Tang With Ich or Velvet or other? 12/15/05 Hello my wonderful WWM Team, you all are a true blessing! I pour over your information like a wolverine ALL THE TIME to research new tank inhabitants, care, disease, reef care, etc... I true database of information! Here we go. Tank: 29 gallon Bio & Carbon filters, Eclipse hood w/upgraded lighting and add-on circulation unit. About 20 lbs of Live Rock & additional live sand. Tank Inhabitants (currently alive and well): 2 percula clown fish 1 firefish goby 1 clown goby 1 juvenile Powder Blue Tang <... in a too small world... Really needs hundreds of gallons.> 1 Rose BTA <If something goes wrong in such small confines...> 1 SPS Hammer 1 Blood Red Cleaner Shrimp 7 Hermit Crabs 8 Astrea Snails 5 Sand-Sifting Snails (Nass's) I had recently purchased two juvenile clown gobies and a neon goby from my LFS. <Not to go in this same system I hope/trust> This was exactly 18 days ago. Sad to say I have not gathered enough SW care equipment to have a quarantine tank (I know, I know!) - so I acclimated my new tank inhabitants in the only tank I currently own. <You're learning... by fire> The clown gobies fought with each other the first couple days, one becoming very shy and elusive. She used to hide a lot while the other fed (and/or he chased her and they locked jaws a lot, I figured they were sorting things out) but I did in fact observed her eating - have not seen her at all for about 7 days now, was hoping she was still hiding in the LR eating the live food that naturally resided there, but I fear she's gone (crab meal). <Only one should be kept here... remove the other if it's still about.> The neon was very active and aggressively wanted to clean my powder blue tang. (The tang rarely sat still enough for the shrimp to clean him unless he was with it in the rockwork). So he was a great eater, very active, did very "goby things" as I would call it. Then one day (about three days ago) I did not see him during feeding time front and center eating like a maniac. I looked around, he was tucked in the LR and eating here and there, but not like his true self. I did not see him the next day. Today during feeding he must have just died because the crabs were cleaning the fresh carcass (I could see the blue stripes still on him very vividly). I am not sure what he died of at all. He acclimated and got along with everything so very well. Well upon my daughter looking at the remains of the goby. She said, "What's wrong with the tang?" My heart sank - I ran over to the tank. He has what looks like and I can only describe as "chicken pox" - it does not look like ich or marine velvet (to me) but can be either or. How did he get it? <Environmental to a large degree... perhaps a parasite, pathogenic input from the non-acclimated/new livestock...> Could it have come over on the gobies? <Yes> The tang was "flashing" - rubbing up against the rockwork two days ago quite a bit (looking silly I thought - he is quite the character, but I did not notice any spots on him then as I know this can be a sign of a problem). He didn't really have any "white dots" so I looked up black spot - nope not that either. And I am not sure if it is even velvet. They are grayish bumps all over his body. On the dark areas of his face, the spots look like white faded scars, on the light areas they look like a soft gray spot. His white fin on the bottom has what looks like gray spots on it. He is acting very normally, eating, swimming patterns, etc. not getting aggressive towards anyone. I checked my water params and everything seemed normal on my end - but I am taking a sample to the LFS in case I had some sort of error (double checking myself) and salinity is perfect, temp is between 79-81 degrees (usual for my tank). He is not presenting himself that I can see to the blood red shrimp - and did not allow the neon goby to clean more than a few seconds (as he is so active). I heard both of these animals help with ich - is it just my tang is too active to allow for a good cleaning? <Mmm, no> The tang has been in my tank for about 8 months without ever showing signs of sickness except for when I did a large water change once (breathing very quickly - I literally held him in front of the minimal eclipse hood flow I had so he didn't have to work so hard to get flow over his gills. <Good observation> I held him for a few moments in the flow (he actually allowed me to), he was calm and seemed to catch his breath so to speak and I released him from my one-handed cupping and he was fine after that with no draw backs - don't know what that was about but he never exhibited any spotting/discoloration that might have gone along with a disease or infection. Other than that, he has been a happy, healthy and extremely friendly fish to all of his tank mates. <Eight months is a good long time for this species in captivity in general... remarkable in this small setting> He is very bumpy - almost pimply looking. Like I said, appears to be a lot like chicken pox all over his body. They are dull-colored splotches, like I said they discolor whatever color it was on. It made the dark areas appear to be light (like an old scar would be on a person), and light areas have a gray tint. It did not "coat the fish" as the velvet pics show - but had defined spots/bumps. I read and read and read through the tang disease and other diseases and have not found something that fits this description (I did try to do my research!). I thought perhaps with the history of my introduced inhabitants and their behavior/deaths might help you to help me. <... you need a much larger system...> I love my tang (aka: "Fat Head") and would do what's necessary to help him. I have pre-mixed salt at home already with pH buffer missed as well that is about 4 days old. Any suggestions on what I can do now (yes, I am buying a quarantine tank TODAY!) I read you all don't favor copper treatments. Any other suggestions on how to treat the reef tank - and should I remove all the other fish even tho they are showing no signs of the ich/velvet? <Not a treatment per se... but barring moving this fish to a large, stable system with a good deal of cured live rock, possibly "mud filtration", there is not much that can/will "cure" it> I am so afraid I don't know what I am diagnosing and I don't want to treat them, stress them, <You are wise here> then realize I have to treat them all over again for using the wrong medications. HELP! Damage control! (PS: I tried to take some pictures of him, but he is never still and ends up being blurred and you can't see anything. sorry I could not send them along with this request.) Thanks in advance for any help in figuring out what this is and helping me and my fishies - you all are THE BEST and I really appreciate all of the hard work put into having WWM and your selfless contributions to fish-keeping society. Warm Regards and many hugs - Christine <Thank you... am sure you've read my piece on Acanthurus leucosternon posted on WWM, and the accompanying FAQs files... I would review these again. Copper, formalin, other treatment are not efficacious here... this fish needs to be moved to better quarters... soon, to survive. Bob Fenner>

Mystery Malady? Hey Crew! Need your help again! Thanks for your advice! <Glad to be here for you! Scott F. with you today!> I have had this beautiful Powder Blue for 2 weeks now, he has been eating like a monster, and doing well with the other roommates. Parameters: Temp 82 75 gal. w/20 gal. sump/fuge growing Caulerpa; EV-240 skimmer; 140# LR, 4-5" fine substrate pH 8.2 Yellow tang, Picasso Trigger, Volitans Lion, Powder Blue tang NH3 0 NO2 0 NO3 20 <Water conditions sound good...At some point, a larger tank is in order for this crowd!> The last two days the Powder Blue has exhibited the discoloration shown in the photo, he has lost the black to his face. These look like abrasions with some inflammation, but are difficult to visualize due to his speed. <I see...> They are on both sides, and various body parts including his face, which makes me think more along the lines of a fungal infection or such. I'm setting up a Hospital tank now and will QT him until further ID of problem. Thanks again for your help! Ed Carter, RN, BSN, CCRN <Unfortunately, I didn't get the pic, so I'm compelled to take a guess here. Discolorations like you describe could be anything from a non-lethal malady like Head and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE), which generally is diet or environmentally-induced, to a more serious fungal infection, as you theorize. Usually, HLLE has a gradual onset of symptoms, so you may indeed be looking at some sort of fungal disorder. Are there any other symptoms? Lack of appetite? Heavy breathing? Obvious distress or discomfort shown by the fish? If you could try again with the picture, we might be better able to diagnose this malady. Until then, your quarantine procedure is correct. Keep the water quality high, feed carefully, and take note of further symptoms. I'd avoid any medications until you get a handle on just what this affliction may be. In some cases, these types of non-lethal disorders clear themselves up with the passage of time and a good clean environment. Hang in there! Regards, Scott F.>