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FAQs on Paravortex, Black Spot, Black "Ich", Turbellarian Worm
Disease 2
Related Articles: Marine Parasitic Disease,
Parasitic Worms, Roundworms,
Related FAQs on Blackspot Disease:
Black Spot Disease 1,
Diagnosis/Symptomology,
Etiology/Prevention, Cures That
Don't Work, Cures That Do Work,
Products/Manufacturers...
& Fish Worm Diseases 1,
Marine Worm Parasites 2, Marine Worm
Parasites 3, & FAQs on Marine Worm Parasites:
Diagnosis/Symptomology,
Etiology/Prevention, Cures That
Don't Work, Cures That Do Work,
Products/Manufacturers...
Flukes/Trematodes,
Tapeworms/Cestodes,
Leeches/Hirudineans, "Other" Worms
and Worm-Like Parasites... & Yellow
Tang Disease,
Parasitic Disease 2, Parasitic Disease
3, Parasitic Marine Tanks,
Parasitic Reef Tanks,
Cryptocaryoniasis, Marine Ich,
Marine Velvet
Disease Biological Cleaners,
Treating Parasitic Disease,
Using Hyposalinity to Treat Parasitic Disease,
Roundworms, Yellow Tangs,
Tang Health/Disease, | 
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Yellow tang, black spot and other fish 4/14/2009
Hello,
I've been reading your FAQs. pages on black spot disease and still
have a couple of questions. I have a 125 gallon FOWLR with a queen
angel a red Coris wrasse and a niger trigger all still in the later
juvenile stages. I also have a 90 gallon reef with a very small
Juvenile imperator angel, a green chromis and a recent addition
yellow tang. ( I did quarantine him without medication for two weeks
before adding).
After a couple of weeks I noticed black spots on the yellow tang and
after observing him for a week with no improvement I pulled him and
the other fish from the reef tank
<Mmm... I don't know re "pulling" all, or even the Tang>
and put them all in quarantine and treated with Coppersafe.
<Might not be treat-able with Copper...>
I noticed no improvement in the tang after a week and ended up
adding carbon, performing a major water change and a fresh water dip
with immediate positive results.
<Ahh! As proscribed>
Is my reef tank now unsafe to return the fish to for several months?
(Any fish?)
<I'd try it and see. See WWM re Paravortex... if "this" is what "it"
is/was, not a great cause for concern>
I seems like my only other option is to add them to my FOWLR system,
which I have add very good luck keeping healthy and disease free.
<Mmm, your universe appears to be a bit too didactic... There are
diseases/health all about you...>
They all seem to be doing well in quarantine. But it is not a good
long term option.
Will they eventually be safe to add to the FOWLR? Or like ick, do I
need to be concerned about future stress related outbreaks of black
spot disease on the tang?
<The small Turbellarian which is what most folks refer to as "black
ich" can become resident...>
I was not planning to mix the angels, even though I have seen it
done countless times successfully and am willing to try. I'm
thinking of adding a divider if I introduce them temporarily to
temper any instinctual aggression. Thank you, any advice you give is
much appreciated!
Mark
<I would not be overly concerned Mark... Look into stocking an
interesting biological cleaner and return these fishes to their
system. Bob Fenner>
Black spot, maybe not 12/26/08
Hi there,
<Hello Dan>
Sorry to be a bother, but I have a confusing
situation over here. I have a 90 gallon reef tank with; yellow tang,
blue tang, two clown fish, anemone, clam, cleaner shrimp, sally
light foot, purple lobster, leather corals, hammer corals, some
polyps, mushrooms and other bits and pieces. As well as about ten,
well established mangroves growing in my sump refugium.
Everything was going quite well until I added a yellow eyed Kole
tang (which I do love) to my reef.
Two weeks later I noticed
black bumps and some color fading appearing on my blue tang. As well
as some lateral line and forehead peeling on my yellow tang. So I
went on the Internet and found your site. I think my blue tang has
the black spot disease,
<Mmm... actually... you would very likely
see this now, concurrently on the Yellow, Zebrasoma flavescens... I
think you may be witnessing
Microsporideans... not really
treatable... and not very debilitating>
but I didn't notice any
info about the spots kind of bumping out a bit,
<Good
description... and likely shiny, kind of shaped like cones...
whereas Paravortex is dull, flat...>
and one day he was fine and
the next he has 20 spots on him. So I am guessing I need to
quarantine him, but what about the Kole (who is fine except for only
eating off the rocks so far) and yellow tang?
<Again... or for
emphasis, I would NOT move these fishes... at least as yet...>
I
think I can deal with the yellow tang as it seems as his peeling is
do to poor water quality
<?! What leads you to think this?>
and stress. I am about to do a water change and hook the skimmer
back up (after two years off due to the mangroves).
<I would>
Should I quarantine all of the tangs? can I do them all together?
What product would you recommend?
<No, yes, None>
Could I do
it in my mangrove tank or will the medicine possibly hurt them?
<Depending on what's used, yes>
Sorry again and thank you for
your help. I have never had a sick fish before and was upset to see
him, I do have a good photo if needed and also don't know how to
find this page again.
<Mmm, should be here with your
message/response. Please do send the image along>
Thank you
Dan
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
black spot, maybe not 12/27/08
Hi there again Bob.
<Dan>
I was worried about waiting another
day to treat my fish, so I made a executive decision and went
against your advice to wait to move the three tangs into a
quarantine. I see why you said wait as it does seem to cause a lot
of stress (for the fish and my girlfriend and I) to try to catch
them.
I was only able to catch the infected blue tang, but did
so without disturbing my reef which seemed good as I have seen what
happens when you start moving rocks around. I went to my LFS and
showed them the same photo of the blue tang I sent you,
<I still
haven't seen this image>
and he told me to quarantine all three
and to treat the fish with aquarium
Munster proto Marin
Intensiv,
<What are the ingredients here?>
which I did do. I
was reading the instructions and noticed that it said nothing of
treating black spot or Microsporideans. I know I should have waited
until you saw the photos but he seemed to be getting worse and I
wanted to get him treated as soon as possible. I have the feeling I
am not treating him with the right medication. What should I do now?
<...>
I know you will have probably answered all my questions in
my second email but just in case, should I keep treating him with
the proto Marin, and if not than what?
>... nothing<
should I
catch and quarantine the other tangs?
<... already answered>
What about the other fish?
<... How would I, anyone be able to
determine what is actually going on here?>
I have been reading
about dips - would you recommend doing this? and should I keep my
fish quarantined for 4-6 weeks? also I have a Marineland hot magnum
that came with cloth like filter like those in vacuums, would this
work for my hospital tank? or if not could I fill it up and run it
with the sponge filters? Sorry for going ahead as I have read some
of your articles where people did the same thing and they seemed
annoying. Also sorry for two emails at once, I just wanted to keep
you posted and if you thought the blue tang would be better off back
in the reef tank, another day would not have gone by.
Thanks so
much for all your help. I appreciate it.
Dan.
<... Please,
see, read on WWM re Acanthurid Health, Protozoans, Infested
Systems... B>
black spot, maybe not 12/27/08
Hi Bob
Thank you for getting back to me so fast.
What lead me
to believe that the yellow tangs peeling is do to poor water quality
is that, It had happened to him before and when I started trying to
improve my water quality it went away. He may have started peeling
before I
introduced the Kole tang, and I have noticed that a lot
of the yellow tangs in LFS do have the same problems. I guess I
diagnosed him with the head and lateral line disease. I did have a
few mangroves slowly die in my sump a few months back when on
vacation, and when I questioned the guy at the LFS about his peeling
he guessed that my nitrites were high, which they were, and said it
generally happens when water quality is low and they are stressed.
Do you think thou I could be wrong and my yellow tangs problem could
be related to the blue tangs black spots?
<Mmm, indirectly,
yes... the pitting is very likely mostly due to "poor water
quality"... is a type/form of HLLE...>
I should mention that all
of my fish are acting normal and are as hungry as ever, thou I have
noticed the blue tang rubbing a bit on the live rock. I couldn't
find any information on Microsporideans. Will my other fish be
affected if I do not quarantine the blue tang? I read some where to
remove activated carbon, I run Chemi-pure in a hang on filter should
I switch it off or change products?
<... I would keep using the
Chemi-pure>
As for the blue tangs bumps, on the blue part of his
body there are bumps with a black spot in the middle and around the
spot on the rising sides of the bump seems to be whitish. However on
his black markings he seems to only have one or two white spots, and
on his fins and tail just black dots no bumps. Does this sound like
Microsporideans?
<Could be... but... net cause/s?>
Is there
anything I should do? Hopefully the photos are usable and helpful.
Thank you very much for your time
Dan
<Keep reading. BobF> |   |
Re: black spot maybe not... Reading? Definitely not 1/4/08
Hi bob
<...>
You have been so helpful so far. All three of my
tangs are in a quarantine tank now. I don't understand why they
shouldn't be qt?? there are obvious spots all over one tang that
must have come from my new fish, as I have
never had any
problems before. Why is that medicine toxic?
Thanks
Dan
<... Dan, learn to/use the search tool. B> |
Black Itch on Yellow Tang? 8/29/08
G’day Bob,
<AJ>
I’m unsure what's wrong with my Yellow tang. It has a small
cluster of very small black spots on its right side half way down the
body. They don’t seem to bother it and haven’t spread either I’ve
noticed them there for about 2 months he/she doesn’t scratch either. At
the moment it’s in a QT tanks and I’ve treated 2 x with Paracide and 1 x
with Trisulfa tablets + 2 x freshwater dips and the cluster is still
there. What could it be please? The fish eats well and is in no
distress.
Thanks
AJ
<Mmm... is very likely Paravortex... Read
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/paravortexfaqs.htm
and the linked files
above. Easily treated... not very debilitating... Read. Bob Fenner>
Praziquantel and Paravortex -
7/1/08
Morning
crew,
<Good morrow to you>
I suspect my yellow tang may have
developed black ich.
<Developed...>
With its classification as a
Paravortex, a Turbellarian worm, would Praziquantel be a suitable
remedy?
<Mmm, unnecessary but yes...>
I understand that a
freshwater dip is also recommended, but would Praziquantel have better
effects of eradicating the Paravortex life cycle in the tank itself?
Thanks, Brian
<Likely so... though time going by w/o host/s almost
always "does it"... You have read on WWM re? Bob Fenner>
Black Ich Yellow tang 5/30/08
Hello Crew
<Wayne>
I've read a good portion of your FAQs on Black Ich. While I've learned a
lot, I'm still seeking your advice. I don't want to over react. If you
read on about my QT problems, hopefully you'll understand why I'm
hesitant to QT my Tang.
My tank is a 210, with 220 lbs of LR. I have
7 Green Chromis, 2 Firefish, 2 Scarlet Cleaner Shrimps, 5 Peppermint
Shrimp, a few crabs and snails, Frogspawn and green star polyps. The
tank has been up and running for about 3 months now.
<Not long...>
I just added the Tang after 2 weeks in QT (more on this later). He's
been in the display for 1 week. Yesterday I noticed 8-10 black spots
that seem consistent with Black Ich. It's a really subtle infestation at
this point.
<Paravortex is... sublime>
My Water params are good.
Temp is very consistent @ 80, Ammonia, Nitrites are zero, nitrates are
2-5 ppm. I do weekly 20% water changes using RODI water. Salinity is
1.025. Ph is always low...usually 7.9 - 8.0. I'm working on this.
The Tang has just started (yesterday) to use the cleaner shrimps. It's
so neat to watch. Should I be QT'ing this fish?
<Mmm, no. I wouldn't>
Or should I wait it out?
<Yes...>
Maybe some good nutrition, time
to settle in the display, and help from the cleaner shrimps will clear
this mild infestation?
<Yes and this turbellarain is not "that"
debilitating>
I feed a mixture of foods (formula 1 and 2, green and
red seaweed, mysis shrimp, Spirulina brine shrimp/flake food, and a
modified Eric Borneman recipe).
The tang eats all readily. I do plan
on adding a Powder Blue, and Hippo Tang down the road.
<After a few
more months at least>
I'm hesitant to QT this fish as I have a hard
time maintaining good water params in QT. The reason he was only in QT
for 2 weeks, was that I couldn't keep up with water changes. I have a
28gal that I use for QT. I use a sponge filter with sponges that have
been seeded in my sump for more than 6 weeks. I can't keep nitrites
down. I have always had problems keeping up with water changes in QT
tanks. I was doing 15 gal water changes daily, and that wasn't enough.
This is nothing new, I've had other tanks in the past, and have always
had problems keeping Ammonia and Nitrites down.
<Yes. Typical
challenges>
What would you do? FW dip and Qt this fish, or give it a
chance in the display?
<This last>
Also, just want to confirm
that this parasite won't infest my Chromis and Firefish.
<Not likely>
This parasite exclusively feeds on Tangs correct?
<Mmm, no... has
been found on other families>
So without a tang in the display, the
life cycle will be disrupted. Am I correct?
<Yes, usually... but can
take months to die out>
Thanks again for all your help! Don't know
what I'd do without the Crew!
Wayne
<I'd proceed as you are
now... not worry re. Likely the worms will be consumed by the cleaner
shrimp. Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Re: Black Ich Yellow tang 05/30/08
Thanks for your
prompt reply Bob. Just a few questions pertaining to adding the Powder
blue and Hippo Tang. You say not to add them for "a few more months at
least." Should I wait a few months after there are no more spots on my
Yellow tang? Or are you saying to wait a few more months because my tank
is young.
<The latter>
Is the idea to not add any fish until my
tang is completely spot free? I fear he might always have a few spots on
him...and if that's the case, I'll have to QT at one point or another.
Thanks again Bob/Crew!
Wayne
<Welcome my friend. BobF>
Invincible Black Ich??? 12/10/07
Hi Bob,
<Lane>
I
purchased a Powder Brown Tang about 6 weeks ago. I placed the tang
in QT and treated with Cupramine for a week as preventative for ich.
The fish also had a few black spots which I thought might be black
ich.
<Appears to be so>
I hoped the copper would help with
this as well,
<Ah, no. If anything, would hurt the host...>
but it did not appear to do anything. After week one I replaced all
the water in QT and did a FW dip.
<For how long?>
I thought
it may take a few days for the spots to go away, but after several
days of observation the tang appeared to be getting a few more
spots. I did another FW dip this time with Methylene blue. Once
again it did not seem to help. I then decided to try Prazi Pro
treatment. After about one week I still did not see any improvement,
<Wow!>
so I decided to do another FW dip and then try treating
with Rid-Ich (malachite green and formalin) in the QT.
<Yikes>
After several days the spots still remained but the fish appeared to
be getting fin rot and what appeared to be stressed breathing.
<I can imagine>
I decided to do a 100% water change and another
FW dip with Methylene blue. After several days the fish was healing
nicely from the fin rot, but still has the dreaded black spots. I
decided once again to try treating with Prazi again, but this time I
increased the dosage from 2.5 mg/l to around 4 mg/l. It has been a
week and I am still not seeing any signs of improvement.
<Very
strange indeed>
The spots seem a little more pronounced than
before, but the fish does not scratch or seem overly affected. The
fish loves algae and is eating tons.
<Good>
The biggest thing
is the fish has a very pale body (semi-transparent). Is this
something other than black ich?
<Can't tell w/o microscopic
examination>
How can I get rid of this?
<What you've done
should have...>
I really want to save this fish and really want
to get it into my display tank. Your thoughts and suggestions are
greatly appreciated. I have attached a picture for you. Please
disregard the white spots as they are just bubbles. Thanks again.
Lane
<Mmm, a decision (as in nothing is decided until it is
done) needs to be made... whether to try re-doing a treatment
regimen (if it were me, with another source of Praziquantel or other
vermifuge, see WWM) OR just placing the Acanthurus japonicus
directly in your display... in the hope that the (likely) Paravortex
will cycle off in time, not infest other fishes there (not all are
susceptible)... Which will you choose? Bob Fenner>
Re: Invincible Black Ich??? 12/11/07
Bob,
<Lane>
Thank you for the input. Just to answer your question, the
dips were approx. 10 minutes.
<Gosh... these should have "done
it"...>
Anyway, you recommended a different Prazi treatment or
placing the fish in the display tank and hoping for the best. I
don't want to do this as I have a yellow tank
<Tang I'll take
it...>
as well. I would feel much better keep my display free of
issues.
<I see>
What do you think about Jungle Buddies
Parasite Clear. It contains Active ingredients: Praziquantel;
N-[[(N-Chlorophenyl) amino] carbon 1]-2,6-difluorobenzamide;
Metronidazole; Acriflavine - Water ???
<The last as a
carrier/diluent... I do think this product would work as well>
It
sounds reasonable, but I does not say anything about saltwater
Compatibility. Thanks again.
<All the ingredients are fine for
use in seawater... NOT in your main system though. BobF> |
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