About to give up; Mbuna stkg., beh., disease f's        4/4/20
Hi there,
<Hello.>
It was suggested that I forward you guys a post I put up on cichlid-forum.com today, in hopes you may offer some advice. Here it is. Thank you.
<Sure.>
Hey guys, new here. Been keeping fish for about 20 years and am so frustrated the last year or so I’m about to abandon ship. I’ll try to give the full story. About a year and a half ago I had a thriving 75 gallon Mbuna setup. Beautiful tank with happy fish. Then, I got the bright idea to upgrade to a 125 gallon and have had problems ever since.
<Oh dear.>
During the move about a year and a half ago, a couple of the fish got stressed obviously but all made it until one came down with what I believed to be columnaris or fin/mouth rot.
<I am glad you've made the connection between stress and disease. What I'd further throw into the mix is social behaviour. Mbuna operate best when overstocked. That's because no one fish can actually secure a territory, and paradoxical as it might seem, the fish are more aggressive when they hold a territory than when they're trying to claim a territory. Net result, overstocking doesn't stop aggression, but it does dial it back. In the wild, the fish live in huge numbers and have the space for weaker fish to be pushed out into less desirable areas where aggression is less. For sure those fish won't be able to breed, but they aren't outright killed. In captivity, the weaker fish can't do that. Anyway, if your fish had been overstocked in 75 gallons, and you switched them to a new, bigger tank, two things would happen. First, all the territories would be disrupted, so they'd all be struggling to claim a patch. Secondly, with more space, it's easier for more aggressive individuals to claim and hold a territory. Their aggression would go up a notch now, because they'd switch from "house hunting" to "actively attracting a mate", and that means they'd be even more aggressive than before. At least, this is how I understand it!>
It quickly spread and I vigorously tried everything to cure my beloved Mbuna. After a long battle and numerous antibiotics and treatments, the majority died and the few remaining were horribly sick and I euthanized them. At that time I took down the entire tank and cleaned everything and drained it completely. It all sat in my garage completely empty in -30 degree weather as I live in Minnesota.
<Well, that should deal with any parasites, but bacteria are well able to go dormant through such cold, especially if dry.>
Now, a year and a half later I just set up the 125 gallon again and performed a fishless cycle using Dr. Tim’s ammonia. Cycled in about a month, and conditions were pristine. Nice hard water, ph around 8.5, no ammonia or nitrites obviously and very low nitrates. Temp is a steady 77 degrees. I introduced 20 Mbunas from <vendor name removed> on Tuesday this week. They all appeared healthy but took cover as expected. None would eat or come out and now it is day 3 and same story. However, upon closer inspection tonight it appears that several of the fish have symptoms of the columnaris or fin rot yet again. Could it be that the crap survived on my rock or tank walls with no water in sub zero temps for over a year?
<Bacteria? Yes. Bacteria are not killed by cold (hence why freezing food delays spoilage, but doesn't stop it). Furthermore, the bacteria involved in Finrot and Columnaris are opportunistic and latent in all aquaria. There's really nothing you can do to stop them getting into the tank. Even a course of antibiotics diminishes them, and allows the fish's immune system to clear them out of the fish's body -- but they will always be present in the aquarium. If nothing else, their spores get into the tank from our hands, from the air, likely even in new water unless we're sterilising buckets and pipes each time we use them.>
I just don’t believe that is possible. I’m so incredibly frustrated that I’m considering just giving up on the hobby. <vendor name removed> will refund my money but that’s not the point. I just don’t get it. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you
<When it comes to this sort of mass death, my gut reaction is to leave the tank running, fallow, for a couple of weeks. This will break the life cycle of many parasites. I'd carry on adding fish food, of course, to give the biological filter something to work on. A bit of fish fillet or a prawn works just as well, decaying away over the days, releasing ammonia for the filter bacteria (nitrifying bacteria) and keeping the good bacteria that start the decay process (ammonification bacteria) happy as well. If you have a tank where plants are suitable, and there are plants in Lake Malawi, these are really helpful too, because they bring in lots of good bacteria on their leaves and roots. They also help balance the tank a bit, removing waste and providing a bit more oxygen. Anyway, either way, let the tank sit for a while. Then sit down and be realistic about things like water chemistry, water quality, and the frequency of water changes. I don't often recommend carbon, but if you've had a mass die-off, the use of carbon (replaced every few days) is one way to remove dissolved organics that might have been toxic, such as paint fumes. Even better are the high-end chemical adsorbents like Purigen. Basically, treat the tank as if it had fish, but do your best to clean it without killing off the good bacteria. Now, after a couple of weeks, think about introducing a few fish. Obviously pick robust species, but the key things with Mbuna are to choose the least aggressive species first, working upwards through the pecking order. Juveniles often (always?) travel better than adults, but the flip side is sexing juveniles can be hard. Finally, and this can be a bit brutal, if you've utterly failed with one group of fish -- perhaps they aren't the right ones for your water chemistry, time/budget, etc. Maybe think if some other type of fish might not be easier. In a big tank, Aulonocara for example might well be a lot easier to keep than the more aggressive Mbuna, or there may be some Haplochromis-type fish that would work even better. Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.>

African Cichlid Fin issues      6/5/19 I have a question for Bob Fenner, after reading through many if the help topics on the website. <He's on his travels right now, but will cc him in case he has any input.> I have a mixed group of African Cichlids, 150gal tank, two Fluval FX6 canister filters. I have about half a dozen fish with a charred, burnt black looked section on their dorsal fin. I don't think it's fin rot exactly? <Black patches that appear out of nowhere are usually ascribed to ammonia burns or similar. Remember, at high pH levels, ammonia is much more toxic than in acidic pH. Something to do with the ratio of ammonium ions to ammonia molecules being different in acid vs. basic conditions. Anyway, the point being that even 'trace' ammonia/ammonium levels that you'd ignore in, say, a soft water community aquarium would be much more lethal in a Mbuna community because of the high pH levels. While we tend to "overcrowd" Mbuna especially to reduce their territoriality, that does mean filtration has to be absolutely top-notch, and there's no point having lots of bacteria if you don't also provide them with plenty of oxygen. I'd also make the point that Rift Valley cichlids are a mixed bunch, and mixing Mbuna with, say, Tanganyikans or Aulonocara invariably causes problems eventually, and it should go without saying you'd not mix any of these Rift Valley cichlids with soft water species like Kribs or Jewel cichlids from West Africa.> All the rest of the fins are in perfect condition. Looking for some help, I can also send photos once in contact with someone. Thank you so much Adam <Hope this helps. Neale.> Re: African Cichlid Fin issues      6/5/19 By mixed, I meant the species, however, all are lake Malawi Haplochromis. I treat my tap water with Seachem Prime, Malawi pH Buffer and Cichlid Lake Salt. Attaching a photo of one of the fish. Hope this helps. <Would still suspect environment, with the possibility of aggression between the fish causing some of the physical damage. Do check the pH and water quality; without these information, we can't really help much. Cheers, Neale.>

African Cichlids wasting away   2/26/19
Folks,
<Hello Mike,>
I am taking care of a tank (180 gallons) that recently has had problems with assorted African Cichlids. The fins on the fish are looking ragged, the fish are lethargic, most hovering over the same spot, have had quite a few losses, now all other fish are not really affected, have Synodontis cats, several Bichirs, some clown loaches, and two Parrots.
<This is not exactly a textbook community, is it? Even if it isn't overstocked -- though "some" Clown Loaches could easily fill 180 gallons on their own -- it's a mix of fish with different needs. Hard to imagine the conditions are ideal for them all, simply because they cannot possibly be.
Clowns need soft to medium hard water with a slightly acidic to neutral pH.
Such conditions would be toxic to Rift Valley cichlids. Furthermore, "African cichlids" covers a lot of different types. West African cichlids like Kribs are happiest in soft water, while Malawian and Tanganyikan species want hard water. Given you have a number of predators (in the form Bichirs) then chances are you're offering meaty foods (please, no live feeder fish!) and that in turn means high levels of nitrate are very likely. Nitrate is very toxic to cichlids, much more so than for most other fish; 20 mg/l can stress then, and 40 mg/l will noticeably increase mortality via things like Hexamita and HLLE/HITH infections.>
No new fish were added. I have tried to treat with Seachem Kanaplex as it appeared to be a bacterial infection which did not help or stop the progression. Due to increased feedings I have had to adjust my water change schedule to every two weeks and I am removing thirty to fifty percent of the water, will email the water parameters upon demand, but have increased the water temperature to 80 just to see if it would help, I am at a loss with this (I am maintaining this tank but not responsible for the feeding and additions). Please help. Thanks, Mike
<Cichlids are very much the miner's canary when it comes to high nitrate, low oxygen, and overstocking. They're exactly the fish you'd expect to see becoming stressed and sick. I can't pin down the exact problem here, certainly not without things like water quality test results (nitrite and nitrate in particular) not to mention water chemistry (general hardness and pH, for a start). But I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the problem is environmental, not a specific pathogen that's sneaked into the tank. A thorough review of stocking, feeding, aeration, filtration and water changes will need to be carried out. I'd be looking to clear out the tank a bit, ensuring it's optimised for one particular set of conditions --
whether softish rainforest type environment or a hard, alkaline Rift Valley setting. I'd then be aiming for the usual zero nitrite and ammonia, and for a cichlid tank especially, nitrate levels below 40 mg/l, and ideally below 20 mg/l. While the classic Metronidazole plus an antibiotic combo is a useful one with cichlids showing vague, but severe, sickness, I'd still only be doing this alongside a complete environmental review. Hope this helps, Neale.>
Re: African Cichlids wasting away   2/27/19
Crew, Thanks for the prompt reply,
<Most welcome.>
will run the water tests, the problem has been that this tank is in the local YMCA and the feeding has been erratic, no live foods only flake and pellets for African Cichlids.
<Flake and pellets safest, so likely not a problem here, though some fresh greens (such as cooked peas and spinach) do help many types of cichlid, including Mbuna.>
Yes they are almost all Lake Malawi Cichlids. The aeration is good, oxygen in the water should not be problem, filtration is performed by two Aquatop 500 with UV canister filters. I can only perform so many water changes
since they are paying and will only authorize so many.
<Understood.>
I am removing 30 to 50 percent of water each time.
<Sounds good.>
The parameters have not been ideal as far as feeding but the pH is set up for African Rift Lake Cichlids especially for Malawi Cichlids.
<Understood. But bear in mind that not all fish will handle such conditions well. Conversely, Rift Valley cichlids won't thrive if the hardness and pH aren't right.>
Will run water tests this weekend while I have access to the tank and let you know.
<Cool.>
pH was at 7.6 with Ammonia and Nitrite at 0,
<pH is far too low for either Malawian or Tanganyikan cichlids -- and just to be clear, mixing them is a really bad idea with one or two exceptions.
You really want to make sure the general hardness is high, and the carbonate hardness is high. The old Rift Valley Salt Mix is a cheap and effective way to provide this:
Per 5 gallons/20 litres, add --
1 teaspoon baking soda (sodium bicarbonate)
1 tablespoon Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate)
1 teaspoon marine salt mix (sodium chloride + trace elements)
Stir into the bucket until all dissolved, and then add to the tank. The baking soda should stabilise the pH around 8, while the Epsom salt helps avoid bloating. The marine salt mix, while optional, is helpful in adding tiny amounts of a few other chemicals that keep cichlids in good shape. You can of course use commercial Rift Valley salt mixes, often called 'cichlid salts' or similar. But the recipe above is good 'n' cheap!>
however the Nitrates have been high in the past but will retest this weekend for updated parameters.
<Anything above 40 mg/l can easily explain unexpected cichlid deaths.>
Originally the crew that put this tank up had this scheduled for maintenance once a month and we reduced it to every three weeks, when that was not enough now we do it every two weeks. Thanks
Mike
<If time/money is an issue, the easiest option is to reduce stocking level.
This will slow down the build-up of chemicals between water changes, making it much more easy to maintain good conditions. Tanks often experience problems after a few years, so if the tank is old, with a lot of muck in the substrate, pipe work and/or filter, and thorough break-down and deep clean can work wonders. Do, of course, think about how you're going to keep the fish and the filter bacteria happy while doing this! Cheers, Neale.>

Adult Male Livingstoni Possible ulcers? Need a Fish Vet    1/3/19
Hello I'm hoping someone can help me and my Adult Male Livingstoni.
His home is my 6ft 110g. It also houses 1 Male OB 2 Female OB 1 Juvenile Banga, 1 Juvenile Lawanda, 1 juvenile Walteri, 1 Juvenile Mylandi Sulfurhead 1 Juvenile Malawi Eye Biter 1 Juvenile Firecrest All the Juveniles are roughly 2 inches and once they are large enough will be moved to my 220g. He is by far the largest cichlid in this tank and has also started allowing a few of the smallest Juveniles "clean" his ulcer/wound.
Which I do have on video and is a site to see.
<Sending 30 MB of files in an email clogs up our system; as we repeatedly do ask, please do crop files to keep them under 1 MB using the online or offline image editors of your choice.>
My parameters are 0,0,15.
<Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, I take it.>
I perform weekly 50% water changes, syphon daily any uneaten food.
Filtration is an FX6 and I also have a UV-C sterilizer and a 900 MaxiJet powerhead. The tank is decorated with petrified wood and an artificial plant, black sand. My town water is awful, from tap it reads PH 8.4,Gh 4, KH 2. I do use Seachem lake Malawi buffer, salt and Trace, otherwise my PH
crashes almost immediately. My GH is 7 Kh 7.
<Assuming the pH is steadily around 8.0 to 8.2, this should be fine.
Personally, I'd be upping the KH a bit.>
I think I covered everything?
<So far!>
So my question is regarding my Livingstoni approximately a month ago, I had to remove him from my 220g. Him and my Venustus decided they couldn't live together anymore. They lip locked once and my Venustus nipped him on his side a bit. Once in the 110g I started treating for his lip which was actually bleeding a bit, he fully recovered in a week but where he got nipped on the side has grown and gotten worse, then better, then worse then almost gone, then what the heck it will not go away.
<Nimbochromis livingstonii, like most Haplochromines, do extremely badly when kept with Mbuna. So that was your first mistake. Sooner or later they're harassed or nipped by Mbuna, and absolutely should not be mixed.>
His fins are perfect, eats great, activity level is normal but these ulcer looking spots. At first I thought oh no Columnaris, etc.. But I'm starting to think it might be viral? Due to the amount of time this has been an issue and NOBODY in any of my tanks, including his tank mates have or had anything similar or wrong, even the juveniles that are cleaning the site have no signs of whatever this is on their mouths. I so wish there was more Fish Vets available, I've talked to an assistant and she told me Melafix and Pimafix but it did nothing.
<Useless products.>
I've tried Kanaplex in water and feeding, I've fed Metroplex.
<Indeed, Metronidazole and a reliable antibiotic would be good choices when treating sickly cichlids.>
I'm now performing water changes every 3 days and I'm ready to either clout the tank or use CopperSafe. I live in Massachusetts, if I could find a vet I'd be more than willing to pay for a house call. He is so big and smart that he sees me go to the cabinet with my nets and immediately starts swimming in a frenzy ready to attack it. So in my mind at least, catching him will only add more stress and most likely injury.
<The video suggests he's being pecked at by other fish. This will prevent any effective healing, and will certainly be adding to his stress.
Isolating, and medicating as per Finrot and probably Hexamita will help.>
Thank you Liz
<Cheers, Neale.>

Pseudotropheus zebra - pH related illness       6/11/17
I have a 55 gallon tank that I set up on 5/26/17 for young Pseudotropheus zebras that I am raising from fry. I have many tanks and have had tanks for nearly 50 years since I was a kid.
<Neat!>
Everything was going great until I did a partial water change.
<Oh?>
I did a partial water change (20 gallons) on Tuesday (6/6/17) and on Wednesday they were stressed out. I am a geologist and work with biologists and engineers. Through a series of tests with meters etc... I figured out that I got a batch of acidic water which was used for the partial water change.
The water that was used had set for 4 days before using, so I did not use any Dechlor. I avoid using Dechlor unless I have to..
<Hypo, Sodium Thiosulfate; olde timey prep. for the simpler time of chlorine-only use as municipal sanitizer. Chloramines are used almost universally in the USA nowayears... Dechlor won't remove/change these. Best to do as you suggest and let water sit or aerate days (or week) ahead of use>
I dumped the water from the buckets on Thursday 6/8/17 and filled them with fresh water. The pH and all other parameters tested well and that water has been used now for 2 partial water changes... ( 10 gallons each)... one on
Wednesday 6/7/17 and one on Friday 6/9/17.
I kept the light on from Wednesday night until this morning at 6:00 AM and turned it back on at 1:30 PM today.
My questions involve my approach from here on out. Some of the fish are eating... about half of them... but not with the normal intensity. The others have no interest in eating. Some are scraping themselves occasionally and a couple have what looks like damage to their slime layer. It is not white fuzz and does not look like ich... but more like bubbles.
<Mmm... am wondering what this is>
I am old school and have a Marineland emperor 400 outside filter and two 550 powerheads with and undergravel filter. The setup is only 15 days old, so the carbon and the media in the filter is pretty new.
I am very concerned about the health of the fish. I have cared for these fish since I harvested from their moms and setup the 55 gallon just for them.
The quality of the aged water I have is back up to par with what it should be and I am preparing to do water changes in my other 7 tanks.
<I would stick with your water S.O.P., but add testing it ahead of actual use... and depending on its composition, add some salts and alkalinity blend (commercial or DIY) ala the "Malawi Mix" detailed by Neale here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/fwh2oquality.htm
What are your recommendations to improve the health of my African cichlids?
<Per the above; addn. of the bicarb., MgSO4, NaCl>
I am planning another partial water change today (10 gallons only) and thinking about replacing the carbon in the emperor 400,,, even though it is only 15 days old. I think that I am going to leave the light on since they seem to do better at this point...
<Mmm; am not such a fan of GAC use in freshwater systems... better to leave "a unit" or more in and transfer out a new one every month or so. Many years back our service companies used a huge number of ChemiPure packets in
this way... in the years of Eheim canister filters and in sumps>
I have various types of medicine, but II fear that removing the good bacteria would be more harmful than the medicine would be helpful....
<Agreed. I would NOT treat the current situation with medicines; particularly antimicrobials. More likely to interrupt nitrification, make matters worse than better>
Thanks for any help that you can give me.
Darrin
<Glad to share and hope this helps. Bob Fenner>

Please help me help my bumble bee       1/14/16 I've purchased my bumble bee cichlid from my avid fish loving brother a couple of months ago. Along with a blood parrot and currently small green terror. Bumblebee had these growths before i brought him home for quite some time, although, nearly half this size. <Apparently some sort of infection of the nares> Not sure on age but he's around 5 inches long. I have been doing water changes accordingly. His health is declining and in his weakened state he's being easily chased into hiding from the blood parrot when in the beginning they all did well together with ample hiding places he seemed completely healthy aside from the unsightly growths. I've noticed today he did not eat. Came out long enough for me to snap this picture. Im worried. Im hoping its not a tumor but with it only seeming to grow i am not sure what else this could possibly be. <Likely some sort of infectious agent, proceeding from environmental stress.... "poor water quality" of some kind/s> His color no longer seems to change mostly remains faint. I thought maybe the growths could fall off but nothing in all this time. in the last week a bump has formed in between the nostrils under the skin. Only looking worse. If there is ANYTHING i can do to save him please please let me know. <Well; if it were mine.... I'd likely euthanize this specimen (see WWM Re)... but if you're willing to try.... I'd subject the entire system to a modicum of "Malawi Salts" (see Neale Monk's works re on WWM); and trying a "Furan" drug (Nitrofuranace my choice) here per SOP statements on WWM. Bob Fenner>

dying fish, generic stmt.s re African Cichlids, no data, rdg.,       11/5/2015
using WWM
Good day
<And you>
Im hoping i get an answer to my question. Okay so i started of with a 3foot fish tank only to realise after 3months its way to small for my African cichlids so decided to go bigger and hooked up a 5 foot fish tank, ever since i did the tank swop i am losing at least 3 fish a week could you please advise me to why this is happening.
<Mmm; very likely to territoriality issues.... "African Cichlids" (Mbuna likely here), don't "get along" well, and have to be either tenuously over-crowded or quite under-crowded.... There are other possibilities... water quality, system issues... even some possibility of pathogenic disease. You offer no data or imagery of any>
Your feed back would be highly appreciated.
<Let's have you read: HERE: http://wetwebmedia.com/AfCichDisDiagF.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>
Thank you.