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FAQs on Marine pH, Alkalinity 8
Related Articles: pH, Alkalinity,
Marine Alkalinity, Synthetic or Natural
Seawater, Water Changes/Changing,
Understanding Calcium & Alkalinity,
The Use of Kalkwasser by Russell Schultz,
Related FAQs: Marine pH/ Alkalinity 1,
Marine pH/ Alkalinity 2. Marine
pH/Alkalinity 3, Marine pH 4, Marine
pH 5, Marine
pH 6, Marine pH 7,
& FAQs on: The Science of Alkalinity,
Importance, Measure,
Sources, Use of Additives/Buffers, Troubleshooting/Fixing,
Products by Name:
& FAQs on pH: Importance,
Science, pH Measure/Test Gear,
pH Controllers & pH Buffers/Buffering, pH
Anomalies (Troubleshooting/Fixing),
& pH Products by Name, Manufacturer, &
FAQs on: The Science of Calcium & Alkalinity,
Importance, Measure,
Sources, Use of Additives, Troubleshooting/Fixing,
Products, | 
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urgent help... SW, pH, reading 9/18/09
Hello,
long time no talk..
<Mmmm>
I just bought an expensive broom-tail
wrasse the other day. I have my 120 gallon maintained by what are
supposed to be professionals. He was lying down a lot first day i
thought, ok, he's getting adjusted, big fish around 12-inches new
environment.
<This fish, as an individual, species is too large for
this volume>
2nd day same thing more or less. He was active at the
store, so i knew 2 days of this was weird (I acclimated him properly,
for an hour with a drip in a bucket by the way)
<... no quarantine>
I tested my Ph, it was around 7!
<!>
So much for the professional
maintenance! I boosted Ph, and he's looking weak. Hopefully he makes it,
any advice before its too late?
Thanks,
Sam
P.S. the Ph booster
says it doesn't shock the fish when treating so...
<Read... on
WWM... re pH, alkalinity. I have no idea what you used, how much you
elevated the pH, but this needs to be done slowly... like 0.1 point a
day maximum... through water changes... Bob Fenner>
High Range PH, reading 6/27/08
I have a 65 gallon
tanks with various fish and corals, change the water weekly, and test
weekly also. Just did a water change and all tests are fine except my
Calcium is at 380, should be 400, added a capful to help it come up.
<Don't worry here... this diff. makes very little diff...>
Problem is
the High Range pH, I read your article but I am be concerned for no
reason. It said that 7 up was ok
<?>
but my test kit suggests 8.0
to 8.2,
<Mmm, yes...>
today it was at 7.8
Is this reason for
concern and if so how do I bring it up.
Marilee
<... read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/index.htm
scroll down to
pH, alkalinity, calcium... RMF>
Judgment question on changing pH... Umm, no... more basal questions
re human motivation, thinking/learning processes. Mis-stocked
system, iatrogenic errors/problems 4/16/08
Hello
WWM Crew,
<Jason>
I have been extensively reading here at WWM
and learned a lot, so thanks for all of the great work. I have a
100g marine FOWLR tank with three triggerfish (Undulated, Niger,
Pink Tail) and one moray eel (Chain).
<... troubles>
I realize
the conflict issues with having other fish with the Undulated, but
I've decided to take the risk. The tank has been up and running for
about 6 weeks now with no issues, aside from an arrow crab that
ended up breakfast for the triggers (I figured it was worth a try)
and a snowflake eel that escaped (the side of the lid with the
heater and pump now has a custom cardboard cutout taped down).
<... I do hope not to be reincarnated...>
After all that reading
I've come to the conclusion that sometimes trying to adjust the pH
is more trouble than it's worth.
<Okay...>
My current pH is
7.7 - 7.8 according to the LFS and my API 5 in 1 test strips.
<Not accurate>
All other numbers are good, KH is just under 300
(I have a piece of coral that seems to keep the Ca levels up). Alk
is around 10. From what I can find, the triggers pH range starts at
around 8.1 - 8.2. Should I even bother trying to raise the pH?
<Mmm, a larger issue than this... Should you attempt to keep them
period? Depending on what gear you're employing, there is much more
than pH that will need to be addressed in such a small volume... Re
the pH by itself, yes to reading, understanding the relationship
twixt it as a static reading and alkalinity/alkaline reserve as a
driver, sustainer of pH... though it's not really the issue here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and the linked files above>
That leads me to my second (and less important) question. Sometimes
the triggers (mostly the Undulated) swim around hitting the live
rock.
<Very bad behavior>
I'm pretty sure it's not a disease
as they are showing no symptoms. I think they're just being
aggressive and checking which rocks they can move at their current
size. I was wondering if it's because of stress or just typical
trigger behavior?
<Is symptomatic of real trouble here.
Behavioral and physiological. You seriously need to examine your own
psychological profile as an aquarist, perhaps more here... What is
it you intend by jamming all this incompatible life together in such
a small, unsuitable volume? Really. Do you understand what I'm
stating here? Know yourself, then go out an act in the world... What
you currently have is untenable. Won't work... Re-read on WWM re the
Systems, Compatibility of what you have crammed together here...
Trade, give most of it away. Formulate a work-able stocking plan.
Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the insight,
Jason |
Re: Judgment questions on changing pH 4/16/08
Hello WWM Crew,
<Hello>
First of all, thank you for responding to my e-mail. I'm
writing in again because I don't feel like my question was answered.
The more info I provided the more the response drifted away from my
main question so I'll be direct. My Local Fish Store (not sure how
you determined they're wrong) says my pH is consistent at 7.7 - 7.8
and the fish in my take need a minimum pH of 8.1 - 8.2. I understand
the relationship between pH and Alk, as I said I've done much
research. Question: should I attempt to raise the pH to within the
range of the fish?
<Yes, these are not freshwater fish which will
tolerate a certain amount of variance in pH. Marine fish do not have
this ability, they are adapted to live in the stable pH environment
of the ocean. This pH change does still need to be done slowly
though.>
Now that I've directly asked my main question and
hopefully receive a direct answer, I'm going to take a second to
respond to a few of your points. I have had a successful trigger
tank with a Niger, Picasso and one Arrow Crab so I did have reason
to believe the crab could work.
<Evidence would seem to indicate
otherwise.>
I knew eels are escape artists so I did put effort
into keeping the snowflake in the tank but he was more resourceful
than I expected. There was no intent to harm the animals. I'm not
sure why my 'psychological profile' was brought up but I believe the
WWM staff are professionals so I'm not going to take that digression
personally.
<Well, you are asking these creatures to go against
their nature. Its thousands of years of stimulus/response here, and
not likely to change.>
I put the Pink Tail in the tank first,
than the Niger, followed by the Undulated so by order of
aggressiveness and size and the time they've had to settle in it
should minimize the conflict as much as possible. If any of the
triggers start to get beat up I will definitely be trading them in
to ease the stress in the tank, but that isn't happening now.
<Will happen, I am guessing the niger first, the pink tail, the
Undulated should be the last.>
I am anticipating eventually
having to give up either the Niger or Pink Tail as they grow.
<Both, but by the time you realize it is time to get rid of them the
damage will be done, behavioral and physical damage will already
have occurred.>
The Pink Tail and the Niger get along fine.
<Not really, just their fear of the Undulated is probably
distracting them.>
All of the Triggers get along with the Eel.
The Undulated stays by himself most of the time.
<Big dog
doesn't hide behind other fish.>
I also have much live rock with
many caves and hiding spaces for them and I keep them well fed.
<At some point the weakest of the triggers will no longer be allowed
to feed, then the next weakest, then perhaps the eel assuming the
Undulated is the last one left.>
I understand what you are saying
but I also understand every situation is different. If the consensus
is this setup is impossible, please advise on what could work. In
order of what I want to keep it goes: 1) Undulated, 2) Moray Eel, 3)
Niger, 4) Pink Tail.
<One trigger and the Eel, although an
Undulated Trigger may still decide to sample an eel. Basically your
tank is not sustainable as currently stocked.>
<Chris><< and
thank you Chris... for this further resp. My BP can't handle much
more. RMF>> |
Understanding pH And dKH 1/10/08
Need some advice ? 125 gallon
reef running almost 2 years, 25 gallon sump, skimmer, ~ 120 lbs. live
rock, 10000K MH outer orbit with blue actinic compact fluorescent
lighting. Phosphates 0, Nitrate 0, Nitrite 0, ammonia between 0 and .25,
SG 1.025. calcium 440. I do a 6 gallon water change every week (not
ro/di),? well water aerated and mixed day before).
<Have you ever had
this water tested for alkalinity, pH, and total dissolved solids?> Tank
has Flame Angel, Yellow Tang, male Anthias, 4 reef
Chromis, 2 clown
fish, 5 spawning Peppermint Shrimp, nice amount of copepods and worms, a
few crabs, snails, mushrooms, Torch Coral, a few zoos, Pulsing Xenia,
Colt Coral, some cool sponges popping up once in a while. I've also
noticed my snails are not laying eggs like they used to. My issue is
with pH and dKH. My pH is 8.8+ by the end of the week and my dKH is
around 6. I recently started adding baking soda (~ 1 t per 20 gallons),
added to sump early morning before lights go on. When I check pH and dKH
they are in acceptable ranges. pH 8.4 and dKH 11.
Within 3 days of
re-testing, pH and dKH were off again (ph 8.6 (on the rise) and DKH back
to 6. I did more baking soda and tested. ? pH and dKH were in acceptable
range (8.2 and 11). I haven't tested again yet. I have seen lots of
information on raising pH, but I seem to have the opposite problem.
First off, I'm stressing that the constant big swing in the pH and dKH
are not a good thing. Is it safe to keep adding baking soda and if so,
looks like I may need to do it twice a week, or what would be another
method to help control. The calcium seems not to move too much one way
or another, is this because the water is not buffered correctly?
<Stop using baking soda for a while, see if you dKH/pH isn't more
stable. Adding baking soda is just raising your dKH/carbonate levels.>
I'm wondering with the amount of coral I have in the tank, should the
calcium be used up or is the 6 gallon weekly changes supplementing
enough to keep the calcium to 440, or am I not buffered correctly so the
calcium isn't being used at all?
<The dKH levels you are averaging
shouldn't be causing any calcium precipitation.>
Wouldn't skimming
somewhat deplete the calcium too?
<Not enough to matter.>
The
corals are growing, but I noticed after adding the baking soda, the
torch coral in particular really opened up nicely. Should I do larger
water changes?
<Ten percent every couple of weeks is fine.>
Any
help much appreciated.
<I'm thinking the use of unfiltered well water
may be aiding the problem if it is loaded with minerals. Do run some
tests on it if you haven't done so already, most pure water shops can
test for TDS. Do you filter the well water with any chemical media
before mixing the salt for water changes? Also, let's read the links
posted here for a better understanding of pH, dKH, and calcium.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
Love the site.
<Thank you.
James (Salty Dog)>
pH Concerns 10/27/07
Dear Crew,
<Josh>
I love your website
and I am so grateful that you are there. You folks make all the
difference for us aquarists.
<Thank you and glad you enjoy/learn.>
My setup is as follows;
70 gallon tank
Sump
5 inches sugar fine
aragonite
90# Live Rock
Euro Reef Skimmer
I Currently have 3
damsels and am awaiting the delivery of my detritivores.
SG 1.024
dKH 9
Calcium 440 ppm
To overcome environmental conditions within
my home I installed an exhaust fan. It has helped by bringing the avg pH
up from 7.9 to 8.1
With a window open and exhaust fan running, pH
fluctuates between 8.11 - 8.18.
After adding C Balance my pH tops out
at 8.25 and then comes back down gradually to 8.18. On the overnight the
pH goes back down to the 8.11.
As you know, my average pH is close
but still below the recommended parameters. I have been dosing part A
and B of the C balance at 30 ml per day. I usually wait about an hour
between Part A and B.
In effort to increase my pH, Should I add more
C balance? Should I be dosing with Kalkwasser? Should I not be
concerned? I would appreciate your thoughts.
<I would not be
concerned. With your 8.11 reading, I have to believe you are using an
electronic pH measuring device. Some of these devices only have a
accuracy of +/- .2 which could give you slightly inaccurate reads. Your
pH is fine, no worries. James (Salty Dog)>
Thank you for your time.
<You're welcome.>
Josh
pH And Alkalinity 10/22/07
Hi,
<Hello>
I was wondering
how my pH could be low and my alkalinity could be really high? Also,
do these numbers effect <affect> fish? Starfish? What about hermit
crabs and turbo snails?
<It can affect fish, and especially
starfish. Read here and linked files above for a better
understanding of pH and alkalinity.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
Re: ph and alkalinity
10/23/07
Thanks for the link.
<You're welcome.>
I'm
still unsure if a really high alkalinity is harmful if the pH is
good. If so, how can I bring down the alkalinity while maintaining
the good ph?
<You do not say what your alkalinity really is.
What's too high, what is the reading from your test kit?
James
(Salty Dog)>
Re: pH And Alkalinity 10/23/07
I'm new to the whole thing,
but I think it is 9 meg/l. The high end was supposed to be 4-5
meg/l.
<Wowsie, something has to be wrong with the test kit or
test methods as this relates to about 25 dkH.
Have you added any
alkalinity buffers in this system? Do read the instructions for the
test kit and make sure you didn't add too much/too little of the
reagent, make sure the test was done properly. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: pH And Alkalinity 10/24/07
I added baking soda when my ph
was low.
<Do not any more buffering agents. The dkH will slowly
drop in time, do monitor weekly. Your high dkH shouldn't harm any of
the inhabitants, but will it will do is keep your calcium level from
rising which is not beneficial for SPS/LPS corals. I try to keep my
dkH around 8-9, I seem to get the most out of calcium supplements in
that regard. If you multiply you meq/l reading by 2.8, it will give
you the dkH equivalent. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: pH And Alkalinity 10/24/07
My alkalinity has been testing
high with two different kits even before I added baking soda for the
ph problem. I am still trying to cycle the tank. As I said, I'm new
to this hobby. This being the case I added fish way to early. My
damsels and clown fish seem to be doing well. My chocolate chip
starfish is not. It was doing fine for a week and a half. Things
changed when I did a 20% water change. I brought the sg down from
1.026 to 1.024. Now I don't know if the starfish is having problems
because of the salinity change, cycling of the tank, or high
alkalinity.
<I'm guessing yes. Starfish are very sensitive to
changes in s.g. and pH. One thing to keep in mind is that, never
expose the starfish to air, this can/will cause more problems.
Do
read here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i4/echinoderms/echinoderms.htm
James (Salty Dog)>
Re: pH And Alkalinity 10/25/07 What are SPS/LPS?
Thanks,
<You're welcome.>
What are SPS/LPS?
<Well now I know you do
not have a reef tank. SPS/LPS are acronyms for short polyp and long
polyp stony corals.>
Also, is the white residue on my tank from
calcium deposited from high dKH?
<More than likely. James (Salty
Dog)> |
Saltwater chemistry, pH and Alk.
- 7/20/07
Dear Crew,
Please let me extend my thanks for being
there for us.
<:)>
I am currently seeking some guidance/advice.
I have had a 10 gallon tank set up for a while. I have one damsel, 5# of
live rock and a small piece of start polyps (Yes I am aware of the
susceptibility to change of a small tank. I have kept marine tanks for
years.) I keep a close watch on evaporation and water change about 1.5
gals/week.
I have never closely monitored pH and alkalinity before.
I have always relied on water changes to keep things balanced. I know
that this is a bit cavalier but it worked.
My goal at this point is
to get a better handle on ?water chemistry? before I dabble into a
larger reef setup.
I finally have a pH meter on the tank. I do
calibrate it frequently. No matter what I do, I cannot seem to get my ph
to stay above 7.79.
After I do a water change the pH reads 7.85 and
then starts to drop. (I do keep an airstone in my mix water and also one
in the tank). When I add Kalkwasser it shoots up and then comes back
down, usually settling at around 7.74. For a while I was trying to push
my alkalinity up with buffer but have ceased this activity as the polyps
stopped opening after readings of 7 dKH.
<I highly doubt your star
polyps stopped opening because of the alkalinity change.>
(When I say
push my alkalinity I am talking about cautious additions; ¼ tsp. of
SeaBuffer every couple of days).
<That's a good method and pace for
raising alkalinity. You could also just use 1/4 tsp baking soda or
washing soda.>
Following a calibration of my meter I get the
following readings.
The Ro/di water starts at 6.1 pH.
I mix salt
to 1.021 and the I get the following,
<Your salinity is too low. For
reef tanks, salinity should be right around 1.025 to 1.026.>
pH 7.60
Alk 5 dKH
<also too low>
In the tank, After daily additions of
Kalkwasser;
pH 7.7
dKH 6
Additionally, coralline algae has been
in decline no matter what I attempt.
I am anxious to hear your
ideas/suggestions.
<Well, you probably already know this, but you
need to raise your alkalinity. I also suspect that your inside air might
have a high concentration of CO2. About the only practical thing you can
do for this is to keep using Kalk and raise your alkalinity (in your
case I'd try to make it closer to 9dkh). You should also raise your
salinity.>
Should I add anything to my make up water to sustain the
weekly pH gain due to my Kalkwasser additions?
<Raising your
alkalinity will help the tank retain the pH achieved with the Kalk.>
Thanks .
Josh
<No problem. Good luck. :-)
Sara M.>
pH Issues…The Need For More “Understanding” – 07/01/07
Hello,
<<Greetings>>
In a previous email, I was recently advised regarding
my Nitrate problems and want to say thanks for the help.
<<Don’t know
who this was, but am sure you are most welcome>>
My Nitrate is around
20-30 ppm and improving each time I check.
<<Ah good, but still a
ways to go>>
It is easy for me to maintain now with partial water
changes...that darn wet/dry was the culprit.
<<These devices serve a
purpose, but I agree this is often the case>>
Anyhow, my next and
maybe even more important problem is my pH levels.
<<Oh?>>
It is
always low.
<<Mmm…>>
I use RO/DI water with Red Sea or Oceanic
salt.
<<I would use a better/more consistent mix…perhaps Seachem…or
Tropic Marin if you can afford such>>
Recently, I've been using Kent
Marine "Liquid Calcium Reactor" for buffering new water added, but not
the whole main tank though.
<<Again, I suggest you abandon this
product and try one actually formulated to boost/maintain pH. Seachem’s
Reef Buffer is such a product. (are we starting to see a trend here?
[grin])>>
I have even added small amounts of baking soda, (about 3
teaspoons dissolved at one time) but this does not seem to be helping.
<<The Sodium Bicarbonate will help bolster Alkalinity but really does
little for boosting pH; it contains CO2 as a byproduct of its
manufacture. I’ve even seen pH fall from the addition of large amounts
of Baking Soda. Driving-out the CO2 from the Baking Soda will render
Sodium Carbonate, which “will” raise pH but requires careful use not to
overdue. If you wish to give this a try…spread the Baking Soda on a
cookie sheet and “bake” in the oven at 300-degrees F for about an hour.
Or save yourself the time and possible grief and use the Seachem
product. I’ve found you can even save a little money by mixing Baking
Soda with the Reef Buffer on a 3 to 1 ratio and still attain
satisfactory results>>
I try to be cautious to change things in a
slow manner, not abruptly.
<<Sage advice in most instances>>
My
tank is a 160-gallon FOWLR tank with about 19 small to medium fishes,
120-lbs of live rock, and around a 4-inch aragonite sand bed. Last but
not least, just before writing I took a pH reading of around 7.4 and a
9.6 dKH on alkalinity/hardness.
<<Hmm…how are you measuring pH
(meter, test kit, strips)? I would validate this test as I think a true
pH of 7.4 would be having a deleterious effect on your fishes>>
I
think my buffering is ok, but not the pH, obviously.
<<Maybe, maybe
not…validate that test with another/newer test kits or a borrowed
meter>>
Is there anything you can suggest based upon this
information?
<<As already stated>>
This is a new area for me.
<<Ah yes, well…you need a bit more understanding of the topic. Start
reading here and among the links in blue:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm >>
Let me know if you need
any more information.
Have a nice day.
Christopher
<<And you as
well. EricR>>
PH<ALK<CAL – 06/28/07
OK, so I am writing again because, well
frankly you guys give the best advice!!
<Hello again Matt!>
I am
now having issues with my parameters according to what I am reading and
observing in my tank. I have what I thought was a well established 24G
NANO (please don't frown!). However, my corals are just not doing well,
losing some critters and coralline dying. SO, I went to my LFS, where I
purchase all of my tank critters, LR, etc...they directed me to purchase
Strontium, and the B-Ionic calcium buffer component (one is ALK one is
Calcium). I was adding Purple up since day one to supplement the
calcium, they said it was only an enhancer, not 100% calcium. Not
problem...I also bought and ALK tester...The guy said "your reef tank
should be right around 3.5 mEq/L. It was exactly that the first few
days, so I did not add the B-Ionic supplement as it is there to bring
the ALK up, correct?
<YES!!! Do NOT dose Alk supplement unless Alk
test drops below 3.0meq/l. Calcium is fine at 400ppm. PH is not as big
of a concern and will naturally fluctuate, Just avoid extremes. If alk
is in normal range and calcium is 400ppm then pH will be fine.>
However, now today(June27th) my ALK has gone up to 4.5mEq/L. What is
supposed to be?? I thought if the PH and calcium are good, the ALK will
follow.
<Do not buffer pH directly, let the calcium carbonates in the
system do it for you.>
I have been adding the calcium and it is at
400ppm, I was told around 450ppm is good (which is where it normally
is). I add the Strontium once a week per the bottle, and iodine
everyday(2 drops). Water changes with Nutri -Sea Water, no mixing needed
and it is what I started the tank off with, but switched a few months
ago. I have gone back to it. PH is at 8.2, Phosphates at 0, nitrates 0,
Temp 77.5...Any advice is always appreciate as usual!
<Keep up on the
water changes and make sure that tests are run on the source water for
make up (evap) so that you are not adding unwanted nutrients to the
system. Let the tank adjust back to the Nutri-system brand salt. Order a
quality phosphate test kit so that you are sure of the readings. Let's
give the Nutri-system 30 days to improve things and remember to change
the water(10gallons) once a week for that time period. Keep us informed
of progress!>
Thanks,
Matt
<Rich aka MR. Firemouth>
Ph went way down 6/9/07
Good Afternoon,
I have read a
lot about adjusting PH on your website but afraid to change things too
drastically. I have a 75 Gallon Saltwater Tank. Live sand, live rock,
corals ranging from polyps, frogspawn, mushrooms, Kenya tree, Alveopora,
Goniopora, pearl bubble, leather, zoanthids etc. Also have a yellow
tang, blue hippo tang (both small) one damsel, coral beauty, dragonet
and two clown fish. One sand sifter starfish, cleaner shrimp, peppermint
shrimp, lots of snails and hermit crabs. So far they are all doing great
and thriving.
My dilemma is that my PH dropped to 7.4 at night and
is only showing 7.8 during the day which is too low.
<Yes... think
about the inputs here... bio-mass/metabolism, foods... their reductive
effects... and the countervailing alkalinity/components of your
seawater, calcareous substrate/s... and measures such as skimming,
ozonation, water changes... the net result? A reductive environment...>
I was told not to use Proper PH 8.2 as it may not change it due to the
alkalinity being way up there.
<... My friend... Please... Read...
Don't "just pour something in" w/o understanding where you are, how you
got there, what you're doing>
Instead I am beginning to use Kent
Marine Tech CB Calcium Buffer Part A only as I was told that adding this
daily may adjust the PH more gradually. My biggest concern is that I
don't harm any of the corals, fish or invertebrates in the tank. They
all seem to be thriving right now, all get along and my other chemical
readings are showing in good limits. Just PH and alkalinity seem off.
Any advice you can give me would be highly appreciated. Tank has been up
and running for 18 months. Most things in the tank have been in there
over a year. I was doing water changes every two to three weeks but now
am beginning to do them weekly. Have some problem with red algae and
yesterday cleaned off the rocks with a brush and netted all floating
material. The tank looks beautiful today but know with the PH being so
low per what I have read will harm the fish and the corals so want to
make sure I am headed in the right direction.
Thank you for any
assistance you can give me in this matter.
<Start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm
Maint., pH, Alkalinity...
Bob Fenner> pH and Alkalinity, Important Topics...With Much
To Read And Comprehend - 04/27/07
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I've
reviewed your site for more info, but still am confused.
<<Ok>>
I set up a 90-gallon tank with live rock and sand from another tank (55
gallon). Lost a French angel and a maculosus angel in a couple of days.
<<Mmm, aside from the fact this tank is too small for these two fishes,
if you did not allow the new tank to cycle the presence/build-up of
nitrogenous compounds likely killed the angels>>
The pH was 7.7 and
other parameters were fine (including the alkalinity).
<<Even
so...it is likely a high organics load was/is suppressing the pH...and
is reaching "toxic" proportions with the addition of fish>>
I
corrected the pH to 8.3, bought a damsel, the next day the fish was
dead, pH 7.7 with a some ammonia present (alkalinity was fine).
<<Well there you go...please do stop placing fish in this system until
it has had time to cycle/stabilize>>
I've never had this problem
before with switching tanks, and don't know what is killing the fish.
<<Many folks make the same claim...but I always suggest letting a new
setup cycle/balance for a week or so even when established from a
previously mature system and even if initial testing seems to indicate
all is well. It is likely you had some die-off occur in the transfer
and the system is not ready to handle this and the additional bio-load
of introduced fishes>>
I'm not sure when the pH is lethal. Is this
killing the fish?
<<Not on its own, but in concert with...>>
If
it is, how can the pH swing when the alkalinity is fine? This is
confusing.
<<Though there is somewhat of a "relationship" between
the two (and all aquarists have a need and obligation to "learn" about
the relationships and functions of the essential earth
elements/bio-minerals that make up their systems and how these affect
the balance/livestock/suitability/et al), alkalinity is not an
indication of pH and vise-versa. Please have a look here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm)
and do follow/read among the links at the top of the pages...much more
to absorb/comprehend than can be passed here>>
Thanks in advance.
pH Balanced for a...(rock, but strong enough for a fish?) 3/21/07
Hey guys,
<And gals...
Greetings to you, Adam.>
I really
appreciate the Q&A section you have set up.
Really
very helpful.
<Is what we shoot for, thanks you for the props.
Hobbyists need a place to sift through everything they read/hear/are
told.>
Ok question is this: I just set up my new tank, 24 gal
saltwater, 40lbs live sand, 25lbs cured live rock. It's been running
for 2 weeks now with no sign of any ammonia or nitrite spike so I am
still waiting to add my clown, brittle star, and frogspawn from my old
tank.
<Ok, possible that the cured live rock and sand
has cycled the system for you. Have you tested for nitrates?>
My PH
has tested at 7.8 and I wish to raise it up and keep it up.
<A worthy cause.>
Is there a preference to Kent Marine Superbuffer
or SeaChem's buffer product? If so, why the preference?
<Hmm, product research is something I personally leave to the individual
aquarist. But here is some reading for you:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mphprods.htm
Read to the bottom and
every link in blue up above. Pay attention to the links that appear on
each new page, because the cross-referenced links are very useful too.>
Is it important for me to raise my PH at this point or will it raise
with my weekly water changes?
<Mmm, at two weeks, I wouldn't be
concerned with a 7.8 pH yet. When you get some photosynthetic life forms
in there; i.e.., algae, then you'll have a daily rise/fall in pH due to
the production/metabolized carbon dioxide. They produce O2 by day, and
CO2 by night. Also something to consider: you don't need lights on right
now, as this may fuel a nuisance algae-bloom before you are inclined to
deal with one.>
If I do begin to use a buffer product, will I need
to use it on a regular basis?
<Only as your tests tell you that you
need to. I find that a salt worth its "salt" is good at buffering when
you do your water changes regularly. In addition to your pH test kit,
you will want to invest in a carbonate hardness test kit. You will see
why when you read the link above.>
I really don't want to use
a product which will make my tank reliant upon that product.
<Good thinking. I like to use the least amount of supplementation that I
can get by with.
-GrahamT>
Thank you
so much,
ADAM Re: Ph problems.... 1/28/07
2 Astraea
snails
2 Chestnut turbo snails (Turbo castanea)
2 Dwarf red
hermits
2 Peppermint shrimp
"A bit much on the snails for this
volume of tank."
Agreed for a 10g. I originally had only the
Astreas, but they weren't making a dent in the algae, which itself was
not very heavy at all.
<Well as long as you are aware of the long
term effects, personally I think the "human" cleaning crew can be much
more effective when dealing small amounts of algae...there are other
factors to consider as well including nutrient build up (doesn't take
long in such a small tank), water flow, and photoperiod....>
The
Chestnuts, which are smaller than traditional Turbos, are doing much
better. If there seems to not be enough algae to keep them fed, I may
take a couple back to the LFS.
"Kemp...this should answer all if not
most of your questions; let me know if you need more detail:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nanoreefsysart.htm ."
Yes, been
there, done that already
<Okay....relax.>
, and I still have the
questions indicated. I'll keep reading, but if you can help with this
particular question, which has me most perplexed, I would be grateful:
Issue Two: Water quality is good overall so far, but for some reason
>there is a pH/alk problem. My parameters are consistently:
- SG =
1.023
- Temp = 78-80 deg. F
- NH3/4 = 0
- NO2 = 0
- NO3
= 0+ (barely detectable)
- Ca = 300mg
- KH = 170 mg/L ( = 3.4
meq/L, = 9.5 dKH)
- PO4 = 0
Here's the interesting part:
-
pH = 7.9
I can't figure out why my pH is 7.9. It appears that it's
not the water because I am using RO, and my RO tests at KH < 20 mg/L,
GH 20 mg/L, Ca < 20 mg/L. It is not a function of the tank environment
because the salt mix (Instant Ocean) mixes to 7.9 in an empty, open top
bucket. It appears that it is not a CO2/O2 issue because I have mixed
the salt both inside the house and outside on the porch and it is the
same. Plus, my house is poorly insulated and, being that it is winter in
Florida, we have the windows open a lot. It appears that it is not an
aeration issue because the pH is stable at 7.9 within an hour of mixing,
<If the Ph is this low at mixing, I would point to he source
water, have you tested it? What source water are you using? It sounds
like the alkaline reserve of the source water is very low....it may need
to be pre-buffered.>
still stable after mixing for 24 hours, and
stable in the tank. I am using an open egg crate diffuser cover on my
tank.
The only other variable I can think of is the test kit (Hagen
- expires 2010). It is a wide range kit, and it is a bit difficult to
read, though I am confident it is reading slightly below 8.0. I am
purchasing a new narrow-range kit just to make sure. Any suggestions?
What could I be missing?
<Would not hurt to confirm the readings
with an LFS or friend either.>
Thanks again, this is a wonderful
service to the aquarium community.
<Anytime.>
Kemp
<Adam J.>
Reeeaaallly low ph 1/14/07
<Hello
Jennifer, Mich here.>
Need emergency HELP! Got a 55 gal
saltwater. Right now fish are in a QT due to ich. So just inverts,
CBS, 2 porcelain crabs, 3 hermits, 1 green crab and some limpets. All
crabs and shrimp seem ok, but limpets haven't been moving, but not
dead...yet.
<Monty Python fan?>
I checked water and ph was at
6.5....
<Yikes! If you don't have a pH buffer, add some Sodium
Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) at a rate of a teaspoon per 20 gallons.>
I
just did my weekly water change (2.5 gal) with water I get from a LFS.
I've been using their water for 3 weeks now. Other info you may
need...I've been adding Kent Liquid Calcium as instructed, also Lugo's
iodine as instructed.
<Are you testing for the supplements you are
adding?>
The tank is only 3 months old. The ph in my QT is 8.3
(saltwater I make everyday and change out) so could it be their water?
<Yes. Have you been buffering the water you use in the 55 gallon?
What do I need to add to this to get the ph back to 8.3? Any procedural
info would be very appreciated!!!
<Baking Soda at the very least.>
Thank you...a devoted and daily visitor (drives my husband nuts)
<Welcome! -Mich>
Jennifer
Lighting interference with
pocket pH tester 1/12/06
Belated Happy New Year!
<Thanks>
I thought I would pass on an experience I have had recently
that cost me dearly. I bought a Milwaukee pH tester, waterproof, very
nice. Next I bought a new Jebo pc fixture with 2 65W half 10000K and
half actinic lamps. This fixture has an external ballast which is very
nice, lighter in weight and easier to hang above the tank.
Now for
the bad part. When I used my new tester on my tanks, I have 2, it read
perfectly, 8.2 to 8.3 on each tank. Before I checked my pH levels again
I bought the new light and was using it. On my smaller tank the pH was
still 8.2 to 8.3 but my big tank was 6.9!! I panicked and got some
buffer and started trying to get the pH up. Nothing was working. I don't
know how much I finally ended up adding but I couldn't get the pH above
7.3.
Hindsight being 20/20, I realize how big a mistake I made and
won't repeat it. But I didn't find out what was the problem until I
tried to show a friend the way the pH tester worked and had it in a cup
of water and turned on. It was reading 7.2 in the cup but when I brought
the cup up to the top of the tank to test the water there the reading
dropped to 5.4! I moved the cup with the tester in it back and forth a
few times and watched the reading go up and down. Finally I turned the
Jebo light off and the reading stayed put. And it tested the same as the
test kit showed.
I never thought about a light fixture interfering
with a tester.
<Mmm... RF... electronics...>
Unfortunately I
didn't learn until after I burned up most everything in my tank with
high pH, 8.8 was the highest it tested. And of course then I started
doing water changes and everything I could think of to bring it back
down. It seemed to take forever to stabilize. I lost all of my 'pods,
some snails, my serpent star, and cleaner shrimp which had gotten so
big. I was heart broken for I don't know how long.
The good news is
that after what has seemed like forever my tank is back healthy. Even my
'pods are back and I have baby Nassarius snails too. They look really
cute in there. I am still dealing with algae problems like a newly
cycled tank but it's getting better.
I am telling all of this to
hopefully keep someone else from having a similar disaster.
Agnes
<Mmm, Please do consider writing Jebo re this interference issue...
Could be very important to their business... especially when the folks
at UL catch up with this part of the trade again. Bob Fenner>
LOW SW pH...HELP!!! 1/10/07
Dear Crew,
<Mark>
Please try to help me figure out what’s happening with my
tank. I’m having problems maintaining my PH levels. I started my reef
tank about 2.5 years ago. I started with a 30gal tank, 20gal sump, and
10gal refugium. For about 10-11 months my PH was maintained at about
8.3, and then started dropping down to about 8.0.
<Very common
occurrence... the readily soluble portions of your substrates (gravel,
LR...) have been exhausted... Part of the reason I suggest periodic
addition, switching out some for new>
So I rearranged my tank, and
did about a 50% water change.
<Will only help temporarily in most
cases>
Everything was good for about another 9 months and my PH
started dropping again. Thinking that I might have gotten lax in my
maintenance, I again did another rearranging and about 50% water change.
Still my PH remained low. So I started raising my buffered top off water
until my DKH hit about 20 (tank DKH stayed about 10-12). I then started
trying Kalkwasser. I was to nervous to use it consistently
<Good>
so I used it 2-3 times a week, either in a drip or slurry method. Still
I couldn’t maintain my PH around 8.3. Then I got a new 65gal. tank and
my 30gal became my refugium.
<Very good>
I added some more LR,
4” DSB (in main tank, and 6” in refugium). I’ve done a lot of research
on Kalkwasser and Alkalinity. I have switched salts from Instant Ocean
to SeaChem in order to keep Calcium levels up.
<Mmm, both fine
products in this and other regards>
I have now been dripping
Kalkwasser 24/7
<Mmm... I would not do this...>
at a rate of
about ½ tsp per gallon of water as I don’t need much calcium with the
new salt. My DKH has stayed between 9-10, and I don’t have to add any
buffer. I did this for about 6 weeks with NO (or very little) effect on
PH. I then got a case of ICK, set up a QT tank (had to learn the hard
way) and my tank has been fallow for the last 2 months.
This last
weekend I changed about 25% of my water (about 25gal) and my PH still
remains at 7.8-8.02 (I got a pinpoint monitor for Christmas).
<Another nice tool>
I use RO/di water from my local fish store
always. I will aerate my water with a large air pump for 24 hours, then
buffer to about 8 DKH for 24 hours, then add salt to 1.025 and aerate
for another 24 hours, then do my water change.
After mixing up my
saltwater my PH will be about 8.4 but after about 3-4 hours it drops to
about 8.1 and has no effect on the tanks PH. Also If I don’t use
Kalkwasser and just use SeaChem’s buffers (Marine Buffer, Reef Buffer,
or Reef Builder) it will take about a TBL spoon a day in order to
maintain my DKH between 9-10. I have a large brown polyp colony, a very
large yellow star polyp colony, a small Candy Cane, a med. Anthelia sp,
and an extremely small flower leather that is trying hard to recover,
and also a hairy mushroom. The leather is the only coral that has shown
any ill effects to the low PH. One other thing, I live in an older
mobile home so I have plenty of ventilation, (no carbon build up) as I
have also tried aerating my water outside for about 6 hours with only
about a .01-.02 rise in PH.
So now to my question. What is happening
to my tank and how can I raise my PH.
<Mmm, likely simple reduction,
the water/system tending to go acidic... and... I would not "sweat" a pH
of about 8 ish... Really... if you so desired, you might supplement
(differently) the change-out water... with a product of more carbonate
base... see SeaChem's line here IMO... But... I would likely leave all
as it is. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for your help and thanks for your site.
Mark Struggling To Raise pH - 01/09/07
Hi,
<<Hello!>>
I've got a six-gallon marine tank. Alk, 10 dKH, Ca, 400, pH
8.0-8.1. This is what it stays at with weekly water changes. I
want to raise pH to 8.3-8.4 or 8.5, mainly because of the shrunken
xenia but also for Cyano control.
<<I see>>
The problem is, is
that there doesn't seem to be any room to add B-Ionic or really any
need.
<<Agreed>>
Also, there really isn't enough of a Ca demand
to justify adding limewater.
<<Agreed again>>
The tank also
isn't accumulating too much CO2,
<<You know this how?>>
so I've
ruled out increasing aeration as a solution.
<<But have you tried
it? If your home is new/well sealed, CO2 accumulation may well be
depressing the pH (though really, consistent readings of 8.0-8.1 are not
"bad")>>
I do use deionized water and Tropic Marin salt for water
changes.
<<A good salt...perhaps buffering the water before mixing
in the salt will help. You can try this with simple baking soda (about
a teaspoon per ten gallons of water), but don't expect to get the pH
above 8.3 with this method. Seachem also offers great buffering
products>>
Do you think that switching to Seachem salt mix will get
the pH up to optimal readings?
<<Don't know...I suggest you purchase
a small quantity of the Seachem salt and test it for your desired
result>>
I'm really struggling with this, so any tips or solutions
would be greatly appreciated.
<<In this small tank the Seachem
products are a worthwhile try...and do have a read here and among the
links in blue at the top of the page: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm >>
Thanks, Greg
<<Happy to assist, EricR>> An ongoing disc...
High RedOx, pH in a Service Co. tank 11/26/07
Bob,
<Scott>
Here's quick stats (or at least as quick as they get):
8'x8'x30" 1200g tank
16x16 center overflow
5600gph Tunzes
w/multicontroller for oscillating flow x8
8000 gph closed loop
1200 gph return pump x4
125g sump
75 gallon deep sand bed
refugium x2
UV Sterilizer
Ozonizer x2 (not running)
Korallin
calcium reactor (not running)
AquaC custom EV skimmer w/Iwaki x2
Spectrapure 90gpd RO unit
Auto top off
Aquacontroller III Pro
- Temp Probe
- ORP Probe
- pH Probe
400w HQI PFO Halides x8
160w 6' VHO Actinics x16
PolyFilters
Purigen
50g water changes w/IO salt weekly
SG - 1.024
Ca -
420
Alk - 3.0 meq/L
<A bit low...>
Mg - 1200
Temp -
ranges from 79.0 - 83.2
ORP - ranges from 475 - 500
<Mmm... a
bit high...>
pH - ranges from 8.75 - 8.95
<...High... From?>
No ammonia, nitrites or nitrates detectable The tank is about 2 and half
months since we finished cycling (/we last saw nitrates).
I have
spoken with you previously about the high ORP. You suggested that we
likely had a faulty probe. Due to some (*cough*) user error, this probe
demanded replacement regardless of it's potentially faulty
readings. The new probe however is telling us the exact same thing. So
my question is what would that imply?
<Mmm, that there is an
abundant source or reduction-oxidation potential driving the level to
the upper side... Of the gear, situation you list, the UV is likely the
principal contributor here... this and a dearth/lack of reducing
organisms, activity...>
Our probes are in the overflow - is there
something about that environment that could affect our readings?
<Mmm, yes>
Also, there isn't that much in the tank right
now. There's a few fish, a handful of corals, and a handful of other
assorted invertebrates.
<Ahh... with their addition, you'll very
likely see a reduction... make that a lowering in ORP>
The things
that live, thrive. There are a handful of things that just don't
however and I was hoping for an opinion on why. Just as a prequel - we
did have a few days where the lights got taken off auto and ran for
three days straight and the temp got up to 86.7. We've lost every
acropora we've ever put in there, about 6 large aquacultured specimens
all together now. We lost a Blue Linckia, several Sea Hares, a medium
sized aquacultured Abalone, and a few other assorted critters. Our
encrusting Montiporas don't seem to be doing that great, even the ones
that were put in after the big heat spike.
<Mmm, try turning off the
UV>
The temperature issue is being dealt with. The tank is central
in an orthodontists office, and so all of the equipment is underneath
the stand and generates lots of heat. As long as the cabinets are left
open the temperature stays below 82.0, usually between 80 and 81. But
being that it's an office it's hard to control that, and occasionally
the doors do get closed which is when the temperature rises up to
83.2. Is this small difference enough to slowly take out the SPS
corals?
<Not IMO/E>
There is also this encrusting algae, that I
suppose I should know what it is, but I don't. It's just small brown
spots that grow pretty exclusively on the acrylic, like coralline's ugly
little brother. The spots are very, very tough to get off, and I feel
like I'm destroying the acrylic in my attempts to do so.
<Yikes...
careful here>
We filled the tank up with tap, and now use
exclusively RO.
<Good change>
As we continue to do water changes
(50g/week) will these spots recede?
<Should in time>
I've never
experienced this type of algae in my store, but it's pretty bad in
several of the other tanks that I maintain - and none of those tanks use
RO for their top off. The only other thing these tanks have in common
that I don't, is their more expensive higher quality lighting.
In
another tank in the same office (250g w/good water quality), we have a
Thalassoma wrasse who is doing rather poorly. One day when I came him
and was looking rather "prunish". The skin on his face and head was all
kind of rippled, like he had dried up in the sun. He has since refused
food (to my knowledge) and has lost a ton of weight.
<Genetic
problem/s likely... not amenable>
I was concerned he wasn't eating
the food from the auto-feeder, and wasn't getting enough frozen food
(2x/week) to sustain him but the decline seemed to happen rather quickly
and doesn't explain the wrinkles. I have been adding live SW feeder
shrimp to sustain him in case he's refusing all non-live food but I'm
worried that the problem is not so superficial. Really - all this story
to say - have you have seen anything like this before and if so what was
the cause/solution?
<Cause/s unknown... solution likewise... to my
experience, all such animals perish>
Thanks for your input,
Scott
<Do try amending the alkalinity (simple bicarb., carb.
addition), turn off the UV... see where this situates the RedOx and pH.
Bob Fenner> Raising My pH – 11/16/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hey Ken!>>
Are you still in Hawaii? Hope all is well with you.
<<Yes mate...though my wife and I have to be on a plane back to reality
in less than 8 hours time...bummer. But on a high note, I had a great
dive yesterday morning and a great meal with good friends at a very nice
restaurant on the water’s edge last evening>>
Have some new
questions and some points I wanted to clarify in my mind.
<<Shoot>>
My tank cycled a few days ago. I did about a 40% water change. My
nitrates actually were not that high. They were about 7ppm nitrate
nitrogen before the water change (The one where you have to multiply the
results by 4.4 to convert). I also added two fish, a Sailfin tang and a
yellow tang. I know they are both Zebrasoma, but I figured 90 gallons
with a lot of rock and spaces and put them in on the same day, it would
probably work.
<<Agreed…though it is my opinion that 90 gallons is
much too small for the Sailfin>>
So far they hang out
together. They both ate the same day I put them in the tank. I just
put on the lights yesterday. I decided to wait until after the cycling.
<<Ok>>
So right now, generally speaking, my pH and my
alkalinity/calcium will just be what it is based on premixed salt water
since nothing is taking up the calcium or alkalinity etc.
<<Not at a
high rate anyway>>
In other words, the tank is pretty much "dead"
until I get some reaction on the live rock from my lights, and until I
get waste from the fish.
<<Not true mate…actions/reactions going on
as we speak>>
I want to get the lighting, get the tank stable, and
at least past the diatom stage (if I get that) before I add any hardy
corals.
<<Do expect diatoms, Cyanobacteria, hair algae…all part of
the natural alga succession. As for not adding any “hardy” corals
yet…do consider that the corals use much/many of the same nutrients the
alga will be using…>>
My pH varies from about 8.02 to about 8.08
with no lights.
<<Ok>>
Actually I don't know why, but my pH is
higher when I wake up in the morning than at the end of the day. Isn't
that backwards?
<<Hmm, maybe…is the tank near an open window during
the night? Maybe just a result of reduced respiration of the tank
inhabitants (just a guess)>>
My alkalinity is 11 dKH.
<<Towards
the high end of the desirability scale but likely fine>>
I am not
sure of my calcium, but I'm sure the levels are "normal" at this point.
<<Mmm…without “testing” how can you be “sure”>>
So if my pH is in
the range mentioned above, and my alkalinity level is at 11 dKH, can I
raise my pH without increasing my alkalinity level?
<<Sure…use
sodium bicarbonate…increase water flow within the tank>>
I tested my
premixed saltwater, using Reef Crystals, and the alkalinity is 10 dKH
and my pH is about 8.10 so obviously this is my starting point.
<<Indeed…maybe even consider trying/testing other brands of salt>>
I
have the calcium reactor as you know but I do not have this turned on
presently as there is nothing to really take up the calcium etc, and my
alkalinity is at the high range of acceptable. Obviously I am thinking
the way to raise the pH is either a Kalkwasser drip or by adding it as
top off water.
<<Do be careful with this approach…>>
Can I do
this without raising my alkalinity?
<<No>>
I am getting ready
for the algae shoe to drop and would like to be able to raise my pH
now. What regimen do you suggest I follow at this point?
<<Run your
lights on a 10-14 hour photoperiod and buffer (with sodium bicarbonate)
your top-off and saltwater makeup water. If you find the bicarbonate
does not give you the pH boost you desire then obtain a proprietary
product for this purpose (I am fond of Seachem products). I suggest you
hold off on the Kalkwasser for now/until the tank matures a bit more>>>>
Also with regards to water changes, should I do any weekly changes now,
or is there not enough going on in my tank at the moment to warrant
that?
<<The presence of those fishes warrants frequent partial water
changes>>
Thanks very much.
Regards,
Ken
<<Always happy
to assist. Eric Russell>> R2: Raising pH - 11/18/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hi Ken>>
Have a safe trip home.
<<Did...thank
you>>
The Sailfin is about 2 ½” so he has a long way to go.
<<Mmm, not in my opinion...behavioral/developmental retardation comes
from "growing out" these fishes in "too small" systems as much as
placing re when mature>>
I will take your lighting suggestion
already.
<<Best at this stage I feel>>
At least I found out that
my chiller works.
<<Ha!>>
I can save on heating bills now for my
den.
<<Indeed>>
I will put the 108 watts of T5’s on for 12
hours. How long per day for the two 250 watts of HQI?
<<On
30-minutes after the T5s...off 30-minutes before the T5s>>
I have
the lights hanging from the ceiling. How high off the water do you
suggest?
<<8-12 inches...experiment to find what best suits your
livestock>>
With regards to my pH being reversed? The tank is not
near a window. I will call up Aquadyne and ask them what they think as
it is their controller.
<<Likely just something we haven't figured
on/explored. See what happens with the lights on>>
So you are
saying that I should get some hardy corals to start to compete with the
algae for nutrients.
<<Yes>>
I guess it is the same philosophy
as when I set up my plant tank and added lots of fast growing stem
plants at the beginning.
<<Indeed>>
What corals do you recommend
to start with and how many?
<<What is your stock list/stocking
plan? Will this be a biotope or species tank? A "mixed garden" reef?>>
Will the corals also be able to bring down the alkalinity?
<<Just
feeding/the mere presence of your fish will depress/consume
alkalinity. Aside from calcifying organisms, anything that
respires/produces organics wastes will affect alkalinity. Please read
Anthony Calfo's article here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/alkalinity.htm)
and follow the associated links at the top of the page for even more
information on this all too often confusing subject>>>>
I will check
to see if I can find a chart online of the various salt mixes to see if
alkalinity of each mix is published.
<<Be sure to do your own tests
to confirm>>
By the way, do you know of a good calcium test kit?
<<I find Seachem test kits to be an excellent balance of quality and
price>>
So at this point right now, should I not be concerned with
my pH being at about 8.10 and just see how things progresses with the
tank, or should I try to get the pH higher?
<<The former, 8.1 is
quite acceptable in my book...as long as it is maintained/kept
reasonably stable. Trying to maintain an artificially high pH can be/is
a real pain>>
I don’t want to start adding cocktails to the tank
unless it is necessary.
<<Agreed>>
You mentioned baking soda, is
this a safe way of raising pH without altering calcium and alkalinity?
<<It is>>
My alkalinity is at the high end of normal already as you
know and don’t want to have it increase.
<<No worries...the baking
soda will serve you well here>>
What does washing soda do?
<<Washing soda is much more alkaline, with a pH of about 11 as compared
to baking soda with a pH of about 8.1. Washing soda will give a higher
pH rise than baking soda but is also dangerous to use (to both you and
your livestock). As I mentioned in a previous response, if you want a
higher pH rise than the sodium bicarbonate provides, you should obtain
an "aquarium" product designed for this purpose and follow the
manufacturer's directions closely>>
You mentioned adding baking soda
to my top off water and to my water change water.
<<I did, yes>>
How much baking soda to how much water?
<<Start with a teaspoon per
gallon and adjust as/if necessary>>
Is the “dosage” the same for
both top off and water change water?
<<To start, yes>>
Is this a
common practice?
<<Fairly common, yes>>
Up to what pH level do I
want to continue this practice until?
<<Anything 8.0 or above will
likely be fine...you will need to "fine tune" this process to suit your
system...and you will likely need to make additional adjustments as the
system matures/ages>>>>
If I don’t have an automatic top off system
for adding top off water, and have to do it manually, how much can I add
at one time without the pH going to high?
<<Perform your top-off on
a daily basis at most (twice daily is better but absolutely necessary)
and you shouldn't have any issues>>
Is there a down side to doing
this?
<<Buffering your top-off water? Not in my opinion>>
By
the way, the water flow in my tank cannot be an issue as I have 600 gph
coming from the sump and two Tunze Turbelle Stream 6000’s inside the
tank.
<<Excellent>>
Once the tank matures, do you think that the
calcium reactor along with Kalkwasser for top off is a good way to go?
<<Will depend on the "consumption rate" of the tank/tank
inhabitants. Hook up/tune the calcium reactor first and add the
Kalkwasser only if it can not "keep up">>
Do you have any feelings
on Kalk-stirrer devices like Deltec’s?
<<I add Kalkwasser to my
system via automated top-off (Tunze Osmolator) through a DIY Kalkwasser
reactor. If you decide on/determine you need/want Kalkwasser additions
I feel these reactors are a great way to supplement this>>
How often
and what % do you recommend for water changes?
<<Opinions will vary
(http://www.wetwebmedia.com/water.htm),
but 15%-20% biweekly seems reasonable to me for your system.>>
Thanks again.
Regards,
Ken
<<Quite welcome. Eric Russell>>
R3: Raising pH – 11/19/06
Hi Eric,
<<Hi Ken>>
Glad you
made it home safely. I'll be leaving for business to Hong Kong and
Thailand in about 2 weeks.
<<Mmm, long hours in a plane seat…>>
I put off my trip to make sure all was set up with the tank. I guess I
know my priorities. LOL.
<<Ha! Indeed>>
There is a few block
area in Hong Kong with fish and corals. Store after store after store.
<<Ah yes, I watched a documentary re a few months ago>>
The prices
are incredibly cheap. It goes to show how much the price that we pay
here is a result of airfreight.
<<A large component>>
I have
been running my lights.
<<Good>>
Starting to get the brown
diatoms on the rocks.
<<normal>>
Do you think I have too much
light in my tank if I am only keeping LPS and softies?
<<Many can
adapt/will do well under the high output. Besides, the
glitter-lines/overall look of halides in much more desirable in my
opinion. You can always move the lights “up” to decrease intensity if
necessary>>
I did pick up a small colt and finger coral. I put them
at the bottom of the tank on the sand to acclimate. How many days
should I leave them there before moving them to a more permanent
location?
<<I would put them in their “permanent” locations now and
raise the lighting fixture (lowering it a few inches every couple of
days) or use multiple layers of fiberglass window screen to “shade” the
corals (remove a layer every couple of days). Do read here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimcoralslight.htm)
and among the associated links>>
You had mentioned about putting in
coral to compete with the algae for nutrients in the tank.
<<Yes I
did>>
Should I limit how many I get now?
<<Do allow a week or
two between additions>>
I was wondering if I get that wonderful snot
algae etc, will I have to be concerned with the well being of the
corals, or will they survive the potential outbreak.
<<They will
likely be fine>>
I think this will be a "mixed garden" tank as you
referred to.
<<I see>>
With regards to my pH, something
interesting. I had read about high alkalinity and CO2 in the room, and
letting fresh air in the room.
<<Ah…>>
I opened my window and in
a period of about 3-4 hours my pH went from 8.06 to 8.17.
<<Very
telling>>
Gee, I hope I don't have to do that all winter.
<<Indeed…perhaps you can figure a way to introduce/vent fresh air
to/from your system>>
I guess I can hold off on the baking soda for
the time being as my pH seems like it is ok. If down the road I get the
algae mentioned above, and my alkalinity is fine, then I can adjust my
pH with Kalk as top off.
<<The presence of high concentrations of
CO2 may well be a limiting factor even then. But no needs to
panic/overreact now…wait to see how things develop>>
By the way, the
Tunze Osmolator, is that just a fancy float switch?
<<And then
some. The device uses infrared light to “sense” the water level and
will detect a change as small as 1mm. Though a bit pricey (about $175),
these are very accurate and very reliable devices for tank top-off>>
Any benefit of this over the standard float switch?
<<Better
function/more reliable…in my opinion>>
Also you mentioned that you
have a Kalk reactor, is there a benefit to this over a magnetic stirrer?
<<One and the same…just different mechanics (mine uses a powerhead to
“stir” the Kalkwasser)>>
Are you running a calcium reactor as well?
<<I am…but I have a large (500g total system volume) system heavily
stocked with stony corals/calcifying organisms>>
I did find out some
info on the salts. I.O. and Reef Crystals have a 12 dKH. This explains
why when I started at 15 and did a water change, I couldn't drop down
say below 10.
<<I see>>
Tropic Marin is 7.5 dKH.
<<My fave
salt mix…if money were no option>>
Maybe my next water change I will
use this, or maybe the life in the tank will eat away at the alk. Oh
yea, again, thanks for the good call on the needle wheel skimmer.
<<Welcome…hard to go wrong with a quality unit>>
Thanks and regards,
Ken
<<Cheers mate, EricR>> Salt Water Math???
10/20/06
Hello Crew,
I've been doing some research on
freshwater planted aquaria, and have found an interesting equation. I'm
assuming that given low or non-existent phosphates, and having
carbonates as the primary buffer, that the CO2, pH, and KH relationship
remains true for saltwater or freshwater. If that's correct, is the math
formula CO2 = 3 * KH * (10^(7-pH)) also correct for the saltwater
relationship? If there isn't something I overlooked then anyone with a
high pH could certainly do this little calculation and know if
circulation is adequate, bio load was too high, etc. Any help on the
subject would be appreciated.
<No such formula exists as it would be
impossible to calculate based on individual systems. CO2 production is
largely based on the amount of fish and plant life that exists in the
aquarium. The heavier the load, the higher the CO2. Higher levels of
CO2 can deplete the dKH quickly which can lead to pH drops. Obviously,
it would be pretty hard to have a reasonably accurate formula with so
many factors that can affect this.>
Thanks,
<You're
welcome. James (Salty Dog)> <<This formula is approximately accurate
for saltwater. RMF>>
Steve
Small errors on
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm page 9/25/06
Hi,
on your
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm page you have a few
small errors:
1) In sentence :
"The fancy mathematical
expression for pH, is that it's the negative (or one over, the
reciprocal) of the logarithm (base 10) of Hydrogen ion concentration,
or:
1-log10[H+] or alternatively, ----------------------
log(10)
[H+]"
pH is -log10(H+) or log1/10(H+) (log base is 1/10) not
1-log10 or log(10) (I assume (10) means negative base in your
logarithm)
<Mmm, likely something (am ignorant of) in the
transliteration of the old word-processing software this article was in,
and HTML "compiler" (?)>
2) In sentence :
"Maybe one last
illustration (or two). Let's say the hydrogen ion concentration is
10-7.8 or 0.00000078 Moles/liter."
10e-7.8 is not 0.00000078 but ~
0.0000000158489
<Ah, yes... my error>
3) I don't know if it is
my browser or something else, but I don't see your pictograph or any
other graphs on your page (should be in your "Biological Importance"
section)
Mladen Covic
<Thanks much for this... will correct,
look for the old graphics... many of the "pieces" of WWM are quite old,
even pre-dating (1981) my use of computers... re-keyed quickly, and
through influences that I know naught re... have lost their image work
through time. Bob Fenner> Low PH & High Alkalinity
8/30/06
Good Afternoon,
I have done a lot of reading from
your website, and have gained a great deal of knowledge. However, I
can't find any info specific to my situation.
Please help.
I
have a 25 gal tank (HQI Metal Halide 70W, 14,000K), 45 lbs live rock, 30
lbs live sand, with (2) Fire Shrimp, (2) Cleaner Shrimp, (1) Brittle
Star, (2) Emerald Crabs, (1) Sally Lightfoot Crab, (3) Porcelain Crabs,
(1) Royal Gramma, (1) Bubble Tip Anemone, (1) Anthias, (1) Blue Damsel,
several snails, Hermit crabs, a couple of stony corals, a bread crumb
sponge, Pulsing Xenia, (2) sea squirts, & marine plants. I perform
regular water changes and am continually baffled as to why my alkalinity
hovers around 12 dKH and my PH is around 7.88 AM, 7.93 noon, & 8.05 PM.
I have a stock pump, a MaxiJet 1200, and an AquaClear 30.
How can I
maintain a PH of 8.1 (AM & PM), with a dKH of 10? In the past I tried
adding reef buffer and part A&B (not at the same time), but in addition
to raising my PH it also raised my alkalinity which is already way to
high at 12 dKH. What am I doing wrong?
<Your main problem is that
your tank is overstocked, too many nutrients bringing down pH faster
than it can buffer itself. The Anthias requires a much larger tank than
yours, and, most only do well with groups of their own kind. Anthias
can grow up to six inches in the home aquarium. You do not state which
Anthias you have so I cannot give much more info on this.
The
anemone has no place in a 25 gallon tank and shouldn't be mixed with
non-anemone safe fish. The Bubble Tip should be in nothing smaller than
a 55 gallon tank. They are sensitive to water parameter changes which
occur in smaller tanks. In addition, your filtering system is border
line and I would recommend the addition of a protein skimmer.>
I
dose 4 drops of iodine daily.
Levels:
Temp 78 F
Salinity 1.024
Phosphates 0
Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
Ammonia 0.1
Calcium 310
Thanks,
<You're welcome. I have deleted your last name and all
other personal information for your own privacy as these queries are
placed in our daily FAQ's for thousands to see. Do delete this info in
future queries.
James (Salty Dog)>
Jacqueline
Re: Low PH & High Alkalinity 9/2/06
Hi James,
<Hello Jackie>
Thanks for the quick response.
<You're welcome.>
I absolutely agree that my tank is overstocked. I am making plans to
get a 75 - 100 gallon tank within the next 6 months.
<Great, keep in
mind length and width are the most important factors to consider.
Go
for the larger area rather than depth.>
However, I am wondering if
my marine plant life could be contributing to my low PH issues by
increasing the CO2?
<Could see a drop in the evening after the
lights are out. Shouldn't be a problem during the photoperiod. Also
keep in mind that your pH is not dangerously low at all. Read here and
related links above. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm>
What are your thoughts?
Thanks,
<You're welcome. James (Salty
Dog)>
Jacqueline
pH & Alkalinity/Salt Mixes & Buffering -
08/22/06
Hello crew, thanks for taking the time to provide
valuable experience and information.
<<Is my pleasure to assist
when/where I can>>
I use Oceanic salt for my FOWLR system. The pH
is generally
7.9 to 8.0, I don't monitor alkalinity but have read
through your site that Oceanic brand sea salt mix does not have adequate
alkalinity and a slightly lower pH than sea water.
<<Mmm,
indeed...better (proven) brands to be had (Instant Ocean, Tropic
Marin)...but you can improve on this a bit with some buffering of your
make-up water>>
I haven't had any issues using Oceanic in my FOWLR
systems for the last few years.
<<Ok>>
Should I be more
concerned about this or is it not a concern as I am not trying to
maintain a reef system which will require more control of these water
parameters?
<<The reef system is more demanding, true, but you
should still strive to maintain natural saltwater chemistry for any
marine system. If the alkalinity of your salt mix is below NSW levels
you can try buffering with simple sodium bicarbonate (baking
soda). This "may" also give an increase of a tenth of a point or so to
your pH (aerate for 24 hours after adding to drive off the carbon
dioxide used in the manufacture of the baking soda). You might also
want to consider replacing/adding some new live rock to add fresh
buffers/earth elements to your system>>
Thanks again for your help.
<<Always welcome. EricR>> Why won't my pH stay buffered? Keeps
dropping to 7.8... 8/18/06
Hi there ladies and
gents,
<Hello Andy>
I do hope you can help me. I'm in the
process of setting up a 20g nano-reef tank and I'm doing something
wrong... I can't seem to buffer the pH to anything ABOVE 7.8 for any
extended period of time. The tank is only a couple of weeks old and
hence has no livestock in it currently. It just has 1.5" of substrate
(CaribSea Arag-Alive), RO water mixed to 1.024 SG with Kent Salt, a
couple of maxi-jet powerheads, a Hagen 50w heater and a Hagen Fluval 2
internal filter which I have filled with a (well pre-rinsed) Tropic
Marin "Elimi-Phos" bag and a net of "Kent Nitrate Sponge granules"...
All of the equipment, water and 'ingredients' are brand new.
I have
attempted to buffer using Kent Marine Buffer and initially got a good
reading of 8.3 but upon re-measuring around 24 hours later, the pH level
has dropped to around 7.8 (or possibly even lower!). Now I'm no genius
but even I can work out that it's probably either the Elimi-Phos, Kent
Nitrate Sponge or the Substrate that is causing this but I'm at a loss
as to which. I've not yet been able to get another load of RO water to
do some serious testing, but I mixed a bucket of new RO water with the
salt and buffered it to 8.3 with no problems but as soon as I poured
some of the CaribSea in there, it immediately lowered slightly. However
- this does not give the Elimi-Phos or Nitrate sponge a clean bill of
health - all three could be adding to the problem I guess.
Currently, I am not really equipped to have a load of buckets, each with
a heater and powerhead, to run a test on the pH reduction abilities of
each of the three products, so I was wondering if anything in my list of
products rang alarm bells for you? I checked thoroughly and could find
no instructions that warned against using the Elimi-Phos and Nitrate
Sponge in a constantly submerged filter like the Fluval but I'm thinking
that maybe that's adding to the problem.
Since I knew that I would
have to start the tank again, I decided to over-buffer it (I was
planning on renewing the water, cleaning the tank and the things in the
tank anyway) and even after adding more buffer than you'd ever expect to
have to, the tank simply covered itself in the messy deposits from the
buffer (time to scrub with filter wool methinks!) and the pH was back
down to 7.8 the following morning... Very irritating!
I have now
removed the Elimi-Phos and Nitrate sponge from the filter and have
replaced it with filter wool so when I get a chance to get more RO and
to clean the tank I'll be keen to see whether it can be buffered with
the substrate and filter-wool only... If not - I guess it's the
substrate that's at fault and I'll reverse the test: no substrate, but
put the Elimi-Phos and Nitrate Sponge back in. If THAT doesn't work,
I'll simply put the Fluval with wool back in and remove the substrate
and see how THAT fares...
Any thoughts/suggestions are very much
welcome - this is frustrating me now!
Thanks!
<Andy, before
going further, I'd like to know what your dKH reading is.
James
(Salty Dog)>
Andy
Re: Why won't my pH stay buffered?
Keeps dropping to 7.8... 8/19/06
Thank you for your
reply James,
<You're welcome.>
I will measure the dKH this
evening when
I get home from work. I expect that for the water I
removed from the tank, it'll be a bit swayed by the amount of buffer
it's had to absorb,
but the tank is now all pristine and clean and
simply has RO water, salted with Tropic Marin and a couple of powerheads
and the heater, so
hopefully the reading will be normal. I will get
back to you.
<Yes>
I've also got a couple of bags of fine-ish
substrate which is the brand of TMC who - in case you hadn't heard of
them (being a UK company) are a
very big distributor of Marine
products in Europe. (please don't think I'm being patronizing - I just
wasn't sure if you'd heard of them) :)
http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk/aquarium/sand-gravel.asp
<Not familiar
with the letters TMC.> <<... see review posted... on WWM re... by RMF>>
I plan to rinse this out this evening and - after testing for pH drop in
a bucket of water prepared to the same standard as my tanks water -
introduce to the tank tomorrow. I really hope this won't drop the pH
again because I'll be at a genuine loss as to why. I'm hoping it'll have
been the Nitrate Sponge that's caused the drop I experienced but even
that shouldn't have happened...
<No, should not affect the pH.>
Hmmm... Anyway - thanks for the reply James, I'll drop you the results
of the dKH test later on.
<Good>
Many thanks!
<You're
welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Andy
RO/DI...Misapplication/Buffering/pH - 08/09/06
Dear Crew:
<<Lloyd>>
Hi. I just set up my first marine tank over the last two
weeks and have some issues.
<<I see>>
The tank is a 180, and
will be a FOWLR if I can ever get to that point.
<<Let's see what I
can do to help you get there>>
I filled it with tap water, which is
relatively clean, but hard. Alkalinity was at 300 KH and pH at 8.4. I
treated it with Amquel Plus, added Oceanic salt, (SG is .019), and put
in 120 pounds of CaribSea Geo Marine crushed coral with aragonite.
<<I know this is a FOWLR system, but I really think you should increase
the salinity to natural seawater levels (1.025/.026). If parasitic
infection is a concern then arm yourself with a quarantine system and
read up on/perform freshwater dips when transferring your fish, but
don't subject them to a continuous hyposalinity environment in the
display. Think about it, another term for hyposalinity is OST or
Osmotic "Shock" Therapy...it has its uses for some short-term
treatments, but not as a permanent environmental element. Your fish
will exhibit better behaviors, colors, and "long-term" health in my
opinion if kept at a salt concentration closer to/matching that from
which they came>>
I washed the gravel extensively but still have
somewhat cloudy water. Should I use water clarifiers or just filter it
out mechanically with a 50 micron pad?
<<Nix on the clarifiers...you
can use the filter pad if you wish, or just wait for the "dust" to
settle on its own...usually a matter of days>>
My more distressing
issue is with pH. I have been reading a great deal in the FAQ's
regarding the use of RO/DI units and how they affect water quality.
<<Can...if misused>>
While I certainly may have missed something,
(yes, I used the search tool), I seem to be finding conflicting
information.
<<Differing opinions abound>>
I am currently
running RO/DI water directly into my sump to top off one to two gallons
per day as a result of evaporation.
<<Yikes! This is an example of
"misuse"...adding raw unbuffered RO water to your system contributes to
the rapid depletion of buffering elements as your system tries to make
up for what the newly added water lacks>>
I read that this is an
acceptable practice,
<<Mmm, no...not in my opinion...a recipe for
trouble>>
however, my pH has dropped into the 7.4 range and the
alkalinity is at about 80-100 KH.
<<And there is your proof my
friend. If you are going to run the RO/DI water directly to the tank
then run it through a Kalkwasser reactor first...else I recommend you
discontinue this practice and store/aerate/buffer the water in a
separate container before adding to your system>>
I have also read
that processed water often has a very low pH and that it should be
aerated to dissipate CO2, which "consumes" alkalinity, which would seem
to confirm my problem.
<<Aerating/dissipating CO2 will provide a
small increase in pH, but you will still likely need to give it a
boost...and you still need to boost/buffer alkalinity>>
I'm a bit
confused.
<<Have you read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
>>
By the way, I'm using Jungle 5 in 1 test strips, so I'm not
positive about how accurate these are.
<<Useless...low
quality/inaccurate, too easily affected/corrupted by atmospheric
moisture. Do look to Hach, Salifert, and Seachem for good test kits>>
I have a reservoir for mixing salt water and would prefer to use tap
water, mixed and aged, for water changes only and continue to run the
RO/DI water directly into the sump with the use of a float valve.
<<Depending on the water in your area using tap water for a FOWLR system
is quite possible, but running the raw RO.DI to your sump for top-off is
not...in my humble opinion and for reasons you have already
experienced>>
This will allow me to minimize my use of the
filtration unit and save having multiple floats and pumps, while still
maintaining an automated top-off.
<<But at the expense of system
stability an the associated detrimental affects on your livestock>>
Should I use additives to raise pH and alkalinity or is there a better
method?
<<Using additives to "continually" adjust pH and alkalinity
in your system creates a roller-coaster effect that will surely have
deleterious affect on your livestock. The "better method" is to adjust
pH/alkalinity prior to adding the water>>
I have a general aversion
to using additives of any kind and seem to remember reading that
manipulating levels in this manner is to be avoided.
<<Indeed>>
What to do?
<<Already stated>>
Thanks for any help that you may
provide. I had hoped to not bother you with an e-mail and find answers
on my own, but the more I read, the more overwhelmed I am with the vast
amount of information.
<<No worries mate...am here to help>>
I
have been reading on your site for a year prior to undertaking this
project. I also refer frequently to Bob's "Conscientious Marine
Aquarist".
<<Ah, very good...but don't limit yourself to a single
source of information. You've already noticed the differences in
opinion just on this site...best to gather/learn from differing sources
and use your own good judgment to make a decision>>
Both have been
outstanding sources of information and I appreciate the time and
dedication that all of you put into this hobby, or in your case,
profession.
<<Mmm, not my vocation but more an avocation...no
"expert" here, merely a "student" of the hobby>>
Thanks again,
Lloyd H.
Columbia, MO
<<Happy to assist. Regards, EricR in
Columbia SC>> Raising pH 8/1/06
Crew,
<Andrew>
I've tried ALL the tricks that I have read on your web site
to raise the pH of my reef tank and have yet to achieve success. My
tank hovers around 8.0-8.1 while I drip Kalkwasser 24/7 (1.5 gallons per
day). If I stop dosing, the pH settles down to 7.8 quickly. I tried
opening a window, aerating more, etc...
After mixing fully aerated
RO water with IO for a water change, the dKH reads between 12.2 and
12.5, with a pH of 8.0. As a result, I am unable to add any buffer to
raise the pH for fear of raising the dKH too high and starting a snow
storm. See my dilemma? The raw RO water has a dKH of 0.3, so the IO
alone is buffering more than I would like, leaving no room for Reef
Buffer to adjust the pH. My goal is a pH of 8.3-8.4 and dKH of 9-10.
<Assuming your test kit is reading correctly, nutrient level low, and
nitrates low, I would buffer the RO water to achieve a pH of 8.0-8.3
before mixing the Instant Ocean. Overstocked tanks can add to the
problem also.>
Thanks for your thoughts and insights.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)
Regards,
Andrew.
My pH has fallen and I can't get it up 7/30/06
My pH is
dropping steadily everyday. It hangs around 7.75. I use B-Ionic, drip
Kalkwasser, purple up, SeaChem reef buffer.
<Uhh, depending on how
you are administering the above, you are likely precipitating out the
carbonate... lowering/buffering the pH...>
My parameters are :
pH 7.85
Salinity 36
Spec
Gravity 1.026
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
Calcium 371
Alkalinity 4.5
Silica 0
No
matter what I do the pH keeps dropping. Help
<Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and the linked files
above. I'd lose the Kalk habit for a while... Bob Fenner>
Re:... pH drop... SW.... Still not reading... sigh....
7/31/06
Kalk is being dripped in about 1 drop per 2 seconds
<... keep reading. RMF> Re: Still not reading? Get in
line bub! Low pH and rudeness 7/31/06
what should I do to
maintain pH? Last night it dropped to 7.65, I added B-ionic to raise it.
<... which part?...>
How long will it take for the tank to recover?
<...? Uhh... you don't know enough to ask the right questions...
Incredible... follow the directions on how to write us, use the search
tool, indices... please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and the linked files
above... Edge you mah cate yo'self. RMF> Re: Still
not reading? Goodbye, good luck, good riddance 7/31/06
I've looked on your web site and I can't find anything to help me. How
do I keep my pH up and not increase alkalinity?
<First, by knowing
what you're about... read... where you've been repeatedly referred to...
go elsewhere. RMF> High Calcium Low pH
7/15/06
Hi,
<Hello>
I have a question I hope you may be
able to help me with. I tried searching your database but couldn't
locate an answer there. I have a new 120 gallon saltwater setup. The
only things in it right now are 120lbs of Caribbean live rock and 120
lbs of live sand. I use R/O water and Kent's Sea Salt to mix the
water. The calcium reading I am getting is almost 600
<Way too
high...>
with a pH of some were between 7.8 and 8.0.
<A bit
low... and not surprisingly... the overly high concentration of
biominerals is depressing (precipitating) the alkalinity...>
A
couple of weeks ago approximately 2.5 gallons of Kalkwasser solution was
inadvertently put into the tank in about 6 hrs.
<...>
(The
adjustment on the Aquadoser was rolled the wrong way accidentally.) I'm
not sure what the calcium reading was before this but the pH has never
been above 7.8 since
<... yes>
I began testing it just after
the live rock cured in May. The exception being when I tested it just
after the Kalkwasser incident when it was at 8.4, but it quickly
dropped down again within a week (not good I know). I am adding
Seachem's Marine buffer to try to raise the pH put am seeing little
affect after 4 days of use. Is the high calcium level preventing the pH
from going up (I know calcium and alkalinity go hand in hand and
alkalinity affects the pH somewhat)?
<Oh yes>
Also is that
calcium level dangerously high or is it OK for now unit it comes down
over time. The coralline algae has taken off with it at this level and
is gradually lowering the calcium level at it uses it, the level was at
660 just after the accident with the Kalkwasser.
Thanks in advance
for you help,
Brandi
<You need a bit of
practical chemical knowledge, understanding... Please read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and the linked files
above... You'll soon know what went on, your possible courses for
improvement. Bob Fenner>
Lowering pH of Fresh Water for FW
and Methylene Blue dip 7/12/06
Hi Bob,
<Art>
I read
on the 'Dips FAQ' page that Baking Soda (sodium bicarbonate) could be
used to raise the pH of fresh water for a FM/methylene blue dip for
marine fish,
<To a pH of about 7.8 tops, yes>
but how do you
lower the pH of the fresh water for the dip? My RO fresh water is 8.4
<... something's amiss with your reverse osmosis device...>
and the
water of the destination tank is between 8.0 and 8.2. Thanks for your
help,
Sincerely,
Art
<Mmm, likely the use of a safe,
commercial sodium bi/phosphate based "downer" of aquarium pH here. Do
have someone check your RO membrane... it's shot. Bob Fenner>
Help! pH non-anomaly with new water 6/8/06
Hi
there. It's Chris again with yet another ph issue. My tank has
consistently been at 8.5 to 8.6 for the last 10 days. I've also had 5
gallons of replacement synthetic seawater "brewing" in a large plastic
container for a week. This water was made with RO water, instant ocean
salt mix (salinity at .025), and Seachem Marine Buffer. After one full
week brewing in this covered plastic container, with a powerhead, the
ph is a consistent 8.5 to 8.6. What am I doing wrong in that I simply
cannot get my ph in the 8.1 to 8.3 range?
Thanks, as
always.
<Mmm, nada... this is "about right" considering the salt mix
brand, the buffer product added... and not a worry... will drift down
over time/use. I would not be concerned here. Bob Fenner>
Re: Help! pH non-anomaly with new water and Zoanthids 6/8/06
Thanks, Bob.
<Welcome Chris>
Should I consider a premium-brand
salt mix?
<Mmm, no... or I wouldn't... Instant Ocean is a mighty
fine product... consistent, well-formulated...>
On another note, I
have recently purchased a Zoanthus colony, which looked great at my fish
store, however, since adding it to my tank on Saturday (today is
Thursday) it has yet to fully bloom.
<This/these can take a while to
adjust...>
In fact, I would say that it's blooming at about 15% of
capacity. Is this a ph issue?
<Doubtful>
I'm adding Reef
Solution daily (1/2 capful),
<I'd hold off on this...>
have it
placed very high in my aquarium.
<I'd start new cnidarians lower,
lowest...>
The colony had been placed near the middle so I moved it
hoping for better bloom.
<And not move them around much at first...>
I also just recently started adding phytoplankton.
<Most
cnidarians don't eat much of this...>
By the way, the tank is a 37G
"high" tank with 130W of compact fluorescent lighting.
Thanks again,
your expertise is invaluable.
Chris
<Do please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/zoanthid.htm
and the linked files above.
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
Dosing Kalkwasser/Inadequate
Feeding/Falling pH - 06/02/06
Dear crew,
<<Greetings>>
Thanks for doing us all an invaluable service. Your time and effort
with this site is greatly appreciated.
<<Ah, thank you for these
words>>
I have a 30gal reef, 20gal sump, with AquaC Remora Pro and a
10gal refugium with Chaetomorpha.
<<Very nice>>
Lighting
consists of 2x96 watt10k/actinic, and 65 watt 65k lamps. My ammonia,
nitrites, and nitrates 0, alk 10, cal 325, pH 7.9. I have about 4" DSB
in my main tank and 6" in my sump. Substrate is CaribSea Aragonite
Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand Grain size 1.0 - 2.0 mm. I employ 5gal
weekly water changes with RO and salinity is kept about 1.025. Calcium
is usually maintained around 400 using Seachem's reef complete.
Circulation is about 20x using a MAG 7.5 connected to a SCWD and a Rio
600. The last few months I have been getting more and more hair and BGA
algae. I have a pajama cardinal and a royal Gramma. I have an emerald
crab, red and blue legged hermits, and a serpent star. I also have some
narcissus,
<<Nassarius>>
turbo, and Astrea snails. I feed 1
cube of mysis shrimp or bloodworms every other day and do not drain the
packing juice.
<<You need to feed a better selection in my
opinion. The brine shrimp and bloodworms are fine as a "supplement",
but neither should be fed as a staple diet. The bloodworms, being a
non-marine organism, are lacking in those elements needed by your
fish...and the brine shrimp is sorely lacking in "any" real nutritive
value (mostly water). Please feed marine-based foods such as frozen
mysis/plankton/krill and a quality pelleted food such as New Life
Spectrum>>
Lately I started using Kalkwasser hoping for the
benefits. I use the slurry method using about 1/8th tsp every 2-3 days.
<<Hopefully you have an electronic meter to monitor pH as you
dose...strive to add enough to raise the existing pH by two-tenths (e.g.
- 7.8 to 8.0)>>
Now my pH has dropped to about 7.8 to 8.0 and it has
never done this before.
<<Mmm...how do you measure pH? If using a
test kit, perhaps it is time for new reagents. I would also stop dosing
the Seachem product and see if this affects you pH>>
Even when I
first started to use Kalkwasser it only elevated my pH.
<<It
would/is expected to do so, yes>>
So now I'm unsure what to do to
raise my pH back up other then trying to change about half of my water
to try and get back to par.
Any suggestions would be greatly
appreciated.
<<Do the water change, stop dosing the Seachem product
(the Kalkwasser should handle your calcium needs), renew your test kit,
and read here, being sure to follow the associated links:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm >>
Thanks
Mark
<<Quite welcome, EricR>> Help! Tubiculous
polychaete spunk, now pH lowering... 6/1/06
Thanks
for the quick reply and I have one quick follow up for you. What can I
do to lower my ph? I have makeup water almost ready but it's ph won't
drop below 8.6.
Thanks again.
Chris
<Mmm, I wouldn't fool
with this pH... I would read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm
and the linked files above.
Bob Fenner> pH and Ammonia out of whack!!!
6/1/06
Hi Bob!
<Jen Here>
We are just getting started
with a 90 gallon salt water tank with the filtration system in the
bottom, T5 lighting with Berlin (hang on the side) skimmer. The problem
we are having is that we can't stabilize our pH one day it will be fine
8.1 and the ammonia 0 one day then next time I tested it, it will be up.
We have our rock, snails, hermit crabs, emerald crab, sand sifter star
fish, diamond goby and just got some mushrooms. What do you think we can
do to stabilize the problem we are having? Looking forward to hear from
you.
<More than likely you need to just wait and let it stabilize
itself with a new tank. However there are ways to alter your
pH. Search on WWM re: pH. But with a new tank this sometimes happens,
however you probably should have waited until your readings stabilize to
stock the tank with the fish and some of the inverts. It's all about
patience here! Do some reading on WWM and good luck! ~Jen S.>
Thanks
Mr & Mrs. Dennis Gardiner Low pH
- 5/11/06
Hi There,
<Good morning.>
Please forgive me if
my question has been asked before. I've searched through the articles
and FAQ's and don't find it, so here we go.
I have 120gal fish/reef
system. When I set it up a year ago, the pH was just fine (around
8.2). Over the course of the last 6 months, the pH has dropped too low
(about 7.8). I've tried everything to get the level back up, trying not
to be too drastic about it and upsetting everything. I've used multiple
mini water changes (5 gals each, 2-3 times a week) in addition to the
regular 10% a month for about 2 months.
<<The 10% water changes
should be done at least twice a month.>> I've tried using several
commercial buffers (Kent, etc). It just won't budge. I really haven't
changed very much about the residents of the tank. Still basically the
same group and mix.
<<For starters, how many and what kind of fish
are you keeping? Do take a pH reading of newly mixed sea water one day
after you mix it and let me know the reading along with your latest
nitrate reading. I will then give you some suggestions.>>
Any
ideas?
Thanks very much.
<<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>>
Re: Low pH - 05/13/2006
Here's my reply. Thank you so
much for your help. You are a terrific resource for a rookie like
myself.
I have a 14 month old 120 gal tank with 90lbs live rock,
3-5” sand bed, canister filter <<Canister filters can add to high
nitrate levels if
they are not cleaned on a weekly basis. Same goes
for the filter pads/sponge, need to be changed or cleaned weekly.>>
and wet/dry filter, chiller set at 77 degrees. I have
1 Red sea
star
1 Green brittle star
1 White sand star
2 feather
dusters
1 stony coral
An assortment of mushrooms (red, green,
hairy)
1 leather finger coral
About 50 assorted janitor snails
(turbo, Cerith, margarita, etc)
1 yellow tang
1 blue damsel
1 yellow tail damsel
1 blue-green chromis
1 lawnmower blenny
1 cinnamon clown
1 false clown
1 sleeper goby
1 strawberry
Pseudochromis- for my bristleworm problem, not helping
1 bi-color
Pseudochromis- for my bristleworm problem, not helping
1 painted
fairy wrasse
½ small hermit crabs
The tang is the biggest at
about 4”, the rest range from 1-3" (they were tiny when I got them).
For water changes I use tap water, <<Ahah. Did you every take a
nitrate/phosphate/pH reading of your tap water?>>
Instant Ocean salt
mix, the recommended about of Amquel and Nova Aqua to remove the
chlorine, et al. I tested the pH overnight before going into the tank
and it’s 8.0. <<I'm guessing here that you do not aerate the water 24
hours before adding the salt. The aeration will remove excess CO2 in
the water which will reduce the
pH of your newly made up salt
water. Not necessary to use Amquel or Nova Aqua. The 24 hour aeration
will take care of any chlorine present. Before adding salt to
the
aerated freshwater, do adjust its pH to at least 8.0 by way of
buffers.>>
Ammonia and nitrite look very, very good. My nitrate is
out of control (over 40 ppm), but it has always been. <<You do not
mention the use of a protein skimmer. Is one being used? High nitrates
do contribute to low pH. Do read here also. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm>> Doesn’t
seem to improve with the multiple things I’ve tried but the animals look
happy and healthy. The pH is the thing that's changed. I really
appreciate your help. <<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>>
High Alkalinity, low pH 5/7/06
Hello Team! After reading your
document on understanding pH & Alk , many sites around the web, I am
still confused a bit....
<<This is sometimes a tough topic!>>
Tank in question is a 46g reef w/6w per gal compact lighting. How do I
get in a situation with high alkalinity and low pH (8.05 to 8.15 tested
using calibrated digital meter w/ ORP of ~260, 79 degrees F). The only
explanation I can come up with is high CO2 levels. While I have not
tested CO2, I do have excellent surface agitation with 2 x magnum 350's
and 2 x 600GPH power heads, approx 1.5 to 2" of space between water
surface and aquarium lid, + air stone to get fresh air into tank
surface. I also have a newer home which I have heard could cause
elevated CO2 levels by the tight insulation/seal. I feel I have done
all I can short of breaking the bank on such a small aquarium to keep
gas levels close to normal. I also use R/O D/I water w/ Reef Crystals
brand mix, agitate for 24 hours prior to use.
<<Your pH is not that
bad, and you did not list a value for alkalinity. To test for CO2 build
up, aerate a sample of water out doors and re-check the pH. If the pH
rises significantly, the you have CO2 accumulating. High alkalinity can
occur from overuse of buffers/alkalinity supplements. Your choice of
salt mix and procedure are fine.>>
Questions:
1.) What other
factors could cause high ALK, low pH
<<See the comments above.>>
2.) I usually dose with SeaChem buffer to raise pH and reef builder alk
supplements if necessary. I have Kalk mix but decided to not use it yet
w/ all of the human health hazard stickers on it. What would be a good
alternative to boost pH w/o raising Alk, I fear I could drop calcium
levels to far by over-using Alk+pH supplements.
<<Both the buffer
and reef builder are similar products. Both are buffers and will raise
alkalinity. I would discontinue or reduce the use of these until your
alkalinity approaches normal. Continue whatever calcium supplement you
are using. When both the calcium and alkalinity are in normal range,
resume the alkalinity supplement to keep both in the normal range. If
you confirm CO2 accumulation with the outdoor aeration test, address
that issue separately. Also, FWIW, Kalkwasser will raise pH more than
any other calcium/alkalinity supplement.>>
3.) If over
nitrification, over loading (we have decently loaded system), over
feeding (we have cut back to once per day, small amounts of frozen
shrimp to figure out pH issue) were to blame for my pH dropping wouldn't
this cause a drop in Alk also. Thank you for all your help!
<<Yup,
it would. Feel free to feed normally, but please do the outdoor
aeration test and consider Kalkwasser. As for the health risks....
avoid creating dust and if you do, avoid breathing it. Also be careful
not to splash it in your eyes and rinse it promptly if you get it on
your skin. It is not poisonous, just caustic. Best regards. AdamC.>>
High Alk, Low pH part 3... test results 5/11/06
Hello and thanks
again! I gathered a small cup of aquarium water, stirred outside of tank
with digital pH probe for a few seconds indoors, it maintained a pH of
about 8.17. I opened the door to outside and stirred the water again
for a few seconds, immediately the pH jumped to about 8.31. It sounds
like I do have an excess of CO2 in the house, but is this change enough
for a concern?
<<Considering that the pH scale is logarithmic (every
one point change in pH is 10x the H+ concentration!), that is a
significant change. I would say you have confirmed the CO2 theory.>>
What if I put a few plants in the same room as the aquarium, wouldn't
they consume CO2 and produce O2? Would it really make any
difference. I have my tanks in my finished basement which is probably
around 1,000 square feet. Bryan
<<A couple of plants probably would
not make that much difference. Remember that plants, like corals and
algae only photosynthesize during the day. At night, they respire and
consume O2 and produce CO2. The best solution is to get some fresh air
into the room. Some aquarists leave a window open just a hair and some
have plumbed some pipe from the outdoors to their protein skimmer. Your
exact circumstances will decide what is appropriate. Best
Regards. AdamC.>> pH anomaly and RO/DI,
logical rise in pH with commercial buffers - 5/12/2006
Dear Crew,
My water out of my RODI unit tends to have a high pH
(8.4) even after adding new resin.
<Something amiss here>
Have
you ever heard of this? Also, I added Purple Up to my tank and my pH
has risen several tenths. This is the only thing I can attribute the
rise to.
<...? Should be higher with this addition>
Have you
ever used this additive or heard of it causing a rise in pH? Thanks
again.
Jeff
<... Your tapwater pH is what? Likely your water
filter membrane is shot... The addition of alkaline material/s will
elevate pH... Bob Fenner> Re: High Alk,
low pH CO2 TEST RESULTS + plants in room - 5/12/2006
Thanks for all the help. I would not be overly thrilled w/ plumbing to
outside for many reasons including adding poisons to the tank from
frequent lawn treatments, we also have a high radon levels in Kansas
City, and adding humidity to the house.
<Understood, and agreed>
Are there any other solutions to reducing the CO2 problem? I dose w/
Kalk to 8.6 but it frequently travels back down w/n 24 hours to about
8.3
<Mmm, none more practical than venting more air out, new air
in... a pH of 8.3 is fine all the way about for captive marine systems.
Much more to "be had", gained by leaving, having this steady than trying
to elevate much more. Bob Fenner> Re:
High Alk, low pH CO2 TEST RESULTS + plants in room - 5/12/2006
Thanks Bob!, I have been looking for your book here locally but the
local Borders and Barnes n noble doesn't seem to carry it.
<How dare
they! Heeeee, do believe these folks do sell CMA on-line... Know Amazon
does>
Would you agree I am better to have a swing of 8.6 to 8.3
rather than 8.3 to 8.15 to 8.0?
<Mmm, actually, no... For a few
reasons it's better to let pH in almost all settings vacillate with 8.3
to 8.4 being the high/er point. Do you want to review these reasons?>
It seems from reading your site the answer would be 8.6 to 8.3 would be
better. Of course in an ideal world it would remain stable at
whatever it is. Is there such a thing as a O2 reactor, I have heard of
CO2 only. Would this help?
<Mmm, only minimally... if anything, I
would first look into adding/using an ozonizer... O3 would serve many
useful purposes... among them to elevate and stabilize pH directly and
indirectly>
I have learned so much from your website, have you
thought about adding a forums to your site?
<We do have such a BB:
WetWebFotos.com>
I think it would bring you a nice traffic increase
and allow visitors to help other visitors with their own experience.
<Yes... thank you for this suggestion. Am in agreement. The (current)
design of WWM is a bit different... would really like to see it
unfold/evolve into a "Wiki" sort of tool/offering>
Of course your
team and moderate the forums when time permits.
<Heee... and I
hasten to add the universal human ingredient of "patience">
I would
highly recommend vBulletin forum software for the features and security
(http://www.vbulletin.com/). I
am an Internet entrepreneur, if you have any questions feel free to let
me know!
Best
Bryan
<Again, thank you for your input. Bob
Fenner> Re: High Alk, low pH CO2 TEST
RESULTS + plants in room - 05/13/2006
Thanks Bob, so 8.4
swing to 8.1 or 8.2 would be better but not perfect it sounds. Even w/
Xenia which stops pulsing at below about 8.25 for me.
Other than not
pulsing, does it also prohibit/slow their growth?
<Mmm, perhaps
some, yes>
Unfortunately I did use crushed coral in this tank w/ a
deep bed before I knew much and am having higher nitrates. I can dilute
w/ water changes (w/ RO d/I water) but the nitrates creep right back up
in no time.
<There are other countervailing strategies... covered on
WWM>
I do gravel vac but a good part of the rock is not in a
location that is accessible as I have a lot of live rock
coverage. Unfortunately given the small tank a sump (w/ plants) are a
bit out of the question and plants in main tank would be picked by
fish. Any other suggestions biological/chemical w/o removing crushed
coral and going sand?
Thanks for all the help
Bryan
<Please
read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
and the linked files
above. Perhaps reliance on a good two-part biomineral/alkalinity
supplement (B-Ionic e.g.) would do the most good here... Bob Fenner>
Saltwater pH, Buffering For Use - 04/27/2006
Hello crew!
<Hello Wayne, Josh here from IMAC.>
I've got a question that I
couldn't find on the site. I'm sure you'll be able to help.
<Hope
so.>
I currently buffer my top-off water with Reef Buffer by
Seachem. I buffer it until it reached 8.3 before adding to the tank. I
also plan to use this same water to mix with saltwater for water
changes. I use Instant Ocean salt mix. When mixed with unbuffered
water, the PH is up around 8.3. Should I mix this salt with un-buffered
or buffered water?
<Well, I bet you won't have a problem either way,
but remember you can always mix and then buffer.>
By mixing this
salt with buffered water, won't I run the risk of having the pH be too
high?
<Doubtful with this salt mix.>
Thanks again!
Wayne
<Sure. - Josh> QT help, high pH and High Alkalinity -
04/27/06
Greetings Crew from the Coal Region here in PA. I am
hoping to get a really quick response if possible. Please don't let the
length of this email deter you from reading it right away. I had sent 2
separate emails almost one month ago, resending each one a second time
about a week or more after not hearing back, with still no response. I
know how busy you all must be, and I hate to be a pest.
<If we did
not respond, we did not receive your messages>
I was reading through
your article and FAQs, but couldn't quite find what I was looking
for. So, here it goes...
I followed some recommendations in setting
up a QT. It is a 10 gallon. I used 6 gallons of water from my display
tank and made up the difference with new salt water. I should note that
my display tank is a 46 gallon up and running with 2 TR ocellaris
clowns, one skunk cleaner and 5 snails for almost 2 months. It probably
cycled in about 2 weeks, but it wasn't for almost another 6 weeks until
anything was added, so my tank is about 4 months along I guess. I did
not initially have a QT, but I have since purchased one and set it up
for new livestock. I had guilt issues, what can I say?
<What you
wish, can>
I know it was absolutely the right thing to do, and I had
taken a risk by not doing it first, but I am happy to report I have not
had any problems with my current critters. I am lucky.
Anyway, I
actually set up the QT a few weeks ago, if not longer. It has been
running with just the water and heater for that same time. My plan was
not to wait this long to buy livestock, but life just happens, and
things don't always go as planned. I did have to add about 6 gallons of
new salt water to the QT after I had to remove about 6 to refill my
display tank. Reader's Digest version: I woke up the other day to the
sound of running water. Low and behold, for some reason unbeknownst to
me, my protein skimmer (Super Skimmer, my second one... had a Sea Clone
first) was overflowing out of the collection cup. It must have started
at some point in the wee hours of the morning. So, I needed to replace
what was all over my floor and down into my basement! Since I had no
water yet prepared for a change, I used it from the QT. And let me
tell, at that moment, I was so pleased I had it set up.
Oh yes, back
to my question. My husband and I were actually planning a trip (for the
last month) this evening to the only place we will buy livestock from
because they have been so wonderful, That Fish Place in Lancaster, PA.
<A fabulous retailer. One of the best>
Anyway, I checked some
things, and my PH is at like 8.6 and the Alkalinity is high, as per my
test kit (Marine Lab by Red Sea). I am guessing this isn't a good
thing?
<Mmm... not necessarily bad>
If I do a water change,
adding water from my display, will that do the trick?
<Likely will
help... or just time going by...>
I also want to note that I will be
replacing one of the filter pads from my Fluval with the one currently
in the filter that came with the 10 gallon. I did not want to do that
too soon with nothing in there to feed the bacteria. I know QT's can be
set up in an emergency if needed by doing the things I have said, but I
just don't want to act in haste. I am overly anxious to bring home a
new friend, even though they won't meet for weeks. I hope you
understand.
<Yes>
I really hope what I have asked, albeit in the
novel version, makes sense. I know it is a lot to ask, but if someone
can get back to me soon, that would be great. My sincerest thanks and
appreciation. Have a good day.
Tiffani Tobin
Hello again. I
just sent this email down below, but I forgot to mention that the temp
of the water in my QT is 79, and the SG is 1.023. Thank you for your
time.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner> Adjusting pH on RO/DI Effluent -
04/24/06
Hello WWM Crew,
<<Hello!>>
Great to be talking
(typing) to you guys again. I have a question for you as to how you
might go about treating the water leaving an RO/DI filter used for
automatic top-off.
<<Mmm...>>
The filter is plumbed to a "T"
connector in my basement. One effluent line connects to a float-valve
in an aerated 42 gal trash can in the basement that I use for water
changes, the other line runs to another float valve in the refugium
under my tank, both floats are working well and all water levels are
stable. The tank is a 72 gallon bow-front reef with LPS corals and
fish. My concern is stability in the tank, most specifically PH.
<<Ok>>
The RO/DI filter is continually topping off my tank with
water of a very low PH.
<<Indeed...as well as no buffering capacity
and little to no oxygen content>>
Tank measurements for PH are
running about 8.2 during the day, but are dipping to 8 at night.
<<Not that bad really>>
I have never had this problem before, so I
am attributing it to the fact that I am now feeding the make-up water
directly into the refugium without buffering.
<<Yes, probably so>>
My RO/DI filter is a six-stage setup that finishes the treatment with
two REFILLABLE DI chambers, both utilizing the same type of resin. My
thinking was that I could remove the resin from the last DI chamber and
fill it with washed aragonite or some other sort of slow-dissolving
mineral that would boost the PH of the make-up water prior to releasing
it into the tank.
<<Maybe, but I'm skeptical the sand will make much
(enough) difference...perhaps if finely ground>>
Whatever is used
would need to dissolve slowly because water sits in the cartridge all
day and is released into the tank very slowly.
<<I recommend you
place about a cup of Kalkwasser in the last chamber. This configuration
would work similar to the Tunze Kalkwasser dosing system:
https://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_dosing_pumps_top_off_tunze_osmolator.asp?CartId=
>>
I love the auto-top-off in that it keeps the salinity in my tank
at a very stable level and reduces the number of trips I have to make up
the stairs with a bucket of make-up water, but I do not like the idea of
putting water into the system without buffering it first.
<<Nor do
I>>
Do you think that this would work? Would you use aragonite?
<<I would try the Kalkwasser>>
Do you know of anything else that may
work better?
<<Dosing through a dedicated Kalkwasser
reactor such as this (https://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=PM4111),
but I think just adding some Kalk to the last chamber on your filter
unit might do the trick...would save the added expense of a reactor>>
Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated!
Best
Regards,
Bart
<<Cheers, EricR>> High pH and low calcium...
pouring in dem chem.s 4/18/06
Hey Crew,
<Eric>
I can't seem to figure out the chemistry in my reef tank. My afternoon
pH is shooting up to about 8.8
<Yikes!>
and my calcium is
dropping to less than 200 ppm,
<Yes... can be antagonistic,
"mutually exclusive">
while my alk is staying around 8-9 dKH. Other
factors are staying the same Nitrate 2-4, Nitrite 0.
I have been
dosing with CaOH,
<... here's the issue, along with...>
and
sodium Bicarbonate. I have been placing the mixtures in the sump at
separate ends.
<...>
I was wondering what was causing the Ca
to precipitate out of solution while my pH is still so high.
<Mmm,
the calcium carbonate is leaving the hydroxyl bonds behind... Stop!>
Tank specs:
180 gallon
300 lbs live rock
200 lbs live sand
Filtration is just a skimmer. (1/4 - 1/2 cup of skimmate a day)
A
few fish and a few corals (2 hard, 5 soft).
What should I do to fix
the problem?
<Read:
http://wetwebmedia.com/calcalkmar.htm
and the linked files at
top. Bob Fenner>
Thanks for the help, and all the past help
Eric
pH and Calcium supplements 4/10/06
What product do you recommend
to raise pH and calcium levels?
<<Be sure you understand and test
for Alkalinity. pH measures how acidic or basic the water
is. Alkalinity measures the buffering capacity of the water, or in
other words, the ability of the water to resist changes in pH. Both are
very important, and alkalinity is widely under-appreciated. In any
case, Kalkwasser is very useful in supporting pH, Alkalinity and
calcium. It is cheap and easy to use. Grocery store pickling lime can
be substituted for cost savings. B-Ionic by ESV, C-Balance by
TwoLittleFishies and TechAB by Kent are all two part preparations (one
part calcium, one part alkalinity) that work extremely well and are
extremely convenient to use, but are somewhat expensive. There are
recipes for "home brew" two part additives floating about the internet,
but are probably best followed only by those with some chemistry
background. Last, but not least... you can use commercially available
dry calcium and alkalinity additives. They are cheaper than two part
additive systems but require a bit more care in their use. Tropic-Marin
makes a great dry product called BioCalcium that adds calcium and
alkalinity in one product. Any of the above can work very well. Best
Regards. AdamC.>> Adding Bi-Carb Soda for Ph
3/31/06
Hi Bob,
<Joe>
In your book you mention adding
Sodium Bi Carbonate to maintain the required kalinity in a SW tank. I am
confused as to whether your prescribed amount of 5 grams per 20 gallons
is what we should add each week based on the entire volume of system
water or just the amount of water that we are replacing?
<Better
just for replacing. The actual bolstering and maintaining of "enough"
alkalinity is a bit more involved, and for the majority of systems
can/will be "made-up" with regular water changes. For some folks... with
lots of life/metabolism, feeding, inadequate "other" sources
(substrates, live rock), commercial alkalinity prep.s containing
carbonate/s, borate/s are sometimes a good idea>
Also, does Sodium
Bi-carbonate have a limiting Ph (i.e. it will not go higher than a
certain ph value regardless of how much is added) or will it keep
raising the Ph past the desired range of 8.0 - 8.5?
<Does have a
limit... all else "being equal" (what universe is that?) Sodium
Bicarbonate will not elevate (by itself) pH more than about 7.8>
Although sometimes I get confused as to whether Bi Carb Soda raises the
pH or the alkalinity??
<Will... as you will see through
experimentation, application. I do wish I had the capacity to "re-teach"
folks such important concepts as "non-Euclidean" thinking... basic
chemistry that is non-linear, multiple factored... instead of hints and
glimpses as here. Perhaps a stint back as a H.S. Science teacher would
do me. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Joe Low pH 3/16/06
I have a 72 gallon reef tank with the salinity at 1.024, the kH at
12dkh, the calcium at 400ppm, and my pH is at 7.8-8.0. I've tried
taking a bucket of the tank water and aerated it outside with a power
head on the bottom pushing the water up, did not help, I talked to
different LFS and it does not make sense to them. I tested my water
when I make it and is has the same pH of 7.8-8.0 as my tank.
<Mmm,
could be your salt brand/mix... this pH is not terribly low though...>
I have a SpectraPure 4 stage RO/DI unit that I run my water through,
I aerate it for 24hrs. and the pH is at 6.9-7.2. I add a 1/2 tsp. of
Kent dKH buffer. I let is aerate for another 24-48hrs with the power
head on the bottom of the bucket, my pH is then at 8.3-8.5. I have a
bucket of water that is just buffered for top off and one that I add
salt to. When I add the salt ( I've tried Oceanic, Oceanpure, and
Instant ocean )
<The last is best/better>
to the water the pH
drops from the 8.3-8.5 down to 7.8-8.0 instantly and stays there, even
48hrs. later, I buffered the salt mixed water after 48hrs. up to 12dkh
even tried up to 14dkh, after 24hrs the pH is back at 7.8-8.0.
<Mmm,
might be your "tester"...>
I have thoroughly read through the
other situations posted on your site and could not locate a situation
like this. If you have any suggestions please let me know, which I will
greatly appreciate. Your site is an excellent site with a huge amount of
information that has been very helpful to me in learning the hobby as my
setup is going on 2yrs. old. All my fish and corals look healthy which
is the main thing.
<Well, there are other chemical prep.s you could
avail yourself of... but if it were me, my system, I would first, check
your checker... with another pH test kit/device, and not be overly
concerned re the measures you list. Rest assured, many aquaculture and
public aquarium settings have far lower values. Bob Fenner>
High pH in reef system 03/9/06
Hello WWM crew, <Hello
Gary.>
My reef system has been up and running for the past 2 years
with no real problems up until now. I have found some good info on your
site to reduce my pH but the pH seems to go back up within a few
hours. Here are the water parameters:
tank: 50 gallons 36L x 18W x
18H
live rock: about 100lbs.
sand: 2-4 inches
sump: 20
gallons with 20lbs. live rock
skimmer: EV 180
main return surge
6000 (850gph) with 4 MaxiJet 1200's in main tank
2 250w metal halide
10K about 6-8 inches over water
salinity: 32ppt
alk: 3.0
calcium: 430-450
ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 2-3
phosphate: 0
sps: 15 (all about 2-3 inches in size)
LPS: 1 (frogspawn)
2
gorgonians
fish: one clownfish 1.5 inches one watchman goby 3 inches
one Naso tang 5 inches this tank also serves as a quarantine tank for
fish, he will be going into the 300 next week)
feeding: one large
chunk of frozen Mysid shrimp per day Cyclop-Eeze per day cocktail of
marine snow, phyto, and zooplankton per day pellets and flake 3 times a
day
About a month ago I hooked up a pH monitor and began to notice
the pH steadily increase from 8.2 to 8.61 today. I have checked the pH
probe and it is working fine. (tested on my other tank and it is holding
steady at 8.18) I have recalibrated it twice and still I get the same
readings. I do not use Kalk but a 2 part SeaChem system of alkalinity
and calcium. I am dosing the maximum of 2 teaspoons of each every other
day to keep up with my tanks alk and calcium needs. When I add them to
the tank I do not see any change in the pH so I am assuming that this is
not the problem. I have used a few tricks from you web site to lower my
pH such as blowing into the protein skimmer, which works but the pH will
quickly return to 8.61 within an hour), adding white distilled vinegar
which will lower the pH for 3-5 hours before returning to 8.61). <I
wouldn't keep adding both parts of the SeaChem mix every other
day. First I'd concentrate on the dKH and get that up to 8-12, then
take a calcium reading and see what you have. If need adjust
accordingly for a level between 350-400. This is what I don't like
about the two part products. I use Sea Chem myself but use Reef Builder
and Reef Advantage Calcium (powder form). James (Salty Dog)>
As
always thanks for your help.<You're welcome.>
Garrett Hoskins
Ph / Co2 03/07/06
Good day crew. <And to you Mark.>
In starting my question I would like to thank you for such a
wealth
of info. <You're welcome.> My question/concern is in regard to Ph in my
system. I am
currently seeing only about a .1 PH drop over night.
<Nothing wrong with that.> I have a refugium with
Chaeto which runs
on a reverse cycle. <Which is why you are not seeing much of a ph drop.>
Which I am assuming is keeping the drop this low. My lights on Ph is
running around 8.05 and will drop to around 7.95 over night. I have
found what I believe is the problem. After taking a glass of tank water
outside for a couple of hours the Ph rises to around 8.2. I am using
baked baking soda as a buffer. My alk is 10.5 and my ca is 420. I am
thinking that Co2 in my house air is the culprit. <Unlikely unless you
have about 20 people living there.> My plan is to run the air line to
my skimmer outside and to also run an airline to a MaxiJet powerhead to
aerate my Make up and water change H20. Ph is measured via a Pinpoint
monitor. My target is 8.25. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on my
plan. <Best to aerate the new water 24 hours before adding salt, this
will ensure all CO2 is removed. The pH problem you are experiencing is
very minor to say the least. Thank you in advance <You're
welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Mark
Big pH drop in
quarantine tank ... forgetting Arm/and Hammer - 02/16/2006
Hi
guys,
I have returned to the saltwater arena after a two year
absence. Had a 125 gallon for about 3 years
previously. I have
two tanks. The main tank is a new 125 gallon which has been cycled with
90 lbs of live
rock for about 5 weeks. It has no fish.
Parameters: temp- 80 F, Nitrates 10 ppm, Nitrites 0, pH 8.2, ammonia 0.
Quarantine tank has been running for 24 hours before the fish was placed
and a sponge and filter that was in my main tank for 2 days was placed
in it. QT has a
Whisper power filter rated for 20 gallon tanks. QT
Parameters: temp 80, Nitrates 10 ppm, Nitrites 0, pH 8.0, ammonia 0.
The QT tank was filled with half fresh saltwater that had been aged for
2-3 days and half water from my main tank.
I have a 4 inch volitans
lionfish in a 20 long quarantine tank for the 2nd day today. I
acclimated her yesterday and she did fine overnight. I did not feed
her. I fed 3 tiny feeder shrimp today which she ate well. I will train
her to take non live marine foods ASAP. Attempted some frozen krill
first but she spit it out. I quickly removed the uneaten krill. After
she ate the feeder shrimp I did a 20 percent water change with fresh
same aged fresh saltwater.
About three hours later when I looked in
the tank she was gasping and very pale and lethargic.
I then quickly
checked the pH in the QT and it was about 7.6. I then did a 4O percent
water change using water from my main tank and almost immediately her
color improved and went back to normal and respirations slowed and she
became more active.
<Good observations, relating>
I have now
added an airstone and turned out the lights and she looks better. I
will probably not feed again for a day or two. Should I change the
water again tomorrow using water from my main tank only and if so how
much do you think I should change.
Any other suggestions you have
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Brian
<I would continue as
you state with one change. Using simple baking soda to bolster
(increase) your alkalinity. Sodium bicarbonate is safe to maintain pH
longer... in this setting, though one could avail themselves of using a
commercial buffering product (which are largely... baking soda). Bob
Fenner> High pH in seahorse tanks?! 2/9/06
Hello WWM crew:) I have a concern that I would like to run by
you. Though I have never really had a problem of this nature in the
past, it seems as though my luck has run out. I recently tested the pH
of my three dwarf seahorse tanks, and the results were completely
different for each of the three tanks- 8.2, 8.4 and 8.7. I know the
first two values are acceptable, but the 8.7 is concerning me,
especially since it is a juvenile tank. I have not seen any ill effects
as of yet, but I know that value is well beyond the normal range these
animals are accustomed to. Any ideas as to what I can look into?
<... what is different about this last system? Substrate, use of ozone,
UV?... water treatments?>
I tested the KH for all three, and all of
the tanks tested between 9-10 dKH, so I know this is not being caused by
excessive alkalinity. I have not added any calcium or other mineral
supplements at all as well...so I am a bit baffled. I would not say
there is an excess of photosynthetic activity either, and I am not
overly aerating the tanks. Any ideas?
Thanks again,
D Conners
<Mmm, I would not be overly concerned here... there is a good deal of
physiological adaptation (esp. over time) re pH and most marine fish
groups... Bob Fenner> High pH 2/8/06
Bob <James
today>
I have come across the WetWebMedia website and find it
extremely useful in helping me maintain my marine tank, <Good to hear.>
however recently I have had enormous
problems with my tank, I have a
PH spike with a reading of 9.6. With the result of the high PH I have
lost all my fish except for one blue
devil damsel who seems to be
doing fine. Is there a way in which I can lower my PH and how do I go
about doing it, I am unaware as to what is
causing this PH spike.
<Very unusual to get a ph reading that high. Have you confirmed with a
different test kit? What is the dKH and salinity reading of your
water? One way to lower the ph is dosing Sea Chem's Acid Buffer. This
is a freshwater product so it won't be found in the marine section of
your LFS. DO NOT follow the dosing instructions on the bottle, use half
that amount and no more than one dose per day and monitoring ph levels
daily.>
Could you please assist.
Many thanks <You're
welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Mohammed
Re: High PH
Bob <James again>
Thank you for your feed back, my salinity of my
water is 1.023 and alkalinity reading is 23, which is very high, <Is
this 23 dKH? Yeow.> I have not tested with a different kit but that
shall be my next option I shall also try the Sea Chem acid buffer. <Just
remember not to full dose. We don't want that ph coming down more than
.2 per day. James (Salty Dog)>
Mohammed
Low pH
02-05-06
Hi there. Congrats, very helpful site. <Thank you.>
Quick question. I just set up a 24x16x16 nano with a 3 inches sandbed
(half aragonite, half crushed coral) and 28 lbs of cured live rock. I
plugged a Prizm skimmer (seems not to be quite effective, not too much
skimmate, very pale),<Tank is too new to realize much skimmate.>
AquaClear 50 with Coralife carbon, and three 150 gal/h powerheads. Light
fixture with three t5 30 watts-each bulbs, two 10 000 k whites and one
blue actinic. So far I'm just turning on the blue one four hours a day.
It's been two weeks since then. Ammonia=0, nitrites=0, nitrates=20,
alk=10, calcium=420, pH=8. I tested pH with 2 different kits from
different manufacturer and both of them read 8. I've been
using C-Balance from "two little fishies", once full cap of each bottle
once a week. Is this pH reading low or is it ok??? Should I try to raise
it??? If so, I got "Seachem Marine buffer" from a friend, could I use
this product? How often?... <Ph not dangerously low at all. Pretty
typical in new set ups. If your dKH is 10, why would you want to add
buffer? Concentrate on 10% weekly water changes along with vacuuming
the substrate while doing. Do search our site, keywords, ph/alkalinity
and learn more here.>
p.s. Overall, is it a good set up? <Sounds
good.> I think I'm on time to make any necessary fixes.
Thanks a
lot, and greetings from Guadalajara, Mexico. <You're welcome. James
(Salty Dog)> Low stable pH good? 2/3/06
First, thanks for an excellent site with a great knowledge repository.
<Thank you.> I have been reading through the questions related to pH
and I am sure there has been an answer to my question(s) so I apologize
for any redundancy. Here is a little info on the tank, 90g with 30g
refugium with venturi skimmer, mixed reef but slowing converting to SPS
only. The tank is 1.3 years old. The pH is consistently 7.8 to 8.0
regardless of am or pm according to the liquid test kit I use, temp
76-78, alk 4.5 meg/l, magnesium 1450, nitrate 15, calcium 460, <I'd keep
this around 400.> salinity 1.023 (swing arm). I do 15% weekly water
changes. <Good> I do not see anything negative in the tank that leads to
believe that my parameters are off, good coral growth, very minimal
algae growth on glass.
However, from what I have read it seems to
indicate pH of 8.3 is ideal. As with most reefers I am seeking
perfection and the optimal reef which is what keeps me passionate about
the hobby, so do I need to worry about adjusting pH or changing other
parameters? Also, my nitrates never fluctuate, but I have never been
able to get it below 15. Any advice would be appreciated.
<Let's
deal with the ph first. You are not dangerously low so no need to worry
here. What will help get your ph up is aerating your water change
water 24 hours before you add the salt. This will insure all carbon
dioxide is removed, one of the causes of low ph. Overfeeding, filter
pads not being changed/cleaned on a weekly basis is another negative
along with overstocking a tank. Vacuuming the substrate during water
changes will also aid in raising the ph. In a nutshell, the more
organics you can remove from the system, the better off you will be in
regards to both ph and nitrate levels. Do search our site for topics on
nutrient control and nitrates for more information. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks Praise for you and High pH 2/1/06
Hi
Guys,
<Howdy>
I have a 200 litre corner tank with a 40 litre
Miracle Mud/Caulerpa/Chaetomorpha sump.
Set-up is as follows;
Sump Turnover: 1700 Lph pump and Lifereef overflow box
Tank
Turnover:4 Maxijet 900 powerheads.
50 kg live rock
65w actinic
PC
65w daylight PC
150w Metal halide
The system is setup for
two months now with 10 hermits 15 Trochus snails and one serpent star,
all doing well and I have no plans to introduce fish for another month
or two.
Parameters are as follows:
Temp: 77-79F
salinity:
52ppt American Marine Meter
pH: see below
Calcium: 400
dKH: 11
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0-2.5
Phosphate:
0-0.3
Weekly 5% water change with IO salt and RO water all aerated
and aged. I add 1/4 teaspoon Kent Turbo calcium and 5ml Reef Solution
per week.
At the moment I feed the tank a small piece of homemade
food (a la Fenner and TCMA) which is taken greedily by the starfish and
crabs but I suspect is behind the nitrates and Phosphates which had
settled at 0.
I dose Kalkwasser via automatic top up and a Ratz
reactor. Under normal circumstances pH is from 8.43 in the morning to
8.57 at full lights on. I add Kalk to the reactor weekly or when I see
the morning pH drop into the 8.3s
My question- sometimes my pH
rises as high as 8.7. I can see no obvious reason for this, perhaps
excessive evaporation?
<Mmm, no. Tis the Kalk, reactor...>
Should I worry about this, try and manipulate it or just leave what
appears to be well enough, alone?
<I would do the latter... nothing>
I think the tank is close to a point where all is well, stable
parameters, tons of life, no algae, and coralline algae growth taking
off, and all in no small part to you guys and WWM. Thanks, and if you
were ever looking for someone to contribute to the site on sumps,
overflows etc., talk to Jeff at LifeReef, a font of knowledge and really
obliging.
regards,
David
<No worries re the pH here. In time
you will see/find this drifting lower. Bob Fenner>
High pH
1/26/06
Good Afternoon all, <Good morning Dave.>
I currently
monitor my PH with a PH monitor and have had consistently high readings.
8.45 -8.57 late in the day and 8.4 in the morning hours. <Not really
that high.>I run a refugium on reverse lighting cycle and have tested
the PH probe several times. I have had C02 problems in the past and have
temporarily stopped using a calc reactor for the last seven months and
use a two part calcium\buffer. I do water changes every three weeks.
My question is what are some potential causes of excessive high PH? As
always thank you for your time. <Dave, I'm assuming you have a good
macro algae growth in the refugium. Plants utilize carbon dioxide and
eventually the bicarbonate ions during photosynthesis and give off
oxygen. If your tank has poor buffering and excessive plant life, the
ph level, during the photo period, can rise. The slight increase in ph
is caused by carbon dioxide below atmospheric equilibrium levels. With
lights out, the carbon dioxide will rise thus lowering the ph
slightly. I'm thinking you must keep your tank pretty clean since
average levels of dissolved organics will lead to a lowering of
ph. James (Salty Dog)>
Dave M. Seachem marine buffer 8.3 and
Kent nano reef 01/01/2006
Hi, first of all happy new year
to you all :D <And to you>
I've been running my
tank for quite a while now and my pH seems to be fluctuating between 7.8
to about 8.0.
I believe it seems a bit on the low side and was
wondering if adding Seachem marine buffer 8.3, i.e. the one that says
will maintain pH at 8.3 would be any good to my system. At the moment
I'm not adding any additives, just salt water only.
I was hoping
to raise the pH to 8.2 or 8.3. My alkalinity at the moment is around
8dKH and I hope adding SeaChem's marine buffer won't over dose it to
ultra high dKH. <I like Sea Chem's Reef Builder, will increase dKH
gradually.>
Also a side question. I want to
eventually keep LPSs, I understand they use calcium. My calcium is
around 370 ppm at the moment and was wondering if the Kent nano reef 2
part do well if I also use SeaChem marine buffer at the same time ?
Would the SeaChem buffer or the part B Kent nano reef be affected by
each other in terms of alkalinity etc...as I do not want to get silly
high dKH. Yet keep my calcium around 430-450. <Personally I don't like
the Part A/B additives. Your best bet would be Sea Chem's Reef Builder
and Reef Calcium (both in the dry formula)>.
Everything else is fine in my 20 gallon tank :D only got a single zoo
polyp (there's an old anemone next to it that's disturbing it slightly
though and I can't get it away from my zoo :( - came with my live
rock) and a mushroom rock.
Thanks for everything and good health to
you all for the new year :D <Thank you. James (Salty Dog)>
Ern
Re: Seachem marine buffer 8.3 and Kent nano reef - 1/6/06
Hi again, sorry to trouble you again. <Not a problem>
I have dosed SeaChem's Marine buffer 8.3 and my water parameters which
are relevant are at dKH of 11 I believe. I was using Nutrafin's KH/GH
test kit and KH was determined at 210, which I divided by 17.9 to obtain
the dKH value. <OK>
My water pH is at 7.90 this
morning, I believe it is still a bit on the low side though I do not
want to buffer the water any further as that may lead to over buffering
with little effect on my pH. <Yes, your dKH is OK. The ph isn't
dangerously low.>
My aim is to get morning pH to
8.2 or 8.3 however I am unable to achieve this and do not know how to
solve the problem. I tried the aerated water test, by getting a cup of
water from the tank and aerating it outside in my garden for 5 minutes,
stirring it vigorously. I manage to obtain a pH rise of 0.05, i.e. my
reading was 7.95.
Does that mean my CO2 level is
causing my low pH in my tank or could it be other reasons ? I have only
2 clown fish and a mushroom rock together with 22 lbs of live rock, a
Prizm skimmer by red sea and a SEIO 820 pump for flow and MH lighting
all in a 20 gallon tank. <I always recommend aerating make up water and
water used for water changes for 24 hours to remove excess CO2. And
yes, CO2 will lower your ph along with any other acidic conditions that
exist in your tank such as uneaten food, detritus in the sand
bed/substrate etc. Do you vacuum the substrate during water changes?>
Please advise. I'll be trying to test my newly made salt water in a
few days when I do a water change to see if it is the salt mix. apart
from that, would there be any way on such a small tank to increase pH to
8.2 / 8.3 safely without increasing KH further. <Ernest, unlike
salinity, heat and nitrogen levels where the more you add the more you
have, you cannot add ph, its not a substance, it is a measurement scale
of the hydrogen ion level in water which indicates the acidity
conditions. Keeping nitrate levels low, weekly water changes, vacuuming
the substrate and a careful feeding routine all contribute to reducing
acidic conditions that cause low ph. Do monitor dKH at least on a
weekly basis. Another point is to clean your skimmer cup weekly. I use
the same skimmer on my 30 mini reef and it is amazing how much gunk gets
collected in the riser tube in this short time. In not doing so greatly
reduces the effectiveness of the skimmer.>
Thanks,
you crew are always helpful and I very much appreciate your help.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Ern pH and alkalinity
Hello again. <Hello Stephan>
Thanks again with all the previous
advice you have so generously given. <You're welcome. I only wish you
would have replied with the original query relating to this as to
refresh my memory as to what was said.> My
question today is
regarding Calcium, pH and Alkalinity. I have a 175 gal. reef with a 4"
sugar size sand bed and 200 lbs of live rocks. I also have two
refugiums. The upstream is 45 gal. with Chaeto and no sand at this time.
the other is a 50 gal downstream with a 4" seafloor sand bed and live
rock without lights. Including the sump this amounts to about 300 gal.
The system has been running for now almost a month and testing show
consistent with a PH: 8.0 Calcium: 400 and Alk:6.2. PH and Alk seem low.
<Ph not bad, alk a little low. 8-12dkh is what I'd strive for.> I have
been having a hard time raising the pH to 8.3 and alk above 7. I am
using R.O. DI water
for salt mix and evaporation. <Do you aerate the
RO/DI water 24 hours before mixing in the salt. Need to get rid of any
CO2 that may be present.> The pH for the R.O is a 7.6 which I buffer to
bring it up to 8.6. Some of this R.O water is used every day to replace
evaporation water. So the buffered fresh water is now mixed with
incoming low pH water thru the float valve. I don't know what to do
except adding buffer on a daily basis which seems extreme in my opinion.
How do I keep the water buffered in the R.O reservoir? <???By using
buffer. I'd mix the buffer in a separate container till dissolved
before adding to the reservoir.> Also In my mixing reservoir I get this
white chalky residue on the bottom and walls. <Do not add any buffer to
this reservoir until the salt is completely mixed. Again, do aerate the
water 24 hours before adding salt and do mix buffers in a separate
container before adding. I use a one quart milk jug, cap and shake well.
Something is going on in your process causing precipitation of
buffers/calcium already present in the salt mix. James (Salty Dog)>
Stephan Gaudreau <Any tie-ins with the Wallendas?:)>
Trapeze Arts,
Inc.
Re: ph and alkalinity 1/16/06
Thank you for
your quick response. Even on the week end, wow! <You're welcome>
Yes, my RO is agitated or aerated with a mag drive 3, 24/7. Is it OK to
have this pump intake and return submerged? <??The intake has to be
submerged. The return should break the waters surface for proper air
exchange.> The R.O. water enters a 20 gal. reservoir and filled until
the float valve shuts off. To that reservoir an automated pump takes
water out of the sump when the level drops 1".Should I worry about the
new low pH water entering the reservoir and buffer it? <I wouldn't be
too concerned with it. The top off water is going to be a very low
percentage of the total volume. Do monitor ph/alk in the display and
buffer when necessary.> I do not know at this time how much evaporation
I get each day in the system but my guess is 5 gal/day. <Seems like a
lot for a 175 gallon tank.> Can I rely on both DSBs to buffer the tanks.
<It will help some.> For water exchange regimen I empty the 20 gal.
reservoir into a similar reservoir. Then I put in the salt mix and mix
it with a mag 7 for three days until I exchange it with the same amount
from the sump. I do this two times a week which amounts to about 15% a
week. Is this good? <Ten percent would be sufficient, and yes it's good
to do weekly water changes.> At this time I have not much of bioload
except hermits and snails. I feed a home made sea food blend <Be careful
on overfeeding as this can/will lead to lower ph.> every other day to
help with the pods population.
I would like to add some kind animal.
What do you suggest? Brittle star?
sand sifting goby? Feather
duster? I know this might be too soon <With a one month old tank there
isn't going to be much of a food supply for brittle stars without
supplemental feedings.> but I would
like my first coral to be
Ricordea Florida. When should I add one of these. <You could add it now
keeping in mind proper lighting requirements for these inverts.>
One
last question. In the refugium with live rocks and DSB do I need sand
sifters and what should they be? <A sand sifting starfish works well
but wouldn't add this until your system gets some age to it.> In the
Chaeto refuge do I need a DSB? <Not necessary, 1 1/2 inches works well
giving you something to anchor the Chaeto down with.
Do read about
DSB's and refugiums on the Wet Web Media. Loads of info here to help
you.> Thank you so much for everything. <You're welcome. James (Salty
Dog)>
Stephan
Salt Water pH 1/1/06
My pH is
running 8.8 after adding a buffer last night. All the info I find
tells me how to raise the PH, but nothing about lowering it. Is
8.8 safe?
Or should I try a water change? <I believe
you will see it gradually lowering within a few days. You can lower ph
by using SeaChem's Acid Buffer (freshwater), but only half dose. Your
pH isn't dangerously high so I'd leave well enough alone.>
Thanks!
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Falling pH
12/24/05
Hopefully this is the right forum to ask this.
I
have a new 75g tank - cycled for 2 weeks w/ no fish. 1 partial (25%)
water change before adding fish. I added 4 damsels and 4 redleg hermits
(I was already getting algae). It is now 2 weeks later and I am having
a problem with the ph falling. I have done 1 25% water change, which
helped, but the ph is falling again to 7.6.
I have 1 1/2" of crushed
coral on the bottom and DIY base rock that I cycled for 4 months. <what
salt mixture are you using? I would read over the faq's on the
wetwebmedia.com website on pH buffer... You need to use a pH buffer to
get the pH to 8.2 to 8.4. I would use a good salt mixture. such as
instant ocean, etc. good luck, IanB.>
Any suggestions???
Thanks!
Dan pH Woes 12/15/05
Hello Crew,
<Michael>
Once again I find my self seeking your guidance. Your site is
invaluable to us amateurs. Thanks for all of your work. First let me
assure you that I have been searching the FAQ's for the answer but I
cannot find an exact fit. I have a recently established 210 gallon reef
tank with an 85 gallon sump. Circulation is as follows, return pump
Iwaki 100 RLT t'd to two returns, three closed loop systems cycle on/off
randomly every 7-10 minutes powered by 3- Gen X 40 pumps. Skimmer is an
MRC MR-3 powered by a Gen PCX-55. Lighting on the tank is 3 250 MH's and
I am in the process of adding two 6ft super actinic VHO's ( as soon as
the canopy is back from the wood shop).
<For looks I'll presume>
Make up water is all run through a 100 GPD RO/DI system - TDS meter
shows 90 ppm on incoming, 0 ppm on outgoing.
<Good>
Make up
water contains Fiji gold in it -settled to the bottom. Water change
routine is accumulate 30 gallons of RO/DI water, put in a submersible
pump for 24 hours and bring the water to temp, mix in salt and let it
circulate for another 24 hours. Tank contains approx 200 lbs of live
rock (88 Pukani, 88 Kaelini and 40 Fiji premium), 80lbs Fiji live sand
(approx. 2 inches deep) and I have added Aragonite fine sand as well as
some Crushed coral to increase the depth to one quarter of the tank and
plan to continue until I have approx 5"DSB - one quarter at a time over
a decent period.
After approx 2.5 weeks, the tank cycled
and Ammonia and Nitrite 0, Nitrate approx. 60 so I started the next
phase adding 11 small green Chromis. Small bloom of diatoms ensued and
after about two weeks I added an assortment clean up crew of approx 70
hermits and snails who cleaned up the tank nicely. There are two sand
sifting starfish in there but I have discovered that they should be
removed as they will eliminate the fauna population rather quickly.
<Yes>
I also added two percula clowns, a yellow tang, two Anthias
and one wrasse all of which went through a 5 week quarantine.
<Good>
Water parameters: Temp fluctuates between 77.3 and 77.6, Ammonia 0,
Nitrite 0, nitrate 30, calcium 390, ORP 300, DKH 10, PH was running at
8.3 to 8.33, however over the last week I have noticed the pH escalating
and the daily swings getting larger - with today being the worst - 8.37
at 6:00 am lights on and 8.51 at 2:00 pm lights off.
<Mmm, not a
problem... this shift/range is induced at this stage by your lighting,
mix of photosynthates/algae... alkaline reserve will be nicked away in a
short while on its own>
I do not have hair algae although I have
noticed that the rock is obtaining a green tinge almost as if you
spotted it with a pale green magic marker. I am sure that being a novice
is the problem and I am bit stumped since I know low PH is the norm. I
was going to shorten the photo period to soften the swings - good idea?
Any other suggestions/sources of the problem? Thank you very much for
your time.
Michael
<I would
not be concerned with the data you present, your set-up... All appears
to be about right, and will be self-correcting... Aging captive aquatic
systems are "reductive" (as in RedOx)... go acidic... Cheers, Bob
Fenner> Question regarding symptoms of low pH 12/2/05
Hey guys. Happy Holidays!
<And to you Bryan>
I have a 30 gallon
tank that had a nitrate/nitrite disaster several weeks ago because the
biological filter was not established, and I lost all my fish. After
running the tank for two weeks the biological cycle stabilized and
nitrate,
nitrite, ammonia, pH, salinity were all fine.
<Two weeks
is not enough time>
3 days ago I bought 2 small false percula
clowns, 2 small damsels and a small yellow tang (I know...the fish are
incompatible...sorry!).
<Too many fish to add at once to a 30 gallon
tank.>
The fish all seemed to do fine the first 12 hours, but then
they all started breathing very rapidly and scratching
<The
scratching hints at a parasitic disease.>
against the sand and
decor. Both clownfish died. I checked all the levels and they were all
fine. I was very worried about losing the tang and 2 damsels so I
brought a water sample to my local pet store. The guy there, when he
heard the symptom "rapid breathing" immediately said that either I had
bad aeration or low pH.
<<I wonder how he can narrow it down so
quickly considering the host of maladies that cause this symptom.
Marina>>
I knew my aeration was not a problem since I have high
water tension and lots of bubbles. So he checked the pH of my water and
it was 7.9-8.0. This was so strange to me because I had checked the pH
with my test kit at home and I got 8.3. It's unbelievable that my test
kit was inaccurate! Well, I bought another one, and when I went home,
yes, my pH was low.
<7.9/8.0 is not dangerously low. My system
rarely exceeds 8.1. Inexpensive test kits are not dead on accurate, but
close enough for our needs.>
But still, I am confused. I have never
read anything that low pH causes rapid breathing.
<I never heard of
it either. There probably are other problems involved along with the low
ph that would cause rapid breathing.>
<<Me, three. Marina>>
I have only seen info that parasites such as ich causes rapid breathing.
Please confirm yes or no: can low pH indeed cause rapid breathing and
scratching?
<In that regard alone, very unlikely.>
I have a
suspicion that the pet store expert has incorrectly correlated the rapid
breathing symptom with low pH.
<All pet shop owners are not
necessarily "experts".>
<<I bet he calls himself an expert, watch
out for that type of over-confidence, and do rely on checking up via
other sources. Marina>>
Yes, I did have low pH, but perhaps
there is still another mystery culprit? There are no visible symptoms of
parasites so I have very little to work on.
<You generally don't see
the signs until the cells of the parasite start to multiply just before
bursting into many more parasites looking for a host.>
At the current
time I am slowly raising pH.
<<OH GOD DON'T DO THIS!!! When
and how are we going to get people to stop mucking around with this
parameter when it isn't necessary? Marina>>
Hopefully the
rest of the fish will make it, but they are still breathing very fast.
If low pH is not a possible cause of fast breathing, please let me know
so that I can continue my investigation. What are other possible causes
of fast breathing and scratching besides parasites?
<Could be a
chemical compound in the water such as over-spray from Windex etc. Here
is a link to our site with FAQ's on the subject.
http://www.google.com/custom?q=rapid+breathing&sa=Google+Search&sitesearch=wetwebmedia.com
>
Thank you very much for reading my long-winded question.
<You're welcome>
I really do appreciate your help because I know you
guys are very knowledgeable and I can depend on your answers. THANK
YOU!
<James (Salty Dog)> Low pH and dKH in a Reef Tank
12/2/05
Hello and thank you for your wonderful site!
<Hello
and thank you.>
I have a 4-month old 40 gallon saltwater tank (live
rock), with recently-added corals (star polyps, red mushrooms positioned
rather close to star polyps,
<How close? At least a few inches I
hope.>
button polyps, yellow scroll coral, xenia). Also present are 2
firefish, 5 Chromis, 2 cone snails, a bubble brittlestar, 2 peppermint
shrimp, and a few snails and hermits. There has been a lot of brown
algae, possibly diatoms according to LFS, plaguing my tank from the
beginning.
<Quite common in new tanks for diatoms to emerge due to
the presence of excess nutrients. Water flow and Water changes are your
friend.>
Suddenly, 3 days ago, the brown algae disappeared: the water
is crystal clear and the sand is becoming white again. At exactly the
same time, the xenia crunched down and stopped pulsing
<This is due
to your low pH, xenias tend to pulse on the higher side in my
experience, 8.3 to 8.4.>
and the star polyp retracted completely.
<Possibly also some issues with the pH. Star Polyps are also sensitive
to algae growing on top of them so for this reason they appreciate
healthy water flow.>
I should tell you that this was about 4 days
after adding the xenia, yellow scroll, and red mushrooms. My question is
this: is the sudden water clarity a good thing or a harbinger of
trouble;
<Well clean, relatively nutrient free water is the way you
will find it to be on a natural reef.>
if good, is this what's caused
the star polyp and xenia to retract, and they will recover over time?
<Possibly I would slowly buffer your pH to an acceptable range (I like
the 8.2 to 8.4 area) and keep it stable. Also the dKH is also a bit low
7-12 is the best in my experience.>
Here are measurements just after
everything changed:
temperature 76-80 F
salinity 1.022
<Acceptable, though also a little low for a reef tank.>
nitrate 0
phosphate 0
pH 7.8-7.9
dKH 6.4
<Both are a bit low as mentioned
above.>
Calcium 475 ppm
Noting low pH and dKH, I started adding a
bit of B-Ionic Part 1 (alkalinity solution). Now the pH is 8.2, and dKH
is 8.0,
<That's better but I hope you did not raise it to quickly,
also you need to find out why it dropped so low to begin with so that
you can keep it from happening again.>
but the star polyp is still
hiding and the xenia are kind of compressed looking (though they
occasionally pulse a tentacle weakly). Have you experienced this sort of
thing?
<I would give them time now, and don't move them around. These
are sensitive creatures. Though the star polyps are highly adaptable and
my guess would be that they will eventually thrive. The Xenia is notably
"less-tough" to such changes.>
Will the star polyp adapt?
<Should
see my above comments about algae and water flow.>
Should I take out
the red mushrooms, having learned from your site that they are stingers
-- they're quite close to the star polyps.
<If they are touching each
other, yes they need to be moved.>
Many thanks!!
<Welcome, Adam
J.> - New tank, low pH, High Alkalinity - 11/30/05
I
wish I had found The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, The New Marine
Aquarium, and this web site before I pursued a saltwater tank. Six
months ago, my wife purchased a used 54-gallon FOWLR corner marine
aquarium for my birthday - something I've wanted since before we were
married 11 years ago. It has consumed much of my disposable income,
given me hours of enjoyment,
<I understand entirely>
and now has
the following equipment (some of which came with the setup):
a)
Magnum external canister filter
b) Three power-heads (two with
rotating heads)
c) one small HOB refugium (opposite light-dark cycle
w/ Chaetomorpha)
d) 1/4 hp chiller unit (I could not keep the temp
below 88-degrees Fahrenheit without one)
e) One Penn-Plax Cascade 600
internal filter
f) Approx 75 lbs of live rock
g) Approx 1-inch
crushed aragonite bottom
h) Excalibur HV-1 HOB skimmer
I change 6
gallons of water each Sunday with RO/DI pre-mixed saltwater purchased
from my local fish store, except when I change the filter material. On
those days (about every six weeks), I change 12 gallons of water in the
event I release too many nitrates. The water is aerated for one week
prior to these changes.
<Good>
Salinity is 1.0235, and the
temperature is between 77 and 78 degrees Fahrenheit. My water
specifications (based upon test kits from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals):
pH - between 7.6 and 7.8 (also verified by the local fish store and a
Hagen test kit)
NH3 - 0 ppm
NO3
- 0 ppm
NO4 - 0 ppm
Based upon Salifert test
kits, the following specifications apply:
dKH - 9.2
Ca - 430
<How do you measure salinity? If it is with a swing-arm hydrometer, it
could be inaccurate (mine read specific gravity .006 too low). I would
verify your salinity, and then gradually bring it up to natural marine
levels (1.026 - 1.027). You may find the higher salinity will help you
support a higher pH.>
I realize the calcium is a little high.
<No,
this level is fine>
I previously used the FasTest calcium test, which
indicated the level between 380 and 420 ppm. When it was empty, I
switched to Salifert and the calcium read 500 ppm. The fish store
verified this reading, and it's been slowly falling for about 6 weeks.
I have not added buffer for two months, since all it did was raise
alkalinity (it was once over 14 dKH), but did not affect my pH.
<That's what buffer does>
In reality, I don't believe I ever got more
than 7.8 pH. I was advised by the fish store to allow the alkalinity to
fall a little more before adding buffer. I used a powdered-buffer, but
now have the two-step liquid solutions available. I test the pH in the
morning and at night, but do not find much of a difference between the
readings.
<It is very painful testing pH with liquid reagents... I
would recommend a (cheap) electronic pH meter>
I also have
Chaetomorpha in the main tank, green microalgae growing on the glass
(which I clean every 2 - 3 weeks), and coralline/green microalgae
growing on the rocks/powerheads. My fish (3 yellow Chromis, 2 blue
Chromis, two clowns, and one flame angel), 3 peppermint shrimp (which
helped, with Joe's Juice, to get ride some Aiptasia), hermit
crabs,
and snails, all appear to be doing well.
<Good>
Should I be
concerned about the low pH, or allow the alkalinity to drop and increase
the pH with a buffering agent?
<If everything is OK, I would not
loose too much sleep, but it would be nice to bring it up to more
"normal" levels, certainly. I would not allow the alkalinity to drop
much further>
I don't really know how else I can get the water into
closer balance. I must admit I do not test the new water prior to its
change, but again hesitate to add more buffering agents.
<Sam, with
only fish in the tank, there are no immediate worries here, but there
are a few things you could try. First of all, I would execute a series
of larger water changes to see if that brings the pH into check. I would
recommend testing the alkalinity and pH of your store-bought water to
ensure its efficacy. Larger regular water changes will likely also be
beneficial -- I try to change 15-20% weekly on my 55 gallon. I would
also undertake to either clean the canister filter and hang-on filter
more regularly (weekly or twice weekly), or remove them altogether (and
let your live rock and skimmer do the work) if this is unmanageable.
Without corals in the tank, calcium and alkalinity are not critical, but
I prefer to maintain alkalinity around or above 10 dKH to make
conditions less favourable to nuisance algaes. If you live in a
modern/well-insulated house, make sure the room your tank is in is well
ventilated.>
Thank you for your help and this great website.
Sam
<Good luck! And let me know if none of these approaches work.
John> pH follow-up - 11/30/05
Thank you for your
guidance.
<My pleasure>
I'll send you a follow-up in a few weeks
with the results. I purchased 10 gallons of RO saltwater yesterday (29
NOV 2005), and will make my change this Sunday after I complete the
aeration.
<Keep us posted>
Just a quick question - are the liquid
pH tests reliable? I have an electronic pH meter, but it may be too
cheap, as it gave me varied readings even after setting it to 7.01 with
the buffering agent.
<I prefer the electronic meters as I find the
colours for the liquid tests too subjective. Most pH probe/op-amp
arrangements should be accurate to within at least .05 units. Best
regards, John>
Sincerely yours,
Sam in Virginia Beach, VA
Follow-up (new tank, low pH) - 12/20/05
Thank you for your help
last month with my alkalinity and pH problems.
<You're
welcome!>
I increased my water changes to about 9 gallons a week,
and tested the replacement water. It had a good pH (8.3 - 8.4), but low
alkalinity (around 6 dKH). I started to bring my replacement water's
alkalinity up to "normal" before aeration, then testing it prior to
pouring it in the tank. My pH now runs at about 8.2 with a dKH of 11
and calcium at 450.
<Sounds good... I wouldn't let your
alkalinity get much higher>
I'm watching the calcium, as that level
obtained from the fish store seems to run a little high. However, at
least I don't need to worry about paying for supplements. The fish are
doing well. One blue Chromis died (reason unknown - it seemed okay the
previous night), but my new neon goby seems to be doing fine. I'll use
the money saved for a better skimmer.
<Good idea. Did you ever test
your salinity with a refractometer, and try to bring it up to natural
sea levels (1.026)? Best regards, John>
Depressed pH? -
11/29/05
Hello again,
<Hello Aaron. John here.>
I've been
trying to read up on all the information you make available to us, it's
difficult not to feel inundated, and perhaps a bit dense, I apologize
for constantly asking questions,
<No worries>
and thank you so
much for all the wonderful information. I've written many times before,
but I'll include my technical spec.s just the same, again thank you.
I have a 180 gallon reef setup, 40 gallon refugium, 20 gallon LifeReef
sump and skimmer, 2x400 watt 15k metal halides 1x250 20k HQI, 2x140 watt
VHO super actinics. Over the refugium I have a 150 watt HQI and 2x65
watt PC actinics.
<I assume you are or have looked into lighting your
refugium on a reverse photoperiod?>
2 little giant pumps, one for the
skimmer, one goes to a manifold that is in turned tee'd between 2
returns and the chemical filtration chambers. Additional circulation is
provided by 4 Tunze 6000's and a multi-controller. I run 2.5 cups of
carbon changed weekly and utilize a phosphate reductor with RowaPhos
continuously. I use a Korallin Calcium reactor, the small one, and a
Tunze Osmolator coupled with a calcium dispenser/Nielsen reactor.
There's a total of about 300 lbs of Tonga live rock, 250 lbs of live
aragonite sand over a plenum. It's a mixed reef, with mostly stony
corals. SG is 1.024, Ammonia is 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate is less that 1 ppm?
dunno pink is pink!
<Excellent>
I use an Aquacontroller to
monitor pH, temp and ORP. PH is running a bit flat, 8.0 to 8.2, morning
and evening respectively, ORP is 410 to 397, morning and evening
respectively, I don't use ozone.
<Sounds very healthy>
Alk hangs
at around 8 dKH. I do not detect phosphates, not sure if that is
accurate. Calcium hangs at 410. I do 30 gallon water changes weekly. I
have decent stony coral growth, depending on the species, I've crashed a
few wild colonies, and learned not to purchase them- albeit a bit late,
my aquacultured specimens do very well.
I keep reading that my PH is
too low, and I spoke with a very nice gentleman at my local LFS store
that said I really don't have anything to worry about. Is that true?
<Your pH is almost perfect. I would agree with your LFS. Additionally,
if your corals are all doing fine and growing healthily, then you have
nothing to worry about, do you?>
I've read in Reefkeeping Magazine
that while running a Calcium reactor, you may experience low pH.
<Yes>
To counter this, or so I thought, I've been utilizing a Nilsen
reactor. The gentleman at my LFS said that I should probably not use
both, is this accurate?.
<No, they can both be utilized
concurrently. A good way to counteract the depressed pH from the calcium
reactor.>
If I stop using the Calcium reactor, my Alkalinity drops,
but only slightly, while my calcium goes up. If I stop using the Nielsen
reactor, my alkalinity goes up, my calcium goes down, and my ph is
slightly suppressed, but never goes below 8.0 in the morning before the
lights come on. If I use the Nielson reactor during the day, my pH stays
at around 8.3, but then drops at night back to 8.1 or so.
<as is
normal. Very good parameters>
If I only use the Nielsen reactor at
night, my ph hovers at around 8.1-8.2 during a 24 hour period. Opening a
window, and aerating the sump had no effect. I use the Nielsen reactor
for top off water, which is becoming minimal during the winter- the
tanks been running for 11 months, still new I know. So my question,
thank you for bearing with me.
1) Should I allow evaporation during
the day and use the Nielsen reactor at night only?
<I wouldn't>
2)
Should I take the Neilson reactor off, and just add buffered RO/DI
water?
<no reason to>
3) Is my current pH dangerous to stony
corals? Should I try to raise it?
<No... and as you said yourself,
they are growing and doing fine.>
4) If I try to raise it, should I
turn down/off the calcium reactor? Seems to be the only way.
<If
you're really concerned, you could try turning the CO2
input to the calcium reactor off at night. You may have to increase the
throughput during the day to make up for it. Additionally, you could run
the calcium reactor effluent into a turbulent area (such as your
skimmer) to help off-gas the CO2.>
5) Should I
raise my alkalinity in hopes that it will better buffer the solution,
perhaps discontinue using Kalk altogether as the gentleman at the LFS
stated, or perhaps a more mild solution/effluent.
<I prefer to keep a
slightly higher alkalinity, but again, if it ain't broke...>
6) Are
the two devices, the calcium reactor and Nielsen reactor somehow working
against each other?
<It doesn't look like it. Do you get a lot of alk
/ calcium precipitating out of solution onto flat surfaces (powerheads,
etc)?>
I really don't want to change anything if I don't have to, and
I'm pretty much just guessing as to what will happen if I remove one or
the other, but I'm guessing removing the Nilsen reactor will cause my ph
to remain pretty low, how then, is it possible to maintain the kinds of
numbers that I see so often in marine aquaria, i.e.: Calcium 450ppm,
11dkh ph 8.3-8.4? Should I be shooting for these numbers?
I just
don't see how, my Kalk solution has an Alkalinity of 8 dKH, ph is 12+
and calcium is off the scale. My calcium reactor effluent has an
Alkalinity off the scale and Calcium off the scale, and yet if I use
both, my Alk stays between 8-9.2 dKH, calcium stays at 410-420 and pH is
always 8.0-8.26.
My wife says I should just tape 100 dollar bills to
the outside glass of the tank, it would be cheaper, and more of a
conversation piece at this point.
<No, you should tape the bills to
the outside of *my* tank :P>
Any information you can provide would be
greatly appreciated, I don't want to make any more mistakes than I
already have, and I'm hesitant about changing anything when everything
seems ok, but am I looking at problems in the long run?
<Your system
sounds very fine to me. I would not change anything. Best regards, John>
Thanks and Sorry this is so long, Aaron High Ph, lack
of knowledge 11/9/05
Hi, I have read a bunch
<Then why
are you spelling pH Ph?>
and still after adding baking soda to the
water, the Ph in my 20 gallon marine tank is still high, like 8.79.
<... why would you add sodium bicarbonate thinking it would lower pH?>
I have an accurately calibrated digital unit. I have read that aeration
can drive up Ph. I took notice to this because this all started right
after I added a Berlin airlift skimmer to the tank. So seeing that is
a temporary situation I am to leave it alone?
<... no>
Prior to
reading this, I had done a 50% water change, and with baking soda had
brought the tank down to 8.3, but over night it goes right back up. Is
leaving it alone and not adding any other buffer matter going to be
enough for it to come back down on its own? Tank has a 2" Coris and a
1/2" damsel. No live rock, fine powder like sand.
Thanks, Dan.
<You lack an understanding of what pH, alkalinity are... Please read
here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm and the linked files above
where you lead yourself... till you know what you're doing. Bob Fenner>
Re: High pH 11/1/05
Thanks for your quick response.
I tried a
different pH test kit, but the results were inconclusive. I had started
using a new Nutrafin high range kit recently and compared it to my old
Red Sea test. The old test read 8.2 today with the lights on and the
Nutrafin test read 8.3 or so. Not bad in any case.
I then bought a
Nutrafin KH test kit and found that my carbonate hardness was low -
about 80mg/l.
<Jeff, as I mentioned in the last email, KH isn't what
we are looking for in a marine system. You need to get a marine
alkalinity test kit. We need to know what your dKH/meq/l level is, not
KH level.>
My calcium level checked out at 360 mg/l. Does this
suggest anything?
<Calcium is a little low, but OK.>
I haven't
done any buffering for several months and I have been adding only fresh
water every week to top off my tank at the proper salinity levels.
Many thanks again, Jeff.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: High pH - 11/6/05
I'm a little confused by the KH vs. dKH
test. My kit is definitely a marine kit and the fish store says it is
what they use to measure alkalinity. I read the manual more completely
and it has a conversion table to mEq/L. If I take the 90 mg/L that the
test reads today and use their conversion, the resulting number is 1.8
mEq/L. The fish store guy thought that 90 mg/L is the same as 9 dKH. Is
either of these the proper scale? If not, I'm sorry for wasting your
time and will buy another test kit.
< OK Jeff, lets forget the
labeling confusion. 1.8meq/l = 5.04dkh. 90mg/l = 5.04dkh. To convert
meq/l to dKH, multiply the meq/l reading by 2.8. Hope this helps you.
Either way the dKH is too low. James (Salty Dog)> Re: High
PH 11/8/05
OK, thanks. One more question before I stop
beating this poor horse. I assume that I need to add buffer to raise the
dKH, but won't that raise my pH (which has been too high)?
<Under
normal conditions with ph at 8.0-8.3, the buffer shouldn't raise your
pH. The buffer is like an alkalinity bank. If something in the tank is
causing the water to go acidic (dead fish, detritus etc), then
withdrawals must be made from the bank (such as my wife does) to keep
the ph level up. When the alkalinity bank gets low (such as my bank
account), then there isn't enough reserve to keep the ph in place. A
good dKH level is 8-12 dKH. Much higher than that can cause calcium to
precipitate. Hope this is clear for you. James (Salty Dog)>
A million
thanks!
<And a million you're welcomes> Re: High KH Low
Ph 11/6/05
Salty Dog,
<Yes>
Thanks for the response. I did
the water change. Inverts seem to be happy, but not the corals. I did a
check of the calcium and I am 120 mg/l. I know that is low. I stopped
dosing the ph, should I continue adding calcium (Tropic Marin
Bio-Calcium)? Or wait two weeks on the calcium as well.
<I'd try to
maintain around 400ppm calcium level. James (Salty Dog)>
I appreciate
all your help.
<You're welcome> Low pH and Excessive CO2,
and excessive algal growth 10/25/05
Crew,
Scott Z. from
Reefland.com. here, hope all is going well! I have a question regarding
low pH and excessive CO2 and their effects on
nuisance algae (that is the growth of, not elimination of). I have seen
reference's over the years that low pH and/or excessive CO2
can increase the growth of nuisance microalgae. I, however, have never
seen any details regarding this. For example, if one's pH is terribly
low (5 hours after lights on, pH is at 7.8) can this be the sole cause
of nuisance algae growth absent any "alarming" NO3
or PO4?
<Can be a significant contributing
influence/factor>
And obviously the algae is a consumer of CO2
but would excessive amounts be a sole contributor to an "outbreak"?
<Not hardly ever, but yes... sometimes>
My questions come from an
outbreak that I had not long ago which occurred shortly after the
addition of a CA Reactor. Nitrates and Phosphates are undetectable
(likely from the algae consuming any traceable amounts that were present
prior to the addition). Prior to the addition of the reactor and the
following outbreak, PO4 was undetectable and
nitrates were <10ppm. I have no vegetable filtration (which I know would
help) so I increased frequencies of water changes to 10-15 gallons per
week (in a 75-gallon) and although it has drastically helped the pests
it has not totally eliminated it. Before I move to more drastic measures
to finally rid the rest of it, I want to get past the thought that the
reactor (and subsequent low pH and CO2) is a
contributing factor.
Despite all my best efforts to increase the pH
(nightly lows 7.6 to daytime highs of 8.0) with Kalk and additional
aeration, and with the comments I have read, I can't get over that this
may be part of, if not the major contributor of, the nuisance algae
encountered. These included Bryopsis, Derbesia, Valonia and an
unidentified brown wafer type algae.
Thanks!
Scott Z.
<Likely
these have become entrenched, are poisoning other photosynthetic
life/activity, modifying the environment for their own ends... The best
route would be to go with veg. filtration as you mention, a DSB,
chemical filtrants... and biological controls. Bob Fenner>
Low pH 10/21/05
Hi there,
<<Hello - Ted here>>
Thank you
for all you help so far, this site has been fantastic - A real wealth of
knowledge!! I was hoping someone could help me yet again with a pH
problem. I am getting different answers from everyone including my LFS
and I just don't know what's right.
Our 2 Perc Clowns and anemone
have been in the tank now for two weeks. Our pH has been at 7.4 for one
week now. Our LFS sold us Kent Marine PH Buffer, which we have been
using but it's not working the pH is still at 7.4. We also took off the
lid to the tank so the CO2 could escape better
from the tank, but still didn't make a difference.
I went to a
different LFS and I asked them if they had the KH test because I've read
that can effect your pH and they told me I don't need it, and to just
put crushed shells in the bottom of our tank to naturally raise the pH?
Which would be better? Would Crushed shells do the job?
<<Mmm,
maybe, but likely more to all this. RMF>>
We have running along with
our filter, also an undergravel filter a powerhead sucking up from
underneath and blowing back out into the tank because one LFS told us
that this undergravel filter and powerhead setup would be good for the
tank, but after talking to a lot of other 'fish' people, they have told
us that undergravel filter is bad for the marine tank. One LFS also said
that the undergravel filter could be the cause of the low pH. We are
moving soon so we will be reconstructing the tank at the new place.
Do you think we should use the undergravel filter again or just go with
crushed shells or sand... or what? I know it would be hard for those
giving advise, but I am starting to think there are a lot of people in
the aquarium business that have absolutely NO IDEA!! So I need your
professional help!!
So after all that, my questions are, how to
raise the PH the best, do buffers really work because Kent Marine Brand
doesn't and to go with the undergravel filter again or not?
<<Please
search and read on WWM. Start with this article on pH
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm. Jump to "How to Shift,
Maintain pH" at the end and then read the rest of the article. After
reading that article, please read this article on system setup
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marineSetUp.htm. You don't need to use an
UG filter but it's also possible to maintain a healthy system using
one.>>
Thank you in advance for the helpful info that I know you will
provide.
Cheers
T&S
<<You're welcome and good luck - Ted>>
Unstable pH 10/13/05
Hey Crew,
I have searched your website
for answers but have not had luck with finding a solution for my
problem. My problem is with falling pH levels in my tank. The pH starts
at 8.3 but within a day drops to 8.0 and after two or three days goes to
7.8 or so.
<Mmm, a lack of alkalinity and/or some overwhelming
reduction source/s>
I perform 20-30% water changes (Oceanic salt)
<Oh! This salt mix brand is notoriously inconsistent, but generally
lacks much in the way of alkaline reserve...>
weekly with gravel
vacuuming and have been using Seachem pH 8.3 Marine Buffer with tap
water during each change. I still am seeing the same pH drop within a
day of a water change. For now, I am using the Seachem buffer to keep
the pH up to 8.3, but really need your advice on finding the root cause.
<Among other things, the salt mix>
I thought this may be due to
overcrowding, but two LFSs' have told me that I have plenty of room to
add more. Obviously I won't until I can figure this out.
Here's my
stats:
90 gallon FO (plan to seed my 60lbs Tufa rock to live rock)
<The Tufa has little buffering capacity as well... you want carbonaceous
rock and substrate... of more easily soluble make-up>
with sump/bio
balls
<Also a source of reductive chemical behavior>
Ammonia,
Nitrites, Nitrates at 0
Excalibur Protein Skimmer (about one cup a
week of skimmate)
A 4" Juv. Emperor Angel (just starting to change)
A 4" Powder Blue Tang
<Both these fishes need larger quarters>
A
4" Yellow Tang (the tangs actually get along for the most part)
A 2"
Flame Angel
Two False Percs (about 1.5" and .5")
A green sea star,
couple of snails, and a purple urchin.
I thought I may be overfeeding
as well, but I would like your opinion. I prepare the following in each
meal (I do eight days at a time, hence the fractions you see)
1/8th
cube frozen Formula One
1/8th cube frozen Formula Two
1/8th cube
frozen Pygmy Formula (Ocean Nutrition)
1/8th cube frozen Angel
Formula (Ocean Nutrition)
~15 pellets of Formula One (cut up to
smaller pieces)
~15 pellets of Formula Two (cut up to smaller pieces)
Add Garlic Guard and Kent Marine Zoe supplements
Each night I tie
about 4"x4" piece of Green Marine Algae to snack on.
Finally thought:
I recently added some decorations I picked up at PetSmart. They are Blue
Ribbon Coral Reef ornaments. Four pieces are made of a harder material
and another piece of a softer rubber material (Staghorn coral). Could
any of these be a problem to the pH?
<Mmm, nope. They're chemically
inert>
Thanks for any help you can provide,
Ian
<Mmm, please
read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marphalk.htm and the linked files above. You
need a basic understanding of acid/base, aka reduction/oxidation
(gaining, losing electrons) in your chemistry knowledge... and more
alkaline buffering capacity in your system... and a larger system.
Cheers, Bob Fenner>
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