Nasol Env Dis F

FAQs about Naso lituratus Environmental Disease

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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

Naso tang floating at surface after transport and freshwater dip 6/22/17
Hi Bob, I hope you are doing well.
<Ah, thank you Jake>
I am very sorry to bother you with a question but am a bit desperate to save a fish I received today. I picked up a very large male blonde Naso tang (about 11" not including streamers) from a wholesaler today and all seemed well got it back and did a freshwater dip before placing in a customers quarantine system. Normal procedure for freshwater dip that I always do (added airstone, adjusted ph and temp) but as soon as I put him in he started floating upside down at the surface.
<A "usual" behavior for large, moved Tangs... likely just anoxic; low oxygen at work here>
Added him to the tank and is upright but still floating. He has gotten a bit better but is still rising. The reason I'm asking is because this is the second large Naso tang that this has happened to me before and the first one died. Is this osmotic shock and if so what is your suggestive solution?
<These Acanthurids need to be packed in double, tripled bags of good make, in enough water to move about, and in the dark (in a box); and to be processed expediently. A job as a youngster was in the P.I., pushing newly arrived fishes about w/ a wooden dowel. Naso spp. especially were easily lost on receiving>
Again I apologize for messaging, I know you are a busy person and I personally don't prefer random messages on Facebook either but am a bit desperate. I tried W.W.M. As well as Google of course But I did not see anything pertaining to this situation.
Thank you for your time.
<This fish will resolve in time if it began righting itself. Going forward, LARGE acclimation container, LOTS of aeration applied. Bob Fenner>
Re: Naso tang floating at surface after transport and freshwater dip 6/22/17
Excellent, thank you very much for the very quick response and information!
<Glad to share... wishing we were out diving, even spearfishing for large Nasos. Cheers, BobF>
-Jake
Re: Naso tang floating at surface after transport and freshwater dip 6/22/17
This guy seems just about worthy of that status, thanks again
- Jake
<Welcome>

Quarantine question; Naso hlth f' 8/13/15
Hello and greetings from Illinois,
<Right back atcha from S. Cal.>
I have now waited 7 weeks and my service brought me a Hepatus Tang, Blonde Naso Tang, Longnosed Butterfly and Royal Gramma which we put into the quarantine tank. Our plan is to give them one day in the QT to de stress, and tomorrow we will freshwater dip them and put them in the main tank. All of the fish look good except the Blonde Naso Tang which has white blotches on it. My service tells me this is from stress and will go away.
<Likely so>
Attached is a picture,
<Nada attached>
do you agree? Thank you very much in advance.
Ciao,
Steve
<S'long. Bob Fenner>
Re: Quarantine question 8/13/15
Sorry. Here is the picture. Thank you again.
<Mmm; well; too small for Naso lituratus really. READ on WWM re. B>
Ciao,
Steve

Re: Quarantine question 8/13/15
I read WWM and see what you mean about the size.
<Ah, good... again; the spots are stress-related.... I'd expedite (as you stated was your intention) this Naso.>
Thank you very much.
<Welcome>
Ciao,
Steve
<Arrivederci bello; BobF>

Re: Quarantine question 8/14/15
Should we still do the freshwater dip?
<Yes I would.... do re-read my SOP re these prophylactic procedures. B>
Grazie!
Best regards,
Steve

Burned Naso; rdg. 2/26/14
Hello. My name is Marco and yesterday I received a Blonde Naso Tang and a small goby from liveaquaria.com. There was an issue with shipping that delayed the delivery for 5 hours.
<Oh... too long in the bag... I do hope you read, used the commercial acclimation SOP posted on WWM... I see below... nope... Ammonia burned... need/ed to drip matched pH water on till the ammonia was flushed out of the specimen>
After getting my fish, I acclimated them using the drip method for about 2 hours until S.G. and ph in the bucket was almost a perfect match with the water in the quarantine tank. Both fishes were looking very good, the Naso was swimming all over the place and grazing on the live rock. This morning the Naso does not look as good as he did last night. His coloration is rather dark with a couple of grey spots near the gill area on his right side, the caudal fin is not "opened" (for lack of a better word) as it was last night. He ate some Nori algae soaked in Selcon but he looks a little weak.
<Shouldn't have offered food this soon>
I should probably mention that about 1 month ago we had a Naso Tang that we tried to "rescue" from the LFS since he was losing weight and by the time we bought him he was weak and he died a few days later from what I thought was HLL disease and also we have kept a Bicolor Blenny in there for 2 months now and he is doing great.
Water parameters are:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrites: 0 ppm
Nitrates: 0 ppm
<? How rendered thus?>
Ca: 420 ppm
Mg: 1350 ppm
Alk: 11 dKH
Salinity: 1.025 ppt <Not the right units>
My question is. Is there something I am missing?
<As stated above>
Something I don't know that is particularly important to pay attention to when keeping Naso Tangs? Or is this "normal" coloration and behavior for a new fish of this species?
Thanks for your time and advice. I hope you have a great rest of the week.
If you need pictures or any other info please let me know.
<Let's take my time to refer you: Read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/acclimppt1.htm
Bob Fenner>

Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Hi! Mark from the Philippines here.
<BobF in sunny S. Cal.>
I've always been a fan of your site as it's been a really good reference for me. However, due to the urgency of the situation, I think I need more personalized help.
I have a 3 year old blonde Naso tang in my 180g reef that suddenly stopped eating today. What's weird is that he suddenly appears really really thin today. He's breathing rapidly and is staying put in a low flow area.
Yesterday he was his usual self, swimming everywhere, hogging all the food.
He looks really bad and I'm not sure if he'll make it to tomorrow.
<MOVE this fish Mark... Now!>
He looks perfectly normal, no wounds, etc. Just really really suddenly thin.
He's my favorite fish, very fond of people and follows everyone around the aquarium. I even hand feed him from time to time.
Recently, I've converted to an all softies reef and been stocking up on corals. The other day, I added a few Brittlestars, and he started nipping at one's legs. That's the only thing I've noticed him do differently.
<Something this fish either has eaten or the new organisms are releasing into the water is poisoning it... Again, it needs to go elsewhere, stat!>
I'm lightly stocked, have a blue tang, 2 clownfish, a royal gramma, and the Naso. All of them are around 3 years old so all of them are quite large.
All the other fish and corals are okay. Water parameters are okay.
Any ideas what it could be? And any medication, dips I can do?
Thanks!
<Move it, move it. Bob Fenner>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Thanks for the quick response Bob

It's already 12:30am in this part of the world. The lights just went out a couple of hours ago. Should I turn the lights back on and catch him now? He sleeps in a cave and I'm definite I won't be able to catch him with the lights off.

Also, all the shops are closed, and I can't get any medication.
<No medication necessary>
That being said, what do I need to do once he's in the QT? Any specific medication?
Thanks again!
<None... just place this fish in a clean, large, established system. BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Hi Bob!
Sorry, just want to explain myself as it may sound odd that I know the urgency of the situation, but then suddenly hesitating regarding the transfer.
My main concern here is that waking him up after a few hours of sleep then chasing him around the tank might stress him out and cause more harm than good?
<Watch your hands, but remove this fish... w/o turning the lights on if you can. B>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Hi Bob
Just finished moving the fish. When I turned on the lights he was resting on the sand almost motionless.... not a good sign.
<Actually Mark... this is what they do... at night, in the wild. Larger Nasos are collected during the night in just such a fashion. Not to worry>
He didn't put up a fight as I easily netted him on the 2nd try.
<Good>
He's now in a 20g tank, swimming around. Just turned the lights off. Hope he gets a good rest.
<... I fear I'm not being clear. This fish NEEDS to be put in another six foot, plus length system. NOT in a small body of water>
Still hoping for the best...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/02/09
Actually Bob, right now I don't have many options. The 20g spare tank is the only place I can transfer him now.
I'll ask around fellow reefers who have large tanks tomorrow who can hold on to him and hopefully nurse him back to health.
I can't thank you enough for your help and speedy replies...
<Welcome. Sleep tight. B>
re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang
Got it! Thanks! I'll keep you posted!
<Real good. B>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang -- 11/03/09
Our Blue Tang has stopped eating today as well. I'm trying my best to remove it from the tank. I feel really disheartened...

From what I've read, I think it could be flukes. Symptoms include abrupt cessation of feeding, and the eyes do look a bit cloudy.
If they are indeed flukes, could they have been transferred to the tank by the new corals?
<Mmm, unlikely these are flukes... affecting so many species of fishes...
They tend to be... Well, read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisflukef.htm
BobF>
Re: Urgent Help re: Naso Tang 11/3/09
Hi Bob,

When I woke up today, the fish was gone...
<Ahhh>
Scary how fast it deteriorated...
Thanks again,
Mark
<BobF>

High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Hello,
<Hello Dee.>
I have recently began lowering my very high nitrate levels, I was dangerously overfeeding my tank. My Nasos skin has gotten blotchy, kind of looks like it's orange-peeled in texture along with dark grey small patches. Her eyes & fins are all clear. Eats great, swims and acts the same. If this is stress markings from the high nitrates, what's a ballpark figure on how long before it clears up?
<Depends on how long before your "high" nitrate levels drop to a safe range. It has been 5 days since these markings first appeared. I have done large water changes in my 300 gallon tank. Employed some activated carbon, Seachem's De-nitrate in filter bags in the sump, next to the 40 gallon 'fuge. I will add some Chaetomorpha to refugium tomorrow to help lower the nitrates even more.
<A start.>
I feed less, water is much clearer now. I have removed the filter sock,
<I'm not a fan of filter socks as they trap debris in the micron size and the water is constantly flowing through this and creating high nutrient levels.>
and employed Poly-Filter in the slot of the second chamber. I am too afraid to post the nitrate numbers, your jaw would
hit the floor.
<Would have been better if you did post the numbers, gives us a realistic idea of how high the levels really are.>
I am very upset, I should have tested weekly, I did not. My 8" Naso is my special fish. No other inhabitants' skin is affected, just hers. Can you please help my nerves with this one? With consistent 15% water changes every other day for a week, then back to my regular regiment of 10% a week, can I hope to see her skin condition improve in time?
<Weekly water changes will help, but the use of a quality protein skimmer will certainly speed up the process and further prevent nitrates from rising provided an efficient skimmer, and one sized for your tank is used. You mention nothing of using one so I'm assuming you're not using one.>
I have read through the FAQ's, and have seen the above remedies help in lowering nitrates.
<In your case, you would be better off using Chemi-Pure, a high grade activated carbon combined with scavenging resins. In your size tank, we would be looking at using six units of the product and to be effective, the water needs to pass through the product, not around it. Seriously, do consider purchasing a protein skimmer, will create much better water quality for
your animals. Have you read here and related articles?
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm>
Sadly, Dee.
<And I James, not being in Cozumel with Bob and Scott. Cheers. James (Salty Dog)>
Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now. I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true. With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Nasos approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.
Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
James, is the Chemi Pure product you recommend by Boyd's?
<Yes.>
That is the only brand I've seen with this name on it. There are two versions, a regular one, and one that's labeled "elite", which removes phosphates and silicates as well as what the regular one removes. Which do you recommend?
<In your situation, the standard Chemi-Pure will do more for you right now than the Elite, more carbon and resins will be present to better absorb excess nutrients. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.
High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/27/09
Salty Dog,
<Dee>
what a lifesaver you are. I hate to hog up so much of your precious time, but please walk me through this like I'm 5 years old, I will not be offended. I will purchase a mechanical filter tomorrow. Honestly, what is it? What kind, brand, size do you recommend? Where do I put it?
<Dee, you are scaring me now, you do not know what a mechanical filter is? A mechanical filter is any filter that can trap debris, uneaten food etc. Your filter sock can be identified as a mechanical filter but would not work in this application.>
I will put it ahead of the Chemi-Pure as you suggested, but please tell me where to put the mechanical filter as well as the media bags. Do I use the carbon along with the Chemi-Pure?
<Not necessary to use carbon with Chemi-Pure, it contains carbon.>
I have a 40 gallon refugium, separated into 3 sections. First section, water from the main tank pours down into it. The skimmer is there. That is where I've placed the bags of carbon and SeaChem's De-nitrate.
<For now, remove the bags of carbon and place the Chemi-Pure bags in their place. I'd also like you to send a couple pics of your sump. We may be able to devise a way of using the Chemi-Pure more effectively without you having to purchase a filter.>
The second section is where the sand, live rocks, algae plants and sponge are growing.
<Good, a refugium is incorporated here.>
Third section, 2 return pumps, nothing else. I paid the local guy in my area thousands of dollars for this set up. He brought everything out, I never questioned the size, brands, anything, just trusted he'd keep his word and give me top of the line everything, in sizes appropriate for my system. Two years later, I am learning that one thing after another is too small and inadequate for my tank.
<Is the exact reason you need to educate yourself more, don't assume or trust everyone's suggestion(s). I would think that after two years you would be a little further down the road.>
So this skimmer <ASM G-1> is what was installed on it,
<Don't understand why your LFS would install an undersize skimmer on your tank. I'd be a little skeptical with him.>
I have no preference for the brand, I will replace with whatever you recommend, please.. Yes, the skimmer had light colored liquid in it, not dark as usual. I pushed it back down. Please explain what that does, moving that tube up and down.
<Basically, the higher the water level in the skimmer, the lighter the skimmate. You "pushed it back down", why not follow my suggestion in the previous email? Don't go from one extreme to the other. Read again and read the instructions that came with the skimmer.>
You said with my 3 water changes I am now importing more nutrients than I am exporting.
<No, I did not say that, go back and read again. I said you are at a point where the skimmer cannot export the nutrients at the same rate they are being imported, simply said, the skimmer is too small for your tank.>
I should now then go back to my weekly water changes, rather than every other day?
<Yes, do 10% weekly, right now you are wasting your money with every other day changes. You need export help by way of a skimmer sized for your tank. Changing water helps by dilution but can get expensive in the long run, and is time consuming as you well know.>

I don't understand. I use 2 different test kits, both strips, and both are the 5 in 1 types, measuring pH, hardness alkalinity, nitrite, nitrate, and ammonia. One is by Jungle. It measures nitrate is quantities of 0, 20, 40, 80, 160, 200 ppm. I Googled it, there is no specific mention of it measuring total nitrogen or just NO3. So, I'm not sure. I also use a test strip kit by Mardel, same 5 in 1 style. This one specifically says it is measuring NO3 ppm at levels of 0, 20, 40, 80 and 200.
<Well, that's some relief, a kit measuring N-NO3 would have to be multiplied by 4.4 to get the NO3 (nitrate ion) level. I'd do away with these 5 in 1 strips and get a kit dedicated to measuring NO3 only. Aquarium Systems, Salifert and a few other companies have inexpensive nitrate kits that will be easier to read than the strips. Better yet, get kits that are dedicated to measuring an individual water parameter. My personal preference are the Salifert Kits.>
I am terrified here.
<You are scaring me also.>
Thank you for the reminder that you all are here to help us, and that this did not happen overnight, nor will it straighten out overnight. Indeed, I was laying out the buffet 3-4 times a day. That is under control now. Please advise.
<Right now, follow the above suggestions and do send photos of the sump and other items I've asked you for above. It would be beneficial to me for you to send a photo of the tank, I'd like to see what I'm dealing with. Also, measure the length and width of the skimmer section in the sump. I cannot recommend a skimmer without knowing your available space. Skimmers vary in footprint dimensions and we want to make sure we get one that will fit in the area provided. I will then link you to a LFS/etailer than can provide you with your needs and save you some money to boot. Where are you located. I also feel that you need to learn/read more about this hobby. Here is a link to our marine index which will lead you to most any topic dealing with marine aquariums. Do spend some time reading/learning here.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/setup/marsetupindex1.htm
When replying, do not break up the entire thread as you have here, always "reply to". Doing so prevents me from going back to all the previous emails if I need to.?
James (Salty Dog)>
Thankfully, Dee.
High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/26/09
Fantastic feedback, thank you James. I have learned so much from your responses to others.
<You're welcome.>
Okay, here's the nitrate numbers. It was at 200 last Sunday, yes, you read that right.
<Yikes, what kind of test kit are you using that will read that high? Is your kit measuring total nitrogen or NO3?>
After one water change, and added filter media, it went down to 80.
<A big improvement.>
The next day, another water change, it went down to 50, where it has remained for the past 3 days, even with another water change.
<You are at a point now where you are importing more nutrients than the skimmer/system can export.>
So sorry, I neglected to mention that I am running a ASM G1 skimmer, and my LFS said I need more like a G3 instead for my sized system. He suggested I run the skimmer "WET" .....he came over and raised the tube with the black sponge around it higher, I now have less foam. Do you agree that running it wet will help?
<I like to set up skimmers so the skimmate is on the dark side. I'm thinking the skimmate your skimmer is producing now is
tinted more like tea. Your dealer is correct, the G1 will not do it, and either will the G3 which is rated for 250 gallons max.
If you like this brand of skimmer, go with the G4 which is rated for up to 350 gallons.>
If so, how long until I push the tube back down below the neck of the skimmer?
<Let it run awhile, see what color and amount of skimmate you get out of the tank in a day or two. If it is light in color, push the tube down about 1/2", then evaluate again. When you get to a point where the skimmate isn't any darker, then that is where I'd leave it.>
I have seen that Chemi-Pure and am on my way out to purchase it right now. I have your recommended dosage for my sized system, and will get that plus more. How often should I change it out?
<Well, they say every six months, but I've never found that to be true. With your present nutrient level, I'm thinking about one month and with the next change, likely two months. It is important to have some type of mechanical filter ahead of the Chemi Pure to increase it's useful life.>
Salty Dog, thank you just isn't enough. This issue has caused daily nosebleeds, I need help, and was just too afraid to put the numbers here.
<We are here to help you Dee, not criticize you. We all have been down that road before and have learned from our mistakes and/or lack of knowledge.>
I have also read that adding a Mangrove plant in the 'fuge will help, as well. I am searching for one.
<Put your money toward a skimmer that will handle your tank, will do much more good than the mangrove will at this stage.>
The Naso began with black blotches all over, face, gills, body, etc....I thought it was Black Spot, but tested my water, saw the nitrate numbers and quickly realized it was probably stress markings. All of the blotching has gone away now with the exception of her back and sides. Face, gills are all smooth and grey again, like normal. Yes, that filter sock was packed with
debris/uneaten food. Thank you so much.
<Yes, a double edge sword here.>
I await your response re: the duration of running the skimmer wet, the Nasos approx. recovery time,
<I couldn't begin to estimate recovery time, too many variables. Most importantly, it is better to feed more often with smaller portions per feeding than to put out the grand buffet a couple of times a day.>
and the frequency of changing out the Chemi-Pure. You are my lifeline right now. Please help. I have seen some of the articles in the link you provided, but not all. I will read through once I return with the Chemi-Pure.
<Great. What you need most right now is patience, this didn't happen overnight and it isn't going to go away overnight.
Thank you.
<You're welcome, and you will get through this. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/28/09
Greetings Salty Dog.
<Hello Dee>
I have re-read your instructions regarding that skimmer tube, and saw my mistake in reading them. My sincerest apologies.
<No problem.>
I returned it to its upright position, pushed it back down 1/2" as you told me, and will watch for color of skimmate for the next 2 days. Attached are 4 images of my set up. My Nasos blotchy skin, full tank view, close up of skimmer, and close up of sump. I live in Victorville, California. I am on my way out to get the Salifert test kits, I have seen them. I agree with you 200%. I should have asked more, learned more upfront. I had been talking with this local LFS for 2 yrs. prior to set up. He assured me he would install the best needed for my system, and teach me along the way. He installed all of this, stiffed me on everything except the water. We discussed my lack of knowledge, I begged him not to just install it and leave, he said he wouldn't. But once he got paid, he began failing to show up for meetings/maintenance/water changes/questions, voicemail stays on, haven't heard from him since. Found a different shop, that person has been maintaining this tank for a year. I called my self learning while he was doing it, obviously not nearly enough. My fault. I took over water changes just 5 months ago. Reading Bob's book, the FAQ's here, visiting lots of shops within 100 mile radius, asking, absorbing as fast and much as possible. I am tap dancing as fast as I can, I promise. With all of my outings, I have since learned he does this to everyone. Literally at least a half a dozen people in different areas has told me the same. He has one pay upfront, he brings out the smallest equipment, pockets the rest.
Now I know. You are totally right. Thank you for your help. I purchased some Poly Filter after I responded to you. I indeed remembered what a mechanical filter was, please forgive my panicked responses. I am making more work for you. I understand your explanation, my skimmer is too small for this tank. Thanks so much. I got it.
I have 6 Yellow Tail Damsels, 1 Raccoon Butterfly, 1 Pearlscale Butterfly, 1 Naso Tang, 1 Majestic Angel, 1 Coral Beauty, 1 Bi-Color Dwarf Angel, 1 Banggai Cardinal, crabs, snails, 3 urchins.
That's it. My sump dimensions where the skimmer is:
14" deep (from back wall to front), 12" wide (side to side), 35" tall, headroom.
My Butterflies and Naso are the ones skipping around the tank, twitching of sorts. Would a larger skimmer add more dissolved oxygen to the tank, helping this behavior?
<As far as the oxygen goes, yes, you would be processing more gallons per hour. As for the twitching, not a good sign, is possible the mentioned fish may have a parasitical disease and would be a good idea for your local man to come have a look and soon. Do any of the "twitching" fish have very small white spots on them? Would be comparable to grains of salt. Do read/learn here about this.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
Another question I have is what type of diet are these fish on, what are you feeding them? A healthy diet can go a long way in disease prevention. As for the nitrate level, your tank photo isn't indicative of a tank with the high nitrate levels that you report from the 5 in 1 strip results. I'll be very interested in your Salifert nitrate reading. On to the skimmer. Since you are already familiar with the ASM's operation, I suggest you get the ASM G4, will not be another learning curve thrown at you. May want to order this item from Marine Depot, located in Garden Grove, California, not very far from you and Bob Fenner for that matter. Look here.
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~category~ASM_G_4_Protein_Skimmer_w__S
edra_5000_Pump_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Protein_Skimmers_In_Sump_Skimmers
_Venturi_Over_250_Gallons~vendor~All_Seas_Marine_(ASM)~SearchStr~~action~vie
w~idProduct~AG1191~idCategory~FIPSISVSOT.html
As to your present skimmer, and looking at the photo, you have a good accumulation of skimmate slime on the top neck of the main body. Any slime like this needs to be removed on a minimum weekly basis along with cleaning the collection cup/riser tube of same. Allowing this to build up greatly reduces the skimmer's efficiency.>
Peace be to you, again my apologies for all.
<Not a problem. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/28/09
G'Day to you, thank you for your input/help.
<You're welcome.>
I purchased the ASM G3 yesterday, and installed it. Thanks for doing some homework on where to purchase. The better sized G4 for my system, will not fit in my sump.
<With a moderate fish load, the G3 should be fine.>
No, none of the twitching fish have any white spots on them. No Ich signs. I lost a damsel and my Pearlscale Butterfly last night. Before succumbing, he had a fixed gaze in his eyes. His color had turned to brown in some areas, mainly his face.
<The Pearlscale Butterflyfish are hardy as far as Butterflyfish go, but still not an easy fish to keep. My Naso and Majestic have the same look in their eyes, but Majestic is swimming/eating/looking fine, Naso is still blotchy and twitching. Could this be Chloramine poisoning from the tap?
<Depends on the level of the Chloramine. Butterflyfish demand pristine water quality and if your nitrates were indeed 200ppm+, then this will have a negative effect on the fish.>
I have adjusted the 4 power heads in each top corner downward and outward a bit for more oxygen in the water, they were 90% upwards, producing more surface aeration. Now it is about 20% surface aeration.
<Doing what you did just decreased the oxygen saturation, the surface needs to be agitated to allow gas/air exchange.>
I am testing with my Salifert N03 kit today, will shoot you the results later.
<Good.>
The only shop around here who carries it won't get it in until this afternoon, so I'll be driving 50 miles to get this test kit. I wanted to write you back ASAP to try and prevent more fish losses. Chlorine? If I add in some NovAqua to eliminate chlorine/ammonia, won't that make the skimmer go overboard?
<Yes, will likely have to be shut off.>
What can I safely add to eliminate the chloramines then?
<Aerating your top off water for 24 hours will eliminate the Chloramine. Many folks just keep a Rubbermaid tub with
aerated fresh water for top offs. Another route to go is by using an RO water purification system.>
Ammonia readings are zero, nitrite is at zero also. What, the do you think is poisoning them?
<Don't know, but water quality should be your first goal now. Could be that the Butterflyfish was caught by cyanide and this eventually kills the fish. Hard to believe you lost a damsel, they are almost bullet proof. Have you had him long?>
The 5 in 1 test strip still reads the nitrate at 50, that is a stressor. So it is either the Chloramine or the nitrate killing them?
<How did you arrive at having Chloramine present in your water, did you test?>
So many of these products are discussed here in other sections, I have seen/read dozens. Which of them do you prefer to
eliminate the chloramines?
<Aeration, doesn't make sense to add a product and then have no protein skimming.>
I feed them New Life Spectrum pellets, soft Spirulina pellets, Nori sheets soaked in Selcon & Boyd's Vita Chem alternately, frozen P.E. Mysis, Marine Cuisine, krill, squid, H2O Life Formula 1, all also soaked in the above mentioned vitamins. I mix up the choices 2x a day.
<Sounds good. Were all fish eating the New Life Pellets? It is a very nutritious food, use it myself.>
Now you really have my attention with your observance of my tank photo. I am actually encouraged by your feedback. What does a high nitrate laden tank look like compared to mine? How can you tell just by looking at my tank photo?
<What I expected to see was some Cyanobacteria growth and nuisance algae. Your tank looks reasonably clean of such.>
I see the goop in the neck of my old G1 skimmer now that you point that out, I'll be sure and keep the new one clean, along with the riser tube.
<Yes, a cleaning of at least once weekly.>
Excellent support here, I'll send results soon
Thanks so much.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>

Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health 3/30/09
Hello James, (Salty Dog),
<Hello Dee, sorry for the delay, been busy this weekend.>
I have performed the Salifert test for N03, it is reading the bright magenta color at 100.
<Ouch.>
Thank you for this specific test recommendation, I will continue using all of their test kits for each element. I moved all 4 of the power heads back up towards the surface, as you suggested. I hooked the small skimmer back up to help
move out the build up until this new one begins skimming green stuff.
<You're thinking.>
I cleaned out the old one really good before using. I am now running both skimmers in sump. I now have 3 spots of Cyano on the rocks, and 4 small patches of bright green algae on the glass now.
<During the next water change, siphon the Cyano off, do not brush off, will just be spreading it.>
More skimming, continued water changes, better water circulation, those algaes should clear up soon?
<Should.>
I will be purchasing a 60 gallon RO unit Tuesday for my water changes. I've actually had my Pearlscale Butterfly and damsels for 2 years now, always perfect health, they were my first fish. So no possibility of cyanide for him in this case.
<Nope.>
My damsel did not die after all. He is blotchy like the rest of them, fins fraying, he was just lying on the sand in shock, he is
up and around now. I'm doing a 10% water change in moments. No, I did not test for chloramines, I was assuming, since my nitrites and ammonia are at zero, besides the nitrate, I figured that would be the only other toxic present.
<Likely.>
But now I see that it is not the high concentration of nitrate that is weakening them, it is the stress of living in the toxic levels of nitrate.
<Yes, is not good.>
You convinced me, no chemicals. Good, days-long aeration is best, thanks so much. The Majestic, Coral Beauty, Bi-Color, Pearlscale and Raccoon all love NLS pellets, but my Naso may pick them up every now and then. She is a Nori and P.E. Mysis fan instead.
<OK.>
Thank you for your patience. What say you to 2 skimmers running to skim as much as possible until the bigger one takes off and another water change?
<Yes, run both skimmers and I'd do 10% changes every week until the nitrate level gets down around 20ppm>
The Raccoon is darting all over, but the Majestic, Naso, 2 pygmies are swimming fine, just blotchy skin.
<Question for you...When doing water changes do you use a gravel cleaner type siphon? If not, do get one. It will allow you to churn the substrate and suck out plenty of nastys. If this has never been done, you likely have a small hydrogen sulphide factory in the substrate, another negative for your fish. You won't believe the color of the water in your dump bucket when you're doing this. Obviously you won't be able to vacuum the entire substrate in one water change so it is best to start at one end then identify where you stopped. On the next water change, continue and move on. It is also a good idea to do this with every future water change with your type of system.>
Waiting for your feedback, and thankful for your time.
<Welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health/Now Treating Cloudy Eyes 3/30/09
Hello James, thanks dearly for your attention.
<Welcome.><<And Dee, James has asked me to chime in as well. BobF>>
Yes, I do use a siphon at the end of my hose for water changes, and always do a 2 ft. long area of top sand siphoning. Salty Dog, I have been reading the FAQ's on cloudy eye all morning. My Naso now has it, the Raccoon Butterfly still does, as well. My 10 gal QT will not hold my Naso, nor can I catch the Raccoon for QT without stressing him and the others out even more.
<<It may well be best to try and discern the net/root cause of the problem in the main tank... and leave your fishes there>>
And the Bi-Color pygmy looks to be in the beginning stages of it. Just this time, can I medicate the tank with Maracyn 2? Removing all carbon/Chemi-Pure?
<<RMF would not use an antibiotic here. The real problem is little doubt environmental... I would add some pads of PolyFilter to your carbon use>>
The original skimmer is doing a great job of skimming lots of dark green like it used to. The new one is still filled with just clear water. I have read Bob's instructions on how to make a big QT using a Rubbermaid, aeration and a heater, but even if I were to catch the Raccoon, Bi-Color and Naso to treat for cloudy eye, my Banggai, Majestic Angel and Coral Beauty may come down with the same, so under these circumstances, do you recommend I treat the entire tank for cloudy eye?
<I'll hook up with Bob since disease treatment is not my forte. I will see what he recommends for treating a large tank.>
All of this Chemi-Pure, water changes (used store bought drinking water for the last one, no time to let tap sit), is not helping these nitrates get past this reading. I won't bother you with this much longer, I just need your input on these 2 things, the cloudy eye treatment, and reducing nitrates faster.
<I went through the nitrate problem with you already. Outside of what you are doing, there isn't a way to speed it up outside of costly massive (50%) water changes which you likely do not have the facilities to do anyway. Remember, it didn't happen overnight and it's not going to go away overnight.>
You have been a real coach, thank you.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.
<<Dee, you must need address the water quality... including the massive water change possibility James alludes to. RMF>>

Re: High nitrate's effects on Nasos skin? Naso Tang/Health/And Now Cloudy Eye Treatment 3/30/09
Greetings James (Salty Dog).
<Hello Dee.>
I have an idea I want to run by you. What do you think about me doing a 150 gallon water change? These 30 gallon ones don't seem to be working.

Changing out half seems drastic and refreshing for them. This is all I can think of now to do to get these nitrates and stress down quickly. Will that be too diluted? Take out too much at once?
<You must be sure the pH, temperature, and salinity are the same as the display tank. I don't understand what you mean by "diluted".>
Even if it stressful, I think they'd get over that easier than living in these high nitrates.
<Will not be stressful if done correctly as above.>
One of the damsels is getting a large red infection on his forehead. The environment is really bad. I plugged up a larger pump for one of the return hoses 2 weeks ago. When I did, tons of uneaten food/poo shot right back into the tank from 3-4 weeks of an non operating return pump.
<Seems like you are always encountering additional problems. In a tank your size, you should be looking at a total flow rate of at least 3000gph, this will keep waste stirred up and find it's way to the mechanical filter. What is your total flow rate including return pump and powerheads?>
Anthony at WetWeb told someone that nothing good happens fast in an aquarium. I agree in this case.
<In full agreement with Antoine.>
I just can't fix this fast enough. It took 3 hours for all of it to clear up. The damage was done by then. That, plus my constant overfeeding is when all of this nitrate/toxin issue began. So, half a water change, 150 gallons, what do you think to help lower these nitrates now?
<If you have the facilities to do this, yes, most definitely. Where did all the uneaten food/poo end up that was stirred up, removed from the tank I hope.>
My Salifert test for N03 today is still reading at 100. Am at a loss on the next action here. Thank you dearly for your time and attention.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Re: Naso Tang/Health/And Now Cloudy Eye Treatment 3/31/09
Hello again, this will indeed be my last message.
<OK>
I have learned much from you. Thank you for your compassion and patience.
<You're welcome.>
Yes, I am encountering new problems, these issues have a domino effect. Once that one over there hit, it affected that one next to it, and so on. Yes, you are correct again, you absolutely did suggest a half water change, my apologies again. I will buy another 30 gallon can, and do it all at once, in one session. What I meant by diluted was the level of nitrates in the water, not the salinity or anything like that.
<Yes, you will be lowering nitrates by way of dilution, but also keep in mind you have to address the source of excess nutrients/waste. This may help you here. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nutrientcontrol.htm >
But thanks for clarifying.. All of that uneaten food/poo went down the overflow, stayed right in the system. I thought the skimmer would get most of it, didn't know any better, nor think anything about it until now.
<Yes, waste needs to be out of the system, not out of sight.>
Thank you much for the nematodes response. Bob said all there was to say on it, certainly. I currently have 2300 gph of flow rate in the tank, will upgrade to more powerful pumps first thing in the morning to reach at least 3000 gph, excellent suggestion, you're a real gem.
Thanks for helping me build my wings on the way down.
<You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)>
Dee.

Naso Tang (Second attempt) HELP!! Hlth, temp./sys. 3/8/09 Hi Guys, <Joey> In a bit of a panic and I'm hoping and praying you guys can help. <Will try> 150 US GAL Reef tank(with 50 GAL sump) , inhabitants are as follows: 1 x yellow tang approx 4 inches doing very well, nice and thick eating well good coloring and shape. 1 x powder brown tang doing amazingly. Beautiful specimen, eats well with no abrasions and is just my pride and joy. 1 x one spot fox face rabbit fish. Again doing very well and about 4 to possibly 5 inches in length although not nearly as "massive" as the tangs 4 x blue green Chromis. All doing well and between 1 and 1.5 inches 2 x ocellaris clowns hosted in the same Sebae again doing very well (1 = 2.5 inches , 1 = 3 .5 inches both very hearty) 1 x blue devil damsel doing well 2 inches 1x lemon (or yellow damsel) doing well but very very small I would say about 1 inch long Various corals of all types, leathers, SPS's , LPS, Softs, etc. About 200 LBS of Live Rock (lots of rock very large structure in the middle of the tank 5 inches or aragonite mixed with crushed coral bed 50 gallon sump with 1/3 as fuge . about 5 inch sand bed down there and about 30 pounds of live rock Above display I have an algae scrubber that is in the process of being established Lighting is : 2x 250W 14000K MH , 2 x 54 Watt T-5 FLO 420 NM , 2 x 54 Watt T-5 FLO 460NM, 9 white 1 w lunars and 9 blue 1 watt lunars. Water parameters are all very good . There is one item that I'm not confident on however which Is water temperature. I have been running my tank at about 83 degrees at night and it peaks at just under 86 (85.8 - 85.9) during the day. <I'd lower this, allow it to be a big lower... a good five degrees F. or so> There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this. The mid to upper 70's crew and the "keep it as NSW temps of where the fish came from" crew. Because these are reef animals mostly from the south pacific or Indonesia I thought it would make sense to run it at this temperature. <Ahh, no... see WWM re... I've written and debated extensively re this topic... much better in almost all cases for temperature to be lower... Don't have the time to hash over again here. Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/heatrat.htm and the linked files above> At any rate here is my issue and why I'm so concerned, well call it scared as honestly that's what I am right now. A while back I introduced a very healthy looking Blonde Naso into my tank (no QT and trust me I understand all the reasoning behind doing the Qt I just haven't had an opportunity to set one up yet although I definitely need one and it WILL get done believe me!) The fish was perfect in the store and eating well. I brought him home and initially he was okay (for the first few minutes) but when I tried to feed he did not show interest. Then he began to show "black" coloring. And when I say black I mean it was frightening at first since I had never seen a fish turn completely black like that. Almost like he had donned a ninja outfit. No heavy breathing or other behavior that would lead me to believe he was stressed so I thought maybe those are just his night colors? <Yes.... can be... and patchiness, lighter blotches... But in a word: stress... from?> I did some searching and didn't really find anything leading me to believe that NASO's have "night" colors <Oh, indeed they do. Large Naso lituratus (though I don't condone/suggest this) are collected for ornamental use at night time... sitting/laying on the bottom... Have seen many times> so I began to really be concerned. For the next few days I continued to try without success to get him to eat vigorously. He would eat the occasional passer by seaweed the others would let slip but nothing more than that. I thought maybe he was getting bullied but didn't really see anything to support that. <Often subtle...> Then about the 3rd or 4th day he began to get a white cotton looking crust around his lips. <Oh, might have been damaged in collection, holding shipping... not uncommon> It would almost drift in and out of his mouth occasionally when he breathed. Almost as if he had a fake mustache that wasn't quite staying on? This went on for another 2 days and finally he passed on "I assume" because he never came out of the rocks structure. <Ah no... the question might be... "what caused this fish to go into the rock structure?"> My Cleaners all disappeared for a day or so and all reemerged later on at the same time. It was about a week when I finally gave up all hope that she was alive. I did some research and found that perhaps the stress of the move caused her to get a fungal infection that ended up leading to her demise. I did some asking around at the LFS and it turns out that she had just been brought in that same day when I bought her. A mistake I will NEVER make again. I should have asked but saw her eating which gave me a false sense of security. <You're learning> This time I put a slightly bigger and much thicker specimen in to my tank. Same 2 hour acclimation process. Very healthy and eating although he had been at the LFS for about a week. Eating well as well. I put her in last night and immediately began to see the same type of behavior as the last including the "Black" coloring. I am very very scared now that she will go the same way the other one did and I just can't figure it out. Why the Naso? <Mmm, one important factor that you've mentioned... temperature... and its effect on metabolism AND dissolved oxygen... need to lower...> I have bought all my fish from the same place and all are doing amazingly well? Not to mention the powder browns are supposed to be more difficult to care for than the Nasos ? <... needs more DO> Or at least that's my understanding. BtW I have tried soaking the food in garlic and also tried Zoecon with Zoë« mixture. (have tried brine, pellet, flakes, and seaweed of green, purple, brown and red varieties although I understand they have a preference for the brown) This time no fungus looking white stuff around the mouth (YET!) but I have noticed whitish markings on her skin . She had those from the store and they kind of look like just character marking... just abrasions perhaps. But I'm not sure. I really don't want to lose her . I would be very grateful for any help you can provide. Thank you very much for your time. Very Gratefully, I tried to introduce Joey Freyre <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Lipstick tang, hlth. related to shipping -- 03/03/09 HELP!!!I purchased a lipstick tang and received him FedEx last Friday. After acclimating him to the tank I put him in and he fell to the bottom on his side. He hasn't started eating and lays around most of the day. He has now developed black spots on his head and is very lethargic. I took him from the main tank (125 gal). Should I be concerned and return him or ??? I have read some of the answers on the site but haven't found anything on the black spots. Paul Dodson <Mmm, given the paucity of data offered... and having handled thousands of Naso lituratus on the collecting, shipping, receiving side... I'd leave this fish in the larger system... It is very likely "just" suffering from being moved... will rally or not... but most likely so in the largest, best-circulated circumstance available. Bob Fenner>
Re: lipstick tang -- 03/03/09 Thanks, will try and hope he comes out of it. It doesn't want to eat so I guess it's another learning process for me. <Please see WWM re... Nasos can take time, be mal-affected by env. factors in learning to/accepting novel foods. Cheers, BobF>

Naso Tang 007, hlth. 10/14/08 Dear Crew, I First off, thank you for a wonderful web-site. I just happen upon it a few weeks ago and thoroughly enjoying reading all the vast amount of information. It's very commendable of you to offer such a tremendous service. I do own a copy of CMA. Great book Dr. Fenner! <Mmm, no doctorate, just Bob, please> I'm somewhat of a newbie in that I left the hobby several years ago as time constraints (i.e. 3 children) along with moving to new residence kept me from re-establishing my tank. Anyhow, my reason for writing today is that I am starting up my 300 gal. FOWLR and have made my first fish purchase. One of the fish being a 6" Blonde Naso Tang. This fish was offered at discount through the retailer (F&S) you mention on your web-site frequently. (I wonder if it had been in their tank for long period of time, thus the reason for the discounted price?) <Possibly> I received the fish on Weds. afternoon and by Sat. morning he developed what appears to me to be Lateral Line Disease. I am attaching a picture for your review. The Naso was placed in quarantine tank 30 gal.(4' x 1' x 1' ) upon receipt on Weds. 10/08. The water in the quarantine tank is being treated each day with Kordon's Prevent Ich per their instructions. <Mmm, won't "treat" HLLE... in fact the ingredients here, the further stress... will drive all the other direction> Water parameters are as follows: spg 1.023, <Mmm, low, but likely better here for gas exchange purposes> ammonia 0, nitrites 0, nitrates <5, temp. 76, ph 8.2. He is currently not accepting food i.e. Mysis shrimp, krill dip in vita-Chem, red algae w/garlic sheets, flakes, etc. <Stop! I would move this fish (back) into the 300 gallon setting... The etiology/causative mechanism of the syndrome shown won't "spread" as a consequence to other livestock... and otherwise the chance of this fish resolving is very small> He is not actively swimming around tank, occasional stroll and then sits on bottom. <More bad behavior> Today, Monday, he has started gilling. I have been using a power head position right at the water-line to agitate the surface so that there's plenty of air mixing with the water. <Mmm, not for this species... Move it> Could you please confirm my diagnoses and provide any other information on treatment as well as suggestions on what else can be done to save him. I read all that I could find own your web-site with respect HIHLL and seems to me that the general consensus for its cause is related to nutrition and water quality. <Yes, this is so> With that being the case, what could have caused this condition in such a short period of time (3 1/2 days) given the water parameters? <Stress period... as you speculate, just how long has this fish been kept, moved about in sub-par conditions?> Your response most appreciated. <Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: Emailing: Naso Tag 007... reading... Crypt 10/14/08 Thank you Bob for your response. <Welcome Scott> Sorry about calling you Dr. but, a man of with your wealth of knowledge and experience certainly qualifies you to be one. Just wanted to clarify a few things. First off, the Tang did perish yesterday afternoon ( I wish I had received your reply sooner as I would have acted on your advise to move him). Secondly, I was following the personal recommendation of one Kordon's scientist/marine biologist who said I should quarantine all tangs for about six weeks <Mmm, please see at least WWM re my opinions here and rationale for same... we differ> and treat the quarantine tank initially with Kordon's organic Prevent Ich product <... and my input re this product. NOT reliable> for seven days and stop if no Ich presents. He stated that Tangs were notorious for carrying Ich <This is so> and by using this product it would likely eradicate any internal/external parasites( I assumed he wasn't giving me a sales pitch!). <Mostly> The HIHLL problem did not present until after nearly two days of quarantining. <Likely the Kordon product was more cause here...> I did not realize that the product in question would create additional stress as there is no information to contrary on Kordon's Prevent Ich label/ web-site. Thirdly, I did not do a freshwater dip as your web-site seemed to indicate that this method should not be utilized for Tangs unless parasites were observed on the fish prior to placing it in the quarantine tank. Would this have made a difference for this fish? <Perhaps... but... only can guess> So should I be employing a different strategy for my quarantining fish? <... you should... read> This Kordon product is somewhat new and does not require water changes during treatment (tremendous benefit). <... again, take a look on the BBs... others input... Kordon is a good co., with many fine products... this is not one of them> All other fish, yellow tang, blue hippo, and one spot fox face seem to be doing fine during this treatment. Thank you again for your time. Scott
<BobF>

Questions Cycling / Tank Additions 04/01/2008 Hello guys. <<Hello, Andrew today>> Let me begin by saying that I am new to the aquarium world and this is my first system. I have a 50 gallon bowed tank. I have a TurboFlotor multi sl Aqua medic protein skimmer, the Eheim 60 canister filter Ecco comfort, 2 powerheads, a digital thermometer, a wall of bubbles (to help with water movement), two Corallife Aqua medic 150 w 14000k metal halide lights and 70 lbs of live rock as well as 2 bags of live sand. <<Suggest remove the wall of bubbles, no good for water circulation, powerhead should be used instead>> The tank has been running for 4 weeks. I test the water every other day and for the last week and a half the conditions have been stable Although honestly they only spiked the first week when the live rock was added: Ammonia- 0ppm Calcium- 350 Nitrate- 0ppm Nitrite- .25ppm Ph- 8.2 Temp- 77 to 79 Hydrometer- 1.022 Two weeks into the process I added 3 damsels. <<Yikes>> Three days ago I removed 2 of the damsels and added a Naso tang, 3 mandarin dragonets, 1 flaming scallop, 20 snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Two days ago I added a purple tip anemone, a rose anemone, and another anemone similar to the purple tip. <<OH WOW...Seriously, please stop. Remove all the stock from the tank and return all but the Damsel, snails and cleaner shrimp. This is a brand new setup and the stock is not suitable for this. The Naso tang needs to be in a tank 3 times larger than yours, the dragonettes and anemone's should not be added until the tank is about 9 - 12 months old as they really need a mature / established reef tank to survive>> The Naso was beautiful when I purchased him and swam around the tank like a champ. The day after having him he began to turn dark gray on the right side of his body. <<Stress>> This morning when I awoke he was DEAD and my pink tip anemone has been floating at the top of the tank with the tentacles pointing down and the butt inflated at the water surface. It simply floats around up there. Is this normal? <<No, not normal, reasons stated above>> Why do you suppose my Naso died? <<A combination of new tank, heavy bio-load, lack of space>> I checked the water after removing him and the levels were all normal. I did a 20 percent water change anyway and checked my reading again and they were still the same. I purchased phytoplankton that I have been feeding the scallop, and I have been putting a frozen mixture of omega-3 brine shrimp, squid, Mysis krill, spinach, plankton, and algae. I thaw out the food and put a small amount in the water for the fish and use a turkey baster to place the food directly in the center of the anemones. Please give me any insight to help with what I am or have done wrong. I am so sad to have lost Tommy (Naso tang). I appreciate your time. Thanks in advance! <<Its a hard lesson to learn, the patience and research lesson. These two things are needed when getting into marine systems as a whole. Patience is used to slowly stock the aquarium, research is used to assess and check if you can adequately meet the needs of the specific inhabitant. A hard thing to tell you, but these are the reasons things are failing and inhabitants are dying. Please do use the search function of this site and check the needs / requirements of potential stock for the tank. Learn from this mistake, its a common one>> <<Sorry its not a move positive response, however, its an honest appraisal of the situation. Regards, A Nixon>>

Ill Naso Tang and UV sterilizer Hello Guys, <Hi Scott, Don with you tonight> First of all, you have sold me on the QT and I just purchased one today after reading through the many testimonials on the web site and in light of my sick Naso. I will follow protocol of many other write-ins with a description of set-up and with a few questions. Sorry for the information overload, and thanks for any guidance you can offer to this novice aquarist. Tank description : 75 gallon, custom sea life wet-dry and protein skimmer. live sand, Rio 2500 powerhead, no U.V sterilizer yet, but am currently shopping for one and open for suggestions in this area. Water parameters: ph- 8.2 ammonia - .40 (?color chart!) nitrite - .25 nitrate - 20 --- I can't seem to affect these parameters, with my biweekly 10% water changes, or even after a 25% change today. any suggestions <If these numbers are accurate, you have something dying/decaying (like food, snail, crab, etc) keeping these high. The ammonia and nitrite need to be 0. Could be the 'dry' part of the wet dry filter. Is your skimmer giving good skimmate, dark color/good quantity, daily? It should. Could your tests be inaccurate? See if you have a local Fish Store or another aquarium friend that can confirm?> I purchased a Naso from an out of town dealer with several specimens - half of which had black powdery spots all over and half of which looked and acted fine. I chose one of the healthy ones and after 5 days, mine is looking the same. He has been pacing constantly from one side of tank to the other around rockwork for 3 days. I found him lying motionless this morning and thought he was dead. I have set up a 10 gallon quarantine tank ( I know, finally). I gave it a freshwater dip and placed it in QT. <Yes, we should never buy from a tank (or even an apparent 'clean' tank if the store uses a combined water system) that shows any kind of disease. Never, as you now know :(.> prior to reading your website I : set up QT with all new water (oops) and new sponge filter (2nd oops) -- now what? <Make lots of salt water and aureate the heck out of it. Get ready to use it for daily (20-50%) water changes. You will need to do this to keep ammonia and nitrite in check> also dosed with 1st dose of copper treatment (now wishing I hadn't)-- stop or go? <Hmm, yes, for black spot, fresh water dips are highly successful and much less stressful. Initiate water changes and remove/replace sponge from filter. Make sure the fresh water dips are pH, temp adjusted and aerated> Naso is not eating (offered live kelp, and Mysis shrimp among others)-- hasn't eaten in 3 days <Continue offering, siphoning off uneaten excess right away> I also have yellow tang in tank that was successfully treated for pop-eye, but is showing pale coloring around face. is this disease or nutrition deficiency? I am also concerned about: purchasing an appropriate U.V sterilizer with the correct flow rates-- my water parameters and the ever presence of am, ni, and na-- <I would read here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/UVFAQs.htm and the blue links at the top of the page for more. I found this link by typing 'U.V sterilizer' into the Google search at the bottom of the WetWebMedia.com home page. Try it you'll like it!> my dealer sold me an air pump to match the 10 gallon tank but I'm not sure if it is adequate for this fish-- <I am sure the pump is OK for the QT. A small powerhead is a good idea as well. But let's be frank. The worst news for your fish is that a 75 is possibly (but I don't think so) large enough for a yellow tang. And for the Naso? Forget it as this fish is heading for 18". The Yellow Tang needs 90-120G and the Naso several 100's of gallons. Don>

Naso Nasties.. (Injury or Illness?) Ok- finally about 3 days ago some signs showed up on my Naso... I've never seen this before but I'm sure you all have. It looks like someone just got a knife and scrapped off some of his skin like where his Gills open and close. On both sides. Its weird, kinda brownish blackish but you have to look closely to see this. From far it just looks grey like the rest of his body. He still eats and nips at the rocks. Oh- and He finally is not at the top of the water surface in a corner. He came down about 6 days ago and hasn't gone back since. Now his behavior is a little more normal, except that he scratches his gills a lot on the live rock now. <Well, it sounds like there may have been some kind of traumatic injury, which perhaps became infected?> I must also tell you that I added CopperSafe last Saturday. I'm pretty sure this is the cause for getting rid of whatever he had they kept him in that corner but I don't know what this stuff around the gills is? IT LOOKS LIKE A BURN? Like if the CopperSafe burned his gills ( I know that's prob. stupid) but that what it looks like. <Well, that's not that far fetched, actually...Improperly administered, copper can actually cause damage to fishes...Important to test regularly when you're using copper...I guess that you'll really just have to keep an eye on this fish, to make sure that he appears to be healing properly. Hard to say exactly what happened, so just observe and be prepared to take action if things take a turn for the worse.> I took your advice and ordered an AquaC Remora and had it overnighted to me. YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT THAT THING DID FOR ME. In less the 24 hours the collection cup was full with DISGUSTING brown and green gunk and my water was like 75% clearer. <That's what I'm talkin' about, man! Not bad, those Aqua C skimmers, huh? Jason Kim (Aqua C owner) knows his stuff! That's why we consistently recommend this brand...> I have never seen a skimmer do what this one does. Well please advise me on what action I can take to help my Naso, if any. Thanks again for all your help. <Again, the best course of action I can offer at this point is to keep a close eye on this guy...Keep the water extremely clean, and the environment stable, and feed the fish high quality food often...Hang in there. Regards, Scott F>

Naso With Balance Problems >Dear Crew, >>Hello Allyson. You have Marina today, with my greatest apologies, I've just received your message in my inbox today and I sincerely hope it's not too late. >I love my Naso like a child. We've had him a few years and we bought him when he was approximately 6 inches long. We were stupid. It's too big a fish even for our 125 gallon tank. He belongs in the reef. Our water parameters have been stable for several years but tonight I'll check them again. He's just looking out of sorts. He frequently has a little Ick in the mornings and the cleaner shrimps jump on him and it falls off by the end of the day. He's a fussy eater and will only eat Tetra marine flakes and Caulerpa. He eats these like a pig and the little guy is fat as a house. He still eats OK. There was a period a week ago when we skipped a meal for him (were away for 1 meal-we feed him a lot twice each day by hand). The temperature dropped 3 degrees. Our refugium where we raise Caulerpa and other macroalgae smelled bad and we changed most of the water. It smells fine now. I think the Caulerpa looked a bit unstable at the time but it's not sexual. >>If in doubt, prune it back heavily, being CERTAIN to remove by the full holdfasts, not just breaking off 'leaves'. >During that time, for several days, the fish's yellow face turned dark and he did not swim as actively. He barely ate. We raised the temp to 80 and his face got yellower and he swims and eats more. What is most disturbing is that since that time I see that he has trouble keeping himself upright slightly. It's very slight but he'll swim sideways at times and I see he has his alerting colors on (he gets blotches when he's frightened). >>It seems you're taking the best care of him you can, but I believe he's simply outgrown the system and is displaying the stress (you've made no mention of his current dimensions). This could explain the little bit of Ich, the stress coloration, and possibly the 'balance' issues (swim bladder, possibly? Fish have no inner ear). He's definitely not growing old, these animals can live 20 years easily. >He just seems a little clumsier. He doesn't swim as fast or as agilely lately. I'm trying to see if it's worsening but it's inconsistent. He doesn't have any skin lesions and the Ick is very slight and barely and occasionally visible. I've tried hospital tanks with him but the conditions are so unstable in such a small tank, he does worse so I've given up trying to treat the Ick. >>Yes, also, treating him a hospital tank will do no good whatsoever if there are still other vertebrates in the system upon which the parasite can find a host. The only way for hospitalization to be effective is for the main display to go fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks, though this often proves not to be long enough. >I've done searches here and on reef central and I have not seen balance problems listed much. The few times it was with new fish and they died soon after developing it. I'm hoping he gets better and it was just a minor trauma/infection. >>You've listed no water parameters other than the temperature drop (amount), so I can't really offer much other than a guess and a mantra - when in doubt, do a water change. This won't help him at all if the problem is simply that he's outgrown this system, but it will if, in spite of the presence of the 'fuge, there is a buildup of nitrate or other chemicals we cannot measure without a full laboratory at our disposal. Even then, you might want to have an idea of what you're testing for. You haven't mentioned how big the fish is now, but Nasos grow rather large. Water changes on a large scale will not hurt, and can both replenish lost compounds as well as remove buildups of others. >We've also been administering Joes Juice to kill Majano so I wonder if that has something neurotoxic. >>Be VERY careful with that stuff! From what I understand they do not list any ingredients (proprietary?), and I've read many posts on reefs.org of folks losing their shrimps after using Joe's Juice. I have no idea of it has any neurological effect, this is such a new product and few are regulated in any manner. If you were my customer I wouldn't have sold you this product, and I would now suggest you stop using it altogether. >Bottom line, what could cause this? A vitamin deficiency (he won't eat garlic, Selcon, or any other flake or food than that Tetra marine stuff)? >>Garlic won't provide vitamins or nutrition to fish (think about it, how often do fish get their nutrition from garlic in the wild?), but it has been proven to have a slight to moderate antibiotic effect. The food he will accept can be soaked in Selcon prior to feeding, but you MUST be persistent. Also, Nasos do like some meaty foods, have you offered him the irresistible krill? Variety, especially with such a fish, is KEY. He is behaving like a pet poodle, and you'll have to stand your ground when it comes to sampling different foodstuffs. These fish can easily go several days without feeding - if he gets hungry enough, he WILL try it (assuming he's not actually ill, which I don't believe is the case at this point). >A transient parasitic infection (maybe the Ick got in his balance system)? >>Doubtful, I've not read of such mild infestations affecting an animal's balance. If this were a problem you'd see flashing and rapid gilling, not just balance problems. >What scares me is that this might be a buildup in the Caulerpa toxins. >>Possibly, but again, I do doubt this. I didn't have a problem feeding C. taxifolia to my Z. flavescens, Z. scopas, or other tangs for several years. >I give him a little bit each day as a treat. He loves it. (Won't eat any kind of Nori, broccoli, spinach, Sprung's sea veggies, lettuce, spinach, bok choy etc. for greens). >>Again, he will if he's hungry enough, and again, offer him some meaty foods. >I decided to do this because this little guy has so few pleasures in our small tank, at least he should have that. What was the toxin in Caulerpa so I can read about it? >>This I cannot answer, try searching Anthony Calfo's writings (this is off the top of my head), assuming a general Google turns up nothing. >Thanks, Allyson >>You're welcome, Allyson. At this point, my honest assessment is that the fish is demonstrating end result of too small a system. I'm curious as to whether or not this animal has grown the tail 'streamers' for which they're noted, if not, this, along with the other symptoms you mention lead me to this initial conclusion. Marina
Naso With Balance Problems - Happy Happy Joy Joy! >Dear Crew, >>Hello Allyson. >Oh happy day! My fish is slowly recovering with just good conditions!!! >>As nature intended. >We raised the temp 3 degrees because we saw that was the major change associated with his poor health. Immediately he looked happier (I think I mentioned this before). >>Yes, you did. >Last night he greeted me at the door like he used to. His swimming is slowly more agile. He continues to eat like a pig and is as fat as a house. >>This is very good news, and remember my mantra! When in Doubt, Do a Water Change! >Untergasser's chart (a book on fish disease) on swim bladder has in his chart on swim bladder a few differentials. At first all I saw was autopsy and I freaked. >>Yeah, well, there's only one way to get a postmortem. >Now that I look at it more closely, the most likely diagnosis, given the outcome, is that wall of the air bladder was hardened and inflamed (treated by raising the water temp by 3 to 5 degrees for 5 days). Alternative diagnoses are pretty grim. >>For a fish who's been in captivity for several years, yes, this is true. >At this point, there are several references to autopsies. The air bladder filled with purulent, bacteria-filled fluid-there are a few other presentations related to bacteria (refers to bacteria treatment chart). >>And treatment would absolutely require use of a hospital system. This *can* be done, but with a large fish it is not an inexpensive proposition. >Cysts are in the wall of the air bladder. Inclusions in the wall of the air bladder (no treatment possible). Protozoans are in the kidney and bloodstream. I discussed more details on ReefCentral, including a summary of Untergasser's bacterial treatment mash. >>Yes, I've just read it. Know this, you can go ahead and hypo the animal for Ich, but as I said before, if you don't remove ALL vertebrate life, the Ich will not be gone from that system. It's far better at this point to provide best conditions and nutrition. Know also that garlic is only proved effective as a mild antibiotic, empirical evidence claims appetite stimulation. My assertion is that if a fish is given proper quarters, best water quality and nutrition, nature shall do what she does best and the animal(s) will thrive. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=3795821#post3795821 <please hyperlink!> Thanks for your thoughtful response. Please spread the word about this rare phenomenon. Allyson >>Through you, we shall! Thanks for the follow-up, too, Allyson. I felt terrible thinking that your message had been sitting and it might have been too late. I am VERY pleased that your pet is back on the road to recovery and a long life. Marina

Surgeonfishes: Tangs for Marine Aquariums
Diversity, Selection & Care
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by Robert (Bob) Fenner

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