tank and how to carry out the
procedure with minimal loss and hardship on the tank. Would you be able
to provide me a procedure on using this product properly?
<Mmm, yes... I can/will paraphrase what is stated/furthered by Ed
Noga (Fish Disease, Diagnosis & Treatment)... for Prolonged
immersion, 10 mg of Levamisole HCl/l (28 mg per gallon) per Butcher
, I in no way would hold you responsible if anything bad happened... I
must treat the tank though before populations begin to grow larger. I
noticed a few bit marks underneath a coral which had been losing purple
coloration on the tips...I now know why...seeing little brown egg sacks
in a couple places surrounding the base of the coral and white bite
marks further up the main branches, but not too many of them. I am
planning a 3-4 week treatment using Levamisole, what's your
recommended dosage/gallon? And how much exposure do I give the tank
with Levamisole before executing a big water change/carbon...
<A week if no otherwise adverse signs>
I have noticed a few other Acropora losing color here and there,
I'm confident that once these worms are free and clear, I should
begin to see a good amount of coloration start to return. This is my
second year keeping and sps tank, first year I had a run in with red
bugs which was easily treated in a 3 week period using interceptor, now
I'm experiencing AEFW but without a solid method of
I sincerely appreciate your time and help,
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem
Ok, I'm going to order that book as this is the second time
I've heard of that author.
<Is expensive, but well worth it>
So let me state this clearly what I plan to do:
Add 4592 milligrams Levamisole to 164 gallons (reef system volume). Add
directly to tank? or dilute and add slowly?
<Dilute and add slowly>
And don't change any water in the tank for a week unless noticing
adverse affects earlier?
Does this sound right?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem, Levamisole use
At end of first week of tank being dosed, I will perform 50% water
change. Mandatory GAC? or no.
How much time after w/c do I wait before adding next dose of ~4.5 gram
I have eggs so I will be dealing with AEFW entire life cycle which = 4
consecutive weekly treatment correct? or 5? In nutshell, 50% w/c
followed by new dose every Saturday for a month?
Does the skimmer take out the Levamisole?
Would it be better to leave the skimmer running all week without the
<I would leave going. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem 1/4/10
And because this is a prolonged immersion treatment, I noticed the dose
is significantly less than what a dip would be comprised of.
Does this mean the flatworms will be slowly dying out in my tank from
lower concentration. Can you give me a little info on what to expect
after first dose, do they fall off within a day? 2 days?..3?
<Only experience can/will tell. Is variable>
Being that they are nearly invisible, should I be looking for healing
Again, much appreciated.
<Certainly welcome. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem, Levamisole
sourcing s -- 01/12/2010
I've been unfortunate thus far in my quest for obtaining Levamisole
I looked at this site which appeared promising:
but have not heard a peep back from them and its been a little over two
weeks. Might you have any sources from your extensive list of reef
people contacts that I could buy some from?
<Try: "buying Levamisole on line" in Google... or your
local veterinarian. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problems --
Thanks, just ordered some from Cole-Parmer.com, I got 20 grams for
Should be enough for 4 treatments (4.5grams ea.)/4 consecutive
<Expensive! But... Thank you for the input. BobF>
So it turns out, Cole-Parmer.com doesn't ship Levamisole
to residential addresses.
Bummer... back to square one.
<Is there not a friendly Veterinarian nearby?>
I think I may have to tear apart my reef and start over with Acroporas
leaving the Monti's and Seriatoporas, anything not Acro....,
dip and quarantining the Acro's may end up being the only way to
deal with this. I would much rather dose tank but doesn't appear
like it will be that easy.
Only problem now is establishing Acro quarantine.
<There are other Anthelminthics... Read here:
and the linked files above. BobF>
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem.
Levamisole, bad reaction series 1/26/10
Hey there Bob,
Received 20 grams of Levamisole Hydrochloride 99% strength. (For
1) Weighed out 4.6 grams on scale for 1st dose for 164 gallons system
volume for my sps reef.
2) Mixed the dosage into 5 gallons of tank water in a bucket and added
slowly to system.
Observations from 1 1/2hr exposure:
3) SPS coral polyps started to close up tightly almost immediately
after adding treatment, 20 or so minutes later..copepods were whirling
around the tank dying out
4) Small bristleworms started to appear dead at about the same time
<To be expected>
5) Tennenti tang's color was dark and eye's appeared to be
6) Rest of the fish usually are out and about for 5pm feeding time, all
were in hiding except the true Perculas.
7) Took a nap for an hr
8) came back and polyps were still closed, noticed more copepods dead,
more bristle worms too, couldn't tell if AEFW's were dead too
but I'd imagine must have taken some if not all out, except any
eggs of course
9) Got nervous about leaving the tank with full treatment overnight, so
did a 75-80% water change on the tank after power heading off all
corals and live rock for detritus/and possibly stubborn AEFW on
10) Tank therefore only was exposed to the 28mg/gallon (Noga's
prolonged recommendation) for 1:30hrs.
I don't think there would be any success if we went a whole week as
previously discussed or even overnight at that dosage. Guessing there
would have been some fish loss the next day for sure.
From what I can see, the drug is very very powerful, much much more so
than interceptor. I would change the prolonged tank treatment dosage to
even half or 1/4 of the 28mg/gal. maybe something along the lines of 7
or 14mg/gal. wouldn't that slowly kill them over a week's time
with less stress to the tank's inhabitants?
My hope is that we can find a treatment procedure that isn't too
harsh on the tank yet wipes these guys out. What do you think my next
step should be in this process? another treatment next week?, perhaps a
different dosage and/or exposure time?
<I would wait... see what happens... I suspect all vermiform life is
Appreciate your thoughts on this.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW Problem,
Levamisole rxn. series 1/27/10
Fish are still a bit shy this morning. Found a big dead Bristleworm
laying on top the sand. I placed two sacs of carbon in the sump and
cleaned the skimmer...the Levamisole itself is pretty harsh, but
assuming it killed off flatworms, they release pretty harmful toxins
themselves when they die, so thought this would be a good idea to
absorb any shenanigans circulating in the tank.
<Yes... a good point for sure>
It's gonna be very tough to tell when there are no flatworms in the
tank, maybe take a couple months to really determine that based on
coral health and no more evidence of bites... Will partially bleached
coral bases grow
back or not so much?
<Will grow back given time, good care, propitious circumstances.
Re: re: Fwd: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW
Alright, so here's an update. After the 1.5 hr treatment @ 4.6
grams/160 gallon system last Thursday. It appeared to have wiped out
many bristleworms, pods, and hopefully the aefw's. However not the
case after a little power heading on the corals today (Sunday evening)
discovered a few mongrel size aefw flew off, not too many, but the
point being that the treatment wasn't long enough to take a toll on
them. This treatment would have killed the fish any longer than what
they were exposed to. So now I'm shaking my head...saying now
<Indeed... maybe removing the desired livestock for one last
I managed to capture a worm and experiment Salifert Exit on him. So far
doesn't respond at all to recommended dosage. Tried 4 drops per
gallon which is way above dosage by 4x the amount, worm kind of lifts
his head up at times but resumes function. In any case, so far at this
dosage that doesn't even work, I would have to buy 10 bottles of
flatworm exit just to treat the tank 3 weeks in a row. So this method
doesn't seem too promising...
Looking for other options though..
<Other Anthelminthics. You know where to search. BobF>
Re: re: Fwd: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: re: AEFW
Most recent update...on AEFW that is....
At 4 drops per gallon with Salifert Flatworm Exit, flatworm was dead at
8:30 when I came home from dinner, started with only 2 drops at 5pm,
then added 2 more for 4 drops total at 6pm. Didn't die after 1
hr.... looks like
after 2 1/2 hrs it killed him off. So according to the recommended
dosage of 4 drops per 5 gallons (per Salifert instructions), you would
need to increase dosage to 4 DROPS PER GALLON to rid AEFW, and add this
much for 3 - 4 consecutive weeks to kill entire AEFW
So, I may just end up getting lots of Salifert flatworm exit and using
that since it is not as harmful to the fish/reef system as Levamisole
This method seems to be a successful in tank treatment for AEFW :)
Now let's just tell Salifert to up the bottle size of EXit and
we're all good :)
<You might want to try your own serial dilution of Praziquantel...
PraziPro, use, flukes Hello, I recently
purchased a Klein Butterfly, after being in a quarantine tank for 2
weeks (with nothing apparently wrong) I added it to the display tank.
Now I think it may have flukes because it scratches against rocks a
lot. <Mmm, might I ask, how much is "a lot?". Most fishes
can/do "scratch some"...> Catching it would be very
difficult and would stress out it as well as others. The tank is a 180
g reef with many SPS and LPS and snails, no shrimp or crabs. PraziPro
states that it is safe for most aquarium inhabitants, but I am
skeptical. If left untreated will the flukes spread to others? <Mmm,
not often... turns out that most Trematodes are rather species, genus,
family specific> Are there any whole tank treatments? Thanks Mike
Winston <There are... but I urge patience here... Have another few
weeks go by... see if the "scratching" abates... not worth
the risk of killing all (and there may indeed be a bunch!) of your
Praziquantel sensitive life here. Bob Fenner>
Re: PraziPro, flukes 10/3/08 Thanks for
the reply, well he is scratching enough to cause some scales to come
off, <! This is too much. Let's see... there are several, okay a
few reasons why fishes "scratch"...> no bleeding but looks
bad. I added some iodine to water thinking it might help with wound.
<Good> So my other fish include yellow and hippo tang,
swallowtail angel, blue throat trigger, dispar Anthias, Sixline wrasse
and some clowns. If flukes are not an issue to others I will hold off
any tank treatment, I was concerned others might be infected. <A
reasonable concern. I am more inclined to consider other (Protozoan)
possibilities... Still, at this juncture, I would not "add"
anything here... The fact that the range of fish life you list is doing
fine... leads me to wonder re other "itchy" potentials...
maybe this fish brushed up against something irritating... BobF>
Thanks again. Mike
Help with Hydroid Myrionema. - 04/14/08 Hello Again.
I believer you are correct on what i have (hydroid Myrionema). We
have a hard time getting rid of it. <Yes... can be a real
bugger> I have searched on line for remedies. With my tank
being 200 gal. reef safe with the following (blue tang/unicorn
tang/clown tang/2 yellow tangs/cleaner wrasse/Lunare wrasse/blue
damsel/Banggai cardinal/pajama cardinal/blood red Hawkfish and a
mated pair of green mandarin gobies) a clean up crew and we have
feather dusters/tube anemones/polyps/frogspawn/leather corral and
mushrooms. We do water changes for nitrate levels, and have
decided to move to the Zeo system. However i wanted to know what
this Panacur is all about. On line people have used it to get rid
of the hydroids, but does it work, and will it help me. Thanks MC
<Mmmm, what are the active ingredients in this product? Bob
Re: Help with Hydroid Myrionema. 4/16/08 April
15, 2008 Hi again. I'm sorry the product people are using to
get rid of Hydroid Myrionema is Panacur, the main active
ingredients is Fenbendazole. <Ahh!> I wanted to know if i
could use it? <Mmm, well... it may well kill off a good deal
of the "wormy" life in the system... is an
anthelminthic... and most all marine systems, natural and aquarium
have substantial worm faunas... So, at the least I'd have a
good deal of pre-made water ready, be aware that changes may need
to be made... successively, along with the use of chemical
filtrants, change of mechanical media, cleaning of
skimmer/s...> But I wanted to make sure i don't kill off
my tank. <You are wise here> What do you suggest? I'm
at my wits end with this hydroid, (working on it for over 9
months) and if it weren't for my mated pair of green mandarin
gobies, which are doing very well, i would kill of my rock and
start over. <Mmm... I would try some biological controls first
myself... or move all the "desired" livestock elsewhere
for a few weeks, while using the "de-wormer".
Praziquantel Also Bob, I am wondering if you can help me. We
have some incident of Trematodes in our system. These
worm/fluke is in the fish and when we fresh water dip the fish, the
worm came off from the fish. Some people I talk to say to
treat with Praziquantel or PraziPro from Hikari. Do you have
any info as far as treating the entire system with PraziPro (side
effect, other problems etc). Thank you, Fred <Ah, yes. For
Trematodes, treating their systems as well as fish livestock, 2 to 10
mg Praziquantel/liter (or 7.6 mg/gallon)... the lower does for
Monogeneans will do it, the higher for Digenes. There are also methods
(not applicable here) for injection and oral administration, baths...
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Praziquantel Thanks Bob, what about
PraziPro? Is it safe? <Yes... is just Praziquantel and a
stabilizing agent: http://www.uskoi.com/prazipro.htm>
I know it is a lot more expensive but no need to dilute.
<Agreed> I heard you need to dilute Praziquantel with Vodka?
<Heeee! Can use this solvent... or not> Also, how can you tell
the difference between Monogeneans and Digenes. Thank you, Fred
<Mmm, sorry for the added confusion. I would not worry re the
digenetic Trematodes... they can/will perish along with the rest or die
out quickly enough due to the lack of intermediate hosts (Di as in
two... two or more other life forms to pass through before getting to
their determinate host (your fishes)...), as opposed to Monogenes that
have a direct life cycle. Bob Fenner>
What's in Fluke Tabs? Hi Chuck! I bought the Fluke tabs.
Do you know what are the active ingredients? It's not written on
the product. Thanks! Dominique <The active ingredients are
Mebendazole and Trichlorfon.-Chuck>
Praziquantel dosing for sharks - 3/11/05 What Would The
Average Dose For a 2 ft. shark be? <The treatment is based on
weight. It is important to note that Droncit (Praziquantel) is usually
very difficult to come by and usually will need a veterinarian to
prescribe. In light of that these are the recommended treatments for
when you can get your hands on some. For oral treatments the
recommendation is nine milligrams per kilogram of bodyweight once a day
for seven days. The recommended treatment for external Trematodes is a
saltwater bath mixture of 10 milligrams per liter for a three hour bath
every third day for three treatments. As an alternative, 20 milligrams
per liter for 90 minutes every third day of three treatments is not
usually prescribed but can administered. Praziquantel is difficult to
dissolve. Using 95% ETOH will help ( 1 g to 10ml ETOH), or it can be
pressed through a stocking or other fine mesh net. Adding slowly to the
water while stirring may help avoid coagulation. Hope this will help.
Good luck. ~Paul>
Pesticides for killing isopods... Ahhhh, No. 5/10/04 Hi
Guy's <howdy!> Great site! <thanks kindly> Was
wondering what your thoughts are on the use of dog heartworm medication
(Melbemycine oxime) to eradicate Cirolanid Isopods. <a dreadful
idea/advocation... its efficacy runs the gamut, but more importantly,
it will kill far many more desirable crustaceans in the main display
than bad ones. The bad ones should be/have been easily screened
in a proper 4 week quarantine on arrival> I'm aware
I'll lose all crustaceans, at least the ones I don't remove,
but see very few options. <Ahhh.. OK. Although I cannot agree> I
believe they arrived in the aqua cultured LR that I cycled the tank
with. <yes... they are common in Florida live rock... especially
that dreadful heavy stuff from shallow coastal waters (many parasites
there)> Tank has been up and running for about 6 months. The
predatory Isopods made their presence know, at least to me, only this
past week. I've caught and removed 3 pods from two different fish.
<sigh... I regret you have learned this way as many of us do. But QT
is not an option, and must be done for all things wet: fishes, corals,
live rock, sand, plants... everything! There are too many pests,
predators and diseases that can and will be carried in with live
products> A tank raised Perc. And a bi-color angel. The tank is 72g
bow front, 85lbs of LR, 4inch sand bed, Thanks for your thoughts on
this. Mike <remove the fishes to QT and trap for isopods in the
display with meat. Read more on this in the FAQs on this subject in our
archives at wetwebmedia.com. Anthony>