Accidental Death or Coincidence? Aquarist-genic. Goldfish, env., nutr. dis.  -- 02/19/09 Hey everyone, I hope all is great. I have a 29 gallon tank, with a 2" fan-tail goldfish, red wag platy, and 2-2" killifish. <... not a compatible mix> All water parameters including ammonia are at acceptable levels, temp is at a consistent 77 degrees F, <A bit high for the Goldfish to be in constantly> filtration is superb, and I syphon my gravel once weekly including a 25%-33% water change. Nutrition is mini floating pellets complete formula, with occasional flake food. <... need other food than dried> I have had my livestock disease free for nearly 12 months, and I'm confused about what happened to my fan-tail. My situation started 3 weeks ago when I noticed my normally cheery fan-tail laying lethargically on the bottom. I confined her to a hospital tank which was really a flat bottom 5"L x 7"W x 7"H live bearer trap that allowed 100% normal circulation within the normal tank water. I did this to prevent her from getting sucked on the filter inlet, and to help aid in the long journeys up for air incase she was to weak to swim. <Good thinking> Her swimming habits would be 80% on the bottom and 20% normal swimming in the hospital tank. Within the last 2 weeks of her life I noticed her floating at the top on her side breathing normal but seemingly paralyzed at random times, and then minutes later would swim normally again and go back to the bottom. I assumed this was a case of swim bladder disease, and since there is no real treatment, I put in fungus cure tablets into the tank <? For?> which had claimed to also cure swim bladder disease. <? No. Where did you read, or hear such nonsense?> I also stopped feeding for 3 days in case of impaction or constipation, and then I would only feed her bite sized peas as I heard this could be a remedy. <Good... but too late> Nothing really changed until the last 2 days when I awoke to find her laying on the bottom, but this time on her side, gasping for air, minor case of PopEye, and curved like a bow. Still she managed to swim around (cork-screwy now) and have an appetite. In the last hour before she died, she was laying curled up on her side like a bow, and had a gasp in her gill movements every 4 seconds. I tried on last time to revive her and added a recommended dose of STRESS COAT. <?> Within 5 minutes later she had passed on. My questions are, did I kill her with that STRESS COAT, or was it a coincidence? <The latter> And lastly does this seem like a swim bladder case, or could it be something else? <Can only guess... but likely environmental stress (the temperature) coupled with nutritional deficiency...> I didn't notice anything parasitic, and my other fish are perfectly fine, and all disease free for nearly 12 months. Thanks again. Tim <Agreed that the cause here is/was not pathogenic... But iatrogenic... environmental, nutritional... I encourage you to study the needs of the life you intend to keep... in advance of acquisition. Bob Fenner>
Re: Accidental Death or Coincidence? Aquarist-genic. Goldfish, env., nutr. dis.   2/19/09 Bob, Thanks for the input. Very appreciative. In regards to the "Fungus Cure" I used, Its a JUNGLE LABS product which is a 1 dissolving tablet per 10 gallon treatment which claims to cure cotton mouth, tail/fin rot, septicemia, clamped fins, dropsy, PopEye, Furunculosis, eye cloud, and yes even swim bladder disease printed right on the box( I'm not questioning you, I'm just telling you what un-educated consumers like myself are led to believe by a popular product). <Amazing... am surprised they don't list Eczema and the Common Cold!> Although I thought it was odd to claim to cure swim bladder disease, I tried it out of desperation. On another note, this is a very common product in the USA sold in most pet supply stores. <Yes... our trade (I am actually an individual of long relationship in the industry as well as an earnest consumer) is totally unregulated re such claims> Maybe it's worth informing other mislead consumers like myself that this popular Jungle Labs "Fungus Cure" is wrong to make such claims. <I do agree> I also had my same livestock for nearly 3 years, 12 months disease/illness free. If this goldfish death was due to environmental circumstances, wouldn't it have died years ago? <Mmm, no... a matter of degree... Goldfish, kept under ideal conditions can live for twenty or so years... Most, kept in less ideal settings, persist for days to weeks or more> Thanks Bob. Tim <Thank you for sharing Tim. BobF>

Battling Ich and Septicemia Re: goldfish - using antibiotic and antifungal simultaneously  - 04/15/06 Dear WetWebMedia Crew, I have two fish with severe Ick and also early stage hemorrhagic septicemia (possibly due to reduced immune system caused by the Ick) <Maybe, but more likely caused by too much organic matter in the system>. I have bought an Ick treatment and also an anti internal bacteria treatment. They are both from the same company (Interpet) and no ingredient list is given with them. <Return or throw away. Don't need or want them> It warns that the Ick treatment contains formaldehyde and methanol (and I suspect Methylene blue also due to the blue colour and staining warnings). No such warnings are given with the antibiotic which is colourless. There is no specific information in the booklet about whether these products are compatible and Interpet appear not to have a website. Can you please give me some advice on whether I should use these treatments can be used together, and if not advise me on a course of action (i.e. which problem to treat for first). Thank you very much, Lewis. <Lets treat both at once. It would be helpful to know what species of fish we are dealing with here, but the vast majority of FW fish can tolerate this approach. You will need aquarium salt (and a scale to weigh out the proper dose), heat, a few buckets and a gravel vac. Start with a big 50% water change using the gravel vac to get as much of the organic matter out of the system as possible. Then measure out 76 grams of salt per 10 gallons of water. Put the salt in a jar, fill with tank water and shake to dissolve as much as possible. Pour the brine (only) into the tank, then refill the jar with more tank water. Repeat over the course of a day or two until all the salt has been added. Then crank up the temp to around 86 degrees. Now comes the fun part. You will need to do water changes daily, always with the gravel vac, replacing the water with water salted to the same concentration. It's best to dissolve the salt in the water before adding to the tank, therefore the need for a few buckets. The heat will speed up the Ich lifecycle and clear your fish in a few days. The salt will kill the parasites in their free swimming stage and stop reinfection. The water changes will reduce the organics in the system and allow the fish to fight off the septicemia. I would not use an antibiotic. They tend to kill off the good bacteria in the tank that control your water quality. If the septicemia does not improve then the fish must be moved to a QT tank for treatment. You should never treat in the main. A sick fish in bad water is not a good thing. You can lower the temp a bit when the Ich clears the fish, but keep the salt in the water for at least two weeks after the last spot drops. You can reduce the water changes when you see the septicemia improving. This approach is a sure fire way to remove Ich from your system. Unless reintroduced you will never see a spot again. Keeping up with water changes, always siphoning with a gravel vac, will greatly reduce the chance of seeing the septicemia again. Good luck. Don>  

Koi Fungus Problem  9/11/05 We recently moved my son's fish, a butterfly Koi and a comet goldfish, to a 20 gallon tank after they'd outgrown their 10 gallon tank.   <Still way too small...> Soon after the move, I noticed both fish appeared to have Ick, and the Koi had some small cottony tufts growing on its tail.  We've had these fish for several years now, and they have grown from about 1 inch to about 6 inches and are very beautiful.  Both are eating and acting fairly normal.  The Koi seems a little nervous and more active than usual. I researched what was growing on the Koi, and also asked the owner of my local pet shop, where they specialize in aquarium fish, what to use to treat the tank.  She recommended Maracide for the Ich and MarOxy for the fungus. <Good... safe and effective choices> I've followed the directions on both bottles, but my question is do I continue to treat with MarOxy for a full five days?   <Yes> Or do give the first treatment and wait to see what happens, then treat if the problem doesn't clear up.  The instructions weren't clear stating that treatment should continue for up to five days.    I don't want to inadvertently kill the fish by trying to cure them.  I also read that Maracyn should be used when treating for fungus.  Should I do this? <You could, will mix... but not likely necessary.> These may be beginner questions, but our fish have never really gotten ill before. Thanks, Vicki <The root/causes of this apparent disease are environmental, not pathogenic... Bob Fenner>