Re: Plumbing Questions For New Marine Tank Setup - 4/04/08
Thanks Eric.
<<Most welcome, John>>
I will certainly pick my fishes for reef compatibility.
<<Great!>>
My reference to street 90s was the same point you made (about using turnable ells in the tank in place of strainers).
<<Ah, okay…excellent>>
However, snails, crabs or small fish can still crawl or jump into an ell even if it is just below the surface unless it is screened somehow.
<<Mmm…in my experience (I use these on my tank), the only real problem are the larger snails (e.g. – Astrea spp.)…and then only because they can cause a blockage (I no longer utilize these snails in my system…for this and other reasons)>>
Short of using strainers on my ells do you have any suggestions for keeping critters out of my drains?
<<I never tried it myself, but Anthony once recommended using a bit of the plastic “gutter guard” such as that found at Home Depot/Lowe’s. You cut a small piece, roll it up, and insert it in to the ell (the material will “spring open” to hold itself in place). It will take a little experimentation to figure out just how “dense” to make the roll for the best effect, but according to Anthony, the material inhibits water flow very little if any, but will keep your critters from making the trip down the drain. Only real problem I see with this is that you will need to make checking/cleaning of the ell a regular maintenance task>>
As a follow up question, I had not intended to "throttle" the OR6500 with a gate valve, but simply to union and ball-valve the pump to allow for disconnecting. Rather, I drilled two 1.5 overflows in the DT to ensure I could run the OR6500 full-out.
<<I see…and I understand this will not likely be necessary with this pump. But if you should ever change pumps or go with a bigger pump…………>>
However, I am now concerned about the OR6500 outpacing the flow through the baffles.
<<Ah yes…and a valid concern I think. I remember once having to actually drill a 1 ¾” hole in the baffle on a pump chamber in order to keep up with the flow of a large pump>>
I have already siliconed them in place but if I run into rate problems I will rip them out and weather strip them! Someone should create a baffle flow spacing calculator!
<<Hmm, yes…though I find many of these so-called “calculators” to be faulty/misleading at best. Better to use real-life findings/test results in my opinion. Using the pressure-lock baffles one could probably do these tests quite easily…though the possibilities/variations in configuration (width of vessel, depth of vessel, height of baffle, number of baffles, etc., etc.) could/would make it quite the project. Although even just a “few” assays might provide some useful benchmarks for folks to start from>>
Thanks, all the best.
John
<<Cheers Mate, EricR>>

R2: Plumbing Questions For New Marine Tank Setup - 4/04/08
Thanks again, and slainte!
<<Always welcome. Slainte Mhor! EricR>>

Plumbing With “Shared” Pipe – 04/03/08
Hi Bob, how are you today?
<<EricR here today… Bob is off diving in Borneo…between sessions of sharing cans of Tiger Beer [grin]>>
I have been looking and reading but cannot find a real answer to my question.
<<Oh?>>
My question is in regards to plumbing.
<<Okay>>
My tank has dual overflows each with a 1.5 inch bulkhead. One overflow is directed to a sump housing a skimmer. The other overflow is directed to a separate sump with a refugium. Each sump holds approximately 30 gallons.
<<Are these vessels connected? Ideally, the refugium would gravity-drain in to the pump-chamber of the sump>>
I am planning on using two Pan World 100PX external pumps for my returns.
<<Okay…at just under 800gph these should be fine after headloss. And I do very much like the idea of having/employing a redundant pump, should one fail>>
The pumps have a 0.75-inch inlet and a 0.75-inch outlet. I want to connect the sumps using 1-inch bulkheads and 1-inch PVC pipe.
<<Mmm, you need to match the size of the drain bulkheads at the least…so 1.5” or larger bulkheads are needed here>>
Would it be ok to use the 1” pipe connecting the sumps as the return line and tee off each pump from it?
<<Oh, I understand now what you are doing…and no…I do not recommend having the two pumps share a single 1” supply line>>
What I would like to do is use separate tees for each pump and then use a reducer just before the pumps intake. Would it be better to use reducing tees to tee off each pump from the 1-inch “connecting” pipe to the 0.75”?
<<See my comments below>>
I am thinking running one pump for each with a 1-inch bulkhead would be fine. This would be pretty much like separate sumps, I think. Seems each pump would still mainly pull from the closer sump. So they would each have their own water supply, basically. Am I seeing things right here? Or do I need 1.5 inch bulkheads in the sumps to do this?
<<Given the problems with trying to “balance” overflow lines for two isolated and separately plumbed vessels on the same display, I understand your wish/reasoning for connecting the two vessels. What you propose might work…if you use at least 1.5” bulkheads and pipe (2” would be better) and position the tees (yes, reducing tees will be fine) for each pump at opposing ends nearest each vessel. Although, I think you will still experience issues with controlling/setting the working water-heights due to the “shared” nature of the plumbing. Adding a second connecting pipe of 1.5” or larger may help with this somewhat…but I truly think your best option would be to position the refugium to gravity-drain to the pump-chamber of the sump, and then plumb “both” pumps from this location, providing each with its own 1” feed line>>
As always, thanks for your time.
Gary
<<Happy to assist, Gary. Please do feel free to write back for clarification or to discuss this further...I can’t say I have a “warm and fuzzy” for what you are proposing here. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Plumbing/PVC Size 12/20/07
Hello,
<Hi Frank. I could help you much more if your tank and sump size were known along with the pump(s) and their gpm that you plan on using. James (Salty Dog)>
Quick question since you all are always a big help. I have two 1" bulkheads and two 3/4" bulkheads. I know your suppose to size up the pvc piping in the tank to 1 1/4 inch for the 1" bulkhead and 1 inch for the 3/4" bulkhead. Is that the same concept for the piping from the bulkhead to the sump........a bit larger? Thanks
Frank

Re: Plumbing/PVC Size 12/21/07
Sorry about that. My Tank is 125 gallons and my sump is 46 gallons.
<That is some help but still no info on pump size. Here goes. I'd recommend at least 1250gph flow rate in your tank. It doesn't all have to come from the returns, powerheads can furnish part of this. Two 1" bulkheads will not be enough to provide 1250gph to the pump, at most, with no restrictions such as elbows, check valves, etc., you can expect a total flow rate of no more than 500gpm through each 1" bulkhead.
Do not quite understand what you are getting at in sizing up the PVC to 1 1/4 for the 1" bulkhead. If you are thinking about a reducing coupling going from 1 1/4 to 1", that isn't going to help too much. Your water flow is limited to what can pass through the 1" bulkhead. As for the pump, do not reduce either the intake or return. Most pumps have enough pressure to produce their rated flow rate minus head loss per foot of tubing used. This link may help you. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/popup.calc_pumphead
James (Salty Dog)>

Plumbing Questions 12/12/07
Thank you always for your help.
<You're welcome, and hello Frank.>
You guys <and gals> have helped me out plenty of times on things. Im in the process of setting up a 125 G AGA tank (72"x18"x22") with the 2 Megaflow Overflows ( each with 1-1" bulkheads and 1-3/4" bulkheads.) I have a 46 G oceanic sump with 2 intakes. I also have 3 Quiet One 3000 (780gph). I realize now that these pumps are way too powerful for the bulkheads to accommodate after reading the other FAQ's. I know I can use one for the return and just dial it back with a gate valve. Here is my question....finally.......Would it be better to have the return go to a pvc y after the gate valve and return to the 2 3/4" bulkheads or a direct return to 1 of the 1" bulkheads and use the other 1" bulkhead and 2 3/4" bulkheads for the intake to sump? If I ended up using the 2 1" bulkheads for the intake can I just use one of the Quiet One 3000's and use a pvc y pipe to draw from the 2 bulkheads or should I buy 2 new Quiet One 1200's (296gph) inline for each
bulkhead?
<No, no, no, read below.>
If I removed the teeth spacing on the MegaFlow to draw in more water, could I actually use a Quiet One 3000 on each of the 1" bulkheads?
<Wouldn't be doing anything like that, this design is proven.>
One last question....on the intakes.......is it better to use pvc piping with elbows and such or using flexible tubing?
<Definitely hose direct from the bulkhead fitting to the sump fitting, each elbow will restrict the flow rate. I'd also put gate valves on the drains just below the bulkheads.>
I would greatly appreciate your advise of this.........I've been debating and 2nd guessing myself on this for a couple of weeks and would like this tank setup for operation before Christmas.
<I do not understand why you have three pumps. Each one inch drain should produce close to 600gph flow rate. With the head loss of the pump, this should work just fine. Go with the design, one pump tied to each 3/4" bulkhead, and the drains plumbed to each of the sump's inlets. As long as no elbows are used in the drains, this system should work fine. Do plumb gate valves to each pump in the event they may have to be throttled back slightly, won't be much.>
Thank you guys so much.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Re: Plumbing Questions 12/14/07
<Hi Frank>
So to summarize.......making sure I understand correctly.....the 2 1" bulkhead drains connected to a gate valve, then direct flexible hosing to sump inlets.
<Yes.>
Should the pumps be connected inline between the gate valve and the direct hosing, or connected to the end of the piping in the sump?
<??, The pumps should be plumbed so the gate valve is on the outlet, then flexible hose to the return bulkheads.>
On the return end.....should the gate valve come before or after the pump?
<As above, after. Never restrict the intake to a pump, won't last long.>
So I need to connect each Quiet One 3000 on each drain piping and return piping.......4 total?
<You're confusing me. The drain hose should go into the sump, then the pumps will pump the water back to the return bulkheads. Four pumps???>
I really only have one outlet in the sump for the return.......there is actually two, but one bypasses the mechanical filtration. Do I still use each of those outlets for the return to the 3/4" bulkheads.........FYI.....the drain pipes are going to be connected to some Durso type of standpipe.....unless you have a better idea..........will that still be good for the gph flow to the sump, or should I do something else or alter this design? Thank you once again. I hope its the last plumbing question for now.
<Frank, is best to get familiar with plumbing/installation now. Do go here and read/learn, then ask questions. Also read linked files above.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/plumbingmarart.htm
One thing I'd like to mention as to bulkhead/pipe sizes. Most manufacturers will rate the flow of their returns at the maximum gph. This is not a real world figure. Example: Most HOB overflows with a one inch bulkhead are rated at 600gph. You might get this flow rate if no hose is attached to the bulkhead, just a straight shot down. Any hose, fitting, etc will create friction and even the length of the drain hose plays a factor in this. In a real world setting, a 600gph overflow connected to a sump with flexible hose, gate valves, etc, may yield 500gph at best.
<<< No, not even..... RMF>>>
 Same goes for pumps, their gph is rated at the head, not after three or four foot of hose is added. Most pump manufacturers will list gph at different head lengths (in feet)> I think I mislead you in the last email in this regard, my apologies. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Re: Plumbing Questions 12/16/07
James (Salty Dog),
<Frank>
I think I know where I was confusing you and thus confusing myself. The reason I was stating 4 pumps was cause I thought there had to be pumps plumbed on the intakes to pull the water from the tank to the sump, then pumps for the return. But after reading your responses; thinking about it, then going to the links you gave me..........I'm guessing that there are no pumps associated with the intake and that the sump is fed from gravity/siphon effect and only 2 pumps would be needed for the returns.
<You got it.>
I guess I will keep the other pump as a spare when one fails. Got one last question I hope. When you first initially turn on the return pumps, there should be water in the sump and in the piping right?
<Definitely.>
I was wondering how do you initiate the siphon when your ready to start it all up?
<Just make sure the water level in the sump is at the desired depth and make sure your overflow box is full of water. The drain should start by itself.>
I guess I will keep the other pump as a spare when one fails. Your awesome. Glad I wrote to you guys before I made would-be mistakes. Take care James.
<Always good to read/learn/ask if unsure. James (Salty Dog)>
Frank

Plumbing Nightmare… (Indeed!) – 12/07/07
Dear Mr. Fenner,
<<Hiya Jerry...EricR with you today...>>
Why is it the more I read on your website, the more money it costs me to fix the errors!! Yes I know shoulda, woulda, coulda!!
<<Ah yes! But think of all the learning experiences/opportunities that have come from it>>
I upgraded my tank 4 months ago and was so excited about the upgrade I didn’t really check the stats on the overflow.
<<Uh-oh...I sense a “Mega” mistake coming>>
Right now I have a 90g reef with a MegaFlow unit,
<<Yes, well...try not to giggle when you say that [grin]>>
1” Drain Pipe and ¾” return, which now seems fairly small.
<<Mmm, yes...and as Tom Hanks stated when the “Wonders” fell apart after a single hit song...”A very common tale.” We are well aware of/often hear about these tanks and their shortcomings re the advertised “Mega” throughputs>>
The drain pipe drops into a sump w/ trickle plate/Poly-Filter, bio-balls replaced with DSB/live rock, no lights.
<<Okay>>
Second chamber holds my AquaC Urchin-Pro and a Rio that pumps into a 20g refugium, from there it returns via a 2400 Mag-Drive, reduced to ¾”.
<<Okay...a couple red flags here. First- Pumping from the wet-dry to the refugium and the pumping from the refugium to the tank is just a plain bad idea... Even if you use valves to balance flow/were to use identical pumps, this “balancing act” just doesn’t work due to variable differences in head pressure/line resistance from the buildup of bio-matter. Sooner or later an imbalance “will occur” likely resulting in water on the floor, damaged equipment, even the possibility of fire or electrocution. You really need to position the wet-dry such that a “gravity” overflow of sufficient size will supply water to the refugium for return to the display. Second- That 1” drain is only going to handle about 300gph. Assuming zero headloss for the moment from the Mag-Drive, that pump is twelve-times more pump than you need! And no doubt these issues have something to do with you writing in...[grin]>>
The problem is a few-fold!!
<<Yes>>
You state in your plumbing article that you should never pump one box to the next, and that it is destined for disaster.
<<Indeed>>
Trust me I have spent countless nights wondering when one pump will go out, and because of one bad pump loss two. (and the constant adjustments!!)
<<Yep...Murphy’s Law “will” catch up to you>>
Also you state that Skimmer and refugium should get raw water,
<<Ideally>>
and flow through the refugium should be handfuls.
<<Hmm...this, in “my” opinion, is variable...and often dependent on the type of refugium methodology employed. But for the most part, yes, a circulation of a couple to few volumes of water per hour will usually suit>>
Here is my plan; since I just bought a new AquaMedic Ozonizer (got a great deal or I would have bought the Sanders) and I am waiting for my ORP controller and new EV120. I figure since I have to make changes anyways, I might as well make them all.
<<Excellent>>
Promise I am getting to the question!!
<<No worries...does help me to have all the info/know the background>>
Since drilling is not an option and a hang on back overflow will not fit, here is my new plan.
<<So, limited to the existing throughputs, eh…you can “make do” re circulation to the sump/refugium…but you will definitely need to provide some supplemental water flow within the tank via powerheads>>
I was thinking of taking the return line and making it into a second overflow, since you say it is better to have two than one.
<<Some redundancy is good, indeed…but this is most often done with these so-called Mega-Flow tanks simply because the supplied throughputs are just too inadequate>>
The 1” dropping into the sump (DSB/Live rock will be removed and put into the refugium with the other), the EV-120 in the fist chamber with raw water and the second chamber will hold both pumps.
<<Let me stop you right here for a moment… “Both pumps?!” Even with utilizing both the 1” and ¾” throughputs as drains, you are still only looking at a maximum “gravity” flow rate of about 450-500 gph… You only need a pump that will supply from 700-900 gph; to allow for head-loss and gradual loss of flow from bio-film buildup in the plumbing. Also, do be sure to plumb a gate-valve “after” the pump to allow you to throttle-back this flow if/as needed>>
Mag 2400 will be piped 1” (or ¾” what do you think is better?)
<<I think a smaller pump “is better”…with no need to exceed the diameter of the pipe beyond that of the pump outlet>>
behind the tank, dropping in by split Loc-lines.
<<You will likely find that only a single return will supply enough “force” with the limited water flow to be useful>>
I figure with 4 elbows and 4’ of upward pump, collective maybe 9’ of headspace. Mag 2400 will now return maybe 1250gph.
<<Maybe so…but still way more than your drains can handle>>
The ¾” will drain into the refugium, so now both skimmer and refugium will get raw water.
<<This is good…and hopefully the refugium then “gravity drains” to the pump chamber of the sump>>
Rio 1400 returns to a ¾” SeaSwirl.
<<Save your money here…you just don’t have the overflow/drain capacity for it>>
Whew!! I was thinking that this addresses all the issues that you have written about.
<<But unless I have grossly misunderstood or something has been misstated, your resolutions are flawed>>
But then I was thinking, will the overflow wall allow enough water in or will it suck dry?
<<The “overflow wall” will not be an issue, the drains will simply not handle this much water volume>>
You say gravity is something you can rely on, so since I am pumping more back in, won’t the overflow box fill just as fast?
<<The box will fill, yes, and overflow… And gravity is indeed the issue here. Because you can pump a certain volume of water through a specified diameter of pipe does not mean that same volume will “gravity drain” through the same diameter…is not the same hydrodynamics. You can not drain the volume of water from this tank that you are indicating without increasing the number or size of the throughputs. Since you say this is not possible, your only option is to reduce the volume of water returned to the tank>>
And if the box is overwhelmed with how much I am pulling out, is there a way to speed up the amount flowing in? Maybe cut bigger and deeper grooves on the top?
<<Again…I think the overflow box is the least of your concerns here>>
Well anyways before I start ripping things out and buying new parts I thought I would run this past you.
<<I’m very glad you did>>
Your views and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Since you started this whole thing anyways!! I would have been perfectly fine sitting in ignorance!!
<<Mmm…not for long…>>
Have an awesome night and if I haven’t said it yet, you guys are the absolute best on the web and anywhere else!!
<<Thank you…a collective effort>>
Thanks,
Jerry
<<Jerry… Please write me back to let me know your thoughts/understanding of what I have stated, along with anything you have already done and the results re (have you run this tank lately?). I do think this matter likely bears further discussion. Regards, Eric Russell>>

Re: Plumbing Nightmare? (Indeed!) ? 12/09/07
Hello Eric!!
<<Hey Jerry>>
Thanks for bringing a laugh!!
<<Oh?>>
When I read your first line there was no giggle, it was straight out laughter!!
<<Ah, yes…but not too “hysterical” I hope>>
Soooo I take it you've come across this before!!
<<All too often>>
Yes, this same plumbing has been working for me for exactly a year; Dec is the 12 month marker.
<<Huh! You’ve been running a Mag24 through a 1” gravity overflow?! I do not doubt your veracity, but I suspect “something” is not as it appears/has not been made clear to me here. There is just no way a 1” gravity drain could handle this volume…>>
The only difference is the tank size, I went from a 70g to a 90g, I know, not much of an upgrade...but it did seem to give my tank some room to breathe!!
<<Indeed…an additional 20g in volume on this size system can be a big help>>
So in theory, the project I was going to take on will do exactly opposite.
<<Opposite?...as in what you expected?>>
I was thinking that turning the 3/4" return into a throughput will be too much drainage and you’re saying the overflow will be overwhelmed by my 2 projected returns...
<<Ah okay, yes…adding/using the ¾” throughput for a drain in conjunction with the 1” throughput will “still not be enough” to handle the flow volume from your proposed return pumps. And let me just add… Even had you the overflows/drains to handle this volume, you would NOT be happy with the resulting noise, etc., associated with this much transient volume processed through a small sump. Much better to keep this to the 300-500 gph your current configuration will handle and supplement water flow in the display in some other manner>>
As for flow in the tank, I do have a Tunze 6060 and Rio Plus 1100 at opposite corners.
<<Oh…excellent!>>
The refugium does have Chaetomorpha, a DSB and Live rock; I also know that Chaetomorpha do like higher flow...soooo
<<This macroalgae will also do well with a couple hundred gallons per hour as well, I assure you. My 55g Chaetomorpha and DSB refugium has been fed by a single ¾” overflow for the past four years. But, if you desire more water movement in the refugium than this you don’t have to increase the water input, necessarily…simply add a small powerhead to the refugium itself>>
I was thinking of getting a bigger refugium and ditching the sump, and call it a day.
<<Mmm, the sump is “handy” for housing those filtering elements you do not want in your refugium (e.g. – protein skimmer).>>
But I just measured and because of the center pillar, I won't be able to angle it in there.
<<Gotta love those manufactured stands too, eh?>>
One last idea Eric, I promise…
<<No worries my friend…we want to make sure we do/get this right>>
You say to gravity feed.
<<From the refugium to the sump? Yes>>
What if I just take the sump and turn both chambers into a refugium. Drill 2- 1.5" bulkheads at the end. Raise the sump up so it will flow over the top of the refugium. Put the skimmer, skimmer pump and the return pump in the last chamber of my second refugium? Now I have water volume and twice the fuge!!
<<Hmm, I would rather see the refugium flow in to the last chamber of the sump…and I would not have the skimmer in the refugium (you will lose much of the beneficial biota to the skimmer by doing this). If this were me/mine… I would house the skimmer in the first chamber of the sump (fed by the 1” drain line) which then flows/overflows to the last chamber which houses the return pump. The refugium (fed by the ¾” drain line) would be slightly elevated and drilled/plumbed through the end panel to allow it to gravity drain in to the pump chamber of the sump. This setup isolates the refugium from biota-removing equipment and allows raw surface water to feed in…and positions the skimmer where it too is fed raw surface water, and, the flow of water “away” from the skimmer helps keep beneficial critters from being “drawn” to it>>
Okay enough thinking from me… My brain is going mayday, mayday!! How would you gravity feed into the refugium?
<<As just outlined…do let me know if you have any questions re>>
Do you have a link or a step by step?!! HELP!!
<<Hmm, I don’t have a graphic just offhand (this is where Bob chimes in about me finishing that plumbing piece [grin]), but do have a look through our plumbing and refugium FAQs…there’s likely something similar in there somewhere (you can start here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium1.htm )>>
Eric I am at the end...Once again the chain reaction effect has me second guessing everything!!
<<Not such a bad idea…considering>>
Also I want to say Thank You for taking the extra time to help me in this endeavor to correct a wrong…
Jerry
<<My pleasure, Jerry…let me know if I can be of further assistance. Eric Russell>>

R2: Plumbing Nightmare? (Indeed!) ? 12/09/07
Thanks Eric,
<<Happy to share Jerry>>
You are da' man!!
<<Say it again!…Say it again!...>>
Your plumbing idea sounds perfect!!
<<Ah good…>>
It does address EVERYTHING I wanted to accomplish!!
<<Excellent…is a simple but effective design>>
Sometimes there is just no replacement for plain out right EXPERIENCE!!
<<Indeed>>
One last question and I promise I will be in the "yes!! I have another project" bliss!
<<Ask away mate!>>
I know you have something in WWM about drilling.
<<Drilling glass, yes…I know I have answered a few Q’s about it before>>
It will be my first, but what better way to learn than on a 20g fuge. If it "blows" it won't be an expensive lesson.
<<Mmm, agreed…much less scary than drilling glass for the first time on an expensive display tank>>
Where would you drill the 2- 1.5" bulkheads? Just below were you want the water line or lower?
<<For maximum strength/safety sake “I” generally recommend the outside of the hole (not the bulkhead, but the actual hole size needed to “fit” the bulkhead) be at least the distance of its diameter from any edge (top, side, etc.). But for this application, I think you can put them where you want the water line to be…as long as you keep at least 1.5” of glass between the edge of the hole and the top and side edges of the tank>>
Is there a formula for this?
<<Nothing “official”…that I am aware>>
Or am I again, over thinking?
<<Nope, these are valid considerations. Other may/will tell you differently…it’s up to you to decide how to proceed>>
Thanks Eric, after this I promise, no more emails. Well at least till this project is over!! [grin]
<<No worries my friend…It is my earnest desire for you to succeed>>
P.S- My LFS sold me the Mag-24, out of box for a discount. Starting to sound like "maybe" it's not a “24.”
<<Hmm…indeed… As already stated…there is no way your 1” overflow could handle a Mag24 (2400gph) pump>>
Regardless this thing is huge!! Is there a way to check, so my flow math is not all askew?
<<If you can…direct the flow in to a container of known volume (5g bucket) and time how long it takes to fill>>
You guys are the best,
<<Aw, shucks!>>
Jerry
<<Be chatting. Eric Russell>>

Marine sys. Pb, stkg... ScottV pls have a look, respond   11/30/07
Hello all,
<Larry>
This is the first time I have written but I have poured over the sites information for the past few months and all I can say is wow! The service that you all provide is greatly needed and appreciated!
I will get right down to it.
I have a 90 gallon (4ft long) aquarium. Undrilled.
My plan is to drill 2 2" holes. One hole close to the back left corner.
<Mmm, but not too close to the corner...>
The other, two thirds of the length from the previous 2" hole. I will drill a 1.5" hole one third the length of the tank from the first drain hole on the left for a return. I will have a sump made that will approximately measure 36"Lx12"Wx12"h. In the first chamber I will have a Tunze 9010 protein skimmer. In the second chamber I will have a refugium filled with live rock and Caulerpa. In the third and final chamber I will have 2 heaters. Externally plumbed will be two return pumps. The one pump will be a sequence reef flow snapper pump ( 1850 g/hr at 4' of head) that will feed the drilled return hole measuring 1.5" in diameter. The second pump will be a sequence reef flow dart pump (rated for 2820 g/hr at 4' of head) to feed a return line that will be plumbed over the back right edge of the tank and connect to a wavy sea wave maker at the right corner of the tank. Would this be enough water circulation for the tank?
<Mmm, should be, yes>
I will also have 90 to 110lbs of live rock.
My tank inhabitant will be an undulated triggerfish and maybe a school of aggressive damsels. I am aware that an undulate trigger needs a species only tank. I was hoping that I could locate a Red Sea male specimen
<Are gorgeous, more peaceful>
at a size of about 2-3" and have him grow up with a school of damsels. I am also aware the undulates get more aggressive and territorial with age so the damsels may not work. Is their any possible tankmate that may work with the undulate at all?
<Perhaps some other Red Sea choices...>
Would you know where I could find a male Red Sea undulate trigger in Western Canada?
<Mmm, have your LFS look for you... are rare in the West period (compared with Europe), but might be able to be ordered, your request put into a system...>
I was just wondering if you could comment on my setup and offer your expertise on areas I may need to improve?
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!
Larry
<Mmm, well, I do wish you had a working drawing/graphic of some sort... I don't exactly follow the third, two-third placement of your through-puts rationale... We have a Crewmember/friend here, ScottV who has interest in a company that does this sort of work. I'm going to ask him to chime in here. Otherwise, I'd like to have you (re) read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
The fourth/pink tray... re Marine Plumbing... Bob Fenner>

Marine sys. Pb, stkg... ScottV pls have a look, respond 11/30/07
Hello all,
<Larry>
This is the first time I have written but I have poured over the sites information for the past few months and all I can say is wow! The service that you all provide is greatly needed and appreciated!
I will get right down to it.
I have a 90 gallon (4ft long) aquarium. Undrilled.
My plan is to drill 2 2" holes. One hole close to the back left corner.
<Mmm, but not too close to the corner...>
The other, two thirds of the length from the previous 2" hole. I will drill a 1.5" hole one third the length of the tank from the first drain hole on the left for a return. I will have a sump made that will approximately measure 36"Lx12"Wx12"h. In the first chamber I will have a Tunze 9010 protein skimmer. In the second chamber I will have a refugium filled with live rock and Caulerpa. In the third and final chamber I will have 2 heaters. Externally plumbed will be two return pumps. The one pump will be a sequence reef flow snapper pump ( 1850 g/hr at 4' of head) that will feed the drilled return hole measuring 1.5" in diameter. The second pump will be a sequence reef flow dart pump (rated for 2820 g/hr at 4' of head) to feed a return line that will be plumbed over the back right edge of the tank and connect to a wavy sea wave maker at the right corner of the tank. Would this be enough water circulation for the tank?
<Mmm, should be, yes>
I will also have 90 to 110lbs of live rock.
My tank inhabitant will be an undulated triggerfish and maybe a school of aggressive damsels. I am aware that an undulate trigger needs a species only tank. I was hoping that I could locate a Red Sea male specimen
<Are gorgeous, more peaceful>
at a size of about 2-3" and have him grow up with a school of damsels. I am also aware the undulates get more aggressive and territorial with age so the damsels may not work. Is their any possible tankmate that may work with the undulate at all?
<Perhaps some other Red Sea choices...>
Would you know where I could find a male Red Sea undulate trigger in Western Canada?
<Mmm, have your LFS look for you... are rare in the West period (compared with Europe), but might be able to be ordered, your request put into a system...>
I was just wondering if you could comment on my setup and offer your expertise on areas I may need to improve?
Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!
Larry
<Mmm, well, I do wish you had a working drawing/graphic of some sort... I don't exactly follow the third, two-third placement of your through-puts rationale... We have a Crewmember/friend here, ScottV who has interest in a company that does this sort of work. I'm going to ask him to chime in here. Otherwise, I'd like to have you (re) read: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
The fourth/pink tray... re Marine Plumbing... Bob Fenner>
<<I would keep the Snapper as the return pump and employ the Dart on a closed loop, both pumps will be too much flow through sump/refugium this size. This will also give you a safety margin with the overflows, both pumps through two 2” bulkheads will definitely be pushing the upper limit. The other thing to watch out for is the return through the 1.5”. You will need to be 1.5-2” from any edge to drill safely, this includes the top. This will put the line in a position to drain a substantial amount of water into your sump in a power outage. As Bob mentioned I have an interest in a company specializing in just this sort of thing. I would recommend checking out our site at http://www.momsfishsupply.com/overflowinstallation.html
for placement and drilling tips. Good luck, Scott V.>><Outstanding. RMF>

Pump question Bob... reading    11/11/07
Hello Bob,
Your site is AWESOME. I'm new to the hobby and am setting up a reef tank (72 gallon Bow) and am curious what size pump to go with... the Mag drive 700 or Mag drive 900. I have a 1 inch return
<Stop~!>
on a tide pool wet/dry (tentatively). Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Regards John
<You've got a bit of reading to do John... Start here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
the third tray down... "Overflows..." what you have currently won't supply either pump model. Enjoy the read. BobF>

New 120 Gallon Setup For A “Pre-Drilled” Newbie – 10/08/07
I'm a long time listener, first time caller.....
<<Welcome>>
I recently acquired a 120-gallon tank with stand and am in the process of plumbing and painting, etc.
<<Neat!>>
This is what I have done so far and I would like some input to see if what I have done is going to fly or crash.
<<Always happy to proffer an opinion...>>
The tank has the typical 1-inch and .75-inch through fittings in the bottom.
<<Mmm, yes...two of each?>>
I have built Durso type standpipes with 1.25-inch PVC in which the bottom of the intake is approx. 4 inches below the overflow (water surface). I ran a calculation on that level and if I have a power outage, the sump will not overflow.
<<Excellent>>
The returns will remain .75-inches and will be piped to both sides and back of the tank resulting in approx. (6) .5-inch outlets with a directional jet opening on each.
<<I see>>
Opposing flow patterns is what I am going for here.
<<Understood... and will require a return pump capable of providing at least 2400gph (1200gph if the two initial returns are pumped separately) AFTER head loss in order to provide enough useful force/flow/volume to each ½” outlet. This is MUCH MORE than the two 1” drains can handle (figure about 600gph combined). Best to configure a “closed-loop” if you wish to use a return manifold with multiple outlets>>
Under the tank, both 1.25 drains lines will remain independent and both drain into the sumps bio box lid.
<<Mmm, if the throughputs are 1” like you stated earlier, then this is your maximum drain/flow capacity>>
My filter and sump are approx. 45-gallons. My return pump is a Little Giant
4-mdx? something rated at 1000 gallons at 6 feet of head pressure. I ran a flow rate computation on all fittings, pipe, etc. and came up with a corrected flow of approx. 750-gallons per hour.
<<The computations are great for planning purposes, but I’m sure you realize you can only get a real value for the flow rate by firing up the pump and timing the fill of a vessel of known volume (e.g. – 5-gal bucket)>>
On the output side of the pump I would like to make a manifold with ball-valves
<<Gate-valves provide much better control/finesse>>
that will divert a part of this return water to a small refugium
<<You can do this (though flow adjustment becomes a constant struggle due to changing flow rates from bio-film buildup, etc.), but it is best to bleed water from a return line to feed unprocessed raw tank water to the refugium which then gravity drains to the sump’s pump chamber to maximize transfer of refugium biota to the tank>>
as well as a UV sterilizer.
<<But for commercial applications, I feel these units are superfluous, with little value versus maintenance/upkeep. Better to invest in/apply ozone via the skimmer...in my opinion>>
And return this water to the display tank through a 1-inch line, "T" it off under the tank and reduce the line to the standard .75-inch fitting that fits the through fitting in the bottom of the tank.
<<Huh!? As in via another pump in the refugium!? Bad idea...>>
The manifold on the pump exit side could also have an auxiliary exit to pump water back to the sump directly if I end up with too forceful a flow at the tank level.
<<I would simply install a gate-valve on the output side of the pump to temper flow if necessary>>
Does this set-up seem to be realistic in terms of performing?
<<Nope...as already stated>>
Any and all suggestions would be appreciated. This is the first pre-drilled tank I have owned so this is new to me, but I have learned everything I know from watching this forum and web site...it has been an eye opener for sure.
Thanks, Chip
<<Chip... Do mull over my responses and get back to me with your questions...as well as more detail re your refugium setup as I think this is a problem (at least as I understand it now). Regards, Eric Russell>>