Bicolor Angel Question
Hello Mr. Bob Fenner,
<<Hi Long, Craig here today>>
I've been reading on the website and do appreciate all the help you've given everyone. Just reading everyone's questions and answers helps a great deal since I'm a beginner. I've read that the Bicolor Angel tend to eat mainly from liverock. I have a 40 gallon aquarium with 45 lbs of liverock. Other fishes I have: 1 Mandarin Dragonet, 1 Percula Clown, 1 Chalk Basslet, 1 Peppermint shrimp, 1 Coral Banded Shrimp. The one thing I wanted to ask you was whether I should get any hermit crabs and snails. I only have about 4 snails right now and 1 small hermit crab. I have quite a bit of algae on the rocks and was wanting to get more creatures to help clean it. I was concerned that if I got too many they would eat all the algae and the Bicolor wouldn't have anything to pick on. What would you suggest on this matter. Thanks in advance. Long
<<I think you have some stocking issues here Long. You Mandarin needs a minimum of 75 lbs of LR to have a sufficient pod population to survive unless he is fed. This is difficult. I would look into getting him to eat Mysis shrimp, grow pods in a refugium, etc. He will slowly starve if he doesn't get enough food. Maybe return him to the store or sell him to someone who has the space and rock to support him.
Your coral banded shrimp, if not well fed, will help himself to your peppermint when it molts. In a 40 your bi-color angel will need to be fed anyway as there isn't enough space or rock. He will assist in cleaning rock, glass etc. but can't rely on this for sustenance. The snails etc. do depend on this for their sole source of food.
You can add snails if yours appear to not keep up. This runs in cycles so stock carefully. Hermits are a personal choice. Do check out the additional info on stocking at WWM and perhaps search for additional info on your angel and Basslet so you have all the information you need to successfully keep them. Lot's to do! Craig>>

Re: Bicolor Angel Question
Thanks for the info. I was wondering if you could give me more information on how the pods that you mentioned. Where would I go to purchase the seeds and how long does it usually take to develop.
<<Hi Tran, Please search WWM for "Amphipods". These are small marine animals used for food by such fish as your Mandarin. You need a large enough aquarium to hold 75 lbs of live rock, or you need to have a refugium where these can reproduce and grow. You need to either feed your fish another kind of nutritional food like Mysis shrimp and see if he will eat them, or give him enough live rock to foster the population of amphipods needed to maintain their population and your mandarin to feed himself. Please see WWM and search for amphipods and refugiums, there is much excellent info there. Craig>>

- Bicolor Angel Woes -
I first want to thank you in advance for your help!!!!! <Well... let's both hope that I actually can help then...>
My Bicolor Angel has not eaten in a week. I just bought him a week ago and he is so shy and will not eat. I am trying to feed him flake food and Brine Shrimp and he will not eat?? What can I do to get him to eat? Its one of the most beautiful fish I have ever seen! <First, I would suggest you read up on these fish here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/centropyge/index.htm
Then, I will just quickly paraphrase and say that these fish are among the more difficult of the pygmy angels to keep. You've picked yourself a good challenge. Your best bet would be to obtain [if you don't have it already] some really healthy live rock with a good crop of micro- and macro algae that this fish can pick at. Most all pygmy angels constantly pick at these food-stuffs in the wild, and bringing in similar fauna will promote your success. If things don't turn around very soon, or if you can't get the live rock, try taking a frozen food like Pygmy Angel Formula - thaw it out, and then press small chunks of it into a piece of rock or smooth [dead] coral. This will simulate their natural food source and likewise their natural method for feeding. You can prepare several rocks in one sitting and re-freeze the ones you don't use immediately. Cheers, J -- >

- Re: Bicolor Angel Woes -
Thanks for the quick response! <My pleasure.> I will go out tomorrow and get some healthy live rock. When you say "similar fauna" what do you mean... <Micro and macro algae> I'm sorry for asking so many questions. <No worries.> In the mean time I could do as you said and get the frozen food and put it in some of the rock that I have. You are a life saver and thank you for your time!!!!! Merry Xmas to you and yours!!!!
<And you as well. Cheers, J -- >

Bicolor beauty mark?
<Hi Mike, PF here this PM>
I just ran across your site and could not find specific info on my dilemma with a newly acquired bi-color angelfish.. this beautiful fish was introduced to my 60 gallon tank last Thursday and was healthy looking to my untrained eyes.. I covered the tank with the lights off for the first 24 hours. <Good procedure> I did not attempt to feed this fish until the next day... it has been one week now and this fish still hides in the live rock and only eats algae, or so it appears... my most urgent problem is a pink wart like growth by one of its gills, size looks to be about 4mm in size. I have since noticing this growth added Melafix, a Melaleuca tea tree oil as this has always helped the fish's skin to retain bacteria resistant "oils"?. do you have a name for this growth and possibly a solution for this most elegant fish?? in advance, thank you for your help... mike
<Well Mike, digging through the FAQs this is what I found:
(here's the FAQ btw www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/disease. tm )
From Bob on a wart like growth on an angel: (Sound familiar?)
<Well, thanks for the last comment... and thanks for causing me to get out all my older and latest "fish disease" reference works... To sum up: Idiopathic epidermal proliferation (i.e. the type of tumor you're describing) have no direct cause-effect relationship... many authors cite water "contaminants" as probable cause... and yes, there are incidents and suggestions that when such "neoplasm's" occur on the outer surface of a fish that some sort of surgery might/has proven worthwhile...
If it were me though... I'd just attempt to improve and hold steady your water quality, and if (I know the species and it is a good feeder) the animal is still feeding, apply a vitamin, iodine mix (these are made for fish foods as well as humans) to its food immediately before offering it.
I wouldn't "try" anti microbials, or anti-protozoals... And I would try to be upbeat. Bob Fenner >
<Hopefully this helps. You may want to feed it Mysis, or perhaps live brine (this is basically water flavored shrimp, but they love it, it's ok as an occasional treat - think of it as fish junk food) to get it feeding. You can gut load the brine with vitamins such as Selco, that wouldn't hurt to add it to it's diet. Have a good evening, and good luck. PF>

Questions about Bi-Color Angels
Hi Bob,
<<JasonC here, Bob is away diving>>
Had a quick question: I have a 25 Gallon mini reef, that's been going for over a year, and I just picked up a Bicolor Angel, I was wondering if this fish might be too big for my tank, or do you think it would be fine?
Thanks! David
<<well, I suppose the simple answer is yes - these can grow to 6" and that's a pretty big fish for a 25. Additionally, angels require top water quality and as such, a 25 is of a size small enough to have accidental/drastic changes that could do-in your angel. Do read up, if you haven't already on Bob's thoughts on the Dwarf angels: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/centropy.htm - Cheers, J -- >>

More on the Bi-Color
So, yes I should return it?
<<uhh, or plan to upgrade to a larger tank in the near future, sure>>
sorry, got a little confused, I asked a 2 part question, 
<<looked for the second part in your earlier email - didn't see it, now you're confusing me...>>
 I think that might be too big, 
<<the bicolor, you mean?>> 
I had a pigmy angel for about a year, and he just died, I thought this guy might be a little big. 
<<perhaps... did you check out that URL? Research before buying, is best way to go for you and your marines.>> 
I just added some live sand an wanted to get a new fish in while my Skunk Back Pseudochromis was trying to figure out where it was, its been a bit territorial, and mean to new fish!, So I think I'll bring this guy back tomorrow. 
<<probably best>>
David
<<Cheers, J -- >>

...and More on the Bi-Color
Ok, I just returned the Bi-Color, I hate when I get too impulsive with fish purchasing... 
<<yeah, impulsive fish-buying often turns out wrong, even with the best of intentions>> 
Anyway, so these guys will order me what ever I want, I've had a Pigmy angel, and while I like it a lot, I'd love to try something different... which small dwarf angel would you suggest? how are these rusty dwarfs? any suggestions?
<<it's all laid out at http://www.wetwebmedia.com/centropy.htm and as a quick aside - Bob's rating system is 1/2/3 - good/medium/poor. Check that page.>>
thanks! DAVE
<<you are quite welcome, cheers. J -- >>

Bicolor Angelfish
Got A Bicolor Angel fish. Have now (after buying it) read that they are difficult to keep and especially to get them to eat.
<Are you pulling Bob the Fishman's fins here? Why would you do such a thing?>
Have you ever owned a bicolor angel and if so what did you feed it....
<Used to collect this species in the Philippines in the sixties... "Oriole Angels" used to be a sturdy species...>
I have been offering flake and frozen brine... he seems to ignore the flakes entirely and nibbles on the brine (doesn't eat to much maybe one or two)... he mostly just munches on the live rock all day and I'm not sure how much algae I have on them that's left. I only have like 9-10 pounds of live rock.
<Do yourself and your livestock a favor, study what it takes for simple husbandry IN ADVANCE of purchasing life. Do at least read over the materials archived on our site: www.WetWebMedia.com ahead of writing. Bob Fenner>

Bicolor Angelfish, parable about folks not studying history repeating mistakes...
So should I take him back? or try different food? What sort of dwarf angel would you recommend (flame, coral beauty, etc..) for a small reef tank?
<You should study, read where you've been sent to repeatedly: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ Go there, use the many detailed experiences of others to help yourself. Bob Fenner>

Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel
I came home today, to find my Bicolor Angel lying on its side at the bottom of my QT tank... It looked like he had some black spots around the gills. He had been swimming and feeding yesterday. There were no signs of infection or parasites. He was not eating much, but he was eating. The damsel that lives in this tank is healthy.
<hmmm... not symptomatic of anything specifically pathogenic but this species is notoriously still drug caught. If you bought it for under $30 in most big cities in the US then it is a strong candidate for drug poisoning. Quality hand-caught Bicolor's from Fiji and elsewhere are significantly more expensive than the cheap Jakarta and Philippine specimens. >
I did a water test last night. Ammonia and Nitrite 0.. PH 8.3... Nitrate 60 - 80 ppm. I changed 2 gallons out of this 10 gallon tank while he was getting the FW dip.
I scooped him out and gave him a 6 - 7 minute FW dip. I returned him to the QT.. He not lying on his side yet. What should I do? Continue FW Dips? 
<hold off on the dips unless you see a specific indication of parasites (scratching, spots, sloughing possibly)>
I looked closer, and his pectoral fins have a slight dusting of white spots.. Great!!! Ich!! I guess, I need to use Formalin II, along with the FW Dips.
<Ok...fair enough... I agree <smile>. That will be $50 for the service call...hehe>
Please let me know if there is anything else I should be doing...
<singing in the rain is always delightful if it is warm enough outside>
Thanks, Glenn
<kindly, Anthony>

Re: Help!!! Sick Bicolor Angel
Hi Anthony,
Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my Bicolor Angel did not improve. He became more lethargic. His respiration was very high. I was sure he would not survive the night, so I decided euthanasia was the only humane thing to do.. I froze him..
<alas... I am sorry to hear about it>
He had been in my tank for almost two weeks.. He appeared healthy. Unfortunately, he only cost me $25, so I guess he suffered cyanide poisoning.. 
<it is certainly a strong possibility. Take a look at the gill color as well... should be richly red/pink. If pale pink in color... another indication of an unsound collecting technique>
That will be the last Bicolor I buy. 
<or let it serve as a reminder that many such "difficult" fish are difficult because of prevalent collecting or shipping practices. You may just need to research and buy from a different source. Case in point... common Regal Angels are all but "impossible" to keep alive. But aquarists have found that the race called "orange throat" Regals from the Maldives and Red Sea are quite able to live in captivity. Unfortunately, they are much more expensive and generally need to be special ordered. Many other such examples (Moorish Idols from Hawaii, Coral Beauties from Fiji (mostly purple body... not orange dominant)). Indeed, many subtleties to research or look out for> 
Not to mention from now on, I'll research ya'lls site before buying any new fish.. Thanks Again, Glenn
<excellent... information is power as they say. Anthony>

Dwarf Angel in a dwarf system... big problems?
Hello,
<Hi there>
Quick question for your Q&A board-
I have recently purchased a Bi-colored angel- I watched him eat in the store before purchasing. I brought him home and he ate the day I put him in the tank and the 2 days following that- He was eating Krill, bring shrimp and Caulerpa (plants).
A few days later I tested the water (which was fine) and added a Royal Gramma. Since then the Angel has not eaten- He picks the rocks a little but stays hidden- His color is good and he doesn't look sick but he hides often and won't eat. The Royal Gramma doesn't seem to bother anyone in the tank so I don't think that it is a Quarrel.
<Might be bothered just the same>
Since then I have tried smashing Angel food (formula???) into the cracks in the rocks near his hide out but he won't come out and look at me, much less eat in front of me-
Any suggestions? Could it be grazing enough to stay full?
<I hope so... see below>
One more thing- was it a mistake to add a Bi-colored angel to a 30Gl reef tank in the long run?
<Yes. Too small a space to culture enough food on live rock etc... I would trade this fish in for something smaller. Perhaps one of the dwarf-dwarf Angels of the tropical West Atlantic... Centropyge argi, C. aurantonotus... Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/fishes/angels/Centropyge/index.htm and the linked FAQs files therein. Bob Fenner>
Thanks, Hank

Bicolor Angel Not Eating
Hi MacL, <Hi Wid>
Thanks for the reply, I was anxious about it as I was lurking around WWM
site... and your mail pop up :-) <I'm sorry its taken so long to get back to you again, lets talk about appraisals, and other boring not fish stuff!> For maintaining the biological filtration I'd probably be continuing feeding the shrimps, star, and corals in there, may be a bit heavier than usual. <Sounds great> I have one more problem here, hope that you bear with me.
The 1.2" bicolour angel mentioned is actually a new purchase. Perhaps it is not so wise to purchase such a young specimen. It seems alright but I have never seen it eat any flakes (2 types) that I fed, even after soaking in garlic. I left 2" square kelp in the tank and hoping that it will nibble on it but have no luck, even soaked it in garlic too. <I'd suggest live brine soaked in Selcon or Zoë. If you can find it live Mysis.> However this little guy is active and keeps nibbling on some plastic piping that I put in there. But I don't know how long can this little guy last in a bare tank which is so clean. It is the 3rd day since I've got it. (I know might a bit early to worry, but I really don't want to ruin such an apparently healthy specimen) <Notorious for not being good eaters, try some live foods and get him started eating, then switch.>
My questions are:
1. Should I put a piece of live rock from my main tank which might harbor some ich for it to nibble on? And another problem is I am dosing ParaGuard as a preventive measure in the quarantine tank and am afraid that live rock may not be good. <I would buy a piece of fresh before I took that chance.>
2. Can I use some warm white fluorescent to encourage some algae in my quarantine tank for it to feed on?  At the moment I am using a single 18W NO daylight tube. <6500 spectrum is daylight, easy to find at hardware stores.>
I might try fresh seafood today, but it is not its main diet. Or may be get some Nori. <Always worth a try.>
Thanks again for your wonderful work that serves us so well in time of need:)
Wid
<Don't give up Wid, try the live foods and the Nori and hopefully you'll get her eating. MacL.>

Bi-color angel
I recently purchased a bi-color angel about 2.5 weeks ago. It's a 29 gallon with some small pieces of live rock in it and many other rocks and decorations. I also have a yellow tang and a small percula clown in it with a hermit crab. The others are eating just fine but the bi-color will not eat anything but the live rock. I have been feeding them formula one, angel formula, formula two, frozen brine, and even live brine and the others love
it, but the angel just wont eat. he looks pale on his blue side and I'm very concerned about his health. what should I do about this? I don't want him to die on me because he won't eat. PLEASE HELP!!!!
<I share your concern re this dwarf angelfish species (Centropyge bicolor). Currently ffexpress is building out a facility, but up to this point has been more of a selection service, combing the LA wholesalers for the best of what's available... and the wholesalers by and large do not feed their livestock. Your angel will probably start eating on its own, or is getting enough nutriment from the live rock. You might try soaking some live foods (of fresh or marine origin) in a vitamin prep. (some folks use Selcon, others liquid baby vitamins...) This should do the trick. Bob Fenner>

Feeding Dwarf Angels
If you don't mind, can you tell me how do I feed a bicolor angel? I bought it 5 days ago and don't want to eat anything. Thank you
<<Have you tried any live food items? Hopefully you do have live rock in with it... as it does feed on a great deal of filamentous algae and will nibble at different sorts of creatures found in and on the rock. Bob Fenner>>

My bicolor angelfish
Hello Mr. Fenner!
I've written to you several times in the past (I'm the "dog bone in the fish tank" lady). Recently, I added two false percula clownfish, a bi-color angel, and a cleaner shrimp to my tank. Everyone seemed to be doing well, and still is, except for the angelfish. He seemed very healthy, inquisitive about the tank, non-stressed, and gently swimming to and fro, but would not eat any of the food that I put in the tank. I tried, from various
recommendations: bloodworms, brine shrimp, macro-algae sheets and flake-food. He wouldn't touch any of it. The only thing that he would pick at was some of the brown algae in my tank, but there's not much of that.
Unfortunately, after 5 days in the tank, I came home last night to find him stuck to a powerhead basket.
<Yowzah, very sorry to hear/read>
My question is, are these particularly difficult angels to keep? 
<Hmm, yes... Centropyge bicolor, aka the Oriole (Dwarf) Angel, used to be a very hardy species for the most part... and can still be... coming from certain localities... but most all specimens of this species do languish in some manner as you've described... I would try a generally hardier species next time. Please see our site re the genus here: www.WetWebMedia.com and endeavor to find, pay for specimens from better source locations, as listed>
If not, what did I do wrong? The water quality is excellent by all of my tests, the temperature is steady 78F, and none of the other fish are aggressive. Also, all of the other fish in the tank are very healthy. The clownfish are doing well, and the shrimp has already molted once.
I read various reviews on these fish, some saying that they are easy, others difficult, and yet others in between. I'd like to replace him, but if I should stay away from the bi-colors, then I'll get something else.
<Something else>
Any help that you could give would be greatly appreciated.
Deborah H. Colella
<Bob Fenner>

Well, I think problem is something else.. (Sick Fish... knowledge value...)
Well, as I told you last Thursday, my lionfish died. My angelfish (Bicolor Angelfish) seemed alright. I got a coral beauty on Sunday.
<Hmm... so soon... and two Centropyge in how large a system?...>
Later in the day however, I noticed a small grey sore-looking mark on his back, right in front of the dorsal fin, and above the eyes. Well, its day two now, and it's grown a lot. This white-looking material has spread. I looked it up, and its supposed to be "fungus" or a bacteria.
<Supposed to be?...>
Anyways, I got Saltwater Maracyn to hopefully cure whatever was inside the tank affecting the coral beauty. Well, it turns out that body-fungus, which is what I suspect my coral beauty has, also has symptoms of "body scratching" which I believe I told you my lionfish did, and also cloudiness of the eyes (another thing my lionfish had).
Unfortunately, I wish I could of treated the tank when I first noticed the lionfish acting odd. Also, my Bi-Color angel fish is "scratching" himself along the coral, and the bottom of the tank.
<Uh, oh...>
I read that low water quality can affect fungus too.. helping it grow. 
<Yes, well put>
I have 0 nitrites, 0 ammonia.. as for PH however, I'm a little confused. Normal range is between 8.1-8.4 I have 3 saltwater PH test kits. One said my PH is 7.4, another said it was 8.3, and the last said 9.0!
<Have someone with a working kit test your water... and test your kits against known pH samples... junk the bad ones... look to the brands mentioned on the piece on pH, test kits and FAQs on the www.WetWebMedia.com site>
Well, I'm going with the one that said 7.4 since that's the 'newest' one I got, and it tests for nitrites, ammonia, and nitrates.
Well, if my water is really 7.4, I never knew, since my other two PH kits told me different, so I added some buffer to the tank to raise the ph
<See above... Don't "go with" a given kit because of its age...>
I hear that having crushed coral as a bottom substrate is bad for a saltwater tank, since it's a refuge for fungus to grow. Well, I have roughly 3 inches of crushed coral on the bottom of my entire tank.
<What? No... where are you getting this mythinformation?>
Basically, I'm hoping the Maracyn can cure whatever is affecting my fish, but I now know (I think anyways) that the lionfish most likely died to whatever is affecting my only two fish right now. Any suggestions you have to help keep a "fungus-clean" tank? I feel like I've done a lot, but maybe something I'm missing.
<There is no such thing as a "fungus-free system"... only ones that are more/less optimized to host a minimum of decomposing organisms/populations... You need to find the real cause/s of the apparent problems here... It is entirely likely that the Coral Beauty Angels appearance is due to "stress" in general (shipping, handling...), and little to no value in treating the system with Minocycline (MarII)... Do read over the archives of some of the listservs on the net re disease, environment...>
So I'm treating the tank right now, and I plan to do a 30% water change in 3 days when the Maracyn treatment is over with.
<The water change will definitely help... as might "environmental manipulation"... lowering spg, raising temp... see the WWM sites "Disease" sections under the Marine area...>
And, I'm also removing the crushed coral as a bottom, and putting in normal sand. Any suggestions you have would greatly be appreciated.
<What is... "normal" sand? Please read over the "Marine Substrates" area and FAQs on the WWM site as well... I would NOT remove the current substrate while your livestock are having problems... Do you have a sophisticated marine aquarist friend who can come over, look over your shoulder and check your system, maintenance protocol out? Bob Fenner>

Bicolor Angel eats Aiptasia!
I will swear on a stack of bibles, I am not lying! My bi-color angelfish is munching on a rock full of glass anemones (Aiptasia), even as we speak. I've never heard or read anything to support this, that's why I'm e-mailing this to you. Have you ever heard or seen this?
We kind of thought something was strange because this is the only salt tank in the house that does not have Aiptasia in it, now I think I know why.
Let us know what you think! 
<Lorenzo Gonzalez here responding for Bob, who is around the world in 14 days, and asked me to keep his many internet friends appeased...
To your Aiptasia eating angel, I say:
LUCKY YOU! TREAT THAT FISH LIKE A KING! (or queen, as the case may be) You could rent that fish out at the local reefkeepers meeting!
;-) -Lorenzo>

Nitrates 8/28/06
Hi Bob,
<Hi Aaron, Leslie filling in for Bob this evening>
You're a great help to me and my fish.
<Glad to hear and will pass it on.>
I have a 55 gallon marine, Seaclone 150, Emperor 400, 18 watt Turbo Twist UV, 50 lbs. live rock, with 1 small Saddleback Clownfish, and 1 small Blue Tang, a couple small snails, and crabs. I am having trouble keeping my nitrates down below 10 ppm.
<10 ppm is not a problem.>
I do 10 gallon water changes every two weeks.  I just put the Tang in about 4 weeks ago, and I have a small bicolor angel that I have in my QT, that I am wanting to add but I don't want to if my nitrates are to high.
<They are not to high>
I know <30 ppm is acceptable but I don't want to kill my fish by adding another.
<Should not be a problem.>
Should I get some kind of nitrate remover media for my emperor, or do you have any other suggestions.
<No, would not recommend any of those. Small frequent water changes, some additional live rock, live sand if you do not have any and some macro algae should help. Please do have a look at the following article and FAQs
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
Thank You, Aaron
<Your most welcome, HTH, Leslie>