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FAQs About Goldfish Disease/Health 40

Help... Fancy goldfish... beh./hlth. 8/21/08
Hi, I bought my Son two Fish (Fancy's) last week. One of them have has a long brown stringy something!!! (looks like poo) hanging from its behind, and measures roughly about 3-4cm long. Could you please let me know what it could be, and what I should do, as my Son is very worried.
Thanks Claire
<Claire, what you are seeing is a symptom of constipation. The "strings" are compacted faeces. I'm guessing you are feeding this fish Goldfish flake. Contrary to what you might imagine, this isn't a good diet for them. They need lots of green foods; please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
Short term there's nothing to worry about, but long term constipation makes Goldfish much more prone to serious diseases and problems. Do also make sure you understand what Goldfish need to thrive. Too many people buy them without researching their needs, and consequently a miserably high proportion either die or have grim, short lives. Say "no" to bowls and small tanks, and "yes" to big tanks, green foods, and good water quality! See here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Blisters on Oranda... env., no reading 8/20/08
Hello,
I was wondering about these weird clear blisters on my Oranda's fins. One of them in particular will pop then reform later over the same spot which is now looking a bit raw and sore. He seems in good spirits, but I know if this were me I would be a bit pissy and cranky! I've asked several people at local fish shops and always seem to get different answers, with each of them selling me a new medication. Grrrrrrrrr. I'm afraid my fish will perish just from over medication!
<Very likely so>
I'm in the process of getting a larger tank for him, but need to find one to fit an odd spot, so in the mean time I'm doing water changes about twice weekly. He is in a 6 gallon tank,
<... this is almost assuredly the source of the trouble>
I treat for chlorine and add salt occasionally
<... see WWM re>
after my larger water changes. The tank has filtration and I change the carbon filter approx once weekly. I'm sure I feed too much but he always eats it all (I feed Hikari floating Oranda pellets). I've been told that it is parasites (but it's not), fin rot (not that either), and too much ammonia (even though my new meter and stick tests say that I'm keeping the ammonia in check!). HELP! I have grown quite attached to my finny friend after 5 years. His name is Beauregard and he is approx 5-6in long (he won't hold still long enough for a good pic of his blisters or to be measured!!) I know he's a boy from the white thingy's (love the lingo!) on his cheeks and he also has them on the tops of his front fins.
Thank You,
Keri
<... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the linked files above. You're killing this animal. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish sitting on bottom of tank 08/18/2008
Hi Crew,
I love your site! It has so much helpful information, but I just can't seem to find the answer to this particular question. First, I'll tell you about my tank set-up. I have a fantail, Ginger, and a calico goldfish, Bubbles, living in a 10 gallon tank. (Small, I know.) Both fish are currently about 2 inches in length. Ammonia and nitrites are 0, and nitrates are 10-20. I do a 20% water change and filter the gravel once a week. The tank is due for another water change tomorrow. For the past week, Bubbles has been spending a lot of time sitting on the bottom of the tank with clamped fins. When he does swim around, his fins are still clamped. He comes up to eat when I feed him, and his physical appearance seems normal besides the clamped fins. Through all this, Ginger still seems normal and perfectly healthy. This strange behavior has happened to a few of the past fish I've had. All those fish ended up eventually not being able to leave the gravel. They'd lay on their sides on the ground and after a few days would die. I just can't figure out what's wrong. I don't want Bubbles to end up with the same fate! Please help me! Thanks so much for your time.
Sincerely,
Annemarie
<Hello Annemarie. In a nutshell, the problem here is very likely environmental. Let's be crystal clear about the environment first: you cannot keep Goldfish in a 10 gallon tank. Period. End of discussion. They will keep getting sicker and sicker, and sooner or later something will go wrong. Putting Goldfish in too-small tanks (or God forbid, bowls) happens so often it is scary to anyone with any interest in animal welfare. Goldfish are pond fish really, and in tanks you have to make allowances for the fact that they get to at least 20 cm/8" in the case of fancy Goldfish and over 30 cm/12" for traditional Goldfish. We recommend keeping them in tanks around the 125 litre/30 gallon size at minimum; anything less is like trying to keep a German Shepherd dog in a rabbit hutch. Small tanks fail to dilute the ammonia the fish produce, so that your poor Goldfish is choking on its own filth. It can't exercise either, because there isn't space. Goldfish also need a filter. Being big fish, I'd recommend nothing less than a filter offering 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour (i.e., if you have a 30 gallon tank, you'd use a filter rated at 180 gallons per hour). It's almost certain to me you aren't doing these things because fish after fish is dying in the same way. Please please please review what animals need *before* you buy them -- not doing so is animal cruelty, and I'm sure you love animals and wouldn't want to be accused of that. So, go read this first:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Once you've digested all that, feel free to get back to me with specific comments or questions about how you can improve your Goldfish tank. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: goldfish sitting on bottom of tank, More Frank Herbert ref.s 8/20/08
Hi Neale,
<Hello,>
Thanks so much for all your advice. Unfortunately, I think it's too late.
<Oh?>
Since last night, Bubbles has been hiding in an arch decoration in the tank. He won't even come out to eat.
<Far from too late... Don't give up yet. "Don't believe a man is dead until you see his body, and even then you can be wrong" -- Bene Gesserit lesson.><<Muad dib!>>
I checked the water levels again, and ammonia and nitrite are both still 0, and nitrate is 10-20. I'm planning on doing a water change and suctioning the gravel today. In my last email I
forgot to tell you that the tank does have a 100 mpg filter.
<100 miles per gallon? Do you mean gallons per hour? Given that Goldfish need at least 30 gallons, implying a minimum 30 x 6 = 180 gallons per hour filter, that's far too small a filter for any viable Goldfish system.>
I read the page you recommended. It had a lot of useful information I didn't know about before.
<Cool.>
I'm feeding Ginger mostly spinach now instead of flakes.
<Until the tank is upgraded to 30 gallons, this is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I can't stress this point enough. Make space, set aside the money. Your fish will thank you, they will be happier, and you will earn much good Karma.>
She still seems to be in perfect condition.
<So far.>
I actually got Ginger quite a while before Bubbles.
<How much of a "while"? Goldfish lifespan is 20-30 years under good conditions. So unless Ginger is 20+ years older than Bubbles, time has NOTHING to do with this.>
If it was an environmental problem that affected Bubbles, I am wondering why Ginger isn't sick too if she's been in this tank under the same conditions longer than Bubbles.
<Absolutely typical. All animals, all people, all plants are genetically different. They react at different rates to similar stresses. I bet you get worse hangovers than some people, but less bad than others. Or maybe you feel the cold more than some people. Or whatever. The thing with environmental issues is that everything "seems" fine, but as sure as God made little green apples, one fish gets sick, then the next, and so on.>
Thanks again for all your time and everything else you do.
<Very kind.>
Sincerely,
Annemarie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: goldfish sitting on bottom of tank 8/21/08
Hi Neale,
<Annemarie,>
Very sadly, Bubbles passed away last night.
<I'm sorry to hear that.>
I'm going to try my best to keep Ginger happy and healthy. Thanks for all your great advice. I'm sure it will come in handy.
<Indeed it will.>
Sincerely,
Annemarie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: goldfish sitting on bottom of tank 8/22/08
Hi Neale,
<Good morning,>
I'm sorry to bother you again, but today Ginger started sitting on the bottom of the tank too. On the page you recommended me to read, I noticed it said that the temperature for goldfish should be around 59-64 degrees.
<Correct. In the wild these are warm temperate/subtropical fish.>
The temperature in my tank is about 77 degrees.
<Definitely on the warm side, but not lethal in the short term. Increasing water circulation or adding an airstone may help, and do take care to place the tank way from direct sunlight.>
Could the warm temperature of the tank, along with its small size, also be affecting Ginger?
<Small tanks change temperature faster than big ones, so even though 77F is unlikely to kill Goldfish if they're exposed to it gradually, if the temperature in your home is cooler by night and then gets really hot in the daytime, that could VERY easily be a stress factor. Even more critically, warm water contains less oxygen that cold water. Since the rate at which oxygen gets into the tank is determined by the surface area of the aquarium, the bigger the tank, the faster oxygen gets in. The reason Goldfish "gasp" at the surface in bowls and small tanks is that they are suffocating, and their gills cannot get enough oxygen from the water. So they breath water at the air/water interface where there is the most oxygen. As we have discussed, Goldfish are just not suitable for small tanks or bowls. If you think about it, these are fish that get to the size of trout, and are much bigger than, say, Angelfish. They are about the same size and mass as an Oscar. And yet while nobody would put an Oscar in a bowl or 10 gallon tank, people try to do this all the time with Goldfish. And you know what happens? They have problems keeping their Goldfish healthy. It's really as simple as this.>
I put new gravel in the tank about a week ago, too. Even though I rinsed it thoroughly, is it possible that something could still be in the gravel that
could be another factor?
<Not if you cleaned it properly. If you used detergent, that could cause irritation to the fish if not rinsed out properly. But gravel sold for fish tanks should be perfectly safe. The worst that can happen is you don't rinse away the silt, and that makes the water cloudy. But the fish themselves couldn't care less, and many species come from silty waters anyway and prefer the gloom!>
Thanks so much again for all your help and time!
Sincerely,
Annemarie
<Cheers, Neale.>

Need help with a bubble eye 8/18/08
Hello, we have had this bubble eye about 3 years. It is about 5" long and quite round. Yesterday we got up and look into the tank and one of it's eye sacs had a white patch on it. Today the same area on the eye sac has gone black. Help...we do not want to lose the fish, it's one of our favourites. We do not have any aggressive fish with the bubble eye, only wide bodies like astral eyes.
Need your help
<Colouration in the eyes of these and other bulbous-eyed goldfish are subject to such changes... from physical trauma and repair mostly. I would take a cursory look about in this tank, remove any sharp objects, perhaps spiff up water quality by moving up your water changing, gravel vacuuming procedure schedule... add some activated carbon to the flow path... And otherwise just be patient. No "medication" will help here. Bob Fenner>

Goldfish Question, hlth. 8/8/08
Hi Crew!
I have a question about one of my goldfish. It is a red/white Ryukin and I had it for about a year now. This morning I noticed a white colored bump above his eye. It definitely is not ich because it is bigger than the ich dots. But it is still white and milky in color. The bump kind of looks like a mini pimple. The fish however doesn't react to it at all. It is still a pig when it comes to eating and swims around actively. Is this a problem? If so, how can I treat it? Thank you, Pierre
<Not "enough" of a problem to actually "treat". This may indeed be akin to a pimple (a clogged structure... a neuromast), and will solve itself with just time going by, your good care. Do keep up good water quality, nutrition, and all should be fine. Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish Question
Dear Bob Fenner,
<Pierre>
Thanks. The pimple-like bump increased in size today. It sort of bloomed out almost like a flower like its falling out of my goldfish's head.
<Ah, yes... have witnessed this many times>
There was some slimy stuff connected to it but it fell off when my goldfish swam around. He is still eating, swimming, and interacting normally with my other goldfish and two snails. I did add some more aquarium salt to the water just in case. Will it eventually fall out of its head because it looks less rounded and bigger now. Thanks! Pierre
<This area may well leave a pit, but in cases of good care, high water quality and good nutrition, often grows over in time (months). Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish Question
Dear Bob,
Thanks for your help! The white thing fell off a few minutes ago and the goldfish is fine. Pierre
<Ah, right on time. BobF>

Goldfish hunched over to one side 8/7/08
Hello. I have had 5 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank for almost 4 years now.
<Too small... whatever the specific problem at the moment, the ultimate cause is a tank that is too small. Five Goldfish that are 4 years old will be a fair size, and would need a tank upwards of 180 litres/40 gallons. They'd also need a filter providing not less than 6 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. Unless you can provide these things, any discussion of what's the matter with them at the moment is academic.>
Last week, I noticed one of them was having trouble swimming. It would spin around, like upside down, when it tried to swim. Then eventually it would give up and lay at the bottom of tank hunched over to one side, like a horse shoe. I then read your site and got some info from other people's questions and answers. So, I changed 50% of the tank's water, I then moved the goldfish from the tank to a separate bowl, using some of the water from the tank.
<Bowls = Death for Goldfish, so moving this fish out of the (bad) tank into the (even worse) bowl surely won't help.>
I then cooked, shelled, and cut up a pea to feed it. It ate some of the pea. Then a day later it died.
<Not at all surprised. Goldfish are fish, and require everything other fish need... filtration, swimming space, etc. That you see them in bowls on TV doesn't mean they can live in them. The vast majority of Goldfish put in bowls die within weeks, and the rest have a lingering, grim existence for a few months or years. Given Goldfish can live 30+ years and reach lengths of 40-60 cm, there's no excuse.>
After about 2 days of that goldfish dying, another goldfish has started doing the same thing.
<As will they all until given a decent habitat.>
It is hunched over to one side, having trouble swimming, etc.
<Have you checked the water quality? What's the nitrite level? How are you ensuring that pH remains stable? Goldfish prefer hard, alkaline water and won't do well in soft water.>
Its color is still bright orange, no spots on it, scales look fine, so overall outer appearance looks good to me. Today, I have moved that goldfish to its own separate bowl too.
<And another one bites the dust before too long... Please concentrate on fixing the tank rather than moving fish about.>
I'm confused on what's happening to my goldfish. I don't want anymore to die.
<So upgrade the tank. End of discussion. Unless you give them a bigger tank with a bigger filter, anything else is a waste of time, yours and mine.>
So far the other 3 look fine and are acting fine.
<Not for long...>
Can you tell me what is going on here???
<Have done. Also see here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm
>
Thanks. Tamra
<good luck, Neale.>

Re: looking for goldfish specialist 8/3/08
Hi Bob,
I was wondering if either you or your team had received this mail, maybe you are all on holiday.
I do look forward to your response, you have been very helpful with other issues in the past.
Thanks & Kind regards
Jeanette
<Thought I'd seen this responded to, but don't find on WWM...>
Hello WWM,
I have a three year old fantail called Hercules (as we thought she was a boy at the time) which has a SBD since 5 months or so.
This big girl either hangs around the surface gulping air/bubbles or hangs just underneath the water line OR head down just floating about all day. She finds it hard to get to the bottom & stay there.
<A too-common condition... a matter mostly of genetics and diet...>
At feeding time she is swimming around like crazy. She currently lives in a 190 litre tank with her son/daughter called bidule junior which is 14mths old & in perfect condition.
Father was put to sleep with clove oil (if you need details of this pls let me know)
Anyway, I have treated this case with nifurpirinol several times, salt baths several times, Praziquantel three times as I thought it was skin/gill flukes.
<Mmm, no... highly doubtful...>
Let's see what else mmm; a bit of tetracycline laced in food & Epson salts.
I have just finished another course of nifurpirnol (4 days in water) now she is floating half way with head down. No change!
Physical status: long thin split in caudal fin around 4cm depth, she has red streaks also in her caudal fins (I think this is due to bad nitrites in the past my ignorance of course) There are about 4/5 scales missing on one side which are slowly growing back. Her belly is bigger on one side than the other this is the side where the scales are missing (eggs perhaps)
POO analysis: Either floaty with bubbles (constipation?) or long white transparent casing with Zig Zag thing inside (re-absorbed eggs?) or chunks which sink.
Diet: peas every morning & evening either frozen spinach, salad plus the plants which live in the tank; 2/3 times a week as treats, they have pre-soaked
> > protein
> > foods or frozen worms.
> > At the moment it is just peas peas peas!
> > Otherwise she is really lovely, needs lots of cuddles & has a very hearty
> > appetite.
> > Water parameters:
> > ph 7.6 Half bottled mineral water and half dechlorinated tap water.
> > No2 0
> > No3 10
> > Nh3 0
> > °C 26 -30 very hot over here at the mo
> > GH 8
> > KH 6
> > Water change 80L per week, gravel clean twice a week, 2 airstones, 2026
> > Eheim I have just received through the post SeaChem's Metronidazole & I was
> thinking about using this in food once a day for three days only. What are your
> > thoughts on this? Also I have bought Esha 2000 along with Exit - I do not know if this will be any good.
<Again, doubtful>
To be quiet honest I do not know what else to do, it is becoming
> > extremely frustrating & upsetting to see her like this.
> > Could be internal columnaris along with eggs which may have been
> > contaminated? humm
<No...>
> > >>>It<<<
> > could be a thousand things and I am not hitting the nail on the head!!
> > Please Please help me with the next course of action to take concerning
> > medication and your analysis of what the disease could be.
> > If you need some photos I would be more than happy to send you them.
> > I look so much forward to your reply & thank you so much for your concern &
> > time.
JB
<Have given up trying to correct your mis-formatting here. Please read: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm
and the linked files above. BobF>

Attn: Bob Fenner Re: Re: Looking for goldfish specialiste! 8/5/08
Hello Bob,
<Jeanette>
Firstly, sorry for the bad format from my e-mail. The e-mail I sent you bounced back so I bounced it back a second time; hence the bad format.
<Ahh! I too figured as much>
I've been pondering over this e-mail I sent you 4 days ago & the response I received.
I have looked a thousand times over all the pages concerning goldfish on WWM even all the faqs which is/are very exhausting & I appreciate this loads. I have looked also at other internet sites French/English/American. One says this & one says that!
<Yes... much dissonance on the Net>
I know the basics concerning diet & genetics; it is not their diet which is bothering me, it could be the latter, bien sur, if so, does this force goldfish to gulp air all day long "piping" as it were which is causing her to bloat & float or do you think it could be something else?
Thanks Jeanette
<I honestly (really) don't know my friend... and am not aware of the term "piping"... I do concur with your previous email re the possible efficacy of using Epsom (nee Epson) salt... and the continuation of an all vegetable diet. Otherwise, the common troubles of genetic endowment are very likely at play here. Your comprehension of English is very good... am hoping this is comprehended. BobF>

Oranda swollen abdomen one side, no pineconing... env. 8/2/08
Hello,
<Howdy>
I was reading through your webpage and found it very specific and helpful. I have an Oranda which I inherited from a friend. I do not know how old she (he?) is. I had her and a Ryukin which I also inherited from the same friend in a 10 Gallon tank.
<Oooh, much too small a world for these>
After I read some goldfish literature on the internet I moved them over to a 20 Gallon tank (a month and a half ago) taking all the usual (keep some of the old water etc.) precautions.
<Still too small...>
I do a 25% water change every week and have a carbon filter, a biofilter and an air bubbler.
<Good>
Three days ago I noticed that my Oranda (around 3 inches along with tail) has a swelling on the left side of her abdomen (swelling radius around 0.5 cm). There is no pineconing. She is active, swims around and plays with her tankmate, and comes to the top and asks for food whenever I go near her tank. Her swimming is slower than usual but she seems to manage fine. I thought it might be constipation or swim bladder and starved her for one day and have been giving her frozen and thawed peas ever since. She eats them but the swelling is not going away. This is the first time I am keeping fish and I am really at a loss as to what to do. Someone told me to add melafix
<No... worse than worthless... Your root problem is likely "metabolite build-up"... an accumulation of wastes in this too small volume... and this "tea" "product"... may well make this all much worse. Do some water changes daily to remove, return this sham material and demand your money back>
to the water which I also did. Please help.
Thank you,
Meenakshi
Pennsylvania, USA
<Again... there is little doubt in my mind that this situation is directly resultant from improper environment... in effect these fish living in their own filth... the system being just too few gallons. Fix their world... Bob Fenner>

Re: Oranda swollen abdomen one side, no pineconing 8/3/08
Thanks for the quick reply Bob. I'll try your advice and hope the fish gets better. Thanks again.
<Welcome, good and welcome! BobF>

Re: Oranda swollen abdomen one side, no pineconing... goldfish sys. 8/4/08
I am sorry to bother you again Bob. I went to the pet store and asked them for the right sized aquarium for my fish and they said 10 gallons should be fine!
<... no my friend. This is incorrect. Take a look in reference works, worthy goldfish sites (e.g. Goldfish Connection)>
I read up on the internet and people say everything from 1 gallon per inch
<... dismal>
of fish to 30 gallons per fish. Can you please help me with picking a tank of the right size? My Oranda is around 3 inches long and the Ryukin is around 4 inches long.
Also, I did the daily water changes and the swelling does seem to be going down.
<Ah, good>
Thank you,
Meenakshi
<Were they mine, I'd have no less than a forty gallon system... I myself have four goldfish of about this size in a ninety. BobF>

Re: Oranda swollen abdomen one side, no pineconing – 09/08/08
Dear Bob,
<Meenakshi>
I wrote to you about my Oranda with a swollen left side around one month ago and you advised me to change to a larger aquarium (I had a Ryukin and an Oranda, both ~ 4 inches long in a 20 Gallon aquarium). I followed your advice. I fed her (him?) blanched peas and did partial water changes everyday.
<Good>
When nothing worked, I separated my Oranda and put her in a separate tank and continued the partial water changes and am also adding Epsom salt to the water. She still has the swelling, is eating fine and the swelling seems to grow on some days and diminish on others. I think her scales from over the swelling have fallen off (a few of them) and a reddish small wound is visible. She is swimming fine and is enthusiastic about food. Will she ever be ok?
<Only time can/will tell my friend>
Is she in pain? What should I do?
<Not much, and I would not vary from your present course, practices...>
It has been over one month and the poor thing is just not getting any better. Please help.
Thank you,
Meenakshi
<These conditions often do take months... I urge patience here. Bob Fenner>

Please Help Dying Goldfish 7/29/08
I have a 55G goldfish tank. Well it is intended to be for goldfish but I can't keep one alive. The tank has been up and running for five months now. The ammonia and nitrites are 0ppm. The nitrates are high at 60ppm and the ph is high at 7.2ppm. The temperature is 72'F. I have added one goldfish at a time over the course of the last few months and they acclimate well, eat for a couple of days then gradually become lethargic and die, all within the span of a week.
<Something very amiss here...>
The LFS says the high PH is killing them, is this possible, that 10 goldfish could be so sensitive to this PH level?
<Not likely at all>
I also have an ACF
<For browsers, this acronym is for African Clawed Frog, Xenopus...>
and a couple of ghost shrimp that are thriving, eating, and playing.
<An important clue>
So why would this PH kill a fish but not them?
<It would not>
My boss has given me an ultimatum and has decided that the frog is somehow killing the fish, excretions through his skin,
<Mmm... in this size/volume... shouldn't be such an issue>
we really don't know but isn't it acceptable for an ACF and a goldfish to live together,
<Can be done, but...>
barring size issues as one would probably eat the other if the opportunity arose?
<Oh yes>
We are just about to hang up our fish keeping habit as the patients that come into the office get very attached to the fish and I have to lie and tell them we returned the fish to the store. Finally if the PH is the underlying cause, is there anything I can do to non chemically adjust the water,
<Mmm, you could... but I would not>
I hate adding chemicals and it seems like adding one always leads to adding another?
Thanks so much in advance
<Twere it me, mine, I'd remove the ACF, clean the tank out cursorily (drain, vacuum the gravel, re-fill) and try some goldfish from another source... A very likely source of trouble/mortality is simply the weakened condition of most all goldfish at the retail level... even higher... Bob Fenner>

Goldfish-Resistant Fin Rot? Mela-not-fix... getting to... identifying an treating root cause/s, not symptoms 7/13/08
Hi Crew,
<Jennifer>
Thank you in advance for your help! I have a beautiful 4-inch (body + tail) Shubunkin goldfish living in a 27-gal tank with a 40-gal Power filter and a large air stone. He is the only fish in the tank and it has been established for over 6 months. About 6 weeks ago, I noticed the beginning stages of what I think is fin rot on both caudal tail tips. I hate to admit it, but I'm afraid we neglected his tank cleaning a bit and I suspect the slight ammonia increase (0.25ppm when I first tested it after noticing the frayed fins) made his susceptible to infection.
<Mmm, maybe... there should not be any ammonia present. Perhaps some other/redundant biological filtration>
First, I tried vacuuming gravel along with 50% water change and adding Amquel+ in the recommended dose to detoxify any remaining ammonia. After about a week, the rot continued to get worse, so I tried what I thought would be a "gentle" approach and added Melafix
<...>
for the recommended 7-day treatment. This did absolutely nothing
<What it does>
and the rot only got worse because it became red along the frayed edges. I performed a 25% water change and replaced the activated carbon to get rid of the medication.
<Not really a medication>
I did nothing except monitor water quality for a few days.
Ammonia fluctuated between 0 and 0.25ppm, Nitrite was always 0, and Nitrates stayed around 10-15ppm. As I said, this was a well-established tank, but the fact that I could not get the ammonia to stabilize at 0 made me think the Melafix destroyed by biological filtration.
<Does this as well>
It is important to mention that I was having to add a standard dose of Amquel+ every evening to keep the water quality at the levels I just mentioned. At this point, a fish-hobbyist friend told me to try Maracyn since the redness had not gone away and the rot was progressing. I followed the 5-day treatment and the redness was reduced, but not eliminated and the fins did not start growing back.
<The environment...>
Again, I did a 25% water change, replaced the carbon for a day, then started a treatment of Maracyn-Two. I thought maybe the bacterial infection was gram- rather than gram+.
<Rather rare actually>
After this 5-day treatment, there was no improvement at all, and all the while I'm having to still add Amquel+ every other day to keep the aforementioned levels. (I added a dose of Cycle
<This Hagen product rarely works...>
at the start of the Maracyn-Two treatment, which is I think why I was able to get away with less frequent doses of Amquel+.) At this point, I was really alarmed at the fin rot progression and resistance, so I went back to the only treatment that showed any signs of improvement, which was the Maracyn. On the advice of my friend, I treated with Maracyn concurrently with Maroxy, as he started to wonder if this was a fungal fin rot.
<Not per accidens... not the immediate cause... the environment>
I am currently on my third day of treatment with these medications, but I haven't seen much, if any, improvement. I will say it doesn't seem to be getting any worse at the moment. Today was the first day that the Nitrite level went above 0 to 0.25ppm, and the ammonia was zero. Perhaps this is my tank starting to re-cycle?
<Seems so>
I am just so upset that I've tried everything I can think of to help my fish, but nothing is really working. The only comfort I have is that he is behaving 100% normally and eating with a very healthy appetite. I am also purposely trying to feed less and vacuum his tank every other day. I test water quality 2 times per day.
Whew! That was an earful, I know, but I wanted to make sure you had all the info. Do you think there is anything else going on with my poor fish instead of/in addition to the bacterial fin rot?
<I don't think this is the actual problem here... "It" is the env.>
The frays are now about 1/2 an inch long on his tail. What should I do once the Maracyn/Maroxy combo treatment is over in two more days? I have a bad feeling the infection will still be active. Is this at all normal? I'm desperate to stop the rot from reaching his body, because I've read that will at the very least mean his fin won't grow back and at the worst will kill him!
Thank you, again, for you patience with a worried Mom.
Sincerely,
Jennifer
<Again; some simple additional filtration that incorporates a mechanical media... that will act along with the hang on power filter... Perhaps a sponge filter, an inside power filter, some live plant material... even a simple small undergravel filter plate... The nitrogenous trouble was the real root cause here... All the treatments were attempts at treating symptoms, not the cause. Fix the environment, fix this fish. Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish-Resistant Fin Rot? - 07/13/08
Thank you for your advice, Bob. Honestly, I searched your site for many hours looking for specific info on resistant fin rot,
<Mmm, likely because... there really isn't such a thing... Really>
and although I didn't find much (perhaps I wasn't looking in the right spots), I did read a lot of info on goldfish systems and environment, which was very helpful. Tonight is the last dose of the Maracyn/Maroxy combo. I was thinking of vacuuming gravel and doing a 50% water change while replacing the carbon filter to clean the water.
<Don't vacuum the bottom... too likely to impair the biological filter>
Also, I have a spare hang-on filter I could add to the tank, as well.
<Ah, great!>
I was wondering what you thought about continuing with another round of Maracyn/Maroxy (the box says a second round of treatment is okay to use).
<Not worthwhile. Good products, but don't address the real issue here>
I understand completely that fixing the environment is a must, but until the tank is finished re-cycling, all I know to do is control the water chemistry with water changes, vacuuming and Amquel+.
<I would stop using the Amquel as well... this fine Novalek product contains other chemicals you'd do best avoiding...>
In the meantime,
should I continue to treat my fish's symptoms with medication?
<No>
I'm afraid if I stop medication and the infection is still present with redness and everything, that the bacteria will become resistant and render further medication useless. My friend suggested, as a last resort, to dab some iodine solution directly on the fin damage without letting it get in the water or the fish's eyes.
<Not worthwhile either>
Have you heard of this being successful, or is it more of a gamble? My gut tells me just to keep doing water changes until the tank stabilizes, but I'm by no means any kind of expert and I would hate to think that my inaction will make my fish worse.
I know you are very busy, and I really do appreciate your help. And I know my poor fish does, too!
Sincerely,
Jennifer
<Best to just monitor ammonia, nitrite, not feed period if these are detectable... RMF>

Re: Goldfish-Resistant Fin Rot? - 07/14/08
Once, again, thank you for your help. I actually just have one last question, not specifically related to the fin rot issue, but important
none-the-less. Maybe other relatively new fish hobbyists like myself will also find it helpful. In all my fish tanks, I have always used a specific
brand of natural spring water that I've found through chemical testing to have ideal water chemistry for my goldfish.
<Interesting... most tap waters are fine for goldfish... provided they don't have too much sanitizer. I simply vac, drain about a quarter of my goldfish systems every week and replace with straight outdoor hose tap (nothing else)... perhaps with a pickle bucket (four or so gallons) of heated indoor water about the same time every week>
It is also very convenient not to have to pre-treat the water other than letting the temperature equalize with that of the tank water. However, after this round of trouble with my Shubunkin, this method is becoming very expensive to keep up water changes!
<Is there some aspect of your source/house water that you think/consider problematical?>
I tested my tap water, and all water chemistry is very similar to the spring water (pH especially), but it contains 1.0 ppm of ammonia
<!? Surprising>
(and chlorine which I would obviously let evaporate).
<This last "takes" about a week nowadays... chloramine, not chlorine>
Is the only way to "condition" the water for use in my tank a product like Amquel+?
<Mmm, no... the simplest is to let the water set for the duration interval twixt change-outs... or "take a/the risk" as I do, and only change part...>
In the previous email, you mentioned I should discontinue use of this product,
<Correct. I would NOT use daily... for the purpose of arresting ammonia presence... see WWM, elsewhere re... will forestall the establishment of nitrification (does this make sense?) among other things it is best to avoid while the fish is weakened>
so I'm worried I shouldn't use it to condition the tap water. I should mention I also have API's Stress Coat on hand.
<A very similar product. I also would not use daily>
Would this be a better alternative, or would I encounter the same problem of extra unwanted chemicals?
<Yes...>
Hopefully this will be the last time I have to bug you so you can do your wonderful work with others in need. Thank you!
Sincerely,
Jennifer
<I do hope I am being clear, complete-enough here Jennifer. You are an exemplary aquarist... conscientious beyond fault. I realize there is much conflicting information to be had via the Net, stores, even in-print books... Best to read good sources, like Goldfish Connection, WWM, and determine what is factual, useful for your situation yourself. Bob Fenner>

Re: Goldfish-Resistant Fin Rot? 7/27/08
Hi there, Bob (and Crew!)
<Jennifer>
I have just spent several hours researching your and other sites for information on pH in my ongoing saga to save my poor goldfish from a mysterious fin rot issue. All the local pet stores I've visited have been perplexed at why I can't seem to rid my fish of this problem. As a brief refresher, I have a 27-gal tank with a single 4-in Shubunkin who presented with bacterial fin rot 8 weeks ago. After incorrectly treating with *many*meds, I took Bob's much-appreciated advice and stopped all meds, focused on getting the tank re-cycled and keeping the water in pristine conditions.
About a week ago, the tank finished cycling and the readings have been steady at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5-10 nitrates.
<Ah, good!>
However, the fin rot STILL has not cleared up.
<This will likely take weeks time>
Since Bob's last reply, it actually got slightly worse, but since the tank has finished cycling, the redness on the edges of the
frays has completely disappeared, which I'm taking as a good sign, yes?
<Correct>
However, there have been no signs of fin regrowth.
<If not "too rotted back" they will regenerate in time>
My continued efforts to understand the underlying problem in this tank led me to m y current question on pH. When the fin rot first appeared, the pH in the tank was testing at 7.4-7.6 range (hard to get a precise reading against a color chart). The spring water
<Mmm... often this sort of water is inferior to simple dechloraminated tap use...>
I use for partial water changes tests at 7.6-7.8. Oddly enough, however, the tank water now tests at 8.0-8.2. Looking back, the large doses of Amquel+ I was using could have lowered the tank pH to the 7.4-7.6 level, but I'm not certain. After my first round of research on Goldfish connection and Koko's goldfish site, I learned to try the test of letting some of the spring water sit in a cup for 24 hrs, then re-testing the pH. Oddly enough, after sitting out, it was testing at 8.2! This explains why my tank pH is high, but for the life of me, I can't find an explanation for how the pH of the plain water can go up by itself.
<Mmm, likely a/the loss of oxygen...>
Has anyone else seen this problem?
<Oh yes... does happen. Again, a reason to just use tap...>
If so, is there anything I can do to fix it or is it something I don't need to necessarily worry about?
<... I'd use tap...>
A post on Goldfish Connection stated that a goldfish will do fine in pH up to 8.4 and that he wouldn't bother taking
action unless it goes above 9.0.
<Mmm... as an upper limit>
A pH of 8.2 just seems so high to me, though and I want to make sure it isn't the reason my fish hasn't healed.
I've strongly considered switching to tap water, but there is so much chlorine, ammonia and chloramines in Tampa, FL tap water that I have to add 5-times the recommended dose of AmQuel+ just to get a 0 reading for ammonia.
<Store it in a loose- fitting topped container for a week or more ahead of use...>
LPS employees have told me I can just dump the untreated water directly in the tank and add a standard dose, but this didn't sound like a good idea to me (then again, what do I know?).
<This is... actually what I do, have done for many years with my fancy goldfish systems in S. Cal.... mostly w/ no dechloraminator at all>
I'd prefer to keep using the spring water (from Silver Springs in FL), but I'm willing to stop if you all think the pH
is too high.
<I wouldn't use because I'm cheap, and not necessary, better than tap>
Thank you so much... my little guy would probably be dead from over-medication if I hadn't listened to your advice two weeks ago, so please know how truly grateful I am.
With much respect,
Jennifer
<Thank you for sharing. BobF>

Re: Goldfish-Resistant Fin Rot? 8/12/08
Dear WWM Crew,
<Jennifer>
I have to say I'm on the verge of giving up hope. As you know, I've been battling a persistent fin rot issue for 10 weeks. Despite consistent good water quality since my last post on July 27 (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5 nitrate, pH=8.2), my shubunkin goldfish became re-infected with the same fin rot infection he had before. In my last post, I had reported the redness surrounding the rot had completely cleared up. I was so excited! But, this was short lived as I noticed the redness was beginning to return on 8/7. I immediately began feeding a medicated food because I wanted to stop the infection before it got out of control, but to no avail. It is now a full-blown infection again with the rot progressing. Although the infection had previously cleared, his fins never did start to regrow. This will probably be my last post on the issue because I feel that I've done all that is humanly possible. I even removed the large cave that has been in his 27gal aquarium for 2 years "just in case" it was starting to leech toxins!
My LFSs have given up on me as they say there is nothing left to try. I do regular maintenance on the filters, keep the tank clean and still perform an approx. 20% water change once per week to maintain excellent water conditions. The main reason for my post is to see if anyone can think of something I've overlooked. If not, I fear the worst may happen. It's so sad...he really is a trooper, because despite his persistent illness, he still eats and swims normally, although perhaps a little slower than in his healthier days. Please tell me, is there anything else I can do?
Thank you for your time.
With hope fading,
Jennifer
<Mmm, nothing more... only more patience. Do hang in there Jen. BobF>

Sick Orandas 7/25/08
Hello Crew,
I have 2 Oranda Goldfish. I got them a week ago, after having a 20 gallon tank circulating for about 3 days. (As I have read in your FAQs this may not have been long enough.)
<Indeed not. Cycling takes anything up to 6 weeks, and certainly at least a month. You can cycle a tank with fish, but it isn't recommended and requires frequent (daily) water changes of at least 25%. It's a lot easier to "jump start" the tank using live biological media from another tank. In any event, make sure you read and understand this issue -- this is basically what fishkeeping is all about! Get this right (and it's actually VERY EASY if you do things slowly) and EVERYTHING else in the hobby is a piece of cake.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm
>
This is my first time with goldfish and the man at the pet store I got them from didn't tell me anything except "You don't need a heater, feed them only about 2 flakes each a day, and don't add anymore fish for a month".
<Broadly true, but there's more to keeping Goldfish than this. They are herbivores for example, and do poorly fed nothing but flake.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm
They also need quite a bit of space, and they grow quickly. You certainly need strong filtration and generous water changes if you want them to remain in good health. Otherwise they are very prone to Finrot, fungal infections and so on.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm
>
I noticed they had slightly cloudy eyes but didn't know if that was normal.
<Not normal; commonly a sign of excess mucous, in turn revealing water quality is poor. Water changes and regular use of your nitrite test kit is ESSENTIAL.>
After a few days, they are full blown SICK. One is hanging out at the bottom of the tank with drooping fins, and the other will stop swimming and float belly up for a little while, then flip over a swim a little bit. I have also noticed very small white specks on them, mostly on their tail fins but on their heads as well and their eyes are much cloudier.
<Likely Finrot and/or Fungus. Treat at once using eSHa 2000 or Maracyn or some equivalent medication, but not Melafix or salt, even if the fish store guy recommends these. They don't work.>
Unfortunately I read some other websites before finding yours and I may have taken some bad advice. I did a 50% water change,
<Always a good idea!>
added the recommended amount of aquarium salt,
<There is NO recommended amount of salt for Goldfish; they are freshwater fish, and if adding salt is the "cure", then you have a problem. Adding salt is old school fishkeeping, and essentially trying to fix symptoms not the problem.>
added Melafix, AND Ick Away.
<Neither relevant here.>
Now after reading your FAQs I'm scared that I did way too much, or possibly the wrong thing. Do you think I changed their environment too much and cause more damage than good?
<Water changes -- provided water chemistry is constant -- never does any harm. The more, the better.>
Should I change the water in 24 hours like it says on the Ick Away bottle?
<Depends on whether they have Whitespot/Ick. This disease is very distinctive; it looks as if someone put salt on your fish. If your fish do have this (again, a sign of poor conditions) then complete the Ick treatment as explained on the package. Never, ever "improvise" with medications unless you know (or are told) to do otherwise. Most medications will only work/not do harm if used correctly.>
Should I discontinue the use of the Melafix?
<Yes.>
Also I was wondering if they are sick because of something I do you think I bought them like this? Can you help me?
<Yes and no. Many diseases on fish are caused by organisms that sit in the tank anyway. Finrot for example is caused by Aeromonas bacteria that ordinarily do good work breaking down organic matter in the substrate. They are part of the nitrogen cycle, and you need them. The problem is that when fish are stressed by poor conditions their immune systems stop working, and this allows otherwise harmless bacteria to cause problems. This is exactly the same thing as in humans, where people with compromised immune systems become far more vulnerable to pathogens most of us never even notice.>
Thank you so much for any advice you can provide.
Lynn
<Please do review the needs of Goldfish, plus <<Was the end of the comm. RMF>>

Re: Sick Orandas 7/25/08
After reading your advice and researching Finrot and/or fungus. I now don't believe it's Ick because it doesn't look like salt on their bodies, just dust on them. The one that keeps turning belly-up, his tail looks like it's shredded. I'm going to find eSHa 2000 or Maracyn this morning, and I'll do another water change before adding it. Thank you for your help!!!
Lynn
<Hello Lynn. Looks as if you've diagnosed the problem. eSHa 2000 appears to be sold only in Europe, and that's why I recommend it, living in England. For Americans, Maracyn is the drug-of-choice. There should be other brands and products available in most countries though. Cheers, Neale.>

HELP! beloved fish sick!! 7/24/08
Neale,
<Cassie,>
I have a huge, beautiful, white female pond fish (not koi) that belonged to my husband’s great-grandfather (he bred them). He was VERY fond of her and talked about how she was his favorite. He loved her silvery-white coloring and her blue eyes. When he had to go away to a retirement home 4-5 years ago, he asked me to take care of his fish. I took most of the pond fish he had, found other homes for most of them (I know a couple of wonderful pond-keepers), and I kept my favorites. He passed away last fall, so (I know it seems silly) this fish is extremely special to my husband and me… She reminds us of him.
<I can see that this fish would be of great worth to you. I am curious as to what he might be though; most of the white pond fish I've seen are Koi, though very pale, practically albino Goldfish do exist. Given the age of this fish, and the fact it's been bred in captivity, I'm pretty sure it's one or other of these species. It's quite easy to tell Koi and Goldfish apart: Koi have short whiskers around the mouth, but Goldfish do not.>
My husband’s great-grandfather gave this big female fish to me at least 4 or 5 years ago. There’s no telling how old she is, though. She was already about 10 inches long back then, and she doesn’t seem to have grown much. She and my other pond fish were kept in a small 75 gallon pond until last summer. I was pregnant with my daughter at the time, and in June 2007 we moved them to a large aquarium in our living room because we didn’t think an open body of water was a good thing to have around with our baby… I should add that the tank is a 90 gal. Eclipse (though they don't call it eclipse anymore... it's Marineland, I suppose). GREAT tank... moves 600-gallons-per-hour. We LOVE it. They also have a 14 inch long air-stone run by a 100-gal air pump.
<Sounds nice. But I will make the point that Koi simply never do that well indoors, in my opinion (of course lots of people will now write in and say their Koi are perfectly happy indoors!).>
The June 2007 move went fine, and all the fish survived. They have all been doing WONDERFULLY for the past year. …all swimming happily, eating well, dorsal fins up and perky… All was well. The tank has been up and running for over a year now, though I've had the pond fish for many, many years before that. I got my first small batch of them around 10-12 years ago, and 3 of those are still going strong, so I guess I must be doing SOMETHING right. All of my pond fish are AT LEAST 5 years old and I have had them their whole lives… There is a 5-yr-old Pleco, too, who gets along great with the pond fish. They have all been very happy and very healthy their whole lives… until very recently.
<OK...?>
June 13th (last month), she developed a bad case of pop-eye in her right eye. It was very grotesque-looking, but it didn’t seem to bother her much. I immediately did a partial water change and treated with Melafix. The swelling in her eye went down immediately, and her eye was completely normal just a couple of days later. She seemed completely normal for the past month.
<Pop-eye is almost always caused either by water quality problems or physical damage; if just one eye becomes inflamed, then chances are it was physical damage. I'd check the tank for any rough ornaments, as well as review things like netting procedures or even whether one or other fish might be aggressive. Plecs for example have been known to suck onto big fish, seemingly to feed on mucous. It's rare, but it does happen. In any event, as you've seen Pop-eye will get better by itself under good conditions, and is rarely life-threatening in itself.>
This morning, when I woke up and checked on the fish as normal, I noticed her sitting on the bottom of the tank. This is very unusual for her. However, as soon as she saw me, she quickly began swimming and looking for food as normal. I didn’t think much of it. As the day progressed, she spent less and less time swimming, and more and more time “resting” on the bottom. Her breathing became very labored.
<This is quite alarming with most fish. My instinct when I see this is two-fold: do water tests, and then do a 50% (or bigger) water change. If the fish immediately peps up after a big water change, I can narrow down the range of problems to environmental issues. Sometimes even things like water temperature can stress coldwater fish sufficiently that they behave erratically.>
I tested the water. I have a color-coded test kit which tests nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity, and pH. All levels tested “acceptable” or “ideal” except for the nitrite level. The color turned up very strange -- a color that is not on the chart. I took this as a bad sign, so I did about a 30%-40% water change at around lunchtime. I treated the water with Melafix. She perked up a bit.
<The perkiness is almost certainly the water change, not the Melafix (which I'm not a big fan of). In any case, if you have nitrite, then either your tank is overstocked or you're under-filtered or you're overfeeding. If you haven't added any fish, and they haven't grown much, and you aren't adding much different food, then concentrate on filtration. Biological filters need cleaning, but not too much cleaning. Check the filter is working properly. They don't last forever. Even at a simple level, things like the impeller (to spinning thing) can get clogged. So dismantle the filter, give all the hardware a good clean (including the hoses!) and rinse the biological media in a bucket of aquarium water, squeezing the sponges or sluicing the ceramic noodles. Clean or replace mechanical media. I'm not a fan of chemical media in standard freshwater tanks, and I'd heartily recommend replacing carbon and/or Zeolite with more good quality biological media.>
However, she took a turn for the worst last night. HELP!! She is sitting on the bottom full-time now. Her mouth is running a mile-a-minute… she’s GASPING! The other fish are totally fine. They seem to be happy and perky in their cleaner, fresher, newly treated water. I am very upset and concerned for my poor white fish!
<She may be more sensitive because of her age or species. If the other fish are Goldfish, but she's a Koi (as I suspect) she will be MUCH more sensitive to nitrite than the other fish. Short term, stop feeding the fish altogether, and do 50% water changes daily. Keep using the nitrite test kit every day or two to see that the nitrite level is going downwards.>
I don’t want to lose her! …does ANYONE know of anything else I can do for her as an emergency rescue? …anything I can do now, at home? I have read about feeding them peas to help their swim-bladder to get them up off the bottom… does anyone know anything about this? I am afraid she may not make it through the night. I am so worried!
I know this seems silly… I know it’s “just a fish,” but like I said, she is very special to my family and me…
<I honestly don't think she's ill; I think these symptoms are environmental. Both Koi and Goldfish can live a long time. Goldfish easily last 20 years if cared for properly, and the record is over 30 years. Koi should easily live many decades, with at least one Koi, Hanako, known to have lived for 215 years! In other words, I'd not to be too worried she's on her way out just yet.>
Thank you for your time...
<Hope this helps, Neale.>

HELP! beloved fish sick!! Large comets in too small, damaged a world... "Fix" again RMF 7/24/08
I need your help!!!
I just posted this on Yahoo Answers, but I don't always trust that. We'll see how that goes.
MUCH-loved POND FISH appears to be dying… HELP!!?
I have a huge, beautiful, white female pond fish (not koi)
<Likely a large comet goldfish...>
in a large 90 gallon aquarium with a fantastic top-of-tank 600-gal.-per-hour filtering system with a few other pond fish. The rest are all AT LEAST 5 years old (some pushing 10). I’ve had them their whole lives …all very healthy until recently.
<Mmm, water quality tests? Very common to have cycling, waste accumulation issues with such fishes in small volumes... 90 gallons is small>
June 13th (last month), she developed a case of pop-eye in her right eye. I immediately did a partial water change and treated with Melafix.
<Worthless... worse than... likely killed your bio-filter...>
The swelling in her eye went right down - she seemed normal for past month.
This morning, she was sitting on the bottom (unusual), but as soon as she saw me, she began swimming around as normal. Later, she spent less time swimming, and more time “resting” on the bottom.
I tested water with a color-coded test kit (nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity, pH). All came up “acceptable” except for the nitrite level. That turned up an odd color, so I did about a 30%-40% water change at around noon. I treated with Melafix. She perked up, but...
<Uhh... diluting the nitrite won't work... the "Fix" will kill the beneficial microbes...>
15 minutes ago
- 3 days left to answer.
Additional Details
14 minutes ago
<?>
after the water change and the Melafix treatment, she perked up a bit, but she taken a turn for the worst in the last couple of hours. HELP!! She is sitting on the bottom GASPING now! Other fish are totally fine… seem to be happy in their clean water.
I am very worried for my poor white fish! I don’t want to lose her! Does ANYONE know of anything else I can do now at home for her as an emergency rescue?
<Do you have a system that is cycled you can move all to?>
I have read about feeding them peas to help their swim-bladder to get them up off the bottom…
<Not a/the cause... which you need to treat... Which is the environment... now poisoned with the API product... Need to get these fish into a cycled system of size>
does anyone know anything about this? I am afraid she may not make it through the night. I am so worried!
…please, serious responses only… I know it’s “just a fish,” but like I said, she is very special to my family and me…
I should add that the tank is 90 gal. eclipse (though they don't call it eclipse anymore... it's Marineland, I suppose). GREAT tank... 600-gallons-per-hour. LOVE it. It's been up and running for over a year now, though I've had the pond fish for many, many years before that. I got my first small batch of them around 10-12 years ago, and 3 of those are still going strong, so I guess I must be doing SOMETHING right. There is a 5-yr-old Pleco, too, who gets along great with the pond fish.
Please help! I don't want to lose her!
-Cassie-
<Please use the search tool and/or indices on WWM re Melafix... Goldfish systems... Read, and soon, starting here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the linked files above. Move these fish, don't feed anything if there is any detectable ammonia or nitrite... Bob Fenner>

Pearlscale swim bladder 7/23/08
Bob Fenner,
<In his absence, it's me, Neale.>
Hello, I could do with some advice related to my goldfish , and three year old Pearlscale
<Oh?>
I found your email on WetWebMedia and have read many of the posts and advice you have given out before about swim bladder issues. I have fed my Pearlscale peas, veg, and frozen foods like daphnia and bloodworm for a many months, well proceeding the recent floating at the top of the tank. So I can rule out constipation. I think.
<Well, keep plugging away at the veggie diet; will do your fish no harm and potentially much good.>
Water quality is good - her tankmate is in good health. I have added aquarium salt
<Neither helpful not required. Salt can cause various disorders in freshwater fish including Dropsy-like symptoms. Wild Carassius auratus are actually very salt tolerant and do fine in brackish water, but the inbred fancy forms may be less tolerant, and maybe even harmed.>
and InterPet no.13 - and hope this works.
<Useless. Never heard of a single case where it helped a fish. Right up there with Melafix as more placebo than treatment.>
In the meantime I have constructed a temporary sling to hold her weight so that she doesn't lay on the top of the water with half her body exposed to the air.
<Sounds quite clever!>
In a week or two of treatment I will remove the sling and with hope all will be well. Anything else I might do?
<If the infection is really a systemic bacterial one, you really will need something like Erythromycin to make much difference. In the US, there's a product called Maracyn that contains this. In the UK (and indeed most of the rest of the world) antibiotics are not available over-the-counter, though some aquarium stores will sell Erythromycin "under-the-counter", which is of course illegal. You can also buy the drug completely legally from your vet. The easiest thing is to pop in and talk to the nurse on duty. Explain the symptoms, and with luck they'll give you some pills for use. This isn't expensive, and nice vets (particularly ones you know through your dog or cat) will sell them at cost, which is no more expensive than the £5 or whatever for regular fish medications at the pet store. Alternatively, you can give a product called eSHa 2000 a whirl; although designed for Finrot and Fungus, it has strong antibacterial properties. It does appear to treat some internal infections, such as Dropsy, and my experience of the product is extremely positive.
http://www.eshalabs.com/esha2000.htm
As ever, the sooner you treat, the better. This is especially where antibacterial treatments are used, because they tend to be less effective than antibiotic ones.>
Many thanks,
Chris
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Pearlscale swim bladder 7/23/08
I am off to the vets now, but in case they don't know how I can make the pills useful for a goldfish, do I grind them up and add them to the water?
Many thanks,
Chris
<There are two ways. Commercial Erythromycin such as Maracyn is added to the water at a dose of 250 mg/40 litres. Alternatively, Furazolidone can be added to the food at 50-75mg/kg fish weight for 7-10 days, one meal per day. This is a good treatment for systemic bacterial infections. Other drugs used include Oxytetracycline at 6-75 mg/kg fish weight, 7-14 days, one meal per day; and sulphadimine at 200 mg/kg fish weight for up to 14 days, one meal per day. For these last two, the numbers are taken from 'The Interpet Manual of Fish Health' if your vet needs to check the reference. Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Pearlscale swim bladder 7/23/08
Thank you very much for your feedback - I'm off to see the vet today! I'll let you know how it goes.
Chris
<Very good! Hope it all goes well, Neale.>

Re: Pearlscale swim bladder 7/23/08
Thank you for your help. Sadly my fish died this afternoon, 36 hours after showing symptoms.
<Too bad.>
On closer inspection once dead, she had what looked like tissue/organ leaving her vent. Perhaps she was egg-bound,
<Unlikely; Goldfish need to be very big to breed, and usually only do so in ponds.>
or the swim bladder/internal organs were damaged.
<Difficult to know really.>
Either way, a sad way to go. Thank you for your help. At least the other goldfish in the tank is in good health. I have scrubbed the tank thoroughly.
<Take care not to over-clean the tank. Wiping down the glass and rinsing the gravel through is fine, but leave the filter alone except perhaps for squeezing the sponge (or rinsing the ceramic noodles) in a bucket of aquarium water.>
Many thanks,
Chris
<Cheers, Neale.>

Whole tail coming off Goldfish 7/22/08
Hi I have what I believe is a Ryukin gold fish (although it's body is the diamond shape it's tail doesn't seem to be a double or fan shape so I can't tell for sure but it is a fancy breed) that's about 4 inches long not including fins. It has very long veil like fins. The problem is his tail. Quite awhile ago he lost a chunk off the top. It happened suddenly and I treated with a multi cure and this stuff called stress-zyme. And he seemed to be fine. About a week ago I lost a similar fish who I think had an ongoing bloat issue. We got 3 young Ryukin a couple of days ago to replace it as we have a very large tank. Now I've noticed one of the new fish has taken to nibbling on the large fish as it goes by. This is getting less so as the days go by and I'm going to remove it if it keeps it up. My biggest concern is that the big guy seems to be dropping chunks of tail again. It looks as though the tail is tearing off bit by bit. The tear is vertical and close to the body so that if it continues he will be left with a stump. I can see a small amount of swollen white tissue at the tear site and the newest edge of the tear shows a bit of red. Is this tail rot?
Thanks for your help in advance,
Manda
<Yes it is. Treat promptly with a reliable (i.e., not salt or Melafix) treatment. In Europe I'd recommend eSHa 2000, in the US Maracyn. Almost always related to poor water quality, so check your water quality, particularly ammonia and/or nitrite. Your Goldfish are quite large and should be in a tank not less than 20 gallons in size and really 30 gallons or more. Filtration should be substantial, and you must do 25-50% water changes per week. If you don't remedy any underlying problems, treating the Finrot will be a stop-gap measure at best, with the Goldfish eventually succumbing to an internal bacterial infection of some sort.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/goldfish101art.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Whole tail coming off 7/22/08
Thank you, I forgot to mention I'm in australia. I will have to ask the pet shop for a treatment sold here.
<Should be many options. Just don't use "aquarium salt" or Melafix (tea-tree oil) as these won't work in this case. Has to be a formalin/copper-based medication of some type. Use as instructed, and make sure there is NO carbon in the filter, as this removes medication. Cheers, Neale.>

Black Moor Problems – 07/16/08
Dear Crew
I'm really sorry for being a nuisance but I really need some help. I've never had Black moors before and my friend had got me one for my birthday from the local petstore. I've had him for a month now, and for most of this time he's been velvety black. recently I've noticed him changing colour slightly and I don't know whether it's normal or not. I'm really worried also that he's sick because he has his dorsal and pectoral fins folded against his body. he's in a tank with a comet and a shubunkin, I don't have a filter but I change the water every second day. He's still got his appetite, and he interacts with me and the other fishes in the tank. I don't know what to do and I'm really confused right now. Your help would be really appreciated.
yours sincerely
Victoria
<Hello Victoria. Without knowing precisely what the colour changes are, or what the aquarium environment is like, it is difficult to say what's going on here for sure. However, from the sound of things, my assumption is that Goldfish is reacting to poor water quality by producing extra mucous. This makes its body look more grey than black. The clamped fins would be consistent with this, too. The fact you don't have a filter is worrying: despite Goldfish often being placed in tanks (or bowls) without filters, their mortality under such conditions is very high. I'd encourage you to read something on the basic care of Goldfish, and then review whether the aquarium you have matches those conditions. Very often people make the mistake of keeping them in tanks that are too small, not using filters, or using water from a domestic water softener.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/goldfish101art.htm
Hope this helps, Neale.>

Re: Black Moor Problems 7/17/2008
Dear Neale
thank you so much for your help. I'm taking a look at fish tanks so hopefully they might be getting a new home, but until then is it safe to use filtered water? also the black moor is changing to a bluish/brown color and I have a comet that was pure white changing to orange, are these color changes natural? yet again than you for the help.
Yours sincerely, Victoria
<Hello Victoria. There's no point to using filtered water. Better to use dechlorinated tap water. Do big, regular water changes (I'd say 50% per week, at least). Using filtered water would get very expensive doing that, to no advantage! Goldfish like hard water, so water from a domestic water softener is bad, too. Black Goldfish sometimes turn bronze/green, and changes from white to orange happen too. Goldfish all start off as green when young, and then change colour as they get a bit older. Sometimes their genes make other changes happen too. But do make sure you understand the difference between a fish changing colour and something like Finrot, which causes bloody patches to appear on the skin and fins. Goldfish are lovely, tamable fish that genuinely enjoy human company. So spending a little time and money giving them a good home will pay you back handsomely in the long run. Good luck, Neale.>

Re: Black Moor Problems 7/18/08
Dear Neale
Thank you very much. I'm hoping that soon enough they'll both be back to normal, its odd that the shubunkin hasn't been affected at all. thank you again, all your help is greatly appreciated!
yours sincerely
Victoria
<We're happy to help. Keep reading, and keep enjoying your fish! Cheers, Neale.>

Dying goldfish, env. 7/15/08
Dear Crew:
<Anne>
We have 3 goldfish -- Mojo and Jojo, who are two and a half years old, and Pierre, who is about a year and a half old. They live in separate tanks -- Mojo and Jojo in a 16-gallon BiOrb and Pierre in a 5-gallon TopFin tank (with a wheel filter system).
<Mmm, need more room than these... esp. the BiOrb lacks surface area>
We'd gotten behind on changing Pierre's water but did a partial change this morning at about 9 am. He was swimming around fine every time I walked by. Then I saw that he was at the top of the tank and not really moving. I checked the water quality, and it was fine. Then, at around 1:45 pm, he was upside down at the top of the tank and was being sucked toward the water intake. I turned off the light and the filter
<Turn this back on>
to see if that would help him, but he stayed up in the corner, upside down. He did wiggle weakly, but that was it. So I started panicking. I checked his filter, and it was full of green goo, though the water itself is clear (and was before the water change, too). He was now upside down and in the other corner of the tank. I made the assumption that it was the water change that caused the problem, so I grabbed Pierre in a bowl and put him in the other tank Mojo and Jojo. He's still upside down, though in the middle of the tank rather than at the top, and he's still gasping a little bit. In addition, it could be my imagination, but it seems to me that he's turning a little blue (?).
I talked with our local fish store, who said that the water we put in his tank this morning was probably too warm, and that he's really stressed out. He suggested putting him in a smaller tank with an air stone to make sure Pierre's getting enough oxygen,
<Good>
so we're setting up a new hospital tank and putting him in it. The nice guy at the fish store also said that there was nothing we could be into the fish tank (such as chemicals or medication) that would help Pierre.
<Likely so>
I love my fish, and Pierre is my baby. I feel in love with him the minute I saw him! Is he going to be ok?
<Only time can/will tell>
What else can I do?
<Hope>
What did I do wrong?
<Too small a world really... possibly a nutritional component as well>
Is it just the temperature? The guy at the store said that they either make it or they don't, and there's nothing else I can do for him. Help :-(
Anne
<Read: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshsystems.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Dying goldfish 7/15/08
Dear Bob:
Thanks so much for your reply. Unfortunately, Pierre did not make it :-( We thought that a 5-gallon tank would be enough space for a single goldfish -- were we wrong?
<Yes>
We had read that a gallon per fish inch was the rule of thumb.
<Is... a fallacy>
Should we have just one fish in the BiOrb? Aren't they social animals, though?
<Can be social... but the BiOrb... by being an orb... is inherently unsuitable for aquatic life>
Since our disaster with Pierre, we've added a bubble line to the BiOrb, which Mojo and Jojo seem to like.
<Ah, good>
We thought we had it all figured out -- we feed them a variety of foods, including little cubes of worms and shrimps;
<Actually... please do read on WWM... goldfish need more roughage than protein>
we thought we had the ratio of gallons to fish figured out; we have silk plants for cover; we established the tanks before we put anyone in them -- but apparently we didn't. I would very much like to fix what we did wrong so that Mojo and Jojo stay strong and healthy and so that if we ever decide to get another fish, we can ensure that they'll have a long and strong life.
Thanks,
Anne
<Life to you my friend. BobF>

Possible goldfish tumor? – 07/10/08
Hi there guys, I have a problem with one of my goldfish that the people on other goldfish forums cannot answer. Here's some barebones info:
Experienced a pH crash around the 23rd of last month (June). Almost lost the fish, but a water change cleared that up quickly. Got some
Buff-It-Up from Goldfishconnection and have not had a problem with pH since (The Alkalinity of my tap water cannot support a "Goldie" pH)
Before the Ph crash, the tank had been cycled with the aid of BioSpira and was doing okay.
Tank is now re-cycling itself. I think the pH crash may have hurt the almost-established cycle.
*Tank size: 29Gal
*What is the name and size of the filter/s? Marineland Penguin 350 (Filters 350 gal./hr)
*How often do you change the water and how much? - Every two days at the moment because of the cycling. 50% water change. Sometimes daily depending on the numbers
*How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 fancy goldfish. One is about 2" without tail and the other is about 1.75" without the tail.
*What kind of water additives or conditioners? - Buff-It-Up for pH and AmQuel+ for water changes (to make the water safe obviously)
*Any medications added to the tank? - Have been feeding Jungle Anti-Bacterial Medicated Fish Food for about a week at the suggestion of a mod over at kokosgoldfish.com
*Add any new fish to the tank? - No
*What do you feed your fish? - Staple of Omega One and Hikari Wheat Germ (soaked in tank water beforehand) with smatterings of freeze-dried Spirulina (Hikari), Algae Wafers, peas and other veggies from the kitchen.
*Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt", - No ich, no streakiness, fish are both very active and alert with fins up and out. Colors are bright.
<Good questions, answers>
My larger fish, Gesso, has developed a large growth of sorts on top of his head. It looks like his brain has just swelled up (super-smart feesh? haha!). It's stretching the skin over his head in what looks to be a very painful way. It doesn't seem to be hurting him though, as he's happy and healthy otherwise.
<This "Wen" is a sort-of-natural sport hybrid trait>
Attached is a picture of him I took about a week ago. It's gotten a bit bigger since then. The mod over at Koko's is sending me MetroMeds food for him to see if that does anything. But I fear it's a tumor.
It is odd that it grew right after that horrid pH crash though, could they be connected?
<Mmm, not treat-able... I would NOT expose these fish to further chemicals...>
Any advice would be great. You've helped so many people. I've never seen something like this on a fish before (I've been keeping them since I was young, my mother also kept fish) and am very curious.
Thanks for your time,
Amanda
<If this is a tumour of sorts it may spontaneously remit on its own... Further challenges, stress may drive the fish's health elsewhere. Bob Fenner>

Re: Possible goldfish tumor? – 07/10/08
Thanks :) I'll just keep making sure his water is fine like I would with any healthy fish (not a fishkeeper, but a chemist haha), I started him back on his regular food today (he was so happy!).
<Ah, good>
Hopefully whatever it is, won't get any. much larger and he stays content. I'm wiling to have an ugly fish, I just don't want it to be painful for him.
Thanks again!
Amanda
<Welcome my friend. BobF>

Chocolate Oranda with Red Streaks... Env. plus Algicide 07/07/08
Hi, I've been looking around and I still can't decide on what it is that my Oranda has. Its fins are a tad ragged and has red streaks going through
them.
monia:0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate:8ppm
PH:7.4
Test Kit: API (drops)
Tank: 55 gallons, been running for about a year and a half
Filters: Topfin 60; Penguin Emperor 400
Water Changes: Once to three times a week (10-20 gallons)
<Mmm, this is likely too much... I do mine once a week... this is "about right">
Fishes: 2 Red Ryukins; 2 Chocolate Orandas
Water Additives: Amquel+; API Algaefix
<Bingo! The Algicide>
Water Conditioner: Aquarsafe
Food: Nutrafin Max
Fishes: All about a week or two old,
<Oh, this too>
added at same time
All the fishes seem to have a healthy appetite and are swimming around energetically. No other fishes seem to have any problems except for one
Chocolate Oranda.
<Really... the fishes are just too new, along with the Algicide, too-frequent water change (stress)... Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwalgicidefaqs.htm
Store new water for the week interval before using it, give up the API poison, and all should be fine in a few weeks. The redness is broken and enlarged blood vessels... Bob Fenner>

Good pix! RMF.

Re: Chocolate Oranda with Red Streaks 07/07/08
Ok, I was advised by a forum to give it 0.03% salt in 12 hour intervals, right now I am at 0.02%, is that ok? Should I cease water changes for a week? Thank you so much for the help.
<... you should read where you were referred to... RMF>

Re: Chocolate Oranda with Red Streaks 7/7/08
I read the referred page and the only question that even referred to salt use was one where a guy had used it in the past and questioned if
he should use it again, but the answer he was given, that his fishes probably died from the disease and not from the salt, does not help to answer my question. I apologize if I am missing something.
<Please use the search tool here: http://wetwebmedia.com/WWMAdminSubWebIndex/question_page.htm
Re: Salt Use, Goldfish.
B>

Advice. I have a goldfish that is having a really sub-par weekend 07/07/08
Hi Guys,
I hope you had a good 4th of July weekend. I have a goldfish that is having a really sub-par weekend. We have a fancy goldfish (basic double-tailed), that has lived with us for 4 years. When we first got him he grew normally along with the other 2 we purchased at the same time. About a year after we got him, he developed severe swim bladder type problems which we have kept in check by feeding only home-prepared food and frozen blood worms. At the same time he stopped growing at the same rate as the other fish, his tail stayed very small and droopy, and suffice to say, he has never been quite right. He seems to have some navigation problems and still has occasional bouts of swim bladder style floating about. The last 4 or 5 days he has been acting much worse though. Not with swim bladder problems, but laying at the bottom of the tank and only swimming around when he thinks there might be food in his future. Yesterday when we came home he was laying on his side at the bottom of the tank. He didn't seem to be extremely stressed, though he was breathing a little faster than seemed normal. We removed him to an isolation tank in the hopes that this would lessen his stress level. He has been there since yesterday, mostly lying on his side but perking up and swimming around if it looks like there might be food. We really like this fish and have no idea if there is anything we can do to help him. Is it likely that he has finally decided not to put up with chronic swim bladder and die?
<In a manner of speaking/writing, perhaps>
The main tank's ph levels all seem to be normal and all the other fish are acting completely normal. We understand that sometimes good fish die, but we also want to make sure that we do everything we can to insure that either he lives a good life or doesn't suffer if this is the end. Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lily
<Fancier goldfish varieties have a great leaning toward genetic/developmental issues as you relate here.
Much more here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm
and the linked files above.
If you want to euthanize this animal, I suggest Clove Oil... Please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/euthanasiafaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>

My goldfish is flipping out 7/3/08
Hello!
<Hello indeed!>
New here!
<Welcome!>
We had two goldfish for about 3-4 weeks. This morning, one was dead. I took him out immediately, checked the filter (looked like it needed to be replaced and so I replaced it), and cleaned the tank.
<Be careful here; replacing all the filter media will re-cycle your tank>
The fish that is alive has been swimming super-fast all over the tank...not upside-down at
all. He swims back and forth, up and down...almost like he is trying to come through the tank.
<He may well be trying to escape...toxic water conditions>
He also seems to swim in the front of the tank, not in the back at all. His mouth is gaping very very often as well (I don't recall it doing that before). I've put some food in the tank but he doesn't go to the top to eat it as he always has. I noticed him this evening picking at the bottom of the rocks.
I don't want him to die either. I feel terrible about the one dying (they
were a gift for our daughter when she learned to swim underwater). We are not ready to replace the other fish if this one isn't going to make it and continue a death cycle!
Here are some specifics: 2.5 gallon tank (I know now after reading other posts),
<In this case rather than replacing a fish, consider replacing your aquarium. A goldfish needs at least 15-20 gallons to prevent rapid build-up of nitrogenous wastes, and swimming room, etc.>
whisper filter- medium, he doesn't have cloudy eyes nor does his body look damaged or discolored, the food we have is Wardley Goldfish Flake food,
<Do read re goldfish nutrition on wetwebmedia.com; this food will not suffice in the long term.>
I have not tested the water (didn't know about that until reading some other posts), he is about 1.5" long and I did not attempt to give him a minced pea.
<The pea is a laxative, generally. Vegetable matter is always appreciated by goldfish, though. I would recommend purchasing some test kits if you wish to continue with aquaria- avoid the dip strip variety, as they tend to be of widely questionable accuracy. Also continue to do some reading on WetWebMedia re aquarium husbandry, water changes, feeding, etc.>
We are not familiar with caring for goldfish and thought that it wouldn't be daunting aside from feeding them and cleaning the tank. With one dead, I want to make sure the other one doesn't die because of something I did wrong.
<Understood. Many of us come in to this hobby without the faintest of what we're doing- who thought keeping ecosystems in glass boxes could be so complicated, eh?>
Any advice you can give is greatly appreciated. I read lots of posts before bugging you so I apologize if you answered this for someone else already.
If you have, do you have the direct link to that posting?
<I would just use the index to find some of the pages on basic freshwater aquarium keeping. Do a few small water changes on your goldfish's tank to keep him alive in the meantime, and research, research, research before setting up an appropriate aquarium for the fish you and your daughter ultimately wish to keep. You will find the time and money invested will repay you thousandfold times in enjoyment and health- both for the fish and your sanity!>
Many thanks for your time and consideration,
<No problem, Lisa. Why don't you drop by our forum at bb.wetwebmedia.com as well; many knowledgeable people there who would no doubt be happy to answer setup questions, product questions, etc as you continue on this odyssey>
Lisa
<Benjamin>

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