Nitrates/Nitrate Control 11/18/09
Ok so I will try to make this my last question, at least for a while. Since I seem to have a Nitrate issue with levels of around 40 ppm fish only with some rock and fake corals. I have large aggressive fish, and am curious to help with this battle of higher nitrates then. I would like to get some sort of algae that I can put directly into the aquarium that will do well on it's own w/o calcium supplements etc. but not take completely over. I was looking into Caulerpa but after reading some of the forums it does not seem like a good idea. My current set-up does not have room for a refugium, however I do have a denitraor <denitrator>. I mainly just wanted to give my current setup a boost to help keep levels at there <their> best. Please advise on what my <might> work for my needs, there are so many choices out there on the net, and I am afraid of getting something into my tank that I will end up regretting later. I will say that I liked the idea at first of the Caulerpa for the added benefits of overall fish health and immunity, or at least that is what the site was trying to sell. If you do in fact have a recommendation could you also offer a place to purchase. Once again I do not want to get shafted by a place just trying to make a buck... Your site is very helpful and you guys are awesome to offer these types of services especially online.
<Without knowing your tank size, inhabitants, and their sizes, I'll lean towards thinking your tank is overstocked, you are importing nutrients faster than you can export them. A good investment would be a quality efficient skimmer.
Since I do not know your tank size or whether you use a sump, I cannot recommend one.
You can look here.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Skimmers.
And you can learn more about controlling nitrates/nutrients by reading here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm>
Thanks again, =
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Re Nitrates/Nitrate Control... still not reading... give him the hook  11/18/09
Sorry I have a 220g tank with sump w/ bio balls, protien <protein> skimmer, and denitrator. I have a Lion Fish, Clown Trigger, Stars And Stripes Puffer, M-grouper, and a Snowflake Eel. That's it. I have spoken to
another person on your site and he stated that the load is fine, for my size aquarium, however I will be unable to add more which I am ok with. I only feed every other day. Hopefully this will help to better
assist with my question.
<The fish load may be fine for your tank, but these fish are all huge waste producers and your present skimmer (?) may not be up to the task. Do you clean your skimmer on a weekly basis, especially the riser/reaction tube where the gunk collects?
Goes a long way in maintaining skimmer performance. You may want to consider using activated carbon or Chemipure to help with this problem. Do read the information the link takes you too that I posted in the last
email.>
Thanks again.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Tank Relocation and Reconstruction (and Nitrates) - 10/27/09
Advice much appreciated!
<<Quite welcome, Liana>>
Quite sure that the RO unit is not the problem, I have a monitor on it that tells me the TDS plus I use the same unit to provide water for my 29 gal seahorse tank (up and running for about 4 years) that does not have the nitrate problem.
<<I see>>
I am planning on adding a couple Tunze 6065 power heads for additional water movement.
<<Excellent…and may also help with suspending accumulated detritus for removal>>
I am here every day (except weekends and vacations) and do all the care, feeding and maintenance.
<<Okay…but hopefully there is someone you have trained/trust to look after the tank on those occasions when you are not>>
Actually the residents keep a good eye out for me to make sure no one touches the tank.
<<Ah…very good>>
Do occasionally run into the overfeeding issue a bit on my vacations, but it is mostly manageable.
<<Okay>>
Will likely remove the Hippo per your recommendation.
<<Better for the tank and the fish…in the long term. These robust, active, and even “twitchy” fish really do need more space to be comfortable and remain healthy>>
Any additional advice re the nitrate issue would be great.
<<You didn’t mention before, any specific symptoms re the high Nitrates. You did mention that substantial water changes did not correct this (speaking of which, do also test your salt mix), but did they have “any” effect? Have you confirmed the validity of your test kits? If your water source, overfeeding, or stocking levels are not the issue here…look to “what” you are feeding (replace flake foods with New Life Spectrum pellets, drain and rinse thawed frozen foods prior to feeding, omit any food supplements for a while) or to the possibility that something added to the tank (décor, rock, etc.) is contributing to the high Nitrates>>
Thanks again.
<<Always welcome… EricR>>

Baffling Nitrates: SW Nitrate reduction SW Nutrient Control.    10/7/09
Good Morning Crew!
<Hi Jéan>
As always I'm writing because I just can't figure out what is going on, and *I've* always said the best way to expedite an answer is to add a fresh mind. So, my father and I have been putting in some serious time on his 20 year old 55 gal trying to get things up to date with current industry knowledge. Not much background needed other than he's been running it with an UG filter, Whisper 6(?) and bleaching his 2-3 rocks during every water change( I think about once a year on average?) since about the early '80s. But, keep in mind, at the time this was common and dare I say, state of the art. So, foregoing any judgment on the readers part if this happens to get posted,
<Ahh yes, I recall answering a query from you before.>
I'll jump right into it. I've managed to convince him to make quite a few changes in the last 3 months. We've removed the UG and plastic plants which had started to break down and completely cleaned all of the gravel (crushed coral, about 2mm in size) during the last few months. I've provided him with premixed RO/DI water that I use from my favorite LFS, they use Red Sea (Bioassay Formula?) and we use that on 20% water changes weekly. Strict schedule at least for the last 2 months. Matched temp and ph and SG every time. Tested the make-up water for Nitrate, phosphate, ph, dKH (which was really high, but equalized in the tank) and calcium to make sure everything was on the up and up, but I trust the LFS all the same. Added his very first skimmer, a CPR BakPak which we've removed the 'bale and added Halimeda, it was currently the only macro I could get my hands on for free, I've since come into some Batophora and am waiting on some growth to replace that with.
<May want to try some Chaetomorpha http://www.wetwebmedia.com/grnalgselfaqs.htm You can grow it in your main tank - I just place it between two rocks and let it go, harvesting a clump or two every week.>
He gets about cup of dark green tea every few days, not perfect, but at least it's pulling something. We've also purchased 3-4 very pretty cured live rocks covered in coralline and added that to the tank. Cleaned the power heads of gunk, and replaced the filter pads with brand new ones which will be a weekly routine if I have a say. Added Rowaphos to the skimmer (holy crap that stuff works wonders, took the phosphate from off the charts down to about .25ppm in a week) All day long, his tank is so much happier!
<All good and excellent news so far.>
Yellow tang is out and about all day long ( though stricken with a very bad case of HLLE ) The 2 10"-12" engineering gobies aren't hiding anymore (which would explain why we haven't opted for a DSB yet) and he's even added a coral beauty who is done very well. His feeding regimen has since changed from feeding all brine shrimp (thaw water and all) to a small amount of balanced pellets, a small sheet of dried algae in the afternoon, and occasionally a treat of brine.
<Also very good.>
In my opinion I think his tank is lightly stocked and I applaud him on his feeding habits now. I just can't figure out why the nitrate won't come down!
They constantly hover around 60-80 on a API colorimetric test kit. I test before and after a water change, and I think I'm going blind looking for a change in color.
Using the same test kit on my tank at home reveals around 20 ppm before a water change, which infuriates my father after all we've done. Granted, I believe this to be quite the rags to riches tale here, but I just can't find the culprit and it's starting to really bug me. I would think after the last water change I would've seen some drop but I get nothing. I'm stuck and I hate to say it, but I think he might be at a breaking point soon. I need some fresh ideas, please help! :)
<You have a few issues that need to be addressed. First, while I use a lot of API test kits, I don't like the nitrate test kit at all, as it is hard to determine the color change, and if you do not follow the directions exactly your results will be off. You would do better to use a Red Sea or Salifert test kit Color changes are easier to detect and the test is a bit more user friendly. Secondly, you need to look at your nitrate levels mathematically. If your nitrate levels are at 80ppm, and you change 20% of the water with nitrate free water, you will reduce your nitrate to 64ppm - you will not see a real change on the test kit with readings like that - in the seven days between changes, it creeps right back up again as there still isn't enough in the tank to consume it.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm
Finally, are you testing your water from the LFS? Nitrate is one of the first things to creep back in if the filters are older.>
We'd like to try and get a good clean up crew, but with the gravel we can't very well get any 'sand sifting' animals, and with the water quality I'm very apprehensive on introducing anything new, especially inverts which puts me in a catch 22. He should have a good clean up crew, but can't implement. As soon as I have enough Batophora I'll gladly give him some which will be teaming with mini-brittles and copepods and bristle worms from my tank, but until then we're stuck. Is there anything I haven't looked at?
<You are on the right track, Adding some more live rock and some macroalgae will help. Also, for a period of time, larger water changes - 30 - 40% will help drive the levels down further.>
Jéan
<MikeV>

SW Nutrient\nitrate Control 10/2/2009
Hello folks,
<hi Frank, it's been a while.>
I had a few questions for you if you don't mind. First I should give you the details you need. I have a 75 gallon tank with about 110 pounds of live rock and 50-60 pounds of live sand (the sand is around 2 inches deep in tank). I have a CPR overflow that runs into a 20 gallon sump that I have divided into three sections using acrylic and aquarium sealant. The first chamber where the water drains from the display is where I have my protein skimmer, an ASM G1. The water then spills over into a small chamber where I have a small refugium with about an inch of sand, some live rock rubble, a chunk of Chaetomorpha, and my two heaters. It then spills over and under two walls into the return chamber where I have a bag of activated carbon and a bag of De-nitrate, a couple of the Algone pouches that I change out twice a week or so and the pump sends it back up to the display. I also have two powerheads in the display two increase water circulation. Lighting is two 10k and two blue actinic bulbs.
Now on to stock. I currently have two small clowns (1-1.5 inches), a coral beauty angel (3-4 inches), a psychedelic mandarin (2 inches), a Mystery wrasse (3 inches), I love this fish, a small chocolate chip star and a small brown brittle star. Lastly I have a snowflake moray that is about 8-9 inches long.
<All as I remember - nice to see you got a larger tank..
I feed the fish a frozen block of either mysis shrimp, marine cuisine, or blood worms that I first thaw in a little cup of tank water and mix with few drops of Selcon once a day. I feed the eel either freeze dried krill or thawed silversides soaked in Selcon every 2-3 days.
<All sounds good.>
Water tests:
Ph - 8.2-8.3 I use liquid buffer in top off water and add to tank to maintain level
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 20-30 (one question pertains to this)
Alkalinity - 16 dKH
Calcium - 400-450 I dose with reef complete or purple up 2 times a week Salinity - 1.025
Temp- 79-80 degrees
<Nitrate a little high, but otherwise good.>
The tank has recently been set back up after bringing it home from my girlfriends house where it had been set up for around 5 months. I kept about 25-30 gallons of the water and used it along with new RO/DI salt water( that's all I use when doing water changes and I top off with RO/ DI fresh water)
<OK>
Now a few questions!
I still get the brown diatom on the sand really bad if I leave the 10k bulbs on for several hours, so what can I do to stop it?
<Keep up with the water changes, have you tested for silicates?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/diatomfaqs.htm >
Why can I not get my nitrates to go below 20? They stay about 20 even after doing partial water changes where I vacuum the sand bed!
<You may want to step up the water changes a bit, and cut back a little on the feeding.>
Have I overstocked my tank? I was thinking about adding a diamond goby to help turn over the sand bed.
<You are at the ragged edge of overstocking. I would make larger water changes - 20% per week - you will see the numbers coming down.>
Anyways, sorry for the endless email but I value your input and any suggestions you might have for any aspect of my tank will definitely be taken to heart.
<have a read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm >
Thanks,
Frank
<MikeV>

what to do? SW NO3   9/27/09
Hey all,
<Hi Tina>
I am doing something wrong & just can't figure it out! I have a 95g saltwater reef tank, which has been set up for 3 years and have never been able
to get the nitrates under 20 for any length of time.
<Mmmm, "many roads"...>
I have written to you before & added more live rock (now 175 lbs) and live sand, it is now mostly 4"-5" deep except right in the front where it is 3"-31/2" deep, (area being 36"L X 5" W) I have a Lifereef protein skimmer & 2) Koralia 3 pumps & 1 maxi jet with the eco mod upgraded to 1600 gph. Fish are 2 clown blennies, 1 maroon W/BTA, 1 6 line wrasse, 1 false Lemonpeel angel, 1 lawnmower blenny, 1 firefish, 1 Arabian Pseudochromis, shrimp, snails, hermit crabs. Test stats: ammo - 0, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 20. PH 8.2, salinity 1.24, calcium 420, mag. 1140. A few weeks ago I tried AZ-NO3. starting off using the dosage for a 75g. tank. Nothing changed until the 8th day when I noticed my birdsnest frag was losing it's color. I stopped treatment (nitrates showed no change)
I have several sps frags but they never colored well, I am pretty sure this is because of the nitrates. (forgot to mention this I use R/O water which is tested every 3 months & shows 0 phos, nitrates, etc.) A friend uses sulphur in a canister & his nitrates are zero so I thought I would give that a try. But after the AZ-NO3 incident I decided to do a test first.
I used 5 gallons of water from my tank & put it in a bucket, added 2 cups of NO- NO3 to a Nextreef reactor & fired it up. Had the water flow at 1/3 cup water per minute. To my surprise the next day the nitrites were off the scale & the nitrates had doubled to 40. Good thing this was an experiment in a bucket & not my tank! I don't understand though why that happened since nothing was added to the water (fish food etc).
<Just chemical decomposition>
I am not opposed to using the bucket to fine tune or cycle the Nextreef reactor with the sulphur and then putting it on my 95, but would like to know what went wrong with the experiment, really thought it would just lower the ph (which it did to 8.0)
In fact what I would really like to know is what is this tank trying to tell me that I just can't seem to figure out. I don't think I have too many fish,
<Agreed>
I think the circulation seems good, I blow the rock off with a turkey baster when I do a 20g water change weekly & since I added more circulation there is hardly anything coming off the rock when I do this.
The live sand seems well populated with all sorts of worms &copepods, I have 4 Tonga Nassarius snails, plus a bunch of little snails I have forgotten the name of to stir the sand. I have lots of small starfish (not brittle stars more compact) I have an option of getting a wet/dry with overflow & skimmer at a really good deal & thought maybe I could use that somehow (suggestions???)
<Yes! Modify this into a refugium. Read here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/wdmodconv.htm>
One other note I do not have any film on the top of my water which I did before I upgraded the protein skimmer. Also I have a 250 W 14K metal halide light. I also in the last 3 months have tried Brightwell Neozeo system with Microbacter which didn't do anything. And have tried Prodiobiotic.
I feed 1 time a day maybe 1/4 tsp of food, I give the BTA 1/3 shrimp every 2 weeks, Brightwells coral amino 20 drops weekly, Vitamarin C & Restor 1 cap each weekly, and 1/8 tsp coral frenzy weekly. What to do?
<For one... I'd definitely be "checking your checker"... Try another test kit... and read yours re whether it is testing for nitrate itself or nitrogen as nitrate... Something is indeed amiss here>
It seems for some reason I am at a stalemate with these nitrates I can go without a water change for a month & they are at 20 I can change 20 g of water weekly & within a day they go back to 20 I am really sick of 20!!!! Maybe 8 months ago WWB recommended more live sand or live rock, I added about 60lbs of sand over about a month but the nitrates remained firmly at 20 altho the brown diatoms reduced to almost nothing. sorry this was so long & hoping you can help
Tina
<And please do review our marine NO3 files:
http://wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: what to do? NO3...  9/29/2009
<Mmm, where is the prev. corr.? You're starting out in media res... and I/we don't know what you're referring to>
Hi again,
Thanks for your quick answer !
<Who? There are a couple dozen of "us" here>
I read up on the sites you had linked.
The nitrate kits I have been using are Red Sea, API, and my most recent Salifert. When I was reading I noticed a person said that their skimmer only produced gunk on the inside of the collection cup not really spilling over, mine does the same thing. If I turn it up a little then I get a very light color water in the cup. WWM said that the RedOx was probably too low. I think that might be some (all?) of my problem also.
<Mmm, okay... but for what reason/s is the ORP low is the real question/solution>
I read the articles about converting the wet/dry into a refugium. Since I think I have enough live rock/sand I was thinking I would use Chaeto , would that be enough or should I add sand/mud/rock?
<Up to you>
I have a Current 18w Smartpaq that I can use for lighting if you think that would be enough for the Chaeto?
<Yes, posted>
My tank really does look pretty, no algae, crystal clear water, fish are fat & healthy, sand white, I only clean the glass once a week so no complaints about the "look" It is just the few sps frags that were so colorful when they came in are now mostly a muddy green, and that "look" is certainly not what I wanted. Do you think the refugium will turn this around?
<Should definitely help>
Is it just the nitrates doing this, or is there something else that I am missing?
<The NO3 concentration is simply a window into events here>
Your team was a big factor solving my original problems a year ago by suggesting I double my rock & sand, getting rid of my Filstar canister filter, and upgrading my protein skimmer. All of which is why I can now say the tank is pretty because it sure wasn't before I followed your advice. Thanks again to all the WWM crew
Tina
<Do please include prev. corr. when writing us. Thank you, Bob Fenner>

Tank and stocking questions, NO3, and lg. SW sys. stkg. f's  9/6/09
Hello. Here is the info I sent to Mr. Fenner last week. I thought it might be helpful:
<Morning John>
Hey Mister Fenner thanks so much for your help. It is most appreciated as always. I have another question for you, or whomever is there if you have the time. I read all your sites posts on Nitrates but I am still confused at why I keep having this problem. My 450 is stocked with about 500 pounds of liverock. 300 pounds originally and another 200 of lace rock
<Very often a source of too much ortho phosphate... See Marco's article:
http://wetwebmedia.com/phosphatemar.htm>
added gradually to be seeded by the live rock. about 5 to 6" of live sand, added more as time passed. I am running a dual refugium 2 twenty gallon ones connected in the sump one with crushed live rock rubble and the other with green algae. I run a timed florescent light at night and natural sunlight during the day. The tank takes up the entire wall between 2 windows of my den and has great sunlight from all sides of the room. I have a top of the line skimmer rated for my system and electronic heating system. I run 8 powerheads front, side and back to create cross currents.
I do a 20% water change faithfully every 2 weeks. The system is terminally stocked and holds one 8" queen angel, one 8" clown trigger ( I watch him closely as advised by you years ago), one 8" niger trigger, one 6" Bluechin trigger, one 6" Aussie harlequin tusk, one 12" Atlantic blue tang, one 7" princess parrot, one 10" orange toadfish (fed once a week), one 8" lunare wrasse, and two golden morays, 15" each (fed once a week or once every 2 weeks). I feed the fish sushi Nori in the a.m., a small amount of spectrum large fish formula at noon and a small amount of chopped frozen octopus, squid, clam, shrimp, crab, scallop, (one of these) at night. My entire home is run on a r/o system and their are zero nitrates present in the water. I
use instant ocean as my mix and arm and hammer baking soda for the ph. My main issue is that after 4 years I just can't get my nitrates down to anywhere near zero. They normally run in the 40 to 80 range and are as high as 160. I am extremely frustrated as I put a lot of love, time and money into this hobby. I treat my fish like a dog or a cat. I read about a DIY coil denitrator as a possible help and have asked my LFS for advice but I seem to only get mixed opinions, none of which have worked. They did tell me I am overfeeding the fish so I am going to cut that back if you advise me to do so. I am exhausted spending 10 hours the last 2 days trying to lower the nitrates with massive water changes and cleanings. I would greatly appreciate anything you could do to help me. Not much saltwater help here in Michigan. Thanks again Mister Fenner or whomever answers this.
<We're glad to share>
My new questions are as follows: I am converting the other half of my refugium to algae as well so I will have 40 gallons of it for nitrate reduction.
<Good>
the live rock rubble (40 pounds or so) is left now. I was wondering if it would be ok to put it into the holding tank for return water.
<Yes>
This is the only place in the sump i have room. Please advise me on this.
My high nitrates have been going on for 4 years now. I work so hard through big water changes once every 2 weeks and cleaning of the tank/aggressive skimming, but I cant keep them below 80 to 100. I started dosing with vodka with a formula I found on reefkepers.com last week. I just lost my 4 year old queen angel due to a mouth infection caused by the nitrates. When the tank gets where I want it through water changes, vodka dosing and the algae I want to replace the queen with another queen or other large angel.
<Start with whatever species at about 4 inches in length here>
With the fish I have listed i would appreciate any advice you have as to which would be the best fit.
<See WWM re large/r Pomacanthids...>
if not a large angel I would like to add a good sized Indian ocean Sailfin if you think the Atlantic blue would not kill it.
<Start with one about half the length of the Acanthurus coeruleus>
Lastly my aiptasia are out of control and I want to add a large raccoon butterfly to get them under control.
<Okay>
There is one at my LFS that they will save for me for up to a month. I witnessed him tearing up aiptasia and any foods they added. I would like any advice you have as far as adding him to the tank and his safety.
<During a day when you can be present, early in the AM so the lights are on... should be able to be introduced directly with what you list, have and the fact that the LFS has had on hand for a while>
I have heard they usually get along with other fish and vise versa.
<This is so>
I know this is a lot of questions but I am majorly stressed out about this entire thing. I treat my fish like dogs and cats and have had them and this 450 acrylic for 4 years now. As always i appreciate any help you guys give me. you have been a great resource for me for years now. Thank you.
<Mmm, I do want to say a bit more re the NO3 issue... is there space in your main display or room elsewhere to add another sump, tied in, to run a large DSB? Bob Fenner>

Re: Tank and stocking questions, NO3    9/6/09
Hi Mister Fenner. Thanks so much as always for your helpful and quick response.
<Welcome John>
I had the liverock rubble in a saltwater filled container with a heater on it and since you have given me the go I will put it in my holding tank. I read the article on rock you sent the link to. This is not the type I have.
I have actually 300 pounds of Fiji liverock and I have been supplementing it with the Texas holey rock used in cichlid tanks. It is thoroughly cleaned/soaked when put into the tank. I do not have an algae problem believe it or not. (one good thing going for me:). After removing the liverock rubble and vacuuming about 3 inches of detritus off the bottom my nitrates are now 20 this morning!.
<Wow! Great!>
My tank is so huge and the sump area is laced with 2x4 cross beams to help support the massive weight so I could not get to this area in the past. I could not siphon it as a hose was not able to run under the sump housing.
I knocked a panel off the back corner and finally was able to remove the rock and vacuum this muck out. Now that I have access I will keep an eye on it. The algae I have in the 40 gallon area now has 5 different kinds including the thick red type. I am running brand new fluorescent bulbs 24/7 until I get good growth.
<Mmm, I would leave these lights off for 4-8 hours or so during the tank "light period" (when the main system lights are on). Most photosynthetic systems need a dark period... can't function being lit continuously>
I really wish I had the room for another sump but unfortunately mine is full to the max.
<Could you add a good deal of fine sand to the main/display tank? Make the DSB there?>
To the right of the 40 gallon algae refugium is a 40 gallon connected sump that houses a very large reef octopus skimmer and my electronic titanium heater. The reef octopus pulls about 2 full quart containers of skimmate per day when I am wet skimming which I am doing now.
<Wow!>
To the right of that is a 50 gallon holding tank. My sump is very full.
This tank is the centerpiece of my ground level den with the home entertainment center and sectional sofa. I think my wife would blow a fuse if I tried to connect anything outside of this lol.
<Good point>
I also started taking one of my 8 powerheads last night and blowing the detritus off of the rock last night. Huge clouds blew off of it. I was using a turkey baster before but this powerjet seems to be the ticket. The powerheads I have running at multiple levels front, side and back have a total of about 8,000 gph water movement. Please let me know if this is good for a 96x36x30 tank.
<It is indeed>
I researched large angels per your article and found my LFS has access to large queens and French's in the 5 to 6 " range. I have seen both of these many times diving in the Cayman Islands and all over the Caribbean and simply love them!. As far as the Indian ocean Sailfin (I think he is called a Desjardini, sic) the colorful one, my LFS has had one that was brought in by an owner because he was a terror. He is about 5" long and my Atlantic blue is about 10" long.
<Mmmm>
They will also hold him for me for a month if I want him. Do you think a bully like him would be a good fit for my tank?.
<They may well "joust" for a while, but I give you good odds that they will learn to live together here>
I spend hours and hours surfing your site and really enjoy your articles and those of all of your contributors. I really love how you push conservation and are an avid diver.
<Ahhh!>
I am retired from the U.S. Marines as of a few years ago and have travelled the world as well. My favorite place to dive is the Great Barrier Reef by far!.
<A beautiful area.>
I have dear friends in Sydney and Perth and I visit when I can and we always dive:). I will let you know about the long term success or not of the vodka dosing in several months. Thanks again Mister Fenner for all you and your staff do for our hobby. You are life savers as far as I am concerned.
John
<Thank you for your kind, encouraging words John. Much appreciated. BobF>

Re: Tank and stocking questions – 09/14/09
Hi there Mister Fenner. I hope all is well with you. I am giving you an update on my tank. My nitrates have been between 5 and 10 for a week now!.
<Yay!>
I really think the combination of the vodka dosing, extra algae in refugium and regular power-jetting of the live rock is working in combination nicely. I introduced the raccoon butterfly yesterday and all went very well at first. Then the huge Atlantic blue tang saw him and chased him mercilessly around the tank. He has been a bully for some time to other fish as well. It took me 90 minutes to catch him and I put him in the 40 gallon return tank for now.
<Good>
How long do you think I should keep him there, or should I simply take him to the LFS and let them find a new home for him.
<Give him a few days of "time out" and see how s/he does>
My next problem was a heart breaker. As soon as the clown trigger realized the only other fish his size was gone he began to take on the behavior you warned me about for years.
<Oh oh>
He chased every fish non stop all over the entire tank without rest.
Everyone was getting stressed to the max. I tearfully removed him and took him to the LFS to find a suitable home. Many shop there who have 1,000 gallon and up systems with sharks and the like so I know they will find him a good home.
<Ahh!>
I would like to know before I have to go through this heart break again if you think I could try another baby clown trigger or if he would probably just grow up and do the same.
<Ultimately... likely the same, with growth/age>
The fish in the tank are all at total peace for the first time in 4 years and I want to try and keep it that way. The raccoon is working on my aiptasia which is very nice. I do still want to add another queen or French
angel to replace the one I lost and am looking for one in the 4-5 inch range. I think if I do not get another clown and if the Atlantic blue goes back to the LFS I will consider my tank terminally stocked after adding the angel. Thanks again for all your help and advice mister Fenner. It is priceless to me.
<Am glad to aid your efforts John>
The fact that a man such as yourself takes the time to assemble a staff and help us all the time just blows me away. You are the unsung hero's in the fish keepers world and I salute you all!!!!.
John
<Certainly welcome. BobF>

Re: Tank and stocking questions, NO3 and ? f'     9/20/09
Greetings mister Fenner. My nitrates have been ZERO for the past 5 days now!!!!.
<And should remain so going forward... unless/until "something" changes>
I am so excited. No ammonia, no nitrite, 8.2 ph and 1.023 salinity. The water clarity is magnificent and the fish have never looked better. The raccoon butterfly is getting along marvelously with everyone and will even tail slap the bullies if they get too close. I had to put the Atlantic blue back into return tank as he wanted to be a bully still. It is odd but he seems to really love being in the 40 gallon return where he guards the live rock rubble the same way he does in the display.
<Ah yes... like a large, perhaps mean dog... Is fine being "king of its kingdom">
He eats great in there as well. Do you think I could keep him there a month or more as long as he thrives then try him in the display again?.
<Worth trying... but I suspect the one trial you've done will likely prove to be a permanent characteristic>
I joined the reef and FOWLR site where I learned of the vodka dosing because I wanted to thank them for the information and share my story. I have ended up keeping a running log there letting them know my progress.
<Ah, good>
I have also been able to help numerous beginners with they're questions as I have had 10 years under my belt now. I do not even remotely know what you and your staff do but it is nice to give back to others what I can just as you have done.
<Our efforts are confluent in intent and execution>
I have stopped increasing the vodka and my maintenance dose is 8.0 ml until I see I can lower it.
<Do keep a look out for the beginnings of "green hair algae"... often a result of such carbon addition; sign to diminish dose>
I monitor the nitrates daily. Lastly I would like your opinion on a wrasse question. I was wondering if you thought I could keep a red Coris with my lunare and Aussie harlequin in a system my size?.
<Likely so... Start with one of juvenile coloration... 3-4" overall likely... and it will likely get along, develop through female to terminal/male in a year or so>
If so how large should I buy the red Coris?.
<Ahh! I should read ahead of responding>
I will wait to hear back from you before making a move. The suggestion you gave on the 8 hours of darkness is helping greatly with my algae growth as well. Thanks again for everything. You truly make a huge difference in the hobby and the lowering of my stress level. I will keep you updated as time goes by.
John
<Thank you John. Bob Fenner>

Another High Nitrate Question/Algae Control 9/5/09
<Hi Bill>
I’m sure the subject line made you cringe but thanks for reading.
<Nah, get them quite often.>
I have a 55 gallon tank that I got from someone moving out of the country about 5 months ago. The tank has been running for about 2 years prior. I have been battling high nitrate levels (started well over 100ppm) since getting the tank.
<Yikes.>
Lost all but one fish (green bird wrasse) from what I think was ich or marine velvet (and stress from poor water quality). The tank only had a Marineland canister filter c230 when I got it. I added an Emperor 280 hang on filter and a Koralia 400gph power head after setting up tank in my apartment. Doing a 15-25 gallon water change every week has brought the n03 level below 100 but still higher then 50 (hard to be precise with either of the test kits I have been using). I can’t seem to get below 50ppm. I added an AquaC Remora skimmer 2 days ago (has been doing well, at least from I what I can tell so far. I have had to empty the cup the last two mornings). After reading over your site last night I decided that a dirty pre filter, old media, and bio balls (although I’m not sure if they belong in a wet filter to begin with) in the canister aren’t helping the situation.
<Correct, the bio-balls can be discarded if live rock is used in your tank.>
I “overhauled” the canister filter this morning: cleaned course filter pads in train tray one. Replaced old carbon media bags with filter floss in train tray 2 (figured with two carbon media packs in the hang on, more carbon wasn’t necessary). Replaced the bio filter media in tray 3 with new Fluval Biomax (leaving a few pieces to speed up new bacteria growth). And put Fluval Clearmax in the last tray to try and help with no3 removal, not sure if this stuff works but figured it won’t hurt.
<The protein skimmer and weekly water changes will be the best aid in nitrate reduction.>
The big thing with cleaning the canister was all the “gunk” that came out of it, so I was excited and figured I had finally found the source of the problem.
<Yes, these need to be cleaned weekly.>
Hooked the canister back up, cleaned some algae off the glass and did a 20 gallon water change……..waited about 2 hours tested………..+50ppm. I am using two different test kits because I convinced myself that one was wrong a couple months ago.
I have tested the tap water I am using and it is 0. I think I am still on the right track with cleaning the canister and the addition of the skimmer.
<Yes.>
I also removed the bio wheel from the hang on. I want to stock the tank again but I need to get this no3 under control first.
<Yes, do hold off adding fish, will just add to the problem at this stage.
Your Bird Wrasse requires more like a 125 gallon tank, a 55 is much to small for this fish, and the waste this fish produces in this confined space is contributing to your problem.>
I think the addition of more live rock will help.
<Not so much for nitrate control.>
I am not sure how much I have or how “live” it is but it’s about half way up the tank with enough room all the way around to get a mag float type algae cleaner around. the sand bed varies from 1 to 3 inches, so I think some more to augment the old sand and increase the depth a little will help.
<No more sand, your present sand bed may not be live and may be contributing to the problem.
May want to use a gravel/sand vacuum when changing water>
Will the nitrate level hurt or hinder any new live rock/sand growth?
<No, but it may become covered with nuisance algae making it unattractive.>
Should I do anything else with the canister besides clean it weekly?
<Might want to use Chemi-Pure rather than carbon, works much better in nutrient removal.>
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Great site by the way, a lot of great info.
<Thank you, and do follow guidelines on algae/nutrient control on our site and you should overcome this problem. Keep reading/learning my friend. James (Salty Dog)>
Bill

Re Another High Nitrate Question/Algae Control / Now, How Do I "Feed" A Fishless Tank? 9/14/09
Hello,
<Hi Bill>
So its been about a week since my question on high nitrates and based on your response and some further reading on your site I feel much more informed but still a little lost. I have done 2, 16 gallon water changes in the last week with no noticeable change in nitrate levels with the exception of the length of time it takes my nitrate test to get to the same dark
orange/red color (about 50ppm).
<The source must be controlled also.>
I think I am going to take the Green Bird Wrasse which came with the tank (55 gallon) to a LFS and let the tank sit fishless then restock the tank when the nitrate is under control.
<A good start, your tank is/will be much too small for housing a Bird Wrasse.>
Based on your advice as well as my observation on the activity of the fish (not to large, about 4 in, but extremely active) the tank is to small for the fish.
So........here is my question: without the fish and daily feedings how should I go about keeping the other inhabitants in good health and population. I wasn't sure about how "live" my rock and sand were until putting a flash light on the tank the other night I found that it seems very "alive". There are countless small bristleworms, amphipods, and spaghetti
type worms on the rock and sand. I also have one Pencil Urchin, two feather dusters, and a handful of tube worms growing on the rock. There is very little to no algae on the glass and sand, and minimal hair and red coralline on the rock. I don't want to lose what seems to be a good head start on a reef setup (which is another plus of no bird wrasse...invert safe!).
<The Pencil Urchin may need to be fed occasionally, but on the other hand, it is a live rock grazer and will/can cause damage to the rock, corals, and other sessile invertebrates.
Would not be something I would keep/want in a reef tank. As for your other inhabitants (tubeworms, dusters, etc), occasional feeding of DT's Live Phytoplankton or similar food is suggested. Mobile invertebrates should be fine without feedings.>
Side note: Don't have any previous experience with skimmers but I can't believe what that the AquaC Remora is getting out over the last week or so.
<Yes, a good skimmer/investment. Will definitely help lower your nitrate level.
James (Salty Dog)>

Re: Queen Angelfish sleeping habits... Now, NO3   8/27/09
Hey Mister Fenner thanks so much for your help. It is most appreciated as always. I have another question for you, or whomever is there if you have the time. I read all your sites posts on Nitrates but I am still confused at why I keep having this problem. My 450 is stocked with about 500 pounds of liverock. 300 pounds originally and another 200 of lace rock
<Do see WWM re... this rock can be problematical>
added gradually to be seeded by the live rock. about 5 to 6" of live sand, added more as time passed. I am running a dual refugium 2 twenty gallon ones
<Mmm, larger, much larger, would be much better>
connected in the sump one with crushed live rock rubble
<With fine sand...>
and the other with green algae. I run a timed florescent light at night and natural sunlight during the day. The tank takes up the entire wall between 2 windows of my den and has great sunlight from all sides of the room. I have a top of the line skimmer rated for my system and electronic heating system. I run 8 powerheads front, side and back to create cross currents. I do a 20% water change faithfully every 2 weeks. The system is terminally stocked and holds one 8" queen angel, one 8" clown trigger ( I watch him closely as advised by you years ago), one 8" niger trigger, one 6" Bluechin trigger, one 6" Aussie harlequin tusk, one 12" Atlantic blue tang, one 7" princess parrot, one 10" orange toadfish (fed once a week), one 8" lunare wrasse, and two golden morays, 15" each (fed once a week or once every 2 weeks). I feed the fish sushi Nori in the a.m., a small amount of spectrum large fish formula at noon and a small amount of chopped frozen octopus, squid, clam, shrimp, crab, scallop, (one of these) at night.
<Sounds very nice indeed>
My entire home is run on a r/o system and their are zero nitrates present in the water. I use instant ocean as my mix and arm and hammer baking soda for the ph. My main issue is that after 4 years I just can't get my nitrates down to anywhere near zero. They normally run in the 40 to 80 range and are as high as 160. I am extremely frustrated as I put a lot of love, time and money into this hobby. I treat my fish like a dog or a cat. I read about a DIY coil denitrator as a possible help
<Would have to be JUMBO sized>
and have asked my LFS for advice but I seem to only get mixed opinions, none of which have worked. They did tell me I am overfeeding the fish so I am going to cut that back if you advise me to do so. I am exhausted spending 10 hours the last 2 days trying to lower the nitrates with massive water changes and cleanings. I would greatly appreciate anything you could do to help me. Not much saltwater help here in Michigan. Thanks again Mister Fenner or whomever answers this.
<There are a few general approaches to keeping NO3 at bay... they're pretty exhaustively covered by reading here: http://wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Nitrate And Hair Algae Problems 8/20-/09 Hi, <Hello John> I would like to ask some advice on my constant Nitrate problem (I attached some pictures of my tank and refugiums, sorry about the picture of the tank, I took it this morning before the light turned on). <No problem.> I have a 54 gallon corner tank with a sand substrate (used to have crushed coral), live rock (about 40 or so pounds? not 100% sure), protein skimmer, 250w halide (on about 8-9 hours), soft corals (mushrooms, yellow polyps, Kenya trees, zoas, star polyps) and 5 fish (tomato clown I've had for over 12 years, pencil wrasse, black neon line goby, pixie hawk and green chromis. I had a 15 gallon high refugium underneath the tank with a sand substrate, mangroves and Chaeto where the water from the tank go into the refugium, until the water level gets too low in the tank and the return pump turns on, putting the water from the refugium back into the tank. I recently upgraded the refugium ( a few weeks ago) to 2 refugiums, a 29 gallon tank with 2 baffles where the water goes in the 29 gallon on the left side underneath an undergravel plate through a mixture of sand and refugium mud where the mangroves are planted and over another baffle where it is pumped down into the 15 gallon x-high where the Chaeto is and then the water is pumped back into the tank the same way as before. <I would not use the undergravel filter plate, can elevate nitrate levels.> My question is, I used to have a lot of trouble with high nitrates and hair algae, so I got rid of the crushed coral (which almost everyone told me can cause high nitrates) <Nonsense, crushed coral is actually aragonite.> and replaced it with "live" sand (I don't know about the "live" part, but it was the only sand I could find at the fish store) and I thought between the new sand and the water moving between the 2 refugiums my nitrates would go down and it would starve the hair algae. However, when I checked it again yesterday, it was still high. <You are not going to see changes that fast.> I even added some clams to the main tank and both refugiums to help "clean" the water. I ordered some more macro algae in the hopes I may just need some more things that will absorb the nitrates, but I don't know where it is coming from. <Coming from excess nutrients in the system somewhere.> I only feed the fish once a day and usually it is a few marine flakes or a few pellets, which always get eaten and never sit on the sand. I do 10 - 20% water changes (probably not as often as I should, usually once a month or maybe even twice a month if I'm lucky, but I do use an RO system), but I can't seem to get the nitrates to go down and also for the hair algae to go away. What am I doing wrong? Is there just not enough surface area in a corner tank? I am hoping, once I move, to get at least a 125 - 150 gallon tank, and still use the refugiums. <I'm guessing the Tomato Clown is very large and being so, a high waste producer contributing to your high nitrate levels. I did not see any mention of a protein skimmer in use, a must have for controlling nitrates. Do read here for further help with your problem. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm> Thanks. <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> John

Re: Nitrate and hair algae problems 8/21/09 Hi again James, <Ahh, he's marked himself "out". BobF here> Yes, I am using a protein skimmer (I thought I put it in my original message somewhere, if not I apologize) and although it doesn't get filled up with brown/green water as much as it used to, I still have to dump it out about once a week. <A good interval> Even though my Tomato Clown can probably now join the AARP, he has never really been in a large enough tank to get his full size, so he's only about 3 inches long and is probably the biggest fish in the tank except for the goby, but he's only about 4" long, not very girthy. I forgot to mention in the first refugium the water from the tank pours through a 100 micron filter pad and a polyfilter which are sitting on top of a filter sock. My poly filter seems to be getting brown fast, although I'm not sure why since the 100 micron pad is on top of that and gets dirty fast. I don't use the undergravel filter as a filter per se, I put it in to prop up the mud, so that when the water flows under the first baffle, it's forced under and through the mud to kind of "filter" it before it comes up and goes over the right baffle. I figured the mangroves might like it. <I do agree> I just don't know where the extra nutrients are coming from (the clams have only been in there for about 2 weeks, so I suspect it'll take them a while to filter through the water). <Yes> Thanks again for your help and for the quick reply. <Will fwd. to James> John <Bob Fenner> Re: Nitrate and hair algae problems 8/21/09 Hi again James, <Ahh, he's marked himself "out". BobF here> <<Back with a vengeance.>> Yes, I am using a protein skimmer (I thought I put it in my original message somewhere, if not I apologize) and although it doesn't get filled up with brown/green water as much as it used to, I still have to dump it out about once a week. <A good interval> <<And very important to keep the neck/reaction chamber free of brown slime buildup, reduces efficiency of the skimmer very much. What brand of skimmer are you using?>> Even though my Tomato Clown can probably now join the AARP, he has never really been in a large enough tank to get his full size, so he's only about 3 inches long and is probably the biggest fish in the tank except for the goby, but he's only about 4" long, not very girthy. I forgot to mention in the first refugium the water from the tank pours through a 100 micron filter pad and a Polyfilter which are sitting on top of a filter sock. My poly filter seems to be getting brown fast, <<Indicating a high organic load. Have you checked phosphate levels in your system? You may have better results using Chemi-Pure Elite which contains a high grade carbon, ferric oxide for phosphate control, and beneficial ion exchange resins.>> although I'm not sure why since the 100 micron pad is on top of that and gets dirty fast. <<Is this pad changed/cleaned weekly?>> I don't use the undergravel filter as a filter per se, I put it in to prop up the mud, so that when the water flows under the first baffle, it's forced under and through the mud to kind of "filter" it before it comes up and goes over the right baffle. I figured the mangroves might like it. <I do agree> I just don't know where the extra nutrients are coming from (the clams have only been in there for about 2 weeks, so I suspect it'll take them a while to filter through the water). <Yes> Thanks again for your help and for the quick reply. <Will fwd. to James> <<John, do read the articles I linked you to previously. James (Salty Dog)>> John <Bob Fenner>