Lake Victoria Cichlids - Still sick? 9/11/09
WWM,
<Jimmy,>
I just want to thank you in advanced. Here is my situation: I purchased a group of 7 Pseudotropheus flavus Chinyankwazi and a group of 7 Pundamilia nyererei Ruti Island.
<Not in the same tank, I hope. Pseudotropheus come from Malawi, which has different water chemistry to Lake Victoria, which is where Pundamilia nyererei come from. So while often sold in the "African Cichlid" section, they need different conditions to do well. There are also substantial differences in temperament. While both aggressive, Pseudotropheus flavus is much more aggressive than Pundamilia nyererei, not to mention twice the length.>
The day I put them in, a noticed 1 of the Flavus swimming kinda funny along with having a bloated stomach. The next morning, I caught him and put him in one of the floating internal breeding houses; I worked all day and came home to find him dead. I assumed it was bloat based on how large is stomach was.
<Could be a variety of things. Physical damage could be one, i.e., internal bleeding, if coupled with bruises and damaged fins. If you put these two species together, then that's definitely a possibility. Another very
possible explanation is a negative reaction to water chemistry changes.
Since the two fish need different water conditions, putting the Victorian cichlids into Malawi water chemistry could be a shock, or vice versa, exposing Malawians to the less hard, slightly above neutral conditions
Victorians want. Careless use of salt can also cause problems: see Malawi Bloat. Back in the day, people used to put "tonic salt" in Malawi tanks, and it seems to have been a major cause of mortality. Again, there are other issues to consider: nitrate concentration, oxygenation, etc.>
There was one more flavus that was breathing hard and laying at the bottom doing nothing - I treat with Metronidazole (using Jungles Parasite clear) which seemed to do nothing.
<And will do nothing, unless the problem is specifically Protozoans of the type treated by this medication, e.g., Hexamita.>
So I went and bought "General Cure" from API and the Flavus made a come back and started to swim and eat.
<Again, no particular reason to expect a cure without knowing what you're treating. Indeed, throwing in multiple treatments without understanding why can do more harm than good. Much to be said for removing sick fish to your hospital tank, observing, and then treating, once you have a diagnosis.>
The whole tank was treated, however I noticed most of the Ruti Islands with a white "nub" sticking out around the anus. There is no red coloration, it is just white and almost looks like a bubble.
<Could be a prolapse; does happen. A common mistake with Mbuna and especially Victorians is to give them mostly meat-based foods (e.g., flake) rather than what they really need, greens! Constipation leads to digestive tract problems, that leads to bacterial infections, and in the infections cause the prolapse.>
Each Ruti has this bump, and for some reason, it is not going away. I want to say it's bloat, but the fish do not appear bloated. They are swimming and they are always, always hungry. I have been doing 30% and 50% water changes along with adding aquarium salts AND Epson salt.
<What do you mean by "aquarium salts"? A Malawi tank should only, repeat ONLY have proper Rift Valley salt mix used; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Salt by itself, i.e., NaCl, can lead to problems, e.g., bloating. Do review the literature on these two cichlid fish groups: there are countless books out there.>
Nothing I do is getting rid of these little white nubs on my Rutis.
Any suggestions? I am sorry I cannot attach a picture, they just wont stay still and catching them among a few hundred pounds of rocks is nearly impossible. I do not want to stress them anyway.
Thanks,
Jimmy
<Do review the needs of the two fish groups being kept here, especially in terms of diet, water chemistry. Likely some mismatch responsible, either directly or in terms of susceptibility to ambient bacterial infections.
Antibiotic treatment and a greens-based diet should help with the prolapse.
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Lake Victoria Cichlids - Still sick? 9/13/09
Neale,
<Jimmy,>
The Flavus and the Ruti can both be put into the same tank, see the following:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1664
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=889
<These two links say nothing of the kind! If you look, there are differences in size, aggression, and, if you read anything about Lake Victoria versus Lake Malawi, water chemistry. Every single book or magazine ever written about these two groups of fish recommends they not be kept together. Sure, you can try, but it's dollars to doughnuts that the much bigger and much more aggressive male Pseudotropheus will bully, perhaps kill, the Pundamilia unless the aquarium is of truly vast size (by which I mean 200 gallons upwards). I've just finished editing an article by an experienced cichlid keeper all about Lake Victoria cichlids. It'll be out in the upcoming Conscientious Aquarist magazine, and I strongly suggest you have a read when that happens.>
As you can see, water hardness, water PH, and temps are all relatively the same.
<I'm relatively the same thing as a chimpanzee, but I don't invite chimps to family reunions. The devil is in the detail, and it's getting the details right that separates expert from casual fishkeepers.>
Both groups are fry, measuring around 1-1.5". There is no aggression between the groups and there is no aggression within each group.
<Still sexually immature. I'm talking about once the males become big enough to stake out territories.>
The fish were shipped to me in separate bags, so the chances that the Flavus died because of injuries do to damage caused by other fish is unlikely. Again, they were shipped in separate bags, so the Rutis and the Flavus were never with each other until put into the tank. When I did put them in, as I said, no aggression or fighting occurred within or among both species.
<OK.>
I do, however, think that its possible that damage happened during shipment; however, if this is the case, why did it only effect 1 fish out of 14?
<The weakest fish is usually picked off first, then the next weakest, and so on.>
I must say, that I do not think water chemistry has anything to do with this. My PH is 8.2. My temp is 82 degrees F. 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, and Nitrate is around 5-10.
<The pH is a bit high for Victorian cichlids; the optimum is around pH 7.5, 10 degrees dH. I note you're not mentioning either carbonate hardness or general hardness, but merely pH. As you hopefully realise, pH is largely unimportant when keeping fish except so far as it is stable from week to week. Hardness and carbonate hardness are substantially more important.>
The aquarium salt I used is the one that API sells (API Aquarium Salt). I have never used table salt, and never will.
<API Aquarium salt is merely repackaged table salt. It's not the same thing as Rift Valley salt mix. By all means combine with Epsom salt and Baking Soda to produce a Rift Valley salt mix, but once the box is done, for gosh sakes buy some marine salt mix; only the latter has the full mix of trace elements, whereas aquarium salt has virtually nothing useful. This issue has been discussed so many times, there's really no need for you to reinvent the wheel.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
Plain aquarium salt -- what you're using -- seems to one factor leading to Malawi Bloat. Before aquarists understood the importance of water chemistry, they did what you're doing, added aquarium salt to Lake Malawi and Lake Tanganyika aquaria, and Malawi Bloat was a very common problem.
Since switching to proper Rift Valley salt mixes (which you can buy, if you don't want to make yourself) the incidence of Malawi Bloat has become a lot less common. So please, just pick up a book on African Cichlids (anything by Loiselle or Konings is good) and read the darn thing, cover to cover.
Save yourself, and your fish, a lot of grief. You're making beginner's mistakes here, and while I'm happy to help each and every time, you'll be a lot more pleased with yourself if you can pre-empt some of the possible problems.>
I have only fed them one thing, and one thing only: Omega One Super Veggie:
http://www.omegasea.net/super_veggie_flakes.html
I do not believe this food would cause any harm to either species.
<It's a good food. But do mix things up a little. Dried foods, used constantly, can cause dietary problems. Fresh green foods are the make-or-break additions to the diet with a lot of cichlids, reducing the risk of vitamin deficiency and constipation.>
I have read some of your input to other people and will try to feed smaller portions a few times a day. Maybe this will help?
<This is actually recommend practise, because at least some of these cichlids have relatively short guts, being adapted to constant grazing. So one or two big meals per day is largely a waste. So yes, a good idea.>
Should I try treating the tank with Nitrofurazone and see what that does?
<Yes, this can help treat a prolapse anus; as discussed here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/afcichdisfaq3.htm
but do think carefully about what the triggering factors might be, and act accordingly.>
Thanks,
Jimmy
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Reply to Victorian Cichlids... 9/15/09
Neale,
<Jimmy,>
General Hardness (GH) is 300 ppm.
<Is this calcium oxide or calcium carbonate? Technically it should be calcium oxide, but for historical reasons many (most?) test kits quote calcium carbonate equivalencies. That being said, 300 mg/l calcium
carbonate would be ~18 degrees dH.>
Carbonate Hardness (KH) is 160 ppm.
<This is always calcium carbonate, and in this case, ~9 degrees KH.>
I do not know what these transfer in to as far as degrees, but I believe they are pretty spot on.
<For what? Lake Malawi has hard, basic water, whereas Lake Victoria is more neutral, moderately hard. It doesn't matter hugely, but my point is that these lakes *are not the same*, and Lake Victoria is in most regards a fairly typical large lake like many others in East Africa. Lake Malawi (and Lake Tanganyika) are different in that the geology of the area means their water picks up a lot more minerals as it drains into the basin. Lake Malawi has about twice the mineral content of Lake Victoria.>
Although I did not combine those 3 products (baking soda, marine salt, and Epsom salt) I did put them in separately minus the baking soda; I've been using marine salt and Epsom salt along with api's aquarium salt. Seems as if I should just cut out the aquarium salt and add the baking soda.
<Why? Rather than reinventing the wheel, I suggest you review the Rift Valley cichlid salt recipe described on WWM, as well as on other Rift Valley cichlid orientated web sites. The proportions of the minerals isn't
absolutely critical -- for one thing, Lake Tanganyika and Lake Malawi have very different mineral contents anyway -- but I would use all three. The cost is negligible, so what's to lose? If you have hard water out of the tap, you might not need to use so much, and what is suggested for 5 gallons here at WWM might be fine for 10, even 15 gallons.>
2 different Flavus have created little round "nests" in the sand already.
<Neat!>
However, I have yet to see any aggression thus far.
<Babies.>
Im not saying that it wont happen, but for now they seem fine and are coloring up nicely.
<Good.>
I purchase the fish from Dave's Rare Aquarium Fish (in San Antonio) and I discussed the inhabitants of the tank before making my final decision. Dave was comfortable with the Flavus and the Ruti mix and noted that they should do well together.
<Fine.>
He knows his fish, so I trust his opinion.
<Cool.>
They're in the tank now, so its my problem if they start fighting...something tells me, however, that they'll leave each other alone (just as they are now).
<Let's see. The nature of my work here at WWM is to provide advice that works in as many situations as possible. I certainly do things at home I'd not recommend other aquarists do! So if I'm over-cautious, that's the reason why. But the flip side is this: I'm cautious because each day we get dozens of "problem fish" e-mails, and aggression is one of the most common problems. If I say that two fish might not get on, it's not because I'm trying to sell you another fish tank, it's because I know that there's a risk of things going awry. Please do understand this. With that said, by all means see what happens, and honestly, I do hope it works out. Both species you're keeping are colourful and interesting.>
Thanks again Neale,
Jimmy
<By the way, do stop by the new CA magazine, here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/CAHomepage.htm
There's a piece on Victorian cichlids by Daniella Rizzo in there you might enjoy.
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Reply to Victorian Cichlids... 9/15/09
Neale,
Yea, I'll hope for the best, and I'll keep you updated (hopefully with pictures soon).
<That would be nice.>
Where is the best place to get Nitrofurazone if you don't mind me asking?
<No idea; here in the UK, it's a prescription-only medication. In the US, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals market at least one version, called Furan-2 I believe. There may well be others.>
You have been most helpful. Much appreciated.
Jimmy
<Good luck! Neale.>

Persistent Ich
Cichlid Tank Going Bad 8/15/09
Please help. We have two tanks, one 30 gall tank with 8 healthy various cichlids. We have a 20 gal that we have used as a hospital tank in the past. Really, it's just a waiting room for death! No fish ever recover.
From all descriptions, it appears the fish have ich (white spots/slime all over their bodies), but none of the products we've purchased have worked.
Three days ago we purchased a pair of cichlids (sorry, my husband does not remember what kind). They were young and the female had babies in her mouth. She released the young early and she is now dead. The male is on
his way. The babies seem to be growing and we're churning out the brine shrimp, but I feel they are doomed. Before we put these new fish in, my husband put new everything in the tank after having hand cleaned it while it was dry. It's just this tank but we can't figure out why! Temp seems good, we've done multiple water changes, disc'd feeding bloodworms after reading some of your articles, feeding flakes, Cichlid Diet Pellets (small red balls that sink). We have used Ich Cure with Formalin by Aquatrol, Ampicillin (250mg), Metronidazole (250mg) and most recently ProSeries Fungus Cure by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. Aside from the money we are throwing away, and we're into the hundreds now, my kids are bereft every time one dies! Please, help before the babies go.
< The medications used in your hospital tank have probably affected the bacteria that provide the biological filtration required to convert deadly ammonia into less toxic nitrites and then finally nitrates. A true hospital tank has very little sand and no biological filtration. Once a fish is placed in the tank the water is medicated. The fish should not be fed during treatment. Water should be around 80 F.
During treatment the tank should get a 50% water change between treatments.
Siphon off any fish waste during the water change. Organics in the water can absorb some of the medication and reduce the dosage. Once the treatment is complete you can add a filter with carbon to remove the medication from
the water. Take some used filter media from the established tank and squeeze some of it into the hospital tank filter to get the biological filtration established. Continue with water changes to control the nitrogenous wastes. If the fish is healthy for a couple of weeks then it should be ok to be placed in the main tank.-Chuck>
<<And eight Mbuna or Utaka type cichlids is likely too many for this sized, shape system. RMF>>

Re: Persistent Ich
Persistent Cichlid Deaths  8/29/2009
Chuck, we continue to need help. Thank you for input on the hospital tank.
Our 30 gallon tank, which was previously healthy, experienced some sort of epidemic as well. We lost 4 fish, but not to ich. They had no outward sign of disease, at all. Four are left and they've seemed healthy for
three days now. Our favorite, a large zebra cichlid now has red marks on his side and bottom fin, as well as his tail. It looks as if he's bleeding!!! His skin looks ok, but he is lethargic and not eating. Any ideas???
< Start by checking the water quality. The ammonia and nitrites should be zero. The nitrates should be under 20 ppm. Your fish like hard alkaline water. The pH should be well above 7. If these parameters are not met then the fish get sick and die from diseases that that the poor water quality makes them vulnerable too..-Chuck>

Cyrtocara moorii; damaged lips, infections   7/30/09
Hi,
<Hello,>
I really need help. I purchased some Cichlids from a gentleman that lives close to me. I bought them because they needed a good home and this man had just lost his job and such so he obviously needed the money.
<I see.>
I am really worried however. About two days ago I noticed one of the blue dolphins had what seemed like a busted lip, but I just figured it was from a fight.
<Can well be; when fish are moved from one tank to another, there's often a struggle to reassert dominance. It also depends on the size of the tank, and a fish used to a bigger tank moved to a smaller tank may take time readjusting to new boundaries. Yet again, water chemistry and water quality can be issues; with Malawian cichlids, clean, hard, basic water is essential, and if moved into a tank with soft and acidic water, or detectable levels of ammonia and/or nitrite, opportunistic infections such as Finrot can follow.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_2/malawian_cichlids.htm
So there's a bunch of factors. That said, damage to the mouth is typically from fighting.>
Well it got worse today and now it seems like her bottom lip is rotting off and her fins are too. They look inflamed and dark red. It looks like a horrible infection, I hadn't noticed it, and maybe because it just happened, but another cichlid, that the gentleman called a Big Spot, has ruined fins also.
<Well, without some details on the tank it's difficult to say what's going on. At minimum, we need the pH and the nitrite levels so we can factor out environmental issues. You're aiming for 0 nitrite (as well as 0 ammonia, and nitrate levels no higher than 20 mg/l if possible). Water chemistry should be hard (10+ degrees dH) and basic (pH 7.5-8). Since Blue Dolphin cichlids (Cyrtocara moorii) are pretty big, your tank will need to be a generous size, and even a 55 gallon tank is at the low end of what these fish require. They're also fairly peaceful fish, and more aggressive species, particularly Mbuna, can cause them serious harm.>
One of my other dolphins has what looks like a "busted lip" now too!!! I don't know what is going on, but I need to fix it. I tried researching it on the internet and couldn't find anything that looked like it. Please help, what do I do? Or are my fish doomed?
<Doubt they're doomed, but do treat for Finrot (e.g., with Maracyn, eSHa 2000, etc.) and test, at minimum, the pH and nitrite. Review tankmates, aquarium space.>
--Thanks
---Anna
<Cheers, Neale.>

Cichlid problem  7/27/09
Hi Crew,
<Hello,>
One of my Mbuna stopped eating about two weeks ago, started "gasping" a bit, and began to lose his color only near the dorsal fin. None of the other fish showed any symptoms at all. I tested the water as soon as we noticed he was having a problem (ammonia: 0, nitrite: 0, nitrate: 30).
Since the nitrate levels were a bit high, I did 30% water changes every other day and then continued doing frequent small changes after the levels got down to about 10.
<Very good. Do also check water chemistry. As you doubtless know, Mbuna need hard, alkaline water to do well. Aim for pH 7.5-8, hardness 15+ degrees dH, and a carbonate hardness upwards of 5 degrees KH. Slight variation from week to week shouldn't cause problems, but they are sensitive to acidification, and if the pH drops below about 7.2, they tend to get ill very quickly.>
Since doing so the nitrate levels have consistently been between 10 and 25, everything else at 0. I also tried feeding him peas in case there was a blockage. Still, his health continued to decline and he still refused to eat. He at times would sway from side to side while swimming (kind of like a waddle) and stayed in one of the rock caves at all times.
<May simply be genetic or old age; these symptoms are pretty nondescript, and if the other fish are fine, would tend to adopt a "review the basics" approach. Check things like water chemistry, diet, social behaviour and so on are all within the ranges required by the species you are keeping. A typical Pseudotropheus cichlid should live at least 5 years, though 7-8 years is typical for healthy specimens maintained under good conditions.
But inbreeding can mean that some simply aren't as robust as they should be, while hybridisation throws up all sorts of variables that are difficult to predict.>
Finally, today I found him hanging at the top of the tank and some of his scales appeared to be peeling off on their own. His body had a wrinkled appearance, and since he looked like he was suffering I decided to euthanize him. I inspected him closely after and there was no bloating, no red patches, no visible external parasites, etc. Any idea what this might have been?
<Not really, no.>
Laura
<Sorry couldn't offer more help. Cheers, Neale.>

Novice Makes a Ton of Mistakes That May Kill Fish. Is the problem fungus? FW  7/21/2009
Hi. Great site!
<Hello and thanks.>
I really hope you can help me with some of my many problems, though you already have with a few! I’m sorry this is still so long… I've done my best to edit it, but I'm really trying to be as thorough as physically possible. It seems like I've so far done a very, very BAD job with my aquarium, mostly because I rushed into it before thinking anything through. I’m going to see the lady who runs the local pet store soon, and she has always been helpful, but I’m hoping to receive either new ideas or consolation that whatever she tells me is true. Sorry to say I’m feeling a little cynical, and overwhelmed.
<Oh.>
I’m super new to aquariums, and have a lot of questions about a “problem tank” I seem to have brought upon myself, so prepare to roll your eyes, but keep in mind that I’ve only had a beta (lived three years!) who came in his vase/glass jar, and didn’t know any of the rules except that I needed to feed them… (I know I should have researched it now, but it was a split second decision, which landed me with a 55g tank, light and filter system for $20, for my “lake fish” (his name was Herman, caught him a net myself, he was less than an inch long…) who died before I got the tank home.)
<I see.>
First of all, you should know that my tank is roughly 55g, freshwater, 20 with aquarium salt,
<Don't know what this means. "20" what? The thing with salt is you either have a brackish water aquarium, or you don't. Unless you're using salt for treating Ick, there's no need to add salt otherwise, and any amount of salt adequate for brackish water fish will eventually kill freshwater fish. There's no "middle ground". It's a binary thing, like being pregnant. You either are pregnant or you're not, there's nothing in between. Likewise you either have a brackish water aquarium with sufficient salt for those brackish water species, or you don't.>
and currently a dosage of methyl blue, pH stabilizer, and the anti-ammonia crud; all of which I am adding in accordance with the directions, and slowly, because I really don’t need any more problems with the tank.
<Why are you adding any of these? Let's review. Ammonia-remover removes ammonia from tap water; it will not, repeat, will not, remove ammonia produced by fish. So if you have some amount of ammonia in an aquarium because there are too many fish or an immature filter, adding ammonia-remove will have no useful impact. Secondly, pH stabiliser is almost always a bad idea unless you are an expert fishkeeper. A brackish water aquarium will have a stable pH because you add marine salt mix. A hard water aquarium for Malawi cichlids or livebearers will have a stable pH because you add Rift Valley salt mix (which you can make for pennies at home). The only situation where most aquarists need pH stabiliser is where soft water fish are being kept in a (typically small) soft water aquarium. Once the pH goes below 7, the chances are carbonate hardness is very low, so pH tends to drop between water changes. Unless you're doing that, using pH stabiliser is not really going to help, because you're not tackling the water chemistry problem head-on.>
I have 1 single waterfall, 1 double waterfall, a bubbler that is currently going through a curtain, and a heater, which I’m not sure I should run (the temperature is about 80F, which is ok, (I think) for cichlids, and I’m afraid of the heat fueling the fungus, if it’s cotton mouth?).
<Fish need a certain temperature to be healthy; above or below it their immune system weakens, and Fungus and Finrot become probably. For things like Malawi Cichlids, that temperature is 25 C/77 F, and anything above or below that value becomes increasingly stressful. Summertime highs a few degrees above shouldn't do any harm because the tank will cool a bit at night, but do try and avoid temperatures above 28-30 C/82-86 F for any length of time.>
I’m planning on taking out all of the gravel so I can sit it out, let it dry, bake in the sun to hopefully kill the fungus, (will that work?)
<Not really, no.>
and rewash it, and replace it when (fingers crossed!) my fish are finally healthy. I’m also going to take out the live plants and various ornaments.
<Why?>
So here is the list of fish and their ailments. I have in total seven fish and two fiddler crabs, that I have moved to another tank because they need land, and do not tolerate most fish meds as well as others. (I have 1 Green Spotted puffer, one orange African cichlid, one grey convict (who my friend is sure is some other type of cichlid, he’s grey with vertical black stripes, and shiny blue-ish green lines and dots), one I believe is a green terror, a long dark blue one with horizontal light blue stripes, and a mystery cichlid that is purple wi th darker purple vertical lines and orange fins.
<These fish are largely incompatible. The Green Spotted Puffer absolutely must be kept in brackish water; 1.005 at 25 C, around 9 grammes marine salt mix/litre is the absolute minimum for long-term care. Extended exposure to such conditions will kill the cichlids.>
All but the puffer were sold under the name cichlid with some list after them, but I can’t remember them all. All of the fish I have bought from the local PetSupermarket have passed on (and I think it was those feeder fish who brought the diseases too, they have warts, but the lady at the store assured me they were eggs… later to find the guppies are live birth! Not that it’s not my fault… but I’m going to be stubborn about it and boycott… at least until I get a quarantine tank… which, only having one fish, I didn’t know about.) I’m going to make up genders for them, because though I think I know some, I’m pretty sure most of them are wrong.
<Indeed.>
Green Spotted Puffer: Her name is Afragorica (ugly… I know, but I was trying to say something else and it stuck.) I got her from Wal-Mart (didn’t know it would be a problem… and I don’t believe it was this time. Got lucky, I guess) and haven’t had a problem until yesterday, wayyy after some of the others went downhill, even though she was among the first added to the tank. Unfortunately she now has a slimy white fungus? (like the stuff on Oink (the mystery fish’s) eye) on parts of her body and mouth. She may have a dark spot on her belly, too, but it comes and goes with the lighting, and I can’t tell if it’s there or not (if it is, it’s minor, hardly noticeable, and possibly a color marking, because it is only seen near the borders on her white belly, and does not grow.) There does not appear to be any kind of rot yet, and it’s not grainy enough to be ick. What is it?
<Fundamentally, the standard reaction of GSPs to being kept in freshwater tanks. Putting her in brackish water as outlined above should prevent the problem happening again, and treatment with an anti-Fungal should fix what she has now.>
Should methyl blue fix it?
<Methylene blue should work, yes, but in conjunction with improved environmental conditions.>
I gave her a 30 minute bath in the 10g “hospital tank” with twice the dosage (as directed… good or bad? Is methyl blue ok for scale-less fish?) and she seemed happy enough, but there seems to be little improvement, though I’ve done it twice over the course of the day. She’s eating well… though she’s disappointed because I haven’t put in much live food over the course of the last week due to the ailments, and bad water. There’s one (wart free!) feeder guppy left, and she chases it, but it’s about her size so she hasn’t managed to catch it yet.
<Do not use feeder fish.>
I’m guessing the fact that she’s still making the attempt is good. She’s been eating the flakes, and some cichlid crumbles. Where she is not infected she seems very shiny. What can I do?
<GSPs should eat a mix of seafood plus some greens. I'd recommend a bag of frozen seafood from the grocery store (cockles, mussels, squid and prawns here in England). You can also use wet frozen fish foods including lancefish, bloodworms, krill, etc. Offer cooked or tinned peas occasionally. Make the diet as varied as possible to avoid problems with thiaminase (mussels and prawns have high levels of thiaminase, and over time, this causes severe health problems.>
Orange African Cichlid: Her name is Starshine. She seems healthy, eating, and swimming normally, BUT she has developed green “eyebrows” and “half a mustache.” It’s not fuzzy, and doesn’t seem to be growing (I noticed it a week ago, but it’s too small, and I don’t ha ve a clue what it is…) Is it possibly new coloring, or is she sick? Would you like a picture? I’m pretty attached to her, and would hate to see her go, especially because it seems like it’s just starting, if it’s anything at all.
<Again, likely an environmental issue. Malawian and Central American cichlids need hard, basic water.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_2/malawian_cichlids.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_1/central.htm
Aim for pH 8, general hardness 15+ degrees dH, carbonate hardness 5+ degrees KH. See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
There's a Rift Valley salt mix; use it! Also treat for fungus.>
Convict: His name is Moonus… No problems for now, though he did have some tail-rot just after I got him. Should I take him out and treat him separately? Can I leave him be if I take him out? He doesn’t seem to be sick at all.
<As for the Orange cichlid.>
Green Terra: I named him Oliver, because he’s an orphan fish, I adopted him from another tank because, though he’s bigger than my fish (probably two inches long), he’s very timid and was getting his behind kicked by another fish. No problems still, but I still gave him a bath. Can I take him out too?
<Aequidens rivulatus and Aequidens pulcher are widely confused, so check which you have. Adult Aequidens rivulatus can get along with Convicts rather well, given space, but Aequidens pulcher is a big, fairly peaceful community fish. Aequidens pulcher is a soft water fish by the way. Aequidens rivulatus is as well, given the choice, but does just fine in moderately hard water.>
The “big blue one:” He’s not so big as he is long, but hasn’t got a name yet. He’s very aggressive, and still likes to chase the other fish, but seems like he may have the fungus on the edges of his fins, though it’s not fuzzy or filmy like the others, and seems opaque… This has not grown or receded, though he is too fast for me to catch to put in the bath, and the “fungus” may even be faded coloring… because I’m sure if the illnesses don’t get these guys the stress I’m putting them under might. Is this possible? Or is it the fungus? Do you want a picture?
<It's all pretty generic really. Fungus and Finrot (and indeed Columnaris, called Mouth Fungus) often occur together and are caused by the same things: poor water quality and the wrong water chemistry.>
The mystery-PetSupermarket-Cichlid- Oink: Firstly, I realize that Oink is probably going to be lost, but I’d really like it if he didn’t die, because he’s quite nice when he isn’t busy being sickly. The first indicator of illness (in all of my fish), Oink began his plight two days ago, when I noticed he had an extremely cloudy eye, but it seemed to be a fuzzy film, identical to many fungus pictures, but on his eye. I am guessing it came in the night, because I didn’t see it beforehand except as “eyebrows”, (which I suspected were ich, due to the amount of itching all of my fish had been doing before I added meds… and put in an anti ich called “QuIch”) and found it early this morning covering his eye so thickly that I couldn’t see the eye through the film. Can a fish get fungus on its eye? I did a water change and added methyl blue to the tank (too much?).
<You are likely medicating without logic, and used carelessly, medications will interact with each other, or else poison the fish. Do identify the problem first, the attempt to remedy the causative factors, and finally treat -- sparingly -- using the correct, not random, medication.>
Everyone still seems fine, but the eye was still terrible, so I did some research and gave him a bath, which cleared it up so much that I thought he would be clean the next time I did (decided to give him some time between the baths though he seems to enjoy them more than he does the tank, because he does more swimming and less floating.) I gave him another bath a few hours later. Unfortunately, whatever it was grew back within five hour s, so I gave him another bath (though the recommended dose is two a day… he was looking so bad I thought he may die if I did, or if I didn’t.) I’m afraid he may lose his eye, in which case I’m lost as to what to do… Do I need to catch it, to keep the others from eating it?
<Ideally.>
Can I somehow make it easier for him to deal with his loss? (Seriously, I have been warned, but I think it may devastate me. I can’t stand thinking it’s going to happen and I can’t do anything for him.) It’s apparently a little bulgy, but, in all honesty it looks the same to me as the other, and no different than hours before. I mentioned he likes to float which brings me to the fish that Oink was meant to replace.
<Fish live just fine with one eye. I'm sure they'd like both, but they manage fine. Their lateral line system is a sort of "radar" that helps them to a degree we really can't imagine. That's why fish are perfectly happy in water so dark or murky they can't see anyway.>
I had a cichlid, who seemed fine in his PetSupermarket tank but very very ill in my own. As soon as I brought him home he began gasping (like possible gill flukes?) and spent much of his time on top of the water. He died within 24 hours, and I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with him (aside from the gasping) until another one of my fish died from the same thing, eventually laying on the bottom of the tank and letting the others eat him until I pulled him out of there and put him in an empty 10 gallon my boyfriend’s brother had gotten the day of, and graciously lent me in hopes of saving his favorite fish, and is now serving as a hospital tank. He died wi thin hours, but I’m wondering if the flukes were caused by a parasite or something equally as contagious, because the other fish was extremely healthy before the new one was put in. What’s going on? How can I fix it? Is it over, or is it hiding somewhere in my tank?
<I honestly doubt a "mystery disease" is the thing here. It's all so generic that it simply screams "water quality/chemistry issues".>
Currently I am doing LOTS of water treatment, with the antifungal, the aquarium salt, and 50% water changes. Can I do anything else for them? There are (what I believe to be) actual fungus spores floating in there and I scoop those out too… I think they come off Oink’s eye… but Oliver likes to eat them, which scares the daylights outta me. Speaking of lights… on or off for fungus? I realize I messed up, and really, really, need help, and have, in fact been researching fish ailments until two in the morning three nights in a row, (once again, great site!), in addition to spending most of the day on water and fish treatments. HELP ME!
<Do really need [a] water chemistry, at minimum pH, and ideally carbonate and general hardness too; and [b] water quality, at minimum nitrite, but ammonia and nitrate useful too.>
Hoping for anything…
Kim
<Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>
On an unrelated side note, I'm watching my friend's fish, which include a black molly, and a sunset molly. A different molly died before everyone left, and I believe it's because her bubbler is not only out of the tank, but unplugged (?) I wanted to know how long the two could stay that way...? Her tank is really small, I think probably a travel tank of about a gallon (give or take half). Should I put the bubble r in the water for a little while everyday, or leave it in?
<Mollies will die in tanks one gallon in size; really need 20+ gallons to have any chance of survival, and the water needs to be warm (around 28 C) and slightly brackish (5 grammes/litre upwards). Frankly, would put this poor fish out if its misery... it has no hope.>
She said not to worry... but they're pretty new and one already died, and the oxygen situation is looking bad. The fish are pretty sluggish, they hide and ignore food... I've put the bubbler in once, should I do it again?
<Read, have your friend read.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/mollies.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Novice Makes a Ton of Mistakes That May Kill Fish. Is the problem fungus? 7/21/09
Thank you very much for your help. They all seem to be much better this morning, the puffer is completely clear, and only the mystery fish seems to be having any trouble at all, but also seems to be much better. Currently the only thing in the water is methyl blue, and the chemistry seems better.
<Good news.>
I was under the impression that cichlids like aquarium salt because the lady at Petco told me they could be kept together, and the cichlids in the store also used the salt. Do I need to get it out, or let it run its course?
<Just do regular water changes, and over the weeks, the salt will be flushed out safely. Over the long term, salt seems to be a triggering factor for Malawi Bloat in African cichlids. Salt doesn't harden the water
or raise the pH, which is why it's of no use when keeping cichlids from Malawi, Tanganyika, or Central America. (Though that said, some Central American cichlids tolerate brackish and even saltwater conditions very well, but none actually need brackish water, and adding a teaspoon of "tonic salt" per gallon doesn't make brackish water anyway; you need marine salt mix for that.)>
I think I've learned a lot, and I won't make the same mistakes again.
<Cool.>
Thank you again!
Kim
<Happy to help.>
As for my friend's fish, I've tried to explain it to her, but she's not hearing it... I don't know what to do, but feed them, and maybe fix up the tank, but I'm sure they'll die because I'm only watching them this week,
and will not listen about the tank size. :[
<Ah, the same frustration as I often feel here, when I tell someone their Goldfish needs a 30 gallon tank, or their Betta needs to be kept warm, or their turtle needs dry land and a basking lamp. You do what you can do; the rest is up to them; call it Karma, if you will. Cheers, Neale.>

Lake Malawi Tank Problems   7/11/09
Hi, my name is Chris and I've been keeping African cichlids for about 2 years. I have a 135 gallon tank witch is a little over stocked about 300 inches of fish. It has a Fluval FX5 and a Rena Filstar XP3 as well as 2 hydro sponge filter 5s for filtration. I do a weakly/every other week 40% water change. I feed mostly Kens fish cichlid pellets and occasionally soak them in a vitamin complex. Well last week after doing a 30 percent water change and complete gravel vacuum I started to lose about 3 fish a day. When I find them, they have their mouths wide open and extended and look a little bloated but not much and all there fins have red streaks in them(normally clear fins) even the pectoral fins. I tested the water and it read: ammonia .12, nitrite .3, nitrate 5 and pH is 7.6. I added a uv sterilizer and some aquarium and Epsom salt. but I'm still losing fish. also right before they die they swim upside down and listlessly for at least an hour. also only the fish 3" or bigger have died. the smaller fish 2-3" have bean ok.
any help would be appreciated..Thanks, Chris
<You may have wiped out our biological filtration when you cleaned the tank. The ammonia and nitrites should be zero. The high readings are weakening the fish and may be causing secondary bacterial infections. Try smaller water changes (20%) but do them twice a week. Don't feed for a few days until the readings start to level out.-Chuck>

Cichlid Injury or Disease? Former    6/23/09
Hello.
<Hi there>
I've recently started up a new Lake Malawi Mbuna Cichlid tank. I've been a hobby aquarist for a few years now and this is my first stab at a cichlid tank.
<Some fun!>
Here is my setup:
4 Electric Yellow Labs
4 Red Zebras
36 gallon,
<Mmm, going to be some tussling>
with crushed coral substrate, plenty of river bed rocks and slate arranged for plenty of hiding spaces and territory markers. The tank has been fully up and running for about 2 months. The 4 labs were added first, then the zebras a couple weeks later.
Water parameters:
Temp: 80F
pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: < 10 ppm
KH: 11
GH: 6
Here's my concern. A few days ago I noticed one of the red zebras has a milky white patch
<Told you so>
on the bottom-left side of its body just above it's pelvic fin, very easy to see given its deep orange coloring. The fish currently measures about 3 inches long, with the patch being about half the size of a dime. Nearby the patch are a few "frayed" scales that are also white, looking similar to someone who starts to peel after a bad sunburn. Now, the patch appears to be spreading along its underbelly.
There are also a few more of the frayed scales.
Most of the time the fish in question will hide, except during feeding.
Its behavior is otherwise normal.
Originally, this fish did not hide. However, b/c of the excessive hiding I can't help but think it's gotten in a few fights, lost, and is now just scared.
<An accurate assessment>
Its fins do not appear to be nipped, nor any eye damage or growths around its mouth. I've tried to find pictures of common fish diseases, but haven't been able to find anything to make a definitive diagnosis. The closest possibilities I have found are Velvet or Costia.
<Nah>
Unfortunately I cannot supply a pic as I stated that the fish is usually hiding making it very difficult to photograph.
Thanks.
- Aaron
<Much more likely just secondary infection from physical injuries... You may want, need to isolate the one fish... ultimately a few others... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/afcichdisfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Cichlid Injury or Disease? 6/24/09
Bob,
<Aaron>
Thanks for the response.
<Welcome>
You stated that it's most likely a secondary infection. Is there anything I need to do when I isolate the fish (medicate, etc)?
<Nothing I would do, no... other than move the damaged fish where it can heal of its own accord, and feed in peace>
Also, I was planning on getting 4 more fish (most likely electric blue johanni's) to complete the stocking scheme.
<No my friend... this system is already over/mis-stocked>
I figure with 12 fish in a 36 gal aquarium, there will be a large enough population to spread out any aggression so that individual fish are not bullied.
<Mmm, can work... with very careful feeding... attention to the arising of an "alpha" bully>
I'm using a 60 gal canister filter which (hopefully) should be enough to handle the larger bio load.
<Am not such a fan of canisters for African Cichlid systems... or I'd at least add some more/redundant filtration. Perhaps a hang-on power filter of size>
Thanks again.
Aaron
<Welcome again my friend. BobF>

Re: Cichlid Injury or Disease? (Update) 6/27/09 Bob, Thanks again for you input. It's been quite helpful. The fish in question is no longer hiding. It's now swimming around normally with the other fish. I did manage to get a few pictures (albeit a *little* fuzzy for some) to help give you a better idea of what I've been describing. <Looks like a true fungus... Yikes!> Needless to say the area in question has spread since I first e-mailed you. I still agree with your diagnosis of fighting wounds. <I too> There's nothing around the fish's eyes or mouth, and nothing on its fins. I just want to be as certain as possible. Thanks. -Aaron <This fish may heal of its own accord... but I'd at least be reading: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwinfectdisef5.htm and the linked files above... BobF>

Re: Cichlid Injury or Disease? (Update) 6/27/09 Bob, Thanks again for replying. It's been quite helpful. I've moved the fish to a hospital tank and am treating it with Pimafix to help treat the fungus. I'll be sure to read the link you passed along. - Aaron <... Aaron, please read where you were referred to... I would not use this API product, nor any of their other "fixes" period. B> Re: Cichlid Injury or Disease? (The Final Update) 6/27/2009 Bob, Bad news. No sooner did I receive your last response that I found the fish belly up. I appreciate all the help you gave me. I always try to research what the best course of action is whenever a problem arises. Unfortunately, a lot of time you get conflicting advice (to medicate or not to medicate, etc). <Yes... and what is/are the choices one has, must make here? To discern fact from non-... set upon a path of your choice> I guess you just have to base your actions on previous experience, of which I only have a few years worth. <Mmm, not so... our civilization is built upon the vast experiences, efforts, trials of our forbearers... Mostly recorded as writing... some of it extant in the working memories of others (e.g. the WWM Crew)> Every incident is a learning experience. I only wish this one would have worked out for the best. Thanks again. Aaron <Well... thank you for your (conciliatory) follow-up... I do wish you well. BobF>

African Cichlid problem
Malawi Cichlid With Hole In The Head 6/19/09
You have a great site, I have learned a lot browsing through it.
<Thank yo for your kind words>
Please help me asap!
Background:
55 gallon tank
Inhabitants: One 6-7" female Fossorochromis Rostratus (6.5 years old),
Three
1-inch female Aulonocaras
Filtration: Eheim 2213 canister filter
Nitrates: 5 ppm right before water change
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia 0
pH: 7.5
Water Change Frequency: 40-50% twice a week Food: homemade from internet recipe and Hikari Marine A Temperature: 76 F Symptoms: All inhabitants healthy with absolutely no prior medical problems.
The Fossorochromis recently began showing minor symptoms of hole in the head disease, much to my dismay. I went through a round of Metro+ and added liquid vitamins to her food with no discernible improvement, but no worsening either. Yesterday noticed a reddened area and "pimple" near her mouth and her fins were down. Suspected bacterial infection of some kind.
As I hadn't had time to research the situation fully (gram positive or negative or something else entirely) and haven't had to use antibiotics of any kind in the last 6 years of this hobby, I added the only thing I had on hand, Pimafix. Yes, I am aware that is like giving herbal remedies to an MSRA patient, but I had nothing else and live an hour from the nearest pet store. This morning her fins are back to normal intermittently but she is breathing very hard. I added an air stone and am in the process of changing the water yet again to increase oxygen content. She appears to be breathing easier now, but not back to normal. I own nine freshwater aquariums and fortunately have never seen this before so I don't know what is going on.
All the rest of the inhabitants in her tank are just fine. Any ideas are welcome! Thank you for your time and suggestions. Rebecca
< There are ideas about the causes of hole in the head disease without any scientific evidence to back them up to my satisfaction, but you have eliminated some of the theoretical causes. Some people think it is bad water. This is not the case because you water conditions are fine and you are up on your water changes so it is not nitrogenous waste either. This comes down to diet. Usually food with fish meal contains enough calcium for fish to build their bones as they grow. Since you make your own fish food it is hard to tell if your food has enough calcium in it. Larger fish need more calcium to replenish the calcium needed to build their bones. Try Spectrum New Life pellet food for awhile and see if this makes any difference. I have never had a problem with HITH while using this food. If this works then in your situation we may have found a possible cause and cure.-Chuck>

Update on African Cichlid situation... hlth.
Malawi Cichlid With Hole In The Head 6/19/09
Thought I would add an update. After the massive water change, which rid the tank of Pimafix, the Fossorochromis in question returned to breathing and acting normally, so maybe her problem was due to that.
<Possibly>
I don't plan to use that product again.
<I would not>
However she still has the small raised red bump by her mouth and the beginning HITH situation.
<Likely best cured by providing ongoing optimized water quality and nutrition>
I will refrain from adding any more medication, herbal or otherwise, without strong recommendation.
Thanks
for your time.
Rebecca
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Re: African Cichlid problem
Cichlid With HITH 6/21/09
Thank you for your advice. The reddish sore resolved into another small HITH-like hole, but at least no infection. She is acting normally. I am purchasing Spectrum New Life pellet food online as I write this and implementing daily 25% water changes just in case. I will update you on the
results as soon as something changes. Thanks again. Rebecca
< Try to increase the calcium content of the water by adding some crushed coral to the filter. As it dissolves into the water it may be ingested by the fish.-Chuck>

Re: African Cichlid problem
Hole-In-The-Head Treatment 7/1/09
I purchased the recommended New Life Spectrum food. Until the food arrived, I added powdered calcium to the water and a little to her food as well as a big mesh bag of crushed coral. Since following your advice, one hole has gotten so small I have a hard time finding it, the other two don't seem to have changed too much yet (although all redness is gone), and no new holes are forming. She looks and acts normal and I have high hopes that she is recovering. Thank you for sharing your theory and giving a friend back to me! I will update again when something major occurs, such as (hopefully) her complete recovery. Rebecca
< Thank you so much for writing back. It is times like this that makes me glad that your question was asked and that all fellow aquarists and their pet cichlids might benefit from our WWM forum. Hopefully the recovery will continue and this disease will no longer become an issue.-Chuck>

Hoping you can ID this disease for me... reading   6/16/09 I have done a lot of research and I'm having a difficult time figuring out what this is, I think its fin rot but not sure. My Cobalt Blue Zebra has had this for about a month now. I tried treating it with Melafix but this did not seem to do anything. <See WWM re this "fix"... worthless> Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks <Does appear to be a secondary infection... very close to the "egg dummies" of this male... could be due to "biting" near... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwinfectdisef5.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Hoping you can ID this disease for me, Mbuna... 6/17/09 Thanks Bob my plan was to stop feeding for a week, do a large water change this weekend and purchase the Seachem KanaPlex. Thanks for your help these Fish infections are hard to figure out sometimes. <Does read/sound like a good plan John... These fishes are really very tough... with good care (water quality, nutrition) they almost always "bounce back' w/o much in the way of medicating. BobF>

Cichlid Wound and salt use/cichlids   6/9/09
Good afternoon!
<And morrow to you>
I have a 130 gallon cichlid tank set up about 9 months ago, the tank itself has been running for around 5 years. One of the cichlids is a hybrid of Pseudotropheus Elongatus (as far as I can tell) and I originally saved him from somebody's dirty cichlid tank. They had over a dozen fish at one time but eventually only had two left due to neglecting their water changes, so I quickly put them into my tank.
<Too often a circumstance>
I believe in overkill when it comes to filters, so I have an old Eheim canister filter, Rena XP3, Fluval 404, and two Marineland Emperor 400's.
Ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate<10, 250 GH, 100 KH, 7.4 pH (I'm also curious if that's alright or if I should really try to get the water to be more acidic), and water temperature at 78 F.
Ever since I first got him, the Pseudotropheus Elongatus has had a bubble-like "blister" on his face. It would slowly grow until it suddenly burst and opened up, revealing fleshy pink beneath. Within a few days it would heal over and became nearly unnoticeable, but a few weeks would go by and the routine would repeat itself. Keeping the water ultra-clean with 30% weekly water changes seemed to keep it at bay for awhile, but recently it is getting very bad. For the past two or three weeks, it has slowly grown into a large, fleshly, pink crater, about 1 cm in diameter. It doesn't resemble any hole-in-the-head that I've Googled for pictures of, and it doesn't seem to be red with any blood, and there's no white worms or anything on it, it's just lumpy and pink. It looks as if it's starting to spread to just above his mouth as well. It looks almost as if his flesh is slowly getting eaten away.
<Mmm, might well be an entrenched bacterial or protozoan issue... inherited from previous poor care>
I really don't want to lose this fish. Since I don't know exactly what it is, I'm thinking about trying Clout to see if it would help, but I wanted to contact you first. I also have two large crayfish in the tank and I'm worried the Clout will kill them.
<It might do so indirectly. I would instead look into the antimicrobial Nitrofuranace and antiprotozoal Metronidazole>
I can attempt to get a picture of the wound if you think it will help.
<Not really, no>
I also have a separate question: what is your take on using aquarium salt for cichlids?
<Salts, combinations of metals/non-metals are present in all freshwaters to extents, mixes... However, adding more is often of no use to counter-productive. One should know what the present/source water salt content is and the needs, ranges of tolerance/liking for salts for the species in question. Of a carte blanche answer, the Cichlid fishes et al. of Malawi and Tanganyika do better with a mix of some salts added in many situations... Those of the New World and Asia... as well as most all other bodies of water in Africa, not much at all>
I've read different thing. Some say don't use any salt. Some say use salt, but not normal aquarium salt as it won't help a thing. They then say to use salt used in salt water tanks or Epsom salt. What do you think I should use and how much?
<Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/saltusefaqs.htm
and elsewhere on WWM re Cichlid Systems...>
Thanks for your time!
Dayton
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Old Frontosa With Hole In The Head  06/03/09 Hi guys, I have a frontosa. He is about twelve years old. I have medicated him with every thing I can think of, Nitrofuranace and Metronidazole. If I am not mistaken it is hole in the head?, You cannot see it very well in the picture but that is a deep hole on the side of his face not just surface. and he also has transparent grape like clusters by his eye and his face is pitted pretty bad, am I right about the hole in the head? < That is definitely Hole-In-The Head.> He has had this for a about two years, I have been thinking about putting him down with Finquel. I am sending you some pics. If the pics are to big, please let me know and I will try to make them smaller. Thank you Michelle W. < Thanks for the pictures. Your frontosa is very old and may not respond to the medication. First lets start with the water quality. The ammonia and nitrites should be zero. The nitrates should be under 20 ppm. The pH should be as close to 8.0 as possible. The water temp should be around 82 F. The diet should include a high quality pellet with fish meal as a major ingredient. Now that he is sick you should try and feed him some medicated food with Metronidazole in it. Your fish has been sick for a very long time and his age makes recovery a very slow process. You used the right medications, it is just that in hard alkaline water these medications are not as effective.-Chuck>

cobalt blue cichlid emergency
Malawi Cichlid With Damage 6/1/2009
Hello, I've been searching around your site to find a similar problem, but have been unable to find anyone with what appears to be the same problem our fish is having. We have a 75 gallon tank, had two yellow labs and a cobalt blue. One lab was picking at the other, so we took out the one that was being picked at. He's doing fine now in our other 75 gallon, his fins and tail have all grown back nicely with color. He's happy there. The blue was always one to hold his own, so we weren't concerned that they would not get along. He was as clear as a bell, eyes, fins, scales...perfect health. Two days later, we found the lab picked at him so severely that his pectoral fins and tail were half gone, and a couple spots on his side; not sure if these were from the lab or damaged when he tried to get away, on some tank decorations maybe. And he has been unable to stay upright, and swim with much control; he's even rolling a bit, like a kayak. We immediately surrendered the bad lab to the LFS, that was yesterday. Put in some Metronidazole we had, but it wasn't quite enough.
Today, can't find any LFS with any meds at all. We may have to travel an hour to get some, but wanted to know if you had any thoughts on what the problem might be. This buoyancy issue began with the damage from the lab, so we don't think it's bladder disease, though I'm not completely sure.
Talked to my fisheries biologist brother, and he didn't think bladder could have been damaged by lab, and suggested checking the eye swim reflex, which looks good when he spins (referring to the fish looking toward his belly when he spins), so we don't think it's neurological. We changed out 50% of water, and figure we need to treat again...I tried attaching a video, but it's quite large (12.4 megs), so email probably wouldn't allow, or it would take days to download; I don't have anywhere to post to (maybe you have an
idea?). Hopefully you will have some ideas on how to treat based upon my description here...we are surprisingly attached to these guys...hope we don't have to euthanize. Thank you for any help you may be able to provide.
(Checked water yesterday: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 20, pH 6, have maintained these levels for 5+ years now).Kim
< The internal damage could be from the physical trauma caused by direct hits on the flanks or by stress to the internal organs from the attacks. The loss of the fins could effect the fish's ability to control it's movements. Keep the water clean and watch for bacterial or fungal infections. As the fins grow back the swimming should improve. If the fish is not eating then medications like Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace should be tried.-Chuck>

Redness near pectoral fins...
Electric Yellow Cichlid With Reddish Sides 6/1/2009
Good Day WWM Crew, I'm a newbie & just started my first 195 litre freshwater aquarium. The aquarium has been operational for the last 1 month. It holds 5 yellow electric cichlids and 2 powder blue cichlids. It's
got lots of rocks & caves with white sand & crushed corals as the aquarium's base. Water pH level range is about 8.0 to 8.3, tested ammonia level is at 0. I feed the fishes twice a day. Chemicals added to the water
consist of standard anti-chlorine, standard aquarium salt, Ocean Free's Vitamin Complex, Ocean Free's Super Battle Bacteria. I feed my fishes Sera's Vipan flakes. Recently noticed that 1 yellow cichlid has an enlarged left eye & redness on both sides of the body that is connected to the pectoral fin. This fish looks slightly tired, still swims around, is still alert but eats less. I noticed the redness about 5 days ago. I have not
done any medical treatment as of yet. So far, I have changed about 15% of the aquarium water once every 2 days. Washed my 2 filters once a week. Been adding the Vitamin complex each time I change water. I noticed that the redness has changed to red-pink this morning on one side of it's body. The other 6 fishes still look ok, no signs of redness yet. Hope the 6 don't catch whatever this fish has. Appreciate if you can share your experience on how to solve this. I do not have a spare tank to be used as a treatment tank. And I'm worried that some meds might destroy the good bacteria that is part of the bio-filter.
Thank you in advance. Regards, Roger (Singapore)
< The reddish coloration is a sign of irritation. This could be a chemical imbalance or a bacterial attack. The pH is fine. I would check the nitrites and nitrates. The nitrites should be zero and the nitrates should be under 20 ppm. The enlarged eye could be the start of pop eye. This is an infection behind the eye socket. I would recommend cleaning the filters on alternative weeks. Clean filter one on the first week then clean filter two one the second week. This will make sure that you don't wash away the biological filtration. Back off on the salt, it is not needed.-Chuck>

Re: Redness near pectoral fins... 6/1/2009
Lake Malawi Cichlid With Redness Around Fins
Hi Chuck, I checked the particular fish and noticed that there is some fine redness lines on the part above its mouth. I don't have nitrites and nitrates test kits at the moment, but I did manage to clean 1 filter. I have been doing daily 10% water changes since sending my first email to you on the 29th May. I visited my local pet shop and the owner sold me some yellow powder, which he said would cure the redness. I have no idea what the contents are, since the wordings on the pack are all in Japanese. But after doing some research on the Internet, I suspect he sold me some Acriflavine. I haven't used it yet though. As a precaution, I did purchase a bottle of Interpet's Anti-Internal Bacteria. Please advice if I should keep to the water changes, or if I should start to use the meds I bought.
Which one should I start with? Yellow powder or Interpet? Thanks in advance. Regards, Roger
<The yellow powder may be an antibiotic called Nitrofurazone. Check with the pet store to find out exactly what you bought. Acriflavine won't help.
The Nitro will work but may harm your biological filtration.-Chuck>

Re: Redness near pectoral fins...
Redness On Lake Malawi Cichlid II 06/02/09
Found out that the yellow powder is called m-nitrostyrene sodium salt, which is a fungicide. My fishes have been swimming in it for a few days now. I don't think it's doing the trick cos my sick cichlid is starting to change from yellow to black. I'm going to do a 10% water change again tonight and start with Interpet's Anti Bacteria. Regards, Roger
< Fungicides are useless when treating diseases on fish. A fungus will attack dead tissue and will usually not attack living tissue. A antibiotic is probably in order since the water changes don't seem to work. When using an antibiotic be careful because it may affect the biological filtration so watch for ammonia spikes.-Chuck>

Re: Redness near pectoral fins...
Medicating An Established Aquarium - 06/05/09
My 1 sick cichlid actually looked much better, 24 hours after I did a 10% water change & introduced Interpet Anti Bacteria to the tank. His body was turning slight more yellow now (still on the dark side) and his pectoral joints were not so red anymore. I felt happy and it looked like the Interpet was working. Plus the booklet for Interpet said that it was safe for bio-filters.
Then a new problem arose. I should not have listened to my LFS and used the yellow powder. Looks like the yellow powder killed off my bio-filter.
Yesterday at 6 pm, I noticed that another cichlid was looking tired and turning color from yellow to black. Oh no, another sick fish. This makes 2 now!!
I tested the water immediately and found 0.5 ammonia. My fishes were under heavy ammonia poisoning attack since my water pH is high. Plus the water smelled bad.
I quickly changed 20% water, added loads of bio-filter bacteria, anti-chlorine & vitamin complex, then I went to bed. This morning when I woke up, ammonia was back to 0 and nitrites were 0 too.
Questions:- How many days should I let my fishes recover from the ammonia attack before I start my 2nd dose of Interpet? Should I even continue to heal the internal infection now or just rely on water changes and vitamin?
Regards, Roger
< This is why we usually recommend treating fish in a hospital tank instead of an established aquarium. The antibiotics seem to be working but the ammonia spike can be deadly. If I did not have the option of a hospital tank I would recommend the following. First thing I would do is clean the filters, vacuum the gravel and do a 50% water change. Remove any driftwood.
One the first day I would medicate as per the directions on the package.
The next day I would do a 50% water change. One the third day I would medicate again. On the fourth day I would change 50% of the water. On the fifth day I would medicate for the last time. On the sixth day I would change 50% of the water and add a good activated carbon to remove any left over medication. On the seventh day I would add Dr. Tim's One and Only bacterial starter culture and resume lightly feeding the fish. Do not feed sick fish.-Chuck>.

Re: Redness near pectoral fins...
Ammonia Stress On Fish - 06/05/09
Hello WWM Crew, I came home from work today and checked on the fishes. The 2 still look tired. So I added an extra 5ml of bio-filter bacteria, just to make sure the ammonia stays at zero.
In all your years as aquarist, have you ever successfully manage to save a fish from ammonia stress? Did the fish eat, swim and have all it's normal body functions/looks again? What was the fastest and longest time it took for your fish to recover from ammonia stress? Regards, Roger
< The main physical trauma to fish is a severe reduction of the gill tissues. If too severe then the fish usually don't recover because they can't breath. The ammonia trauma depends on the concentration of ammonia and how long the fish are exposed to it. As you already know that the ammonia ion is more deadly at basic pH ranges.-Chuck>

Re: Redness near pectoral fins...
Fish With Redness Near Fins Slowly Getting Better  6/11/09
Hello again, It's been 7 days now, main tank has been on Interpet No.9 Anti Bacteria. My bio-filter has not been compromised in anyway, which is good news. I've been following your medication & water changes steps. My water's pH is on the 8.0 to 8.3 range. Ammonia and nitrites are at zero. Both fishes look slightly better.
- I notice that they are more willing to swim around with the others now, instead of just lying at the bottom of the tank to rest.
- The darkness on their skin has slightly faded off but they are not fully yellow again.
- Eating is still an issue. They grab the flake but spits it out.
- I still notice redness at the pectoral fin joints and around the mouth.
I've looked closely at them and found no other signs of sickness. Fins are ok, no worms sticking out of their bodies, lips are not rotting or swollen...etc
I really hope they make it and not die of hunger. I'm out of ideas as to what is causing the redness around the pectorals and mouth. Is there anything else I can do? Should I stop the Interpet?
Regards, Roger
< I am unable to find out what the ingredients are for the patented formula for Interpet No. 9,. Anti bacterial. It is difficult to tell if it is really working or the water changes and improved water quality are improving the overall health of your fish. The fact that the biological filtration wasn't affected makes me wonder about the effectiveness of the medication. In the U.S. I would recommend using a real antibiotic like Nitrofuranace or Erythromycin because I know what is in these medications . If one did not work then I could switch to another. If the fish is improving then I would continue with the existing treatment.-Chuck>

Re: Redness near pectoral fins...
Antibiotics May Affect Biological Filtration 6/13/09
Hi WWW Crew, I checked the Internet and found that API (Aquarium Pharmaceuticals) is an American company. After browsing their website, I found that they too sell medications that are bio-filter safe. Products like Furan-2, Melafix, Pimafix, Tetracycline and Triple Sulfa does not hard bio-filter. So would you question the effectiveness of these API products since they claim that these are bio-filter safe? Have you had successful experiences with them? Regards, Roger
< Medications can say anything they want on the package. Bacteria convert ammonia to nitrites and then nitrates. Different kinds of bacteria attack the living tissues of aquarium fish. Is it possible for some antibiotics to be selective enough to only kill the bacteria attacking the fish? Sure it is. In your particular situation you have a fish with some redness around the pectoral fins along with some other symptoms. Are you satisfied with the results of treating with Interpet #9? If you are, then continue to treat as per the directions on the package. If not, then it hasn't worked.
I would recommend treating with a known antibiotic like Nitrofurazone or Erythromycin. Regardless of what they say on the package I would recommend treating in a hospital tank. If you have to treat in the main tank then I would still caution you about ammonia and nitrite spikes.-Chuck>

Auratus distress?? 5/6/09
Greetings Folks:
<Hello James,>
I'm a beginner with a 29 gal fresh water Cichlid tank purchased from a local fish supplier, not a chain store. He buys directly from a long known, to him, breeder.
<A nice practice.>
I had done some reading about the hobby beforehand and asked the obvious questions about the cycle, feeding, and cleaning, etc. He assured us that we could enjoy the hobby without a lot of technicalities and to start with inexpensive fish until we had some experience and might want to upgrade.
<It's true, up to a point. Does depend very much on the size of the tank and the fish chosen.>
So, I have to this point relied on his guidance. We have now had the tank in operation for just over three weeks without any obvious problems, except the one about which I will soon describe and is the reason I am writing.
<OK.>
Anyhow, the glass tank is equipped with a Tetra Whisper EX 45 filter. I have also put in an air stone and a Mini-Jet sub pump for water circulation. The tank is decorated with plastic plants and structures for cover. The bottom is rough gravel, about .5" to 1.25" diameter, about two inches deep across the entire bottom.
<If you don't have (live!) plants with roots, you really want to minimise the depth of gravel. Gravel is "dead space" whereas additional water moderates pH variation and dilutes water quality problems. So in tanks with no plants (or just floating plants and epiphytes) you use just enough gravel or sand to cover the glass and stablise any rocks/ornaments.>
We started with three African Cichlids.
<Ah, major mistake here. With few exceptions, none of the widely traded Rift Valley cichlids (which is surely what you mean) are viable in 29 gallons. Yes, you could stick 'em in there, but chances are they'll tear each other to bits, or else end up with assorted problems caused by water quality/chemistry issues.>
I wish I could identify them all to you but searching bleary eyed through four internet photo sites devoted to Cichlids, I could only ID several ( I will continue my search, though I guess the easy way would be to just ask the LFS). Of the first three, one was a female Melanochromis Auratus about 1.5" long, an albino about 2" long, and an small, inquisitive orange fellow with a few random black markings.
<Also, another mistake. The hobby is inundated with hybrid Rift Valley cichlids, which have poor colours and unpredictable behaviour and adult sizes. Never, ever buy a Rift Valley cichlid that doesn't come with its Latin name, and even then, be alert to possible hybrids, and only pick fish that precisely match the photos in your book. While there are rare varieties of, say, Pseudotropheus zebra different to the blue specimens you'll see in your book, such fish will be pricey, so you'll know they're genuine. Cheap Malawian cichlids (by which I mean Mbuna costing under £5/$7 a pop) are highly likely to be hybrids, and almost certainly so if sold as "Mixed African Cichlids"!!!>
My LFS said that cichlids were pretty hardy, that the cycle would take care of itself, and to come back in a week with a water sample. We did as he said. The water tested "perfect" and he said we could add three more fish if we wanted to. Of course we did, since the first three fish seemed to be doing quite nicely. We added a male Auratus, a Pseudotropheus Saulosi, and an additional albino.
<Now, Melanochromis auratus is possibly the most psychotic fish in the hobby. Males will dominate 55 gallon systems, by which I mean they can/will kill other fish they don't like. Pseudotropheus saulosi is a "dwarf" Mbuna and consequently easier to house, even though it isn't especially peaceful; you can simply expect to keep a group in a slightly smaller tank than, say, Pseudotropheus zebra, and fights are less likely to end in death, merely mayhem.>
After an evening of getting acquainted, they all seemed to be getting along famously.
<Often seems to be the case when immature; I cannot stress too strongly the point that it's the sexually mature males of all these fish that cause the problems. Just because your juveniles get along when they're an inch or two in length, there's no reason at all to imagine they'll stay tolerant of one another.>
The next week the water again tested "perfectly" and we added three more fish. Another Saulosi and two larger fish about 2" long, a white guy with a couple of black horizontal stripes from mid-torso to the top, and a blackish purplish brute with a gorgeous purple horizontal stripe mid-torso. Curiously, the two larger fish
immediately sought shelter and seemed generally disagreeable for a couple days. About a week later, I noted some brown spot algae, so I did about a fifteen percent water change, using Tetra AquaSafe in the added water, getting the temp as near as possible to the existing tank water, about 78 Dg F., and changed out the Tetra charcoal filter (which was filthy). About ten days later, we went back to the LFS. The water tested "perfect" again.
<Do really want to encourage you to use numbers, not concepts, when talking about water quality/chemistry. At minimum, buy a nitrite test kit and a pH test kit; you're after 0 nitrite and a pH around 8 for these fish. Ideally, you'd want a carbonate hardness (KH) test kit as well; on this, you're after around 10 degrees KH.>
He said that the brown algae was normal for the stage of the tank and not to fret about it.
<Up to a point, true.>
He said we could add a couple of Clown Loaches and a Pleco, so we did.
<No, no, no... not in this tank. Clowns need an entirely different habitat, and the Plec is redundant. Mbuna eat algae, and so do Plecs; at best, the Plec is competing with them for food, and at worst, competing for space and filtration capacity too. I'd take all the loaches and catfish back.>
The Pleco and the big purple guy had some issues about who was going to occupy the shelter of the sunken pirate ship, but by the following evening peace and harmony reigned. The Loaches are a delight, the Pleco is hard to find most times. Overall they are all fascinating and ever ready to eat. I've tried to keep my wife from feeling sorry for the little beggars and not to overfeed them.
<Quite.>
Food: the LFS recommended using pellets used by the breeder, Extreme Aquatic Foods Inc, Cichlid Diet pellets. Since adding the Loaches and the Pleco, I also use Top Fin Algae thins.
<Fine.>
To the problem: This past Monday, I did a 20% water change because it is becoming obvious that these guys and gal are not bashful about their bodily functions.
<Plecs defecate constantly; they're herbivores, and that's what herbivores do. If you've ever spend time with horses or cows, this won't be news. To a degree, it's true for herbivorous cichlids too. This is why you need a heavy duty filter; I'd install something rated at 8-10 times the volume of the tank in terms of turnover per hour; so for s 30 gallon tank, your filter should be between 240 and 300 gallons per hour in capacity. Anything less isn't going to work, long term.>
All seemed right with their world, except yesterday we noted that the male Auratus was sort of isolating himself, hiding under plant leaves, or in the corner of the tank. He did not engage in the usual chasing activities with the female or other fish. Today is more of the same and he is not eating. Additionally, after watching him closely for an hour, it seems that he is not using his right side fin/flipper as he meanders slowly from spot to spot. He is not lying on the bottom or on any structure but seems to prefer the under-leaf hideout or to keep his right side near the side of the tank. None of the other fish are acting strangely, or exhibit any outward indications of problems There is a lot of debris in the water and I will do a water change tomorrow.
<My gut reaction is a water quality issue. All Malawian and Tanganyikan cichlids are hypersensitive to nitrate, and even trace levels of ammonia and nitrite will severely stress them. In addition, busy aquaria (i.e., overstocked ones) will experience much faster pH changes than lightly stocked tanks, and unless you have a very high level of carbonate hardness, Malawian and Tanganyikan cichlids should only be kept in water that has been "hardened" with cichlid salt mix; see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwh2oquality.htm
Specifically, you're after 0 ammonia; 0 nitrite; less than 20 mg/l nitrate; a stable pH 8; general hardness 15+ degrees dH; carbonate hardness 10+ degrees KH. Temperature isn't critical, but around 25 C/77 F is about right; avoid higher temperatures unless you specifically increase water circulation as well; these fish are sensitive to low oxygen levels, and the warmer the water, the less oxygen it holds.>
I can't give you water chemistry because to this point I have relied on the LFS for the technicalities.
<Without the numbers, it's really difficult to say anything useful. It's sort of like expecting a doctor to diagnose something on the basis of you saying you don't feel good, but without him checking your pulse, temperature, red blood cell count or whatever. It all comes down to cold hard numbers! But to keep you going for the moment, have a read of this:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_2/malawian_cichlids.htm
>
I intend to change that but the LFS says more problems are created by adding "treatments" and to just be sure to keep the water clean and not overfeed.
<Up to a point, yes, adding treatments or chemicals to the water -- such as the mindless addition of aquarium salt -- at best does nothing and at worst complicates things. But in the case of Malawi and Tanganyika cichlids, it's virtually impossible to keep them properly without adding a cichlid salt mix to each bucket of water. You also need to be using coral sand -- not gravel -- and the tank should be decorated with limestone such as tufa rock -- not plants, wood, etc. Strong filter turnover is also important. Every aspect of the aquarium should be tailored towards increasing carbonate hardness, buffering against pH changes, and optimising water flow.>
So.........?
Thanks,
JM
<Cheers, Neale.>

Tropheus kiku has developed a bulge.
Wild Tropheus With Bulge   4/1/2009
The fish is a female wild caught Tropheus sp. Red .
She has been in the US for at least 17 months. Problem occurred around Oct/Nov 2008. (Arrived from the lake Nov/Dec 2007 I believe)
I bought this colony from friend who is a large collector of Tropheus here in Houston (where I live) in Jan 09, and he is keeping this female until we can resolve this. (as he has more of the facilities to do this for me, but I am doing as much leg work as I can, so I can take home my last fish)
She has developed a bulge on one side of her body. Pictures included see below. She is currently in a 20g hospital tank.
She has been medicated with a Melafix, Pimafix, Clout, Epsom salt and a few other medications. Nothing seems to help. She eats, poops and everything a fish normally does, including coming to the glass when someone is near, come to the surface to hit the food like any Tropheus does. I am most interested in a diagnoses, as this is something I have yet
been able to determine. Weekly 50% water change.
pH 7.75 electronically measured.
None of the other fish in the tank she was previously was in shows any signs of this issue. This fish was in a tank with 10 other and 35+ Ikola (all WC). Hopefully the pictures will assist the most.
There is a lot of them so please bear with me.
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-009.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-010.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-011.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-012.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-013.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-014.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-015.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-017.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-018.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-019.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-020.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-021.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-022.jpg
http://www.thehouseofdew.com/fish/fishtour/fishtour2009/tanktour2009-1-033.jpg
Thank you J Jesper, Jesper Houken Prairie Fyre Administrator
< Wild fish come in with all kinds of parasites both internal and external.
Dealers can medicate to get rid of some parasites but sometimes not all of them. Because you fish is wild there is no way to determine the age of the fish. Older fish have a much more difficult time with stress then younger fish. I have had wild A. calvus with the same problem. I would recommend a treatment of a combin ation of Metronidazole and Nitrofuranace and raise the water temp to 82 F. This combination should treat both internal and external infections. While diving in lake Tanganyika in 2002 I actually found wild fish affected with this condition.-Chuck>