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Questions Cycling / Tank Additions 04/01/2008 Hello guys. <<Hello, Andrew today>> Let me begin by saying that I am new to the aquarium world and this is my first system. I have a 50 gallon bowed tank. I have a TurboFlotor multi sl Aqua medic protein skimmer, the Eheim 60 canister filter Ecco comfort, 2 powerheads, a digital thermometer, a wall of bubbles (to help with water movement), two Corallife Aqua medic 150 w 14000k metal halide lights and 70 lbs of live rock as well as 2 bags of live sand. <<Suggest remove the wall of bubbles, no good for water circulation, powerhead should be used instead>> The tank has been running for 4 weeks. I test the water every other day and for the last week and a half the conditions have been stable Although honestly they only spiked the first week when the live rock was added: Ammonia- 0ppm Calcium- 350 Nitrate- 0ppm Nitrite- .25ppm Ph- 8.2 Temp- 77 to 79 Hydrometer- 1.022 Two weeks into the process I added 3 damsels. <<Yikes>> Three days ago I removed 2 of the damsels and added a Naso tang, 3 mandarin dragonets, 1 flaming scallop, 20 snails, and a cleaner shrimp. Two days ago I added a purple tip anemone, a rose anemone, and another anemone similar to the purple tip. <<OH WOW...Seriously, please stop. Remove all the stock from the tank and return all but the Damsel, snails and cleaner shrimp. This is a brand new setup and the stock is not suitable for this. The Naso tang needs to be in a tank 3 times larger than yours, the dragonettes and anemone's should not be added until the tank is about 9 - 12 months old as they really need a mature / established reef tank to survive>> The Naso was beautiful when I purchased him and swam around the tank like a champ. The day after having him he began to turn dark gray on the right side of his body. <<Stress>> This morning when I awoke he was DEAD and my pink tip anemone has been floating at the top of the tank with the tentacles pointing down and the butt inflated at the water surface. It simply floats around up there. Is this normal? <<No, not normal, reasons stated above>> Why do you suppose my Naso died? <<A combination of new tank, heavy bio-load, lack of space>> I checked the water after removing him and the levels were all normal. I did a 20 percent water change anyway and checked my reading again and they were still the same. I purchased phytoplankton that I have been feeding the scallop, and I have been putting a frozen mixture of omega-3 brine shrimp, squid, Mysis krill, spinach, plankton, and algae. I thaw out the food and put a small amount in the water for the fish and use a turkey baster to place the food directly in the center of the anemones. Please give me any insight to help with what I am or have done wrong. I am so sad to have lost Tommy (Naso tang). I appreciate your time. Thanks in advance! <<Its a hard lesson to learn, the patience and research lesson. These two things are needed when getting into marine systems as a whole. Patience is used to slowly stock the aquarium, research is used to assess and check if you can adequately meet the needs of the specific inhabitant. A hard thing to tell you, but these are the reasons things are failing and inhabitants are dying. Please do use the search function of this site and check the needs / requirements of potential stock for the tank. Learn from this mistake, its a common one>> <<Sorry its not a move positive response, however, its an honest appraisal of the situation. Regards, A Nixon>> Loss of Naso and Foxface... allelopathy? Hey there, I have question about my reef aquarium. The aquarium has been setup for about 9 months. I use Coralife salt and use well water rather than RO water. My tap water tested at 3 with a TDS meter. This is just as good as RO water so I just decided just to use the well water. There is .2 ppm of phosphate in the water, however, so I put a few drops of CaribSea's Phosbuster and it works great. Well water may be inconsistent, and I have an inkling that it may be the root of my problem, but I'll let you decide when I'm done rambling about my tank and ask the you actual question. The water parameters are as follows: Salinity - 1.025 Temp - 77-79 F Ph - 8.0-8.2 Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate - 0 calcium - 425 Alkalinity - 12 dKH (my alkalinity has always been high, without any supplementation whatsoever.) <Unusual... am wondering how this jives with such a low reading for Total Dissolved Solids?> I dose Seachem's reef complete for calcium, and reef plus for trace elements for the corals. <This is the source> Everything else is replaced by 10% water changes every 10-14 days. Other maintenance includes emptying the skimmer cup and cleaning the glass. The tank is a 75 gallon with a 30 gallon sump. The sump design was based on Melev's reef model F sump. The drain branches off and roughly 30% drains to the fuge section and the rest drains to the skimmer section. Both of these sections then overflow into the return pump section. The sump contains a octopus nw-150 skimmer and a fuge section with Chaeto and Caulerpa as well as a DSB and live rock rubble. My return pump is a Rio 2100. I also run Purigen occasionally in my overflow. In the display, I have roughly 85 pounds of Fiji live rock formed in two patch reef structures. Circulation if provided by the return, a Hydor Koralia #2, and a maxi-jet 1200. The livestock list is as follows: Fish - Yellow Tang Coral Beauty Six Line Wrasse Pair of Ocellaris Clowns 1 green Chromis corals- lots of Zoanthids/Palys (may be a concern also) Ricordea Florida Finger leather Toadstool leather Hammer Several Mushrooms Xenia Inverts- Condylactis anemone (yeah, I want him out, but he's stuck on there GOOD) Common starfish Sand sifting starfish Blue leg hermits (approx 20) Turbo snails (approx 15) Nassarius snails (approx 15) Feather Duster Misc. worms, copepods etc Now, here's the question: In the last two months two of my fish have died out of the blue. The fish are a Foxface lo and a Naso tang (a small one, with plenty of room in the tank) <Mmm, these species really need larger quarters than a 75 gallon tank> The Foxface was the first to go. He died about 2 months ago. He was fine one day, then the next he was found dying on the bottom. I had him for only about 3 months. The Naso Tang died today and exhibited the same symptoms, he was fine one day, then the next day he was found struggling for life at the bottom, only to die a few hours later. I had him for about 8 months. What could be the cause of these fishes death's? <Likely "stress"... from the psychological crowding component mentioned... coupled (more importantly) with negative interaction twixt some of your "corals"... Note that these Acanthuroid fishes are the ones needing the highest dissolved oxygen in your system...> It could very well be anything, but with the information provided I am hoping you guys can figure something out. Thanks. <Please do read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm I would be pulling the Condylactis, with the rock it's attached to; at least. Bob Fenner> Naso Tang behaviour... hlth. 12/11/07 Hi Bob, <Chris> I have a Naso Tang - apprx 5" for 3 months now. Feeding him different algae formulas blood worms and Mysis shrimp soaked in vitamins and garlic. Occasionally gave him lettuce <I wouldn't... no real food value, and too likely a source of unwanted nutrients added to your water> He was always fine and hungry --- 2 days ago he stopped moving around the tank (which he always did) and is sitting in the corner behind live rock. <A very bad sign> He does not eat any more and gets out only at night. He is getting skinnier. <Yikes> I have 155 gallon reef tank where he is the biggest fish (others are several clowns, 2 athias,3 fire fishes, 1 dragon goby,4 Chromis, 2 blood shrimp, Blue cheek trigger (very peaceful) <Maybe...> I have my own versions 1. I noticed that I have long worm in my aquarium (similar to tube worm) - could he harm fish? <Mmm, no> 2.Trigger is attacking Tang behind my back???(never noticed any tricks from him) <Possibly> 3. Something to do with water quality --- I had my nitrates in their 20 lately Best Regards Chris <I have another item to add... there is some good chance this fish has luminal problems... either a loss of useful organisms (like termites) or parasites there. I would treat the fish (perhaps in the main system in this case, circumstances) with a vermifuge and protozoacide (Prazi and Metronidazole). Please see WWM re their use. Bob Fenner> What went wrong... Naso mystery death, too small
QT 8/26/07 Hey WWM crew I would
like to start off by giving all of you there a big thanks for all the
help giving to people on this site. <cool :-) > It has been
extremely helpful to me, making me a much better aquarist. After
reading all the misfortunes of people by not using a quarantine tank
and or dips, and learning how easy it is, I've been convinced to
change my ways. I set up a 10 gal tank and used the water from my main
tank, as well as an established canister filter, and a heater. There is
no gravel, or anything else in the tank, temp is the exact same as the
main tank and the tank is covered. My first fish was a Naso tang. I
drip acclimated him, gave him a Methylene blue dip (using the
directions on the bottle) and put him in the tank making sure there was
no temp difference. A towel was placed around the outside of the tank
to give the fish some since of security. <Hmmm...I'd only
suggest the quarantine tank be bigger and have some PVC pipe parts or
ceramic pots to provide sleeping and hiding places.> Three days
later he was dead. He was found between the heater and the glass
halfway down the tank. <Is there any chance he got stuck?> I had
not performed any water changes in this three days and the quarantine
tank is in the bathroom. The store I bought him at gets his supply
directly from the Philippines and has assured me that cyanide is not
used in it's captured. Also the store had the fish for two weeks
and all livestock looks very healthy and alert to include this tang.
The tank looked healthy and alert up until death other than being
stressed from being moved. That's all; I don't get it, what
went wrong? <God only knows what actually happened. Aquarium fish
die "mysteriously" all the time. In the absence of disease or
obvious water chemistry problems, it's usually stress.
Unfortunately, we aquarists tend to be largely unaware of just how much
stress our fish might be under in a certain situation (or of the more
subtle signs and causes of such stress). Here's a good article with
some good info about fish and stress:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm> Any help
on this would me greatly appreciated so as I don't continue to kill
fish. <The unfortunate truth is that even if you do everything
right, you may still lose a fish or two. But if you're as careful
as you can be, you'll lose far fewer fish.> Thanks again for any
help or advice. Kris <De nada, Sara M.> Naso Tang & Colony Polyps, hlth. and beh. 7/12/07 Hello! I have some concerns about my tank and I hope you can help. I have been monitoring my tank levels and adding the appropriate chemicals as needed, but my orange colony polyps still are not opening up. <Hmm... which chemicals are we talking about here? what exactly are you putting in your tank and how much?> I read that they only like little to no current movement around them and I placed them in a low circulation spot. Do you know why they might not be opening up? <Impossible to say without knowing much more about your tank. What are your ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels? What's your pH? alkalinity? temp? salinity?> I also had my Naso Tang die today. <Bummer> I did not see any parasites on him at all and he seemed to be happy in the tank and was eating ok. Any suggestion on why he might have died? <Again, pretty impossible to say without knowing so much more about your water.> He was a juvenile and only about 3" long. When I bought him he did have some discoloration to him (white spots all around), but I was told that is because he was a juvenile. <or stress> I have a 150 gallon tank that is six feet long. Thanks for your help in advance! <Please do write back with many more details so that we might help you more. Best, Sara M.> Jenny Hugi A couple of q's, Naso hlth./sys., mixing Cnid.s 5/14/07 Hi crew, <Sarena> My fiancé© and I LOVE your site. It has been such a great help! You guys have taught me so much that my non-marine friends are convinced that I am a marine expert because I use acronyms and terms they've never heard like "reverse osmosis" and "QT" (although I am very new to the hobby and still don't know nearly enough!!). <I am fairly old to the hobby and find myself in the same condition!> The first question I have is regarding our Naso Tang. We just got him from saltwaterfish.com (he's about 4 in long). When we first put him in QT, we fed him some frozen Spirulina enriched brine shrimp and he ate it right up. Since then, he will not eat a thing. <This genus of rather open-water tangs really doesn't "like", do well in quarantine... I suggest you do a pre-emptory pH-adjusted FW dip/bath and place it in your hopefully minimum four, better six foot long system> We kept some dried macroalgae on a clip in the corner of the tank...he wouldn't touch it...we even tried soaking it in Garlic Guard. We thought it may have been because he was unhappy in such a small tank (10 gallons) so we moved him over to our display (4 ft long, 72 gallons, good water flow) yesterday. <Ah, good> He was only in QT for about 1 week but we did daily Para Guard treatments during that time so hopefully (fingers crossed) he is parasite free. We still have not seen him eat at all. <Takes a while to adjust... and this fish will likely need to be moved to larger quarters still w/in a half year or so...> He was out and about last night, swimming in place against the water where the flow was heaviest. I'm hoping he's just "adjusting" and maybe that's why he's not eating? <Yes. Very likely so> But it just seems weird that he chowed down on the first day we got him and then not since. <Probably had not eaten for a good while before...> The other thing I noticed today is that he will only come out from hiding when I'm not in the room. If I peak around the corner I'll see him swimming around and then if I walk in the room, he'll quickly go hide behind some rocks and not come back out until I leave. Do you think he'll get over that? <Perhaps... as stated, and posted elsewhere (I have a relatively new article on Naso lituratus on WWM... this fish needs ROOM to feel secure> Ok, second question...about possibly overstocking. Here is the rundown of what's in our tank and I'm wondering if it would be crazy to get anything else (maybe one more fish) or if we should get rid of some of our stuff: It's a 72 gallon reef tank with approx 100lb Fiji live rock. All levels are good with the exception of the nitrates (were around 40-60ppm)...yikes, I know! <Way too high... this needs addressing, fixing NOW> We have been doing almost daily 10 gallon water changes and vacuuming the substrate to get the nitrates down and it has helped (they are now around 15ppm) so we're going to continue to do that until we can get them back to normal. Fish: '¢ the 1 Naso Tang '¢ 2 Percula Clowns '¢ 2 Pajama Cardinals '¢ 1 3-Striped Damsel (bully of the tank) Inverts: '¢ 4 Tiny Blue Leg Hermits '¢ 10 Nassarius Snails '¢ 4 Queen Conches '¢ 1 Fighting Conch '¢ 1 Peppermint Shrimp '¢ 1 Camelback Shrimp '¢ 1 Coral Banded Shrimp '¢ 1 Anemone Crab '¢ 1 Arrow Crab <Keep your eye on this Stenorhynchus... become predatory> '¢ 3 Emerald Crabs <Ditto> '¢ 2 Porcelain Crabs '¢ 2 Sally Lightfoot Crabs '¢ 1 Brittle Starfish '¢ 1 Red Serpent Starfish '¢ 1 Purple Urchin '¢ 1 Cleaner Clam (although I can't find him) '¢ 1 Sand Shifting Cucumber '¢ 1 Yellow Cucumber '¢ 1 Lettuce Nudibranch '¢ 4 Feather Dusters '¢ 1 Long Tentacle Anemone '¢ 2 Pink Tip Haitian Anemones '¢ 1 Atlantic Carpet Anemone '¢ 1 Rock Anemone '¢ 1 Florida Condi Anemone <Mixing anemones together and with other Cnidarians can be very big trouble...> '¢ 1 Red Gorgonian '¢ 1 Deep Sea Yellow Gorgonian '¢ 1 Orange Tree Sponge Corals: '¢ 1 rock of Yellow Polyps '¢ 1 rock of Green Star Polyps '¢ 2 Green Ricordea Mushroom Polyps '¢ 1 rock of Umbrella Mushroom Polyps '¢ 1 Leather Toadstool '¢ 1 rock of Orange and Lime Green Zoanthids '¢ 1 Cladiella '¢ 1 Frilly Mushroom Coral '¢ 1 Christmas Tree Coral Everything seems to be doing great but that's this week...who knows...it seems to change all the time. We recently stocked up a lot on the corals and anemones so I'm worried that we might have overloaded it too quickly and that could be a recipe for disaster. Any insight would be great. <Read on WWM re each of these species, and any future purchases... Ahead of acquisition...> And last question (sorry, this email is getting to be longer than some of the reports I had to write in college!)...one of our Perc. clowns has one gill that sticks out a little bit. He seems completely fine...not acting weird at all, swimming all over the place, and eating well. His gill has been sticking out like that for a few weeks now. We did move him to the QT tank when we first noticed it and treated him for a week and 1/2 with Para guard (thinking it could possibly be a parasite) but the gill didn't change and he seemed to be fine so we moved him back to the display. Should I be worried about it? <Mmm, no... Worrying will not change the future> Thanks again for all of the great info you provide and sorry for the ridiculously long email!! Sarena <No worries. Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner> Blonde Naso Tang Tail 4/23/07 I have had a 3" blonde Naso in my tank for about a month, and he is wonderful, eating algae all the time gets along with the Tomato clown, and 2 cleaner shrimp. No Problems. Today when I got home I noticed a couple of white very small stringy spots on his tail. Almost like something just got caught on his tail. They are Not spots. He is acting fine. I just checked all parameters yesterday and all is good. Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 2.5 ppm, PH 8.2, Alk normal, salinity 1.022, and temp 79.6. He is acting, breathing, and eating as usually, and doesn't seemed bothered. Do you have any ideas. Should the cleaner shrimp take care of it. <Will likely help... These spots may be "nothing" (a reaction series by the Naso lituratus) or could be crustacean or worm of some sort parasites...> They do jump aboard him every now and then. Not panicking yet but just wanted to see what you thought before it got out of hand. You guys are great Thank You Aaron <I would do nothing to treat this/these... but keep up good feeding (have you tried Spectrum pelleted foods, brown macrophytic algae?), and water quality. Bob Fenner> Naso Tang Death - 4/6/07 Alex (or whichever WetWebWizard is answering our query this evening): <It is me again. :-)> You have been a wonderful resource for us, and so we hope you can shed light on this perplexing question (although we suspect it's just "one of those things"). In late January we purchased a beautiful blond Naso tang, about four-five inches long. It took him about two weeks to get used to our Sailfin and Foxface (about the same size) but eventually he got along with everyone. He spent his days swimming back and forth across the front of the tank; back and forth, back and forth, never varying his routine. <This does not sound like a happy fish. This sounds like a fish who wants out.> He ate, he was friendly, no issues. We have a 120 reef tank, <Large by living room standards, but not large by Naso standards.> extra powerhead, good water movement. Anyway, to make a long story shorter, we did a regular water change on Monday (30 gallons) and on Tuesday evening we noticed that the Naso was just hanging out on the left side of the tank, not moving. When we checked the tank Wednesday morning, he was dead. Just like that. No real warning, no apparent sickness. <There are many accounts of sudden Naso death on WWM. My first search result: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nasosysfaqs.htm > We immediately checked all our chemistry, and the tank is perfect. Temp 78, pH 8.3, and big round zeros for ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, phosphates. <good. The only other thing that you can measure that has been blamed for some of these sudden deaths is oxygen level.> Salinity 1.022. <Could be higher.> Any thoughts? <He was clearly not happy with the confined space or tankmates. These are open-water fish that get to 18' very quickly. Possibly an oxygen drop after the water change.> We did have a hair algae problem a few weeks ago (and you helped us through the huge tank cleaning project). We expected some death from the major upheaval (and indeed, lost a yellow tang, a flasher wrasse, a sand goby and an algae blenny in the process). <Hopefully things are stabilizing for your tank now. Keep your stock low for a while, and that will help your algae to slow down. Take plenty of time and research any future fish additions thoroughly, now that you have found us. Shoot for less demanding, smaller, hardier species. Your Sailfin is really enough tang for this tank.> But the Naso seemed to come through it fine. Thanks in advance for your opinions... Michael and Dianne <We hope we can be of some assistance. Thanks, Alex> Quarantine For Naso Tang? 3/28/07 Hi there, hope all is well today. <Not too bad Aaron.> I am going to be ordering from the internet a Blonde Naso Tang, about 3". I had one before and it died from starvation. <Can be problematic to acclimate.> I didn't quarantine (I know) because I thought my 30 gallon QT would be way to small to keep him in for that period. <It's not too bad for a 30 day stay providing it is the only fish in the tank.> Both waters in the tanks are the same. I have live rock in both with plenty of algae growth. <Good> The first died cause my clown would not let him eat. He picked off the rocks and that was it. Anything that I put in the tank the clown got, and the tang was afraid to try. My question is do you think I should QT this guy when I get him in my 30 gallon, or I thought I could make some kind of divider for my 125 (they don't sell them that big) and just get him used to eating. Right now I just have a diamond goby, cleaner shrimp, and tomato clown in there. The clown is an aggressive eater. <Mmm, is a problem acclimating with an aggressive eater. Unless your dealer quarantined, I'd quarantine to be on the safe side, get him acclimated to eating prepared foods with no bullies present. As for the divider, most hardware stores sell acrylic sheets you can cut to fit. Most will even cut it for you. You can then use this for a divider. It then will allow the fish to see each other and allow the tang to eat undisturbed. I'm thinking a couple weeks should suffice, then remove the divider, the tang, by then, shouldn't take any baloney from anyone. Also, read here and related files above for more info. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm> Thanks, <You're welcome. James (Salty Dog)> Aaron
Ill Naso Tang and UV sterilizer Hello Guys, <Hi Scott, Don with you tonight> First of all, you have sold me on the QT and I just purchased one today after reading through the many testimonials on the web site and in light of my sick Naso. I will follow protocol of many other write-ins with a description of set-up and with a few questions. Sorry for the information overload, and thanks for any guidance you can offer to this novice aquarist. Tank description : 75 gallon, custom sea life wet-dry and protein skimmer. live sand, Rio 2500 powerhead, no U.V sterilizer yet, but am currently shopping for one and open for suggestions in this area. Water parameters: ph- 8.2 ammonia - .40 (?color chart!) nitrite - .25 nitrate - 20 --- I can't seem to affect these parameters, with my biweekly 10% water changes, or even after a 25% change today. any suggestions <If these numbers are accurate, you have something dying/decaying (like food, snail, crab, etc) keeping these high. The ammonia and nitrite need to be 0. Could be the 'dry' part of the wet dry filter. Is your skimmer giving good skimmate, dark color/good quantity, daily? It should. Could your tests be inaccurate? See if you have a local Fish Store or another aquarium friend that can confirm?> I purchased a Naso from an out of town dealer with several specimens - half of which had black powdery spots all over and half of which looked and acted fine. I chose one of the healthy ones and after 5 days, mine is looking the same. He has been pacing constantly from one side of tank to the other around rockwork for 3 days. I found him lying motionless this morning and thought he was dead. I have set up a 10 gallon quarantine tank ( I know, finally). I gave it a freshwater dip and placed it in QT. <Yes, we should never buy from a tank (or even an apparent 'clean' tank if the store uses a combined water system) that shows any kind of disease. Never, as you now know :(.> prior to reading your website I : set up QT with all new water (oops) and new sponge filter (2nd oops) -- now what? <Make lots of salt water and aureate the heck out of it. Get ready to use it for daily (20-50%) water changes. You will need to do this to keep ammonia and nitrite in check> also dosed with 1st dose of copper treatment (now wishing I hadn't)-- stop or go? <Hmm, yes, for black spot, fresh water dips are highly successful and much less stressful. Initiate water changes and remove/replace sponge from filter. Make sure the fresh water dips are pH, temp adjusted and aerated> Naso is not eating (offered live kelp, and Mysis shrimp among others)-- hasn't eaten in 3 days <Continue offering, siphoning off uneaten excess right away> I also have yellow tang in tank that was successfully treated for pop-eye, but is showing pale coloring around face. is this disease or nutrition deficiency? <I would increase veggie in diet, maybe a supplement by soaking in Selcon if you can find it> I am also concerned about: purchasing an appropriate U.V sterilizer with the correct flow rates-- my water parameters and the ever presence of am, ni, and na-- <I would read here http://www.wetwebmedia.com/UVFAQs.htm and the blue links at the top of the page for more. I found this link by typing 'U.V sterilizer' into the Google search at the bottom of the WetWebMedia.com home page. Try it you'll like it!> my dealer sold me an air pump to match the 10 gallon tank but I'm not sure if it is adequate for this fish-- <I am sure the pump is OK for the QT. A small powerhead is a good idea as well. But let's be frank. The worst news for your fish is that a 75 is possibly (but I don't think so) large enough for a yellow tang. And for the Naso? Forget it as this fish is heading for 18". The Yellow Tang needs 90-120G and the Naso several 100's of gallons. Don> Naso Nasties.. (Injury or Illness?) Ok- finally about 3 days ago some signs showed up on my Naso... I've never seen this before but I'm sure you all have. It looks like someone just got a knife and scrapped off some of his skin like where his Gills open and close. On both sides. Its weird, kinda brownish blackish but you have to look closely to see this. From far it just looks grey like the rest of his body. He still eats and nips at the rocks. Oh- and He finally is not at the top of the water surface in a corner. He came down about 6 days ago and hasn't gone back since. Now his behavior is a little more normal, except that he scratches his gills a lot on the live rock now. <Well, it sounds like there may have been some kind of traumatic injury, which perhaps became infected?> I must also tell you that I added CopperSafe last Saturday. I'm pretty sure this is the cause for getting rid of whatever he had they kept him in that corner but I don't know what this stuff around the gills is? IT LOOKS LIKE A BURN? Like if the CopperSafe burned his gills ( I know that's prob. stupid) but that what it looks like. <Well, that's not that far fetched, actually...Improperly administered, copper can actually cause damage to fishes...Important to test regularly when you're using copper...I guess that you'll really just have to keep an eye on this fish, to make sure that he appears to be healing properly. Hard to say exactly what happened, so just observe and be prepared to take action if things take a turn for the worse.> I took your advice and ordered an AquaC Remora and had it overnighted to me. YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT THAT THING DID FOR ME. In less the 24 hours the collection cup was full with DISGUSTING brown and green gunk and my water was like 75% clearer. <That's what I'm talkin' about, man! Not bad, those Aqua C skimmers, huh? Jason Kim (Aqua C owner) knows his stuff! That's why we consistently recommend this brand...> I have never seen a skimmer do what this one does. Well please advise me on what action I can take to help my Naso, if any. Thanks again for all your help. <Again, the best course of action I can offer at this point is to keep a close eye on this guy...Keep the water extremely clean, and the environment stable, and feed the fish high quality food often...Hang in there. Regards, Scott F> Naso tang problems Hello, over the time of taking care of my fish I do a lot of research, reading books and message boards. And I have heard on the message boards from a lot of people that there Naso tangs do perfect for about 6 mos. and then suddenly they wake up and there Nasos are dead, I am one of these people as well. There are no disease signs, there perfect looking, until they croak. After my Naso died I asked my LFS about it, he said for the past year or so Nasos have been doing bad. He told me too about the 6 mos. problem with Nasos. He said he tries making big deals so he doesn't have a dead Naso in his store. Did you ever hear about this? <Mmm, no definite time frame on these sorts of mysterious losses. Most of the Naso lituratus sold do die from being kept in too small a volume, size systems principally (starving is another large source of captive mortality)> I want to try another Naso, is there any other way I can avoid losing another Naso. I think these fish are awesome. BTW my tank is 240 gallons, water quality great. Thanks! <Please see here re selection: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/naso.htm Bob Fenner> Freshwater Dips: Blackspot disease II 12/29/04 I actually had my security settings too high and it wasn't allowing me to search the site effectively. Not only did I find the information I was looking for but resources that I will return to for years! Thanks so much for compiling and offering all of this insight. <excellent to hear! You are quite welcome> I did a freshwater dip on my Naso tang and am following up with quarantine and malachite green treatment and it already looks much better and is feeding well in the qt tank. I will continue for three weeks in the qt and will then do another dip before returning it to my display tank. Thanks Again! Elizabeth Turner <A good rule of thumb is to release the specimen from QT only after 4 weeks of disease-free symptoms. kindly, Anthony> Naso tang fin disease First,,,, I wish I had found this site sooner, truly a wonderful source of expert opinion. <Our intention> I have a juvenile Naso tang (lituratus) about 5-6 inches in length who for the past 3 months has had a frayed tail and ventral fins (fins look like they were partially eaten away and have a little bit of a rough white exudate on them). <Mmmm, should have "grown back" over this time... if suitable environment (size, tankmates...), nutrition available> He looks great otherwise and eats like a champ. <Eating what? "Breakfast of Champions?"... hopefully substantial amounts of brown, red, green algae...> My local fish store here in Hawaii recommended Melafix for the fin issue. I had stepped up water changes without any change in the fin prior to trying the Melafix. I currently am on day 5 of the MelaFix treatment and wonder if I should finish out the 7 days or stop. Does this sound like Ich and if so what treatment if any would you recommend? <This homeopathic remedy I am NOT a fan of... has a mild anti-microbial effect... NOT useful on protozoan complaints> I have a 125 gallon SW tank, which has been running for 5 months with great water quality. Fish load is light with only a white spotted puffer, squirrel fish, blue damsel, and flame angel. Everyone else looks great. Thanks, Eric <Try bolstering the Nasos diet with soaking it in a vitamin prep. (e.g. Selcon), offering soaked/dried algae with a clip at the water's surface. Bob Fenner> <<Mmm, should have suggested he go collect his own Limu, living in Hawai'i... RMF>> Naso Tang with cloudy eyes (more: antibiotic use) Hello all,
I have a customer with a Naso Tang that has stopped feeding and has
cloudy eyes. All of their water parameters look good and this
particular customer is very diligent in maintenance and feeding. I have
never experienced this type of problem and honestly have rarely had to
use antibiotics with any saltwater fish so I would be very appreciative
if you could recommend any antibiotic or other course of treatment.
<May well be that this animal (especially if it is the only one thus
affected in the system) just mechanically injured itself (ran into the
sides, rock)... this happens with Naso tang species (need room)... and
that there is no specific treatment advised, advisable... other than
good maintenance practices, self-healing> Also, if you could
recommend particular antibiotics for treatment of various
"common" bacterial type infections in saltwater fish I would
be grateful. <There are none. Most all infectious diseases of
ornamental aquatics are secondary, tertiary... opportunistic due to
deficiencies in water quality, nutrition, battering by tankmates, the
odd genetic anomaly... some antimicrobials like Furan compounds are
efficacious as adjuncts to improving ones chances in improving
conditions overall... in some cases dips/baths, feeding, injection
(intramuscularly mainly) of antibiotics is something to be suggested...
but the cases are few, specific> In my years of keeping saltwater
fish both as a hobbyist and now an LFS owner I really can't recall
needing to use antibiotics so I feel a bit inept when asked how to
treat these types of problems. <Oh, agreed. This has been my
experience, recollection as well. Bob Fenner> Thanks, Richard Naso Tang ... selection? - 2/11/2006 I bought a Blonde Naso
Tang last week. I bought him because the "expert"
at the LFS said these were hardy fish and not particularly disease
prone. <He's also a comedian too?> He also tested my water
and told me it was fine, but I didn't ask the specific
parameters. He told me that he had been quarantining using a
UV sterilizer for approximately 1 month. The Naso has been in my tank
for 4.5 days. I noticed two days ago that he has white spots
on his fins. The same "expert" at the LFS advised
me to give him a bath in 2.5 gals of fresh water and 11 drops of
formalin with an antibiotic in the water. Is this the way to
treat that? <I'd like to ask you a question
first. Why didn't you quarantine the fish before placing
it in your tank? This makes an effective treatment much
easier. Freshwater dips are usually the first stage in
treatment. Do Google search our Wet Web site, keyword
"freshwater dip". You will find your info
there. I'm also hoping you have at least a 70 gallon
tank for that guy for starters as they can attain a length of up to 8
inches and do require plenty of swimming room. James (Salty
Dog)> Donna Naso With Balance Problems >Dear Crew,
>>Hello Allyson. You have Marina today, with my
greatest apologies, I've just received your message in my inbox
today and I sincerely hope it's not too late. >I love my Naso
like a child. We've had him a few years and we bought
him when he was approximately 6 inches long. We were
stupid. It's too big a fish even for our 125 gallon
tank. He belongs in the reef. Our water
parameters have been stable for several years but tonight I'll
check them again. He's just looking out of
sorts. He frequently has a little Ick in the mornings and
the cleaner shrimps jump on him and it falls off by the end of the
day. He's a fussy eater and will only eat Tetra marine
flakes and Caulerpa. He eats these like a pig and the little
guy is fat as a house. He still eats OK. There
was a period a week ago when we skipped a meal for him (were away for 1
meal-we feed him a lot twice each day by hand). The
temperature dropped 3 degrees. Our refugium where we raise
Caulerpa and other macroalgae smelled bad and we changed most of the
water. It smells fine now. I think the Caulerpa
looked a bit unstable at the time but it's not sexual.
>>If in doubt, prune it back heavily, being CERTAIN to remove by
the full holdfasts, not just breaking off 'leaves'. >During
that time, for several days, the fish's yellow face turned dark and
he did not swim as actively. He barely ate. We
raised the temp to 80 and his face got yellower and he swims and eats
more. What is most disturbing is that since that time I see
that he has trouble keeping himself upright
slightly. It's very slight but he'll swim sideways
at times and I see he has his alerting colors on (he gets blotches when
he's frightened). >>It seems you're taking
the best care of him you can, but I believe he's simply outgrown
the system and is displaying the stress (you've made no mention of
his current dimensions). This could explain the little bit
of Ich, the stress coloration, and possibly the 'balance'
issues (swim bladder, possibly? Fish have no inner
ear). He's definitely not growing old, these animals can
live 20 years easily. >He just seems a little
clumsier. He doesn't swim as fast or as agilely
lately. I'm trying to see if it's worsening but
it's inconsistent. He doesn't have any skin lesions
and the Ick is very slight and barely and occasionally
visible. I've tried hospital tanks with him but the
conditions are so unstable in such a small tank, he does worse so
I've given up trying to treat the Ick. >>Yes, also, treating
him a hospital tank will do no good whatsoever if there are still other
vertebrates in the system upon which the parasite can find a
host. The only way for hospitalization to be effective is
for the main display to go fallow for a minimum of 6 weeks, though this
often proves not to be long enough. >I've done searches here and
on reef central and I have not seen balance problems listed
much. The few times it was with new fish and they died soon
after developing it. I'm hoping he gets better and it
was just a minor trauma/infection. >>You've
listed no water parameters other than the temperature drop (amount), so
I can't really offer much other than a guess and a mantra - when in
doubt, do a water change. This won't help him at all if
the problem is simply that he's outgrown this system, but it will
if, in spite of the presence of the 'fuge, there is a buildup of
nitrate or other chemicals we cannot measure without a full laboratory
at our disposal. Even then, you might want to have an idea
of what you're testing for. You haven't mentioned
how big the fish is now, but Nasos grow rather
large. Water changes on a large scale will not hurt, and can
both replenish lost compounds as well as remove buildups of others.
>We've also been administering Joes Juice to kill Majano so I
wonder if that has something neurotoxic. >>Be VERY
careful with that stuff! From what I understand they do not
list any ingredients (proprietary?), and I've read many posts on
reefs.org of folks losing their shrimps after using Joe's
Juice. I have no idea of it has any neurological effect,
this is such a new product and few are regulated in any
manner. If you were my customer I wouldn't have sold you
this product, and I would now suggest you stop using it altogether.
>Bottom line, what could cause this? A vitamin deficiency
(he won't eat garlic, Selcon, or any other flake or food than that
Tetra marine stuff)? >>Garlic won't provide
vitamins or nutrition to fish (think about it, how often do fish get
their nutrition from garlic in the wild?), but it has been proven to
have a slight to moderate antibiotic effect. The food he
will accept can be soaked in Selcon prior to feeding, but you MUST be
persistent. Also, Nasos do like some meaty foods, have you
offered him the irresistible krill? Variety, especially with
such a fish, is KEY. He is behaving like a pet poodle, and
you'll have to stand your ground when it comes to sampling
different foodstuffs. These fish can easily go several days
without feeding - if he gets hungry enough, he WILL try it (assuming
he's not actually ill, which I don't believe is the case at
this point). >A transient parasitic infection (maybe the Ick got in
his balance system)? >>Doubtful, I've not read of
such mild infestations affecting an animal's balance. If
this were a problem you'd see flashing and rapid gilling, not just
balance problems. >What scares me is that this might be a buildup in
the Caulerpa toxins. >>Possibly, but again, I do
doubt this. I didn't have a problem feeding C. taxifolia
to my Z. flavescens, Z. scopas, or other tangs for several years. >I
give him a little bit each day as a treat. He loves
it. (Won't eat any kind of Nori, broccoli, spinach,
Sprung's sea veggies, lettuce, spinach, bok choy etc. for
greens). >>Again, he will if he's hungry enough,
and again, offer him some meaty foods. >I decided to do this because
this little guy has so few pleasures in our small tank, at least he
should have that. What was the toxin in Caulerpa so I can
read about it? >>This I cannot answer, try searching Anthony
Calfo's writings (this is off the top of my head), assuming a
general Google turns up nothing. >Thanks, Allyson >>You're
welcome, Allyson. At this point, my honest assessment is
that the fish is demonstrating end result of too small a
system. I'm curious as to whether or not this animal has
grown the tail 'streamers' for which they're noted, if not,
this, along with the other symptoms you mention lead me to this initial
conclusion. Marina Re: Naso Tangs. . . (more to fish health, knowing and the nature
of the human experience) One more question if you don't mind. .
. how will I know when it's time to move the Naso to a larger tank?
Will he start acting unhappy? Signs of limited swimming, loss of
appetite, etc.? <These behavioral changes are hard to discern, but
yes, all the above> Also, off the current subject, I am just very
frustrated and don't know where to turn. I love your website but
frankly, I'm very new to this hobby (only about 9 months) and I
don't know a lot about what I read. . .some of it is very confusing
and hard to understand. So, where can I go to get some basic knowledge
to help me understand and grow into learning this hobby? <Though it
is supposedly shame-faced to do so, I will plug a worthwhile general
(beginner-oriented) book on marine aquarium keeping of which I am the
author: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Available from e-tailers,
the large book-sellers, fish shops. Very worthwhile> Frustration
also exists in the fact that there are so many conflicting opinions.
For instance, last night I noticed a small spot on my maroon
clown's fin that looked like fin rot. I went to your website and
found basically conflicting opinions (in the chat room) regarding
Melafix and Maracyn. These are the only two medicines that I know of at
all. I decided to use Melafix (because it seemed to be a safer, more
natural product and the fin rot is minimal) but then this morning
searched the WetWebMedia and found where you say you don't
recommend it so now I feel like I've done something horrible.
<Mmm, not horrible... Understand the nature of our sites as mere
extensions of related human experience... There are many (different)
humans, hence opinions... And that "Aquariology" is not
altogether a "science", but art and "voodoo" as
well... Embrace and revel in these differences (really).> What
should I have done for the maroon clown (have I hurt the other fish in
the tank that are not showing signs of fin rot?) <I would
likely have "done nothing" if just the one fish affected, one
spot...> and where can I go to get GOOD, solid information on
treatment of diseases? <There are books on the subject (see Ed
Noga's name on the Google Search), but with some general
understanding of what diseases are ("The Three Sets of
Factors..."), and good practice at picking out proper species,
good specimens, some simple dip/bath and quarantine procedures, decent
nutrition, regular aquarium maintenance, you are unlikely to need to
know much or anything about "disease"> I trust you, Mr.
Fenner, from all of the things I've heard and the books that
you've written you are one of the few that I would trust. I just
wish you could give out your phone number! :) When it's 10:00 p.m.
and you don't know what to do for your fish it's frustrating!
Please help and give me some guidance if possible. I apologize for
being so longwinded but I just am at my wit's end. I love my fish
and want to take the best care of them but I can't find a solid
guideline to help me. Is there a book that you've written
that's kind of a catch all for everything? <Ah, yes. TCMA>
Thanks for your help! I appreciate you so much. <Glad to help my
friend. Try to "step back" and enjoy your experience, even
the apparent frustration, un-knowing... all will become clearer with
time, experience, study, reflection, you'll see. Bob Fenner> Rapid Gill pumping.... Bob, or who-ever is kind enough to respond to my dilemma: <Anthony Calfo in your service> About a week ago I decided to add a small Blonde Naso Tang to my 90 gallon aquarium. <already sounds like an "I didn't quarantine my fish and now they have a disease" story...<wink>. Critical to QT my friend> He's around 6 inches in length. Today I noticed that his breathing seemed very irregular. The irregularity is just this; his gill pumping seems quite excessive. Earlier today I performed a small water change, around 10 gallons. I didn't think that this would cause any kind of trauma to the fish in the tank. <did the rapid gilling commence abruptly with the water change?> I do this on a weekly basis. After taking some readings I recorded a level of 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, less than 10 ppm nitrate, and a specific gravity of about 1.022. The ph level has been pretty constant at around 8.0-8.1. <pH is definitely low if that is a daytime reading (pH falls even lower at night) Target 8.3-8.6...but still it would not cause the rapid gilling> His behavior doesn't seem out of the ordinary, at least for what I have been able to notice from the last six days. He swims all over the tank, but doesn't seem to pace. He is eating quite a bit. <all good signs indeed> In fact it was after his last feeding that I noticed the increased gill pumping. <yes... usually a bit after a big feeding but relaxes shortly afterward (hours)> I tried to count how many pumps per minute occurred, but I couldn't keep up with him. It is well above 100 beats per minute by my count. <while respiration varies among fishes, 100 per second is fast enough to be concerned and to be on the look out for signs of parasitic infection or other pathogenic cause. Do review quarantine tank set up and procedure in preparedness of a medication treatment if necessary. You will almost never want to medicate the main display (many reasons... again, review FAQs in archives)> I haven't seen any change in his tank mate, a small Passer angel. <very good> Any ideas....advice? Thanks in advance, Michael Mariani Let's hope he is alive to hear what you have to say....... <continue with stable water quality, good feeding and water changes. You may try a slightly lower salinity to improve levels of dissolved oxygen if nothing else (.001-.002 daily drop until 1.018 SG). Please spend your next $100 on a QT setup instead of another fish <wink>... it saves money and lives. Anthony Brown/Black spots on tang I have a problem with the tank and am not sure what to do. My LFS recommends using Greenex but I have read of awful "happenings" using this stuff on your website. It doesn't sound like you recommend it. <cure or kill solution... usually the latter> I went home for lunch today and my Naso Tang has very light brown/black spots all over him. It does not resemble black Ich. They are not round spots. It's hard to explain. . . never seen anything like it before. I tested the water and it is perfect. He is acting fine -- eating well and swimming. What should I do? Do you recommend anything to try or just watch it for a day or so? No other fish show these signs. . . I'm at a loss. Please help. . . . <sounds like Turbellid worms. Hard to cure but slow to kill fish. A bare QT tank for 2-4 weeks with formalin and occasional freshwater dips would be best for this before it spreads to other fish (mostly tangs, butterflies and angels)> Thanks! <quite welcome. Anthony> Naso Relapse... Anthony, I have a feeling I'm going to wear out my welcome, <no worries, my friend> but unfortunately I am in need of some advice yet again. I used the search option on your web page but could find very little info about my new problem. If you remember we have been going back and forth about my blonde Naso, which became ill over the weekend. Well since the transport into a QT, and subsequent treatment with Greenex which started on Monday, his Ich cleared up, his appetite increased and the gilling ceased. In fact he was looking very good, up until last night. The Ich has come back, which isn't a big problem I was expecting that. <indeed> The new problem is that the poor guy now has cloudy eyes. To be exact it looks like there is a kind of film which has coated the eye. Also he refused food, both last night and this morning. <secondary infection or response to the aggressive Greenex treatment> I searched on WetWebMedia.com for any articles relating to this. Really all I found were articles relating to exopthalmia, which he definitely doesn't have. There is zero swelling around the eyes. <agreed> I set up the quarantine tank using water from the main display. So my thinking is that whatever was in the main display, to cause his sickness in the first place, is still there making him sick. <the water was appropriate... the fish is immuno-compromised and brought it in on his, er... person> I was hoping that treatment would help this. Could this be a side infection, initiated by the Ich weakening his immune system? <either or both> Is this yet another type of protozoan infection? Is there anything I can do, outside of a quick water change, to aide him? Should I do anything? <I still rank freshwater dips above all including Greenex> I realize this is a lot of questions. But since I'm not out of the woods yet, I was hoping you could help point the way. <no trouble... a common problem. Naso may still be quite fine in a week. Easy on that Greenex please. It is cure or kill.> Thank you, Michael Mariani <best regards, Anthony> Ich, another parasite, or stress??? I recently purchased a
Naso tang that appears to Ich, but I'm not sure (I'm new to
this). The Tang had a few white spots which now only really appear when
the fish turns a darker shade of grey. What concerns me is that it now
has some white patches on it, as if it has been scratching. I have
started to treat it in a separate tank with Melafix and CopperSafe, I
have also given it a fresh water dip. I have noticed that it has not
eaten anything in several days. Is there anything else I can do?
Thanks, Kyle <Maybe. I would lower the specific gravity and stop the
Melafix. Please read over the Ich, treatment, tang, tank
troubleshooting... sections of our site: www.WetWebMedia.com, starting
here: http://wetwebmedia.com/tanktroubleshting.htm Bob Fenner> Re: pls tell me your are online... (Naso demise) So far he is
still alive.... 5 and a half hours after the move.... I also moved the
cleaner wrasse into the hospital with him. The cleaner has been picking
at Naso almost none stop. Naso even has Ich inside his mouth.... He
opens his mouth really wide... I guess wanting wrasse to clean inside
there. <Hopefully> I am doing the SeaChem Cupramine treatment...
I did a test and it is at 0.15 for now.... I will continue to test and
adjust as needed (hopefully) <Good> THE PLAN: I will not buy more
fish for the rest of the year..... <Let's not go that far> I
will however get a Neon Goby and maybe a fourth cleaner shrimp. I am
considering dropping the Salinity if another fish shows symptoms. <I
would do this pre-emptively. Like starting NOW> If not should I drop
it anyway? <Yes> If I can afford it should I get another tank for
fish only and move all the fish over there for treatment or just to
simply let the tank fallow for a few months? <The former is
better> Would a 55 gallon be enough for a purple tang, yellow tang,
6 line wrasse, Percula clown, scooter blenny and a Naso I hope?
<Yes> Does a FO tank require more than natural light? <No, not
for treatment purposes. No photosynthetic life, no need for extra
lighting> Or is that not necessary if no other fish show symptoms?
<The system and its occupants do have the disease, whether they are
currently showing symptoms or no... your situation is "in-between
stages of infestation"... study the life history of
Cryptocaryon... as time goes by (just a few days) you will start to
evidence "multi-generational stages"...> The Ich would
then be considered in check with the current cleaner crew?
<Possibly... but if/when "balance" shifts to the worsening
of conditions for your fish livestock/hosts... Bob Fenner> Ich Life Cycle,,, adventures of Naso Hey Bob, I read about
the Ich cycle a bit more and came across some info about the Cyst
encased in gelatin stage.... <Yes> I believe I saw one a long
time ago.... <Not visible to the "naked eye"> I thought
that it was just mucus released by one of the corals.... So could this
have been a Cyst at the bottom of my tank? It is/was about 1/2 an inch
in diameter max. Is it safe to suck it out during a water change every
time I see one? I have seen one on 2 separate occasions.... about 2
weeks ago and say 5 weeks ago....Knowledge.... there is no
substitute..... Again your guidance is very appreciated, Robert PS. Do
the cleaner shrimp eat Ich in the Tomite stage or cyst stage? <They
consume the encysted stages minimally (and necrotic tissue, mucus...)
on the fish hosts only. Bob Fenner> Naso Tang Quick question. Today I noticed that my Naso tang was breathing really heavy and was not eating. The other fish look to be doing fine and so do the xenia, mushrooms, and buttons. Checked the water parameters and everything seems fine. I am running a skimmer in the sump and two power heads in the tank so they should be getting enough oxygen. Don't know what to do? Please give me some suggestions <the fish may be showing the early stages of a serious parasite infection that has started in the gills. Please consult our section on Wet Web Media on quarantine tanks for preparedness. If this fish needs medication it will need to be done in a QT tank to be effective and to spare poisoning your biological filter and calcareous media. Best regards, Anthony>
Re: Naso Okay here is the new situation I was feeding my tang
from a droplet. When I took him out I noticed his vent was very swollen
I pushed on his stomach gently and something started to come It looked
like jelly I looked a little closer and saw that it had a tiny vein so
I stopped pushing. I don't know what it was I didn't look like
excretion or a worm. I was thinking maybe it was his bladder and its so
swollen that he can't release himself. Just a theory I wanted to
run this by you maybe it is not a worm. If my theory is correct what
course of action should I take to resolve this if their is any. If
I'm wrong what is your opinion. <Just this fish's distended
alimentary system> Also about the Epsom salt 1/2 saltwater 1/2
freshwater 2 table spoons of Epsom salt per gallon I have done that 3
days ago for 10 minutes as a dip. You told me only once would work, can
we rule out blockage? Thanks always appreciate your quick response.
<Hopeful this fish will eat on its own soon. Bob Fenner> Naso Tang Hello, Recently got a Naso Tang.. it has white spots on it.. person at LFS said it is because the tang is scared. Is that something that really happens when they're just stressed, or should I be worried? <Mmm... I would be concerned... the white spots... are they "raised" in appearance? Transitional, or are they on the fish all day? Any other fishes showing signs? Likely the beginning of an Ich infestation. Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisease.htm going on to the links beyond as your interest, need leads you. Bob Fenner> Lisa H. Naso Tangs have a couple of fish that have white spots on there body. I have a 110 gal reef tank. I set up a 6 gal hospital tank to treat the 2 fish that showed signs of these spots "Ick" 1 Blue Hippo Tang and 1 Naso Tang. The Naso Tang didn't have as many spots as the Blue Hippo but when I put them both in the tank after about 1 hour the Naso started to fling everywhere in the tank and just croaked. This was very upsetting. My Local fish store told me to set up the hospital tank and treat it with copper and place the fish in the hospital tank. They told me to do the follow. 1/Take water out of main tank to fill the hospital tank 2/Add copper to hospital tank and bring to level .20 ppm (after some reading I was a little unsure about the ppm level so I put it at .10-.13 ppm just to be safe) The blue hippo has been in the hospital tank for 24 hours now and doing ok. I also have 3 Percula true clowns now showing the white spots on there body as well as gasping very quickly for air. I am unsure whether I am missing something here as to I am very new to Marine Aquariums and never dealt with any diseases. I am afraid to put these little guys in the hospital tank because I don't want them to die just like the Naso did. I know that Ick is 2-3 week moving parasite on the host so I wanted to wait and get a response from you on how to proceed, or what I need to change. These guys normal diet is frozen-live brine shrimp, romaine lettuce (for tangs) and Marine Flake Food. My system uses a Wet/Dry Trickle filtration system and as a SeaClone Skimmer also. Any help as soon as possible would be appreciated, as to I don't like to see these poor things pass away. Its just really sad. <<Who can say why the Naso reacted so negatively to the procedure... these species do not enjoy small systems... a six gallon is very tiny to them... I would have suggested a higher initial concentration of free copper... more like .35ppm and never letting the residual drop below .20... I would move the damsels, all other fishes and treat them together... Do read over the "Ich" pieces on the site: Home Page regarding what to do with your main system going forward... And do develop and adhere to an acclimation protocol going forward to prevent having these problems. Bob Fenner>> Black spot (markings on a Naso Tang) Bob, Just to confirm. I'm pasting your description below. Yesterday, we had what looked like tiny white spots that disappeared and moved around like bubbles just in front of the lower/ventral fin. Now it looks like a fine black powder on the ventral/bottom fin of our Naso tang. If this is "black spot" you suggest fresh water dip. It doesn't look like a worm (I think someone called it a small ciliated protozoan?) Dakin says it can spread to the gills and they can suffocate. How long do we have before this happens? <What? Do you have access to a microscope? I would scrape off some of these "black spots" and take a closer look... they are not ciliated Protozoans (e.g. Ich)... these are too small to see with the "naked eye"... and moving about?> The fish is visiting the cleaner shrimp (they don't look too interested). Perhaps this will go away? It's weird because within the first hour the fish was awake, it looks like some of it has disappeared (not all of it). It always seems that diseases are worse in the morning...is that because the cleaner shrimp pick things off during the day? Treatment: Freshwater dip: adjust pH (w/baking soda), temp, truly FRESH water or should we just have a slightly lower specific gravity (e.g.1.019)? Additives to dip: Copper we've got Cupramine--what concentration?.2?)--perhaps some Methylene blue? Formalin? Do any of these things interact? If we have to choose, which is the most useful and least toxic to the fish? 2-10 minutes? Should the black spot disappear during this time? Should we just do it for 10 min or as long as the fish can tolerate? I suspect he'll freak out regardless.--some aeration Should 1 dip suffice? We've been getting Caulerpa and trying to grow it from a friend's tank. Do you think that might have transported it? He's got a yellow tang but it looked great. One notable exception is Para vortex, the causative agent of "black spot disease", notably of yellow tangs. This is easily eliminated via freshwater dipping, though other authors suggest formalin baths and organophosphate remedies. Turbellarians, a group in the flatworm Phylum Platyhelminths are mostly "free-living" non-parasitic species. Thanks, Allyson <This is not Paravortex... on a Naso Tang... maybe a trematode/fluke... I wouldn't necessarily "treat it" unless symptomatically this condition seemed to be seriously negatively impacting this animals behavior. Bob Fenner> Sick Naso Hey Bob, This is a new one to me. I have had him for almost 4 years. Has had symptoms for about 6 days. Symptoms: not feeding partial cloudy eye (getting a little better) color changes from very dark to normal listless (except for occasional swim) when swimming, bumps into rocks and corals seems like he is blind. possible poisoning? some kind of internal parasite? <Maybe... but more likely a bad "bump" in the night... the tank top or side... do try a water change, offering some Nori sheet algae on a plastic clip...> This fish stresses real bad when moved so I have not moved him yet. Not sure what to treat for so nothing drastic right now. Any help would be appreciated . Thanks <Agreed re the moving... don't. Do try to be patient, and offer the algae, do the water change... Bob Fenner> Sick Tang? Hey, My Naso Tang is a little red around the
gills. He is eating well and acting normal. The water is at about 1.023
but I changed my water yesterday and before then it was at 1.018. The
ammonia is at 0 and there are slight traces of nitrites. Is this a
natural thing or is he sick. Also, I lost 2 turbo snail this week. I
think it was do to my salinity being low but I'm not sure because
I'm new at the invertebrate game. Thank You, Jonathan Pac
<Yowzah... this specific gravity change is way too fast... about one
thousandth a day is maximum... Be careful that you haven't
depopulated your beneficial nitrifying bacteria here... and take things
much slower henceforth... otherwise you'll have more than a Nasos
red gill covers. Re: confused-urgent Ich problem Dear Bob, When we put the little Naso back in his home tank, he continued to look better and the next morning his dark spots were barely there. He still looks good. We called all over town and found a few cleaner shrimps. I wanted them anyway and I hope they can avoid becoming an expensive lunch for the hermits. <Yes, they should be able to co-exist... unless you have "mean" species of Hermits... and/or both are hungry...> I love that little Naso (not so little). He's amazingly intelligent. I hand fed him Sunday as much as he would not spit out while he was in the copper tank. Now he eats out of my hand reliably. After yesterday, though, he turns distress colors when he sees the net. I hope I can win his trust back. <You will> Thanks for all the replies. People tell us getting a UV filter will prevent this. <No... a myth> Now I'm just hoping the shrimp and fish "bond". By the way, your web site is an excellent source of info. (I would expect nothing less given that your book was so wonderful). <Ahh, thank you> I can't help it. I love this fish. Thanks again, Allyson <Be chatting my friend. Bob Fenner> Naso Troubles Thanks for the quick response! I apologize for asking another (unrelated) question, so soon on the heels of the last one, but I forgot to ask it last time. I have a Naso tang who seems to be wasting away. A friend took care of all of my fish for a few months, while I was in between tanks. When I got them back a month ago, they all seemed to be a bit on the thin side, but most have come back nicely. The Naso, however, seems to look worse. He seems interested in food, and vigorously attacks the sushi Nori that I feed every day, but he spits out whatever he chews. He does seem to keep all of the frozen and flake foods down. Is this something that you're familiar with? Can you suggest anything? Thanks again, Dan <Yes. Do try other "human intended" (especially Rhodophyte, Red Algae (though they'll likely look green...) species like Rhodymenia, Gracilaria... and soak all in Selcon (or other vitamin prep.s like Zoecon, Microvit...) a good fifteen minutes before offering them to your Naso... and some meaty foods you can suspend on a "feeding spoon" near the surface... Bob Fenner> Fast Breathing Naso I have a Naso Tang that has started to "breath" very fast for about two weeks now. Believe it or not I think it is the result of a Picasso Trigger that I had in my 125 gallon tank (he is gone now). The Picasso harassed everyone in the tank. The Tang developed parasites so I treated the whole tank with copper (just to prevent other fish from becoming infected) and put him into a 20 gallon hospital tank with Paragon II where he has been for the last four days. Nothing appears to be helping the breathing. Any other suggestions? <<Yes Michael, let time go by without further stressing the Naso. These are highly active fish that take a beating with being moved, treated, and harassed... and the trials you describe have done a few things that will take a while to "heal". For one, fishes have much higher hematocrit (packed cell volume, or concentration of cells to plasma) than humans... all the moving, beating and the copper have reduced the animals cell count (dangerously). Add to this that fishes live in an environment of a few (up to seven or eight) ppm of dissolved oxygen (versus 200,000 ppm plus in the stuff we're "swimming" around in) and you can see why the fish can't "catch its breath"! Don't disturb the animal any more than absolutely necessary and it will come back. Bob Fenner>> New Naso Good to write you again which must mean I have a problem. Actually it is more of asking a question to prevent the spread of a problem, if it is a problem that is. Anyway, the problem is that I have just purchased a Naso tang 3 days ago, and up to 2 days he looked great and acted great. He eats like a pig and enjoys swimming and looking the whole tank over, normal stuff ya know. Anyway, last night I noticed that around the inside of his orange lips it looked like he had a layer of white mucus like crap. Like someone had stuck a white rubber ring on the inside of his lips. As the day went on and the fish went picking and eating algae off the rocks he just generally rubbed the white filmy crap off. So I thought that was the end of it, since it has not stopping his eating. I forgot to mention, when I first received the fish it looked like it had some slight pickings at its fins that are on its sides next to it's gills, sorry I can't remember the fin name <pectorals>. I didn't think anything of it, I have had fish come in like that before, I just figured he was getting a little bit of bothering, but what fish doesn't every now and then, and I figured it would heal up in a week or so. Anyway, come this morning the film was back around the mouth and now the picked edges of his fins had some white film on them too. I thought maybe his eye looked like it was starting to cloud a bit but I could be wrong so disregard that statement. Anyway, do you have any ideas what this could be, if it is anything? I was thinking maybe a bacterial parasite of some sort. The only reason I hope it is this is because the only other disease that I have seen that looks like this is a Microsporidean infection, and if it is that I am a goner, or at least the fish is. But I really don't think it is that. if it is a parasitical infection how should I treat it? I have been told different ways. Some people tell me that a fresh water dip will cure it, bad thing is I don't know how long to dip them, you could help me with that. The other is a long bath in Methylene blue. So your help is greatly appreciated and needed, thank you. John Moyer <<I don't think there is actually anything wrong with your Naso (lituratus) Tang... what you describe is likely "just" some sort of mucus that the animal is producing in reaction to being handled, and healing... And I would not net and dip it... not worth the stress and damage from the dip procedure itself... Keep feeding and enjoying the animal...Bob Fenner>> Naso Not so Good Hello <Hi, Ryan here> I have a Naso
tang (lituratus) with streamers and he is not eaten since a couple of
days, I have checked water parameters and they are all fine (still did
a water change) except the ph that was about 7.8 I raise it to 8.1over
a two day period ,the thing is yesterday the fish had ate a little bit
not as much that normally eat!!!!( had not eat for two, tree days
before that )and now today he stopped again and I notice that is lips
are white (like a fungus or something covering the lips ) and he is
staying on the top part of the tank all he other fish are fine and
healthy and eating fine .????????? <Hi. A change in pH
from 7.8 to 8.1 can have negative effects on sensitive
livestock. I recommend you start to buffer your pH (sounds
like you already are), and add something to stabilize your calcium and
alkalinity. B-Ionic is simple as pie. As for
feeding, I would try and offer some frozen Formula 2 and
Nori. The white lips you are describing is probably a sign
of a bacterial infection. Is this a new fish? I
would take him out, isolate him and treat with a Furazolidone and
Nitrofurazone medication, and follow the directions to the
T. Good luck, Ryan> I am starting to freak
out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! don't want to loose that fish !!! how many
time can they stay without eating ? Would like to have any help or
advice you think might help Thanks Strange Naso Symptoms (3/26/04) Just found your web site and found it extremely interesting regarding Nasos. I maintain aquariums for several businesses and have had a problem with Nasos. <Believe me, many do.> Seems after several months they get a series of pinprick spot on the sides mostly just below the top fin and behind the head. Looks like someone took a pin and gouged out a tiny spot. They tend to be dark in color. Also seem to have a few white protrusions (very small) here and there. No idea if they are related to the same problem. The first fish finally died after months of this "stuff" slowly spreading to cover a fairly large area. Treated with copper without any results. <Hopefully not in the display tanks.> Current fish has only 15 or 20 spots currently, eats well, acts normal and is in a 125 gallon aquarium. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Jon Bartnick <It's always hard to say without seeing. I'm wondering if this is HLLE. Do read up on it and look at some pix on WWM. The other option would seem to be some sort of parasite. If you have a fish die, it would be interesting to look at some lesions under a microscope to look for parasites. Check out the HLLE possibilities first. Hope this helps some. Steve Allen> Naso Tang Blowing In The Current? I have a question for the fish experts at WetWebMedia. My Naso tang has been doing great for over 5 months in my 180 tank. Recently he has begun to swim with a waggle, for lack of a better term and he will turn sideways and roll. Rather than being quick and alert like he always has been, he is being blown around a little more by the current. Should I be concerned or is there any actions / diagnosis you would recommend? <Good observation on your part. Although it may be nothing to worry about, the fact that this normally very strong fish is displaying some signs of weakness, getting blown around in the current-is certainly a cause for some concern. If you are not seeing any other obvious external signs of illness, such as white spots, excessive mucus, rapid breathing, etc., then no further actions may be required except for continued good husbandry. On the other hands, if additional symptoms of disease manifest themselves, please feel free to let us know.> He is eating well - mostly seaweed selects green algae on a clip with some Selcon soaked in. He now eats some of the Mysis and flake that I feed the rest of the tank (yellow tang, ocellaris clown, lawnmower blenny). Could this be a nutritional issue? <It is certainly possible. I'd try offering some fresh macroalgae, such as Gracilaria, which is en excellent supplement for tangs. You can get some at my favorite e-tailer, Indo Pacific Sea Farms. An excellent food for herbivorous tangs!> Until recently, he had no interest in anything I would feed except the algae on a clip. The other fish are fine and the yellow tang is acting as usual. The two tangs have always been a little scrappy but nothing to the point of injury. The only other abnormal thing that I can think of is that the Naso will sometimes have a circular lump in the stomach area after eating. <I would not be overly concerned about that at this point, unless the fish shows other difficulties...> Any insight you may have is appreciated. <At this stage of the game, I'd employ continued observation, frequent small water changes, regular feeding, and testing of water to assure that all is well. In short- keep doing what you're doing! Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>
Naso In Trouble? Hi, <Hello there! Scott F. at your service> I am quarantining my first Naso Tang. I've had him over a month and he seems to be doing OK. Likes to eat Sargassum and spaghetti algae but hasn't really gotten into flake food or brine shrimp yet. Very aware and curious of my presence, relaxed breathing and a decent belly. <All good signs> I'd like to put him in the aquarium but I wanted to check with you first. My only concern are these light blotches or patches on its skin. To me the blotches seem to have always been there, not getting worse or better. They aren't raised or fuzzy either. I've attached a photo. Is this a normal discoloration related to the confines of a QT. Thanks, Justin <Well Justin- first off, I commend you on your use of quarantine! An excellent practice that will benefit you and your fishes for years to come! As far as the blotches, it's hard to say what they might be. If the fish appears otherwise healthy, eats well, and is not in any apparent discomfort, then I'd be inclined to release the fish on schedule. Could be anything from a genetic fault to a light trauma incurred by scraping himself against aquarium decor. If you maintain excellent water quality, and keep feeding this guy carefully, he should be just fine. Good luck! Regards, Scott F> Black Spot on Fin (NASO TANG) Hello, You have a great web
site!! I have a 130 gal. salt water with a few damsels and a large
puffer and a 11" Naso tang. I noticed yesterday a black spot on
one fin. I have had him about a month and he came from a friends tank.
He shudders a lot , but no signs of anything! <Mmm, could be
"nothing"... the shuddering is natural... some melanistic
spots on Naso lituratus come and go...> I keep a low dose of copper
in the tank, however recently I removed all of it with a carbon pad.
<I would not keep copper constantly in a main/display tank>
Should I retreat with copper or formalin? <No> He eats and looks
great! Nitrates have been a little high but I do weekly water changes
and everything else looks good! He constantly shakes a lot.
It this <This animal does shake naturally as stated (even in the
ocean), but it may be shaking more due to being in small confines... I
would look into ultimately trading it in for a smaller specimen (like
half this length) in your 130... or getting a much larger, longer
system for it. Bob Fenner> Naso Tangs Hello Bob, <Hello Sanjay> I'm unsure if you remember, but approx 3 months ago I wrote to you regarding Naso tangs and intestinal worms. My plan was to investigate intestinal worms in Naso tangs as a reason for their decline in captivity. <Interesting possibility> I purchased a healthy six inch Naso and introduced it to my QT system. It settled in well and after a week or so I began my experiment. To half a cube of frozen food I added approx 20mg of an anti-thelmic preparation called Mebendazole. I obtained the liquid form which sticks to frozen food. I fed this twice a day for two days without any ill effects to the Naso. However I did not see any worms. <Have you taken a look to and through the scientific literature on issues involving such worms and Surgeonfishes?> On the third day, hey presto, hundreds of tiny round worms (confirmed by the local vet) about 1 cm in length. Nasty looking organisms might I add. <Have any pix?> The QT tank had a little live rock, which proved to be a great mistake. Many worms sought refuge in this rock. At the same time the anti-thelmic agent seemed to dislodge the worms, but did not kill them. I tried to remove as many as I could. The tang re-ingested the worms and began to decline in the same manner as my previous Naso did in my main system. The Naso became increasingly thin over a few days. Eventually the tang died from what I suspect to be an over load of worms. I decided to discard the live rock, but as I was about to do so, I spotted a very large round worm about half an inch thick and six inches in length. My conclusion from the above may provide a reason for why Naso tangs decline for no apparent reason in captivity. <One hypothesis... how will or might you go about devising experiments to prove, disprove it?> I am not repeating this exercise as I do not want to be responsible for another Naso death. However I believe that importers of these beautiful creatures may find my studies interesting and take on the responsibility of de-worming these fish before they are passed on to retailers, (in an Ideal world). <... better to have a larger sample size... and more "cures" folks can attempt> I also conclude that those who read this post and decide to de-worm a fish in QT, must do so with either a more effective anti-thelmic drug or a greater concentration of Mebendazole. Ensuring the tank is devoid of live rock is also essential. <Okay> Hope this has been of interest to you, thanks in advance for taking an interest. Regards Sanjay Patel <And thank you for writing. Bob Fenner> - Shoe-horn Quarantine - Greetings Crew, I really hope you can help me to keep a Naso Tang alive. I currently have a 3.5" (mouth to tail) Blonde Naso Tang that is frightened of absolutely everything. His gills and fins begin to flap like a hummingbird's wings any time I get near his tank, turn the lights on or off or anything inside or near his tank moves. He turns nearly black in color, with white spots. There are times when gilling is normal and he regains normal coloration but I must remain completely still for several minutes to see this. What really has me concerned is his lack of appetite. I have had this Naso for three days now and I have still not seen it eat. This is my third Naso and all three have suffered the same symptom of not eating. Although the first two Naso Tangs died, I have had very good success with all my other fish so I had hoped I just happened upon two unhealthy fish previously and this one would live a long life. The only difference with this fish is that it does appear to have eaten at some point before I received it. The previous two Nasos were very thin (concave, in fact) but this one is more rounded - "full-bodied". This Naso is currently in a 20 gallon QT with a 2" Purple Tang. <You should separate these fish - not a good size for two tangs.> I have not noticed any aggression (they were added at the same time). <Still... too close quarters.> For the first day I also had a flame angel and a tiny clown goby in this tank as well but I have since moved them to my 55 gallon QT. <I would do this the other way around with the clown and goby in the smaller quarantine and the larger fish in the 55 - even better would be to have the Naso in there by itself.> Ammonia and Nitrite is at 0 PPM, Nitrate = 20 PPM, salinity = 1.023 SG and temp = 79 Degrees F. I perform ~20% water changes every third day (using water from my 180 gallon main tank). The tangs showed signs of Cryptocaryon so I medicated with CLOUT for three days, until all white spots were gone. I am not using copper at this time because I used this on the previous Nasos and thought this might have played a part in their lack of appetite as I have read that some tangs are sensitive to copper. <Perhaps.> I have tried feeding Formula 2, Nori, Spectrum pellets, flake food, chopped silversides (Selcon-soaked), Zooplankton and even brine shrimp (Selcon soaked) but the Naso has shown no interest in any of these. The purple tang seems to like all of these. What else could I try? <I'd stick with the algae and other green foods - what you might want to try is thaw out some frozen formula two and then press that into a chunk of live rock and re-freeze. When it's feeding time, thaw out a little bit and place in the tank. This should allow the fish to duplicate its natural feeding behaviour which is picking at algae on rocks. Again, I'd remove the second tang from this tank so there is no competition for this food.> Is there any "irresistible" fish food? <Not that I can think of other than live algae growing on live rock - this is what they eat in the wild.> I QT all new fish for 4 weeks (or 4 weeks after the last signs of Ich). I use the drip method to acclimate fish over about a 45 minute period. I feed any existing fish in the tank before adding new fish and I leave the lights off for at least four hours after adding new fish to the QT. There are two cave-shaped pieces of live rock in the QT for hiding. I try to remain out of sight of the tank except for feeding for the first day or two, until the fish get accustomed to their new surroundings. What else could I do to make the transition easier for this fish? <Remove that second tang.> What could I possibly do to get the Naso to eat? <Have detailed my ideas... can't think of much else.> Are Naso Tangs of this size just not hardy, do you see any issues with my husbandry or do you think I just had a very bad coincidence (3 very sick Nasos - 1 from my LFS and two from an online store)? <Combination of factors - capture and transport is very stressful, and this usually takes weeks to come down from.> I have considered moving the Purple Tang to the 55 gallon QT but this larger QT contains a 6" Powder Blue Tang, a porcupine puffer, a flame angel, 3 ocellaris clowns, a Longnose B/F, a Royal Gramma, a Lawnmower Blenny and a Clown Goby. <My friend, you have too many fish in this quarantine. You really need to be dealing with and then placing one fish at a time. Additionally, you have too many tangs... you're going to have problems in the long run with this mix.> I think the Purple Tang would probably hold its own with the Powder Blue but the 55 gallon QT is already a bit crowded and I also thought the Naso might be encouraged to eat by watching the Purple Tang. <I think you're overcrowding your quarantine.> What are your thoughts regarding what I should do - move fish? <Slow down - one fish at a time.> different foods? medication? fish shiatsu? buy a larger Naso Tang that is eating at the LFS instead of taking the risk on smaller fish? <None of the above - you need to adjust your behaviours. The fish are just reacting to the situations you are putting them into.> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, as I do not want to be unintentionally harming this fish or wasting money on a type of fish that is "impossible" to keep. I did not think Naso Tangs were supposed to be delicate fish. <They typically aren't.> Are Blonde Nasos more/less hardy than those that are not from the Red Sea? <Not that I'm aware of.> -- Greg <Cheers, J -- > - White Spots on Naso Tang - Hi Crew, I have a
3"-4" Blonde Naso Tang with small white specks surrounding
the perimeter of both pectoral fins and a white tuft (approx 3/16"
long) attached to the lower, rear anal fin. I have tried to
take pictures of this but I have been unable to produce any that show
the problem. There is not a single (visible) spot of Cryptocaryon on
the fish's body. It did have a mild case of crypto and refused to
eat for the first four days after it arrived about 1 1/2 weeks ago so I
began treating with CLOUT for two days, followed by CopperSafe since
that time. The Royal Gramma that is in the QT with the Naso developed a
case of fin and tail rot so I also treated the tank with Maracyn 2 and
Melafix. All fins on both fish are completely clear and
perfectly healed now. I gave the Naso an 8 minute freshwater
dip four days ago, in an attempt to rid it of these few white specks,
but this had no effect. The tang is eating very well now
and, other than these few white specks on the fin edges, it appears to
be perfectly healthy. The white spots are very pronounced
though. They are approximately the size of a grain of salt
(except for the white mass / tuft on the anal fin) and they appear to
be lightly sitting on top of the fin edge. I know the white salt
grain-sized specs sounds like Cryptocaryon but I have maintained a
constant 2.0 PPM level of Cu++ (chelated CopperSafe) in this QT for
nearly 1 1/2 weeks now, followed by freshwater dips. I have
also examined this fish very closely and there are absolutely no other
white spots except for these isolated few at the very outer edges of
the pectoral fins so this is making me think this fish has something
other than crypto. Any ideas? <It's probably just residual
marking from the Cryptocaryon. Given the level of copper and the fact
that the fish is otherwise eating and doing well, I'd let it
continue in quarantine... always keeping an eye on things, make sure
those spots don't turn into something else, get infected, etc.>
Water parameters: Salinity = 1.022, Temp = 82 Deg. F, Ammonia = 0 PPM,
Nitrites = 0 PPM, Nitrates = 20 PPM, 2.0 PPM Cu++, weekly 25% water
changes. Your help is greatly appreciated! --Greg
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