Refugium Overflow 3/11/09
Hello there, and thank you very much for your fast reply.
<Welcome.>
I have since received my refugium and am in the process of getting all the stuff to set it up. In your reply you recommended 2 overflow boxes. I am looking at the CPR overflow boxes because those have the air pump to hook up should the power fail. If I hook up two would you suggest the smallest model (which would be the CPR cs50 overflow box) it is rated for tanks up to 60g and a flow rate of 300 gph, or would you go with 2 cs90's rated at 600 gph for a 125 gallon tank?
<In all honesty just throw the ratings out the window…both of these overflows use a single 1” bulkhead for draining. I have actually flow tested both, many times, and I assure you that a little over 300 gph is what they both flow! See http://www.wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm>
Also I was thinking if I am going to run two of these would you suggest running one of them into the skimmer section of the refugium and the other into the refugium itself, both with T's on them to adjust flow rate?
<That can work fine.>
Last but not least what pump and size would you recommend? I was looking at the Maxi-Jet 1800 Utility Pump 474 gph, or maybe the Maxi-Jet 3000 Utility Pump 775 gph. I would think the smaller one would be ok since the refugium doesn't require too much flow through it and the skimmer probably wouldn't make that much flow either but maybe the bigger one with a T on it to slow the flow down? I was mostly thinking of the smaller one would make less noise and less heat.
<Go with the smaller one…it will put your flow below 300 gph. It is the point, this way you have true redundancy with your overflows. If on fails the other can handle the flow.>
I need a submersible one if you have any better suggestions and any extra input would help. The refugium will be about 4 ft. from the top of my display tank. One more question. The way the refugium is configured is first compartment is for the skimmer, next is the refugium, last is the return. Can I overflow the skimmer water into the refugium then into the return?
<Oh yes.>
I realize its best to bring "raw" water into the refugium, and I planned to do this either with a T from the overflows, or running one overflow directly (as stated above) but letting the skimmer overflow mix with the raw water is that ok or should I attach a pump from the skimmer and run that water directly to the return section?
<Na, just let it overflow into the next chamber.>
This is all so new to me and I have done lots of reading. Also is there a good skimmer for this system you could point me to? I was considering the Aqua-C urchin rated for tanks 22g-75g.
<Is my first choice, the “go to” skimmer on systems such as this!>
Thank you again for this wonderful resource you all provide us Noobs! =)
<Welcome again, have fun, Scott V.>

Re: Refugiums, pb et al.  3/12/09
I'm really very sorry to keep pestering you, but all your info is so great and seems so spot on I can't help it and hopefully this will be the last time for a while, as I know you have many other people with questions. I read the article you linked and it makes a lot of sense. So any of the CPR overflow boxes with one 1" output will flow the same.
<Sadly pretty much the case.>
Would you then suggest I buy two of the overflow boxes with two 1" outputs?
<For the flow you are talking about running through the overflow you will be fine with the models we talked about. Either will be able to handle the flow should one fail.>
That would seem like a bit too much flow. Also if the Aqua C urchin comes with the maxi-jet power head that means the powerhead puts out 295gph, is that what the skimmer will clean and need to flow through it?
<Hmmm, no. The MJ is rated for 295, but will actually flow much less than this through the skimmer.>
If so, and I'm running 2 Overflow boxes and each one is around 300gph like you stated would they both be pretty much all the way open with the gate valve one going to the skimmer section and one to the refugium section. If one were to fail that would lower the flow rate from 600 gph to 300 gph I should still be ok correct? Or does a protein skimmer not really work that way?
<All that matters as far as the overflow is the amount of water pumped to the tank, you will be under 300 gph with the pumps we discussed before.>
Also do you think it’s worth putting maybe a second pump in the system someplace with a float switch just incase my return pump were to fail?
<No, I would not mess with that. It is not a bad idea to have an extra pump on hand though should one fail or need to be cleaned.>
I am looking for as close to a very redundant system as possible. I really don't want my fish and other critters to die because I could have prevented something, that wouldn't be very fair to them. With the size of the actual refugium is (I haven't calculated the exact gallons yet) but its 12.5X9.5 and height is somewhere around 8 or 10 inches. I don’t think it would require a lot of "extra" flow outside of the 295gph the skimmer might use. Also is there a "better" pump? I saw Maxi-jet recommended a few places in your articles, but would an Eheim or something be more reliable in your opinion?
<The Eheims are top of the line, but the MJ is a fine pump for this application.>
Also if I wanted to run carbon in the system would you suggest using a Fluval canister filter or something like that?
<If you have one…do realize these need to be frequently cleaned to prevent detritus buildup and excess nitrate. Even if you run them without mechanical filtration this can still happen. >
I have seen where people put carbon pads in the refugiums or in the skimmer sections.
<The way to do it IMO.>
Can you just lay the bags in there or do you need to make an area where the water flows "through" the carbon?
<You are going to want to be sure the water actually passes through.>
Anything else you might suggest would be appreciated as well. Thanks again for your wonderful site and the books you guys write. They have both been an incredible resource.
<Welcome and thank you! Scott V.>

System water flow... overall circ. and refugiums      2/22/09
Dear Crew:
<Ben>
It is my intention to create a high flow system with sump and refugium.
Having read quite a few postings on DSB's, sumps and refugiums I have gleaned what seems to be contradictory advice. This may be due to my ignorance (as opposed to stupidity) of a specific contextual frame I do not understand, ergo I write. I have several questions please.
<Ok>
1) Are high flow rates recommended to maximize biological processes, to make the creatures feel more at home or both?
<Can be a combination of these ends... though it should be mentioned that there is a need to define terms like "high", and that there are
circumstances, processes, organisms that prefer "lower" rates of flow>
If it is primarily the former then it would be of little use to utilize a additional pump and plumbing circuit for the sole purpose of water movement in the tank?
<Mmm, w/in relative terms, settings, there are exceedingly few systems that are over-circulated>
2) I intend to use a 6" DSB in the tank, sump and refugium. The goal is de nitrification and the propagation and maintenance of a healthy population of sand dwelling critters. Some articles/comments have suggested refugiums should have a slow rate of water flow while others suggest a fast rate.
<Depends on a few factors... for the refugium sake itself... 5-10 times turnover is about ideal... but there are often other uses that call for more turns>
Both slow and fast flow rates were suggested as optimal for de nitrification!?
<Actually... flow rate in the water surrounding substrates where denitrification occurs are of little influence>
Is the fast rate just for the main tank and sump?
<Mainly, in most cases, yes>
Should the flow rate to the refugium be slowed or not?
<Should be, yes>
Do you have a suggested rate or range of flow rates for the refugium?
<Yes... 5-10 times vol./hr.>
Gross tank volumes planned are 150 for the main tank, 50 for the sump and 50 for the refugium. I have yet to calculate probable net water volume but a good guess would be about 145 to 175 of actual water. I plan to turn that over somewhere between 15 to 20 times per hour.
<Okay>
3) I have read some advertisements/articles re: the New Marine Series Marineland tanks and feel their proportions of dimensions offer several advantages.
<They do indeed. These are (surprisingly to many) well-thought out units>
They rate their overflow boxes (2) at 700gph each which in ideal circumstances would give me only 1500gph return capacity or about 8.5 turns of the tank per hour. Perhaps I should be thinking of a DIY tank or have someone make one already drilled for my flow rate goals?
<This is the rule rather than exception unfortunately. I would "supplement" the drilled options here... by either drilling more holes or adding an over the back "closed loop circulation" system>
Except for perhaps the feed to the refugium I would like to use 2" plumbing throughout the system in conjunction with a very high GPH pump.
<Okay>
Thank You
Benjamin
<Welcome; thank you for sharing.... Do feel free to chat further... am going to place your query in ScottV's in-folder for his resp. individually.
Bob Fenner>
<<Hi Ben, I do believe these use the standard joke of a throughput size, 1" for the overflow drains like most pre manufactured "reef ready" tanks...you will in reality  only see 300 gph per. As Bob stated, you will want to add more one way or another...it does not sound like you actually have the tank in hand yet, now is the time to get one with larger throughputs! Either custom from the manufacturer or do consider drilling it yourself. Most any manufacturer will drill your holes larger from the factory for an up charge. If you are at all mechanically inclined or have somebody you trust who is, drilling the glass yourself is very easy/straightforward, really kind of fun and darn cheap! A few links for you drilling:
http://reefercentral.com/Videos.html
why 1" overflow throughputs stink:
http://wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm
I hope this helps out, feel free to write back with any questions. ScottV>>

20g nano system refugium equipment  2/3/09
To whom it may concern:
After reading your website fantastic article about system requirements on a nano system, I recently started one of my own. It has been running for 6 month now and everything seem to be working fine. I have a Remora skimmer, 20 pounds of live rock, a air pump, a compact florescence light with 6000k and 10000k tubes and a power head for water flow. I have a small crown fish, a quadcolor anemone, a green spotted puffer, a small snowflake eel
<Needs more room than this... and may well have trouble/contact with the Bubble Tip Anemone here>
and a turbo snail. I know the tank is way too small for the eel and the puffer once they got bigger, I will get a bigger system or surrender them to a fish store if necessary. I do a biweekly 20% water change, but I still have a problem with high nutrient because of all the microalgae and glass anemone on the live rock and on the glass.
<Ah yes...>
I want to start running a 10g refugium.
<An excellent addition!>
I am ready to purchase all the necessary equipment, but I can't figure out all the equipments that I need. How can I make sure I don't get too much water from the tank to the refugium before it overflow?
<A matter of calculating where the overflow will drain water down to (and adjustment)... the pump capacity (and possibly adjustment with a valve on the discharge end)... and measure to not overfill the transit sump (the refugium) when all is up and running (with the power turned on/off)... Do you understand this?>
How can I make sure the water pump is pumping out the same rate of water as the tank is flowing in to it?
<Again... the factors above.>
Can you make a list of all the things I need to buy?
<By careful reading... Either the first chapters of Anthony Calfo and I's Reef Invertebrate book... or on the Net... These areas: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
the second tray down... and/or good help pages on the Web: Melev's Reef, OzReef.org...>
I have read your web page about refugium and all the benefit from it. I can't wait to start mine. Thanks a million in advance for your help. I am sure my fishs will appreciate it as well.
<I agree... do read, take good notes... and write back with specific questions you have. Bob Fenner>

What is the maximum current (ft/min) in a refugium? – 10/10/08
To the crew:
Thank you for your many FAQ's which have been most helpful.
<Welcome>
I am now seeking a quantitative answer to the question; what is the maximum current in ft/min through a refugium. Posting to the BB has not resulted in an answer so I turn to the Crew for guidance. The answer could also be
couched in terms of gph if the dimensions of the refugium are given or in volume turns per hour. Any definitive information is appreciated.
Tomg3reef
<As general statements go, "not so much flow" such that whatever life, substrate et al. components are tossed about too much really... Likely 5-10 f/min... I give a rule of thumb to folks of oh so many volumes per hour... not many, usually... but with the use of baffles, perhaps subverting most of flow around or past the "bio area" itself, rates can be quite high. Bob Fenner>

Sump/Refugium Flow Rate Question 10/4/08
I am in the process of setting up a 300 gal. tank with a separate three compartment sump/refugium.  I am still in the planning stages (actually, I only have the tank so far) and have read a lot about the benefits of a refugium and DSB. 
<Many, definitely worth doing.>
My plan is to build a 55 gal  baffled refugium (L 60” x  H 18” x W18” with ~12” high baffles) with the middle 24” being the refugium with a 5” DSB.  Since the tank has duel overflows/returns, I am planning to run two  Iwaki MD40RLXT pumps for the return. 
<Are these the typical prebuilt overflows? If so do read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ovrflowboxfaq4.htm and the linked files. The industry’s “reef ready” tanks are rather disappointing in overflow capabilities for the most part.>
These pumps are rate at 1,200 gph which, I assume, will translate to about 2,000 gph after normal power loss due to the trip to the tank.  My question is if this rate of flow will be too much for a refugium in which I hope to keep some pods, macroalgae, cleaners etc? 
<No, this will be fine for this size and volume. The livestock can handle it.>
If so, do you have any thoughts on a better way to do this?
<You could run your skimmer and refugium compartments on opposite ends, with each overflowing into a middle pump return compartment. This will allow the refugium to see only half the flow, although I would not worry too much about this criteria. The main advantage to this configuration is that it allows you to increase the water level (and volume) in the refugium area. The downside is a bit tougher plumbing with two external return pumps.>
Thanks,
Michael
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Return Pump vs. Powerheads for system flow 8/22/08
Hey Guys,
<Larry>
I moved last year and had to sell my 125G reef tank (sad day for me). I have been in serious withdrawal ever since. My beautiful wife surprised me on my 40th birthday by purchasing a new 120G (48" x 24") aquarium and stand to re-kindle my obsession.
<I’ll bet!>
The tank is an AGA with dual Megaflow overflows. I see all over the FAQ's that the realistic flow rate through the two 1" bulkheads will only get me half of the published rating of 2x600GPH. Obviously, that total flow rate is insufficient for a 120G reef tank.
<Yes, sad that the holes are not simply larger.>
The overflows will feed a 30G DIY sump located in the furnace room behind the wall. The sump will house a skimmer and heaters. I plan on eventually adding a separate refugium above the sump with water pumped up from the sump and overflowing back into the sump.
<Consider running an overflow line from the tank to the refugium, then overflow into the sump. This will save you the use of one pump.>
Ignoring overall system flow for the moment, will a properly sized return pump (500-600GPH after head loss) be sufficient to support the skimmer and a refugium?
<To support the tank, yes. You will need to add supplemental flow as you mention below. The problem with this overflow setup is it leaves you no margin for safety. Running the lines at capacity means water on the floor if a line gets even partially blocked. If you are at all comfortable with DIY, consider drilling the tank for larger throughputs. You can drill the rear pane of glass inside the existing boxes, substantially increasing your flow capacity while keeping the tank looking the same.>
I am considering using a number of Koralia powerheads to get the overall water movement in the tank up to a reasonable level. I like the idea of the diffused flow generated by these style powerheads vs. strong jets from the return lines. Is there a downside to doing this vs. increasing the flow through the sump?
<Only aesthetics. There are many upsides though. Less power use, better flow characteristics, usually quieter, etc. >
I've read various suggestions for increasing flow, including using the 3/4" return line bulkheads as additional overflows, or even drilling more or larger overflows. I'd like to avoid doing these if possible.
<Okay.>
Also, is there any benefit to draining the 1" bulkheads into larger PVC pipes(1.5")? I know it won't increase the max flow rate but will it help with noise?
<Not really, any many cases doing this will increase the noise with the water beating around inside the larger pipe. Most noise associated with these overflows comes from siphoning issues/running past capacity.>
I plan on running 2 separate lines down to the sump. If I can stick with 1" lines, the holes through the wall will be a little smaller.
<1” will be fine.>
I am excited about getting the tank up and running, but I don't want to make any short-sighted decisions that will impact things later on. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Larry
<Welcome, congratulations on the new setup, Scott V.>

Refugium Overflow/Plumbing 8/11/08
Good afternoon Crew,
<Hello>
I just have a couple questions about a refugium I'd like to set up. My tank is a 20 gallon long variety with 1 inch of the Aragamax sand. I have about 15-20lbs of live rock, 80 watts of PC and regular Fl. lighting. There's 2 Black and White Clown Fish and a Randall's Shrimp Goby. I do have a few smaller moderate light requiring corals and a number of inverts. I'd like to add a 10 gallon refugium with Macro algae and additional live rock for the purposes of: increased stability, better pH buffering, more biological filtration, and less temp/chemical/etc. fluctuation. I don't really need to grow pods or anything like that, although I wouldn't mind if they grew. The only thing I'll be adding is more corals and inverts. No fish.
Here's my question: I do have everything (hardware, at least) except for a way to get the water from the main display tank to the 'fuge. I'd like to keep the 10 gallon tank directly behind my display if at all possible. As for my design, I'll have the first section keep the skimmer (Tunze DOC Nano in tank variety) and will be baffled so it will keep the water at a steady level. The second section will have the sand, rock, and macroalgae, while the third will keep a return pump. (Probably a Maxi Jet 600 or 900). I'd like to keep an Aqua-Clear HOB filter to keep carbon and poly-filter on the back as well. My question is this:
I don't think a standard overflow would work (I don't have a drilled tank and I'm afraid the over-the-top overflows will eventually fail.)
<A hang on overflow will not work at all if one tank is directly behind the other and close to the same height. These require a drop between tanks by their design. When they are used, more than one for redundancy (even with a drilled overflow) is a good idea.>
It's too risky for me. Do you have any suggestions for this? Also, further complicating things, I'd like to keep the fuge directly behind the 20 gallon tank. Any suggestions?
<If you wish to keep it directly behind, on the same platform, you will have to drill the 20. The height difference between the tanks does not allow enough space for a hang on the back overflow. Do NOT pump back and forth between the tanks, trying to balance the flow without an overflow, you will have water on the floor in short order.>
I know I'll have to keep reading to see if I can get more answers, but any help will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks a TON! (or a Tunze?)
Eric
<Welcome, Scott V.>

Re: Refugium Overflow/Plumbing 8/11/08
Thank you Scott.
<Welcome Eric.>
I have since read a bit more about my setup (existing and proposed) and believe I could raise the refuge higher than the 20 gallon, and I could have the overflow section on the 10 gallon (would that require drilling?.. I would think so but I definitely can drill that one).
<Drilling would be the best route.>
Meanwhile, I could put the pump in the main 20 gallon display and pump that water up to the 10 gallon refuge.. The refuge doesn't have to be directly behind it.
I definitely won't be utilizing 2 pumps, that's for sure.
<Good.>
I've heard/read too many horror stories and it doesn't make logistical sense. I've been reading a lot more about this setup and about my lighting, and I think I'll be all right, but maybe you can help clarify: Would the PC and NO flour. (65 watt PC bulb and 15 watt 10,000K NO bulb) lighting be enough for a Plerogyra sinuosa and a Euphyllia ancora?
<It can be in such a shallow tank, ideally with most in the daylight spectrum.>
My tank is only about 10-12 inches top to bottom and the light fixtures are almost directly on the glass top.. Those 2 LPS would be about 6-8 inches from the actual light.
<Will be fine.>
Thanks a lot, I really appreciate all the help everyone on the team has provided!
<Welcome.>
Eric
<Scott V.>

Refugium water movement 6/27/08
Hello everyone,
<Hello!>
I have a 55G main tank and recently added a 15G refugium (total size counting outflow and inflow area), the return to the main tank is done
by a 1200 maxi jet. If i put a 400 MaxiJet in the refugium to increase the water movement, the pods will get killed by the propeller?
<Quite possibly. Certainly could cause some unwanted elimination of invertebrate macrofauna>
Will the refugium be better or not with the MaxiJet 400 in it?
<If the flow is especially prosaic, it could help- especially if you screen the intake to keep the invertebrate life out. On the other hand, relatively slow flow through macroalgae will enhance nutrient export and copepod culture>
Thanks for your help.
<No trouble>
Gerardo
<Benjamin>

Plumbing a Refugium 6/10/08
Hello,
<Art>
I have a 20 gallon long glass aquarium that sits on a stand next to but lower than my main tank, and higher than my wet/dry filter. I've been told
that it is best to feed the refugium directly from my main tank, and then let the water drain back into my wet/dry.
<The preferred method, ideally draining into the return area of your wet/dry.>
In order to accomplish this I was thinking of using two overflow boxes to move the water through the refugium.
One on the main tank to deliver water to the refugium and one on the refugium to return water to my wet/dry sump.
<Yes, you will need two overflows for this.>
Then the pump in my wet/dry to return water to my main tank. First, does this sound like a better way of
moving water than using a powerhead?
<Yes, using a powerhead will require balancing the flow, something that will fail in short order. Let gravity do the work!>
Second, if I use overflow boxes would I be able to control the amount of flow going through the refugium?
<Yes, tee the overflow above the refugium and run one section to your sump and another to the refugium. You can put a ball valve on one leg to control the flow to one or the other. Do not use a valve on both, this is a recipe for a wet floor!>
Finally, I know the overflow boxes must be capable of moving more water than my return pump or I could end up flooding my sump.
<You will flood your floor.>
My return pump is rated for 600 gph and has a 36" head at this time. I'm trying to determine if 300gph overflow boxes would be sufficient?
<If your pump is rated for 600 at 0’ then you should be fine with a 300 gph box once head height and plumbing are accounted for. If you need to you can restrict the pump output if needed to lower the flow. But, bigger is better with overflows, if you get overflows that can handle the full 600 gph you will have some safety margin. Do note that many hang on the back overflows use a single 1” bulkhead and claim 600 gph. Plan on just a bit more than 300 gph with these in the real world.>
Thanks in advance for your help. I spend a lot of
time researching here.
Art
<Welcome, keep reading, it is fun! Good luck, Scott V.>
 

Re9: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Thank you Scott for your time. <Welcome John, I have combined your three emails into one for simplicity.> Of coarse I have some other questions. <OK> What steps should I take when I am going to start to fill the tank? Should I start to fill main tank till the water gets to the return pump. <Yes, above the return pump.> Then what? <Start the pump if all the plumbing is done!> Or what do you recommend? What are the chances of the main tank overflowing, <Very little (there is always a chance) if your return is sized appropriately.> what’s the best way to prevent this? <Appropriate flow for the drains.> The sump I’m not to worried about because it will be located in the garage. <You still don’t want to lose water!> I was thinking of maybe using one of the 3/4"in the MegaFlows, maybe putting a 1"1/2 PVC pipe just below the tank rim, through wall to outside just incase the water rose it would just drain out of main tank. But then I’m loosing a drain. What do you think? <This would amount to very little. If you outrun the other drains one ¾” emergency drain will amount to very little safety margin.> Can I wait a couple of months until I get a skimmer to start running tank ? <To start it at all? Yes. You can stock the tank without a skimmer, but I always advocate for the use of a skimmer, from the start.> Thanks again for your time with my set-up, if it wasn’t for you I wouldn’t even attempt this. <Welcome John, it sounds like it is all coming together.> Hey Scott, it’s John again. I am working on the plumbing under tank just wanted to know what you think. I’m using 4 "tees" 1"1/2" to 2", both the 1" and 3/4" drains are coming down from tank into the tees. <OK> My question is I have to go into wall to the immediate left of the outlet in the picture. I might have to put an elbow then out the wall. All the water will come down to left through wall into sump. Or should I divert the water from both over flows to middle then through wall, or is it ok the other way? <Whatever works to get the plumbing done. You will not lose much flow either way, you are well below the capacity of a 2” pipe.> The immediate right I put a clean out, and the valves are mostly for emergency shut down. <No reason for valves on a gravity fed line. Shutting off the return pump will shut down the lines.> I added some pictures for you to see. Of course they will be higher up, the main is a 2" as you recommended. The inlets to the "tees" are an 1"1/2. <Sounds fine.> Hey Scott, I just wanted to see what you think about the plumbing under my tank so far. This is the only possible way I can see doing it. I have both sides spilling into center, to go into wall. <This will work fine.> The center is about were its going to come out to drop into sump in garage. The black valve behind is the return, it’s 1" up to tank, then reduced to 3/4"along top. Then I have 3 outlets at top, left, center, right of tank. Each will have a 6" 1/2"flex pipe, with valves. I attached pictures, almost there, thanks. Hope it looks ok, John. <All looks fine, welcome, Scott V.> Thanks buddy, you are a great help. John <Welcome, enjoy finishing the setup, it is my favorite part! Scott V.>

Re10: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Hey Scott, I just had a question re to the bulk heads, the 1" under tank is a slip fitting, I put the 1" PVC into with PVC cement, it just seamed a little loose to me. Is this supposed to be the 1" PVC slips into this bulk head and that's it? <Cementing it in is fine and advisable.> Also the 3/4"under tank is a threaded fitting. The bulkhead I used 100%silicone on both sides of gasket, I used plumbers putty below tank , hand tightened nut .Is this ok? <Hand tight is fine. What did you use plumber’s putty on, the threads into the bulkhead? I would remove this and use silicone hear, much less likely to leak.> Or should I use a wrench. My next question is the stand I’m using is an AGA cherry wood cabinet. This was the cabinet for the 210 tank I had. I took the right side off the cabinet, was able to cut the floor of it and reattach the right panel, making it a 48" cabinet. I used corner brackets added vertical wood and horizontal pieces for further support. I then added more pieces along top inner rim. I put 1/2"ply-wood on top with middle support. I know its hard to say but does this sound all right? <It sounds like it will be fine.> I will take pictures to try to capture what I am saying. <Ok, sounds good. From you description it sounds as though you made the stand strong enough. Scott V.> Re10: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 3/29/08 Hey Scott, I just came down from putting kids to sleep. Anyway, I just removed the plumbers putty from the bulkheads, I won't be able to sleep knowing this may be a problem. <You will be better off for doing this.> You don't know how much I must thank you for all your help, with my tank set up and even my writing and grammar. I know its not perfect, but I've learned to take my time (ha ha). <Thank you John, it is always a pleasure to help where and when I can.> Well good night. Time to work on plumbing the sump/refugium. I'm waiting for my 3/8" glass to be cut. Then I could start on that. So I wont bother you for a while. Thanks a million Scott, talk to you soon.. John. <Very welcome, do let us know how it all comes out, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/4/08 Hey guys, I just had a question or two. I was wondering if it was ok to use clear 1"flex pipe to plumb my return pump? <Hmmm, yes vinyl tubing? It can kink and restrict flow if you are not careful. Flexible PVC or nylon reinforced vinyl are a better choice.> I’m probably going to use rigid PVC 1"right at pump with 1"valve, then the 1" clear pipe approx 5' to rigid PVC were it enters the back wall. I wanted to use flex (white) PVC, but Home Depot, pool suppliers don’t carry it. <Most do under the SpaFlex label.> Don’t want to order on line because I don’t need 50'.My next question is regarding the Durso pipes, the 1" is a slip and the 3/4" is threaded in overflow boxes. I feel it’s going to be difficult to get exactly the same heights due to one being a slip and the other being threaded. When I build them out of tank they might be exact but when one is put into slip fitting then one being threaded might throw off there heights. It’s also very difficult to measure them in the overflow boxes due to avail room. What do you recommend? <Build both and “dry fit” before cementing anything this will make it easy for you to adjust the heights to match. You may have to install and remove the standpipes a time or two, but this is about the long run, a little extra effort is worth it.> While I have you here I just wanted to sum up what I have set up so far to see what you think. 2-1" AND 2-3/4" over flows being used as drainage coming down under tank to all 1" approx 10", then to 1" 1/2" "tee" to a 2" manifold. This is drained from middle approx 1"right into wall. When it comes out the other side it extends approx 1' then a 45 degree then down into sump. The sump area is approx 2' x 22",spills over 3/8 glass approx 16"high then under and over the third baffle which is 15". The refugium is in the middle, approx 33" x 2' then hits the second set of baffles 14" then 13" to the return pump. <This all sounds fine.> Returning water back to tank through 1" flex or PVC into wall. The 1" runs up the back of tank were it splits in middle I used a 3/4" PVC, then three 1/2" return nozzles along back, left, center, right of the tank. I will be using 1/2" flex pipe to direct flow to different areas in tank which will have little valves to control flow in tank. <I assume you are referring to Loc-Line, a good configuration.> I know this is a little lengthy but I just want it to all be right. Thanks John, PS, what size return pump did you recommend for this application, and what make of pump? <I would choose something in the 700-800 gph at your head height for this, a Eheim 1262 if it were me.> I was thinking mag. <You can go this route, a Mag 9.5 will do the trick. Good luck, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium Re: Sump/Refugium, Tubing found 4/5/08 Hey Scott, thanks for the response. <Welcome.> I found the tubing I needed. Yes the SpaFlex tubing. 6' for $11. <Great!> Also regarding the Durso pipes I found the "Durso" web site and ordered the 1" and 3/4" pipes pre made. I am using the LocLine in the tank for returns. I ordered (3) 6" flex line tubes with a valve on each so I have control of flow in tank. I also ordered flared ends. Should I drill a small hole in the flex pipe to break the siphon just below the water line, and if yes what size hole? <You certainly can, a few 1/8-3/16” holes in each line will do the trick.> I’m going to send you pics in my next e-mail of the sump/refugium. <Sounds good, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/5/08 Hey Scott, here’s the pics of the sump/refugium. I hope they came out, John. Thanks for all the help. Hey Scott, I didn’t know if you got my pics last night, ,here they are again. John <Yes, they came through this time. Although a little blurry, the design looks good, this will work fine. Welcome, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/7/08 Hey Scott, I just had a question. <Hello again John.> I was wondering if I should "tee" off the spa flex that’s running over the refugium with a valve. <I would not.> Would this lesson the flow in the main tank returns? <Yes, this approach wastes power in my opinion.> Or should I put in a power head for more flow. <If you need more flow in the refugium this is the way to go.> I would like to put in some Chaetomorpha algae. Could I use a plant grow light from home depot for this? <Certainly.> If yes what type do you recommend? <I use, recommend and even sell a patio light from Costco for refugium use. It is a 6500 Kelvin 65 watt quad compact bulb for around $8. It does need a cord attached to it and has a photo sensor that needs to be removed. Any 6500K or so fluorescent bulb will serve you well here.> Should I wait to put in the Chaetomorpha algae when cycling or put it in immediately? <I like to wait until the tank is cycled and stable to add the macroalgae. Best regards, Scott V.> Re: 120 reef sump/refugium MegaFlow Modification 4/17/08 Hey guys. <Hello John.> I have a couple of questions. First, I got my pump hooked up and tested, filled tank and sump. Seemed to work no leaks in plumbing. <Great!> I’m using the Mag pump 9.5 I know you suggested Eheim, but got it for a good price. <We all use different pumps, the Mags are a fine choice.> I drained all because I’m waiting for the Durso pipes to get here. Still need to get skimmer, light and rock. So my question is I was reading on the Durso web sight under mega flow modification. They cut out the teeth and put in a mesh face. They cut a piece of gutter guard and hot glued in place. This was done for more flow. What do you think about this? <I have seen this many places and find it totally unnecessary. The thinking is to increase the flow through the overflow, but the teeth are not the issue, it is bulkhead size. Fact of the matter is the bulkhead(s) limit the flow to just a bit more than 300 gph if you use the 1” and around 450 per overflow if you also use the ¾” as a drain. The teeth (I have actually tested this) are good for a little more than 900 gph.> It just seems good to me due to the teeth clogging up. <Yes, if you wind up with serious algae issues.> Would this be ok in my application? <It does not hurt, it is just not needed in my opinion.> My last question was I have an FX-5 canister filter from my previous set up. Could I use this at my sump just for carbon or other things. NOT <mechanical> filtration. Or would this also cause high nitrates? Just wanted your input on this or should I just scrap it and put directly in sump? Thanks again, John. <You could use the canister for this purpose. Although it is an inconvenient way to run carbon compared to making yourself a tray of some sort in your sump to hold it. You will still need to clean the canister and the carbon is just far easier to change out in the sump. Welcome, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 4/21/08 Hey Scott just wanted to let you know I received the Durso pipes yesterday. When I put them in they stuck up from the rim approx 1"-2" inches. They said to measure from the top rim to bulkhead. So I cut them down around 3" now the top cap is level with the overflow box. I don’t know why they said measure to the tank rim. <It’s just a standard reference point for your type of overflow.> Well any way, it’s all filled up again all seems to be working well. Just adjusting the hole in Durso a little bit you can still here water swishing, little noisy but not gurgling, the water sounds smooth. <Sounds good.> No bubbles or micro bubbles in main tank, just a little ripple at top of water. I’m just waiting for my skimmer, compact flr light; thinking about an orbit 96x4 high output fixture? <Depends on what you want to keep.> Then I’m going to stock with some live rock. Then wait, wait, wait some more. You mentioned putting carbon directly into tank on a tray. Should this be put right under water flow from supply line? <No, this will grind the carbon up on itself. It needs to be behind some sort of diffuser such as a drip tray, not beneath any kind of forceful flow.> Or can it just be placed on the bottom of sump? <Yes, in an area where water will pass through such as between baffles.> Which section, the first skimmer supply side or last return side? <Closer to the last.> My supply side is 2" with a 90 degree approx just below the water line. Should I raise it up out of the water with a tray below so the water falls onto carbon or and filter pad tray area? Or just leave as is? <Leave it the way it is.> Other than these little things I let it run over night for the first time so far so good thanks again to you. <Great to hear! You’re welcome.> YEP, I am also re searching your web site for info. <Good.> Sorry to bother you again, John. <No bother, best of luck, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 5/7/08 Hey Scott, its John again. <Hello John.> I just wanted to give you an update. I received my light fixture today orbit 2x250 HQI 65x4 ho actincs,18 moon lights. <Wow! Eighteen? Some moonlighting!> All's I can say is WOW! This thing is BRIGHT!!! <I bet.> The tank looks awesome. I have approx 120lbs Fiji live rock in it right now I didn’t go with the base rock from Dr. Fosters the shipping was going to be around $200. <The issue with ordering live rock from most Etailers, the shipping kills them too!> So I went local lfs got $3.99 lbs over 50lbs for premium not base rock. <A fair price.> The Euro Reef RS 180 is working great, right out of the box. <As it should.> I have a couple of questions about the lighting. How should I set up timers for lighting, in morning the actinics what time to start and for how long? Then the HQI'S, what time should they turn on and how long should they be on? <What time is relative to when you want to view the tank, so long as it is the same time everyday. Ten hours with the halides while having the actinics come on an hour before and stay on an hour after will work with this lighting, if that is the sunrise/sunset effect you would like.> Should the actinics be on from start of morning to night. <Generally, yes.> Then HQI'S go on for around 6 hours middle of day then turn off.I m gonna run the tank for a few months with just the rock. <You will want a more natural photoperiod in the range of 10-12 hours a day. With lower light corals you may be able to get away with 8 using these lights.> Should the lighting be off during initial cycling, or should just actinics be on for a few hours a day? <Some light curing rock, some don’t. I am firmly in the category that does to preserve as much life on the rock as possible. The argument for not lighting is the potential for algae blooms. This is just a phase that requires good skimming and frequent water changes.> Sorry for all the questions I’m throwing out at you. <Not a problem.> Last question should I put in a couple of green Chromis to help cycle or the rock will handle the cycle alone. <It will be fine alone. Adding fish while cycling can be detrimental to the fish if the rock has much curing to do.> I know you frown against any live stock during cycling. <Yes, better to wait until your water quality is good and stable.> I will be testing water daily now that all is up in running to monitor and log down the readings. Well thanks again Scott I have been researching all of this also, I just prefer specific answers from "you" because you've got me this far all your answers have been dead on. Thanks again <You are welcome John. Thank you and enjoy the new set up! Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium/Sand 5/10/08 Hey Scott, I have a quick question. <Otay.> What's better sand from an established tank from the local fish stores system or the bagged Caribbean live sand. <The former, the bagged stuff does not qualify as a truly live sand in my book.> I opted for the system established sand around 5 lbs with rubble rather than the bag of live sand. <Good choice.> I thought I read that the live sand is not really live sand. <Not the bagged and sealed stuff.> Also I had around 50LBS of old Caribbean live rock from my old tank it has dried out. I wanted to use this in my tank under my new Fiji live rock. Is this ok? Its to just build up under the good rock. <This will be fine combined with your newly acquired live rock. As far as the sand goes, either will populate in time from the rock. Getting sand from an established system will just give you a little head start. Enjoy, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium 5/10/08 P.s. I thought you might find this funny. I’m at the LFS and the guy asked me what I'm cycling my tank with, I said just live rock. He tells me they have a sort of fish rental a large, looked like a 8 lb fish for $350 bucks <Geez, I hope the price is a typo!> you actually buy him to cycle your tank then bring him back to replace after the tank has cycled. He said he's been in many systems for cycling purposes. What do you think of this practice? <There are far better ways to cycle a tank, and it is wholly unnecessary for tanks with live rock (other than curing the rock). I am of the firm opinion you only cycle a tank with fish you intend to keep, hence caution against using Domino damsels for this purpose. I guess renting the fish is one idea, one way to introduce disease too! Funny stuff, Scott V.> Re: 120 Reef Sump/Refugium/Flow 5/17/08 Hey Scott, how’s it going? <Hanging in there.> I just had a quick question, if you remember my set up, I have the (3) 1/2"returns left, center and right side of tank. I have the loc-line on each you were saying I have around 900-950gph returning to tank. <The appropriate flow for these returns.> My question is I just added today (2)Koralia #2 power heads rated at 600gph each, does this sound ok for flow in tank (reef), total of 2,100gph.I'm in slight diatom mode all levels are at zero. Thanks John. <This of course entirely depends on what you wish to keep. But, this amount of flow in a 120 will put you in a good range, yes. Talk soon, Scott V.>

Re: 90 gallon AGA, to become reef.
Re: Refugium Plumbing 3/3/08
So upon making my choice of Refugium (I ended up going with ADHI model 45)
I'm now down to the annoying task of plumbing.
<An accurately described job.>
I'm trying to plumb the ¾” return from my Mag drive using 3/4 inch pvc as opposed to vinyl tubing.
<OK>
Problem being, AGA's bulkheads seem to be more of a hindrance than anything. I cannot for the life of me get the pvc connected to the bulkheads. Can I get new bulkheads without the barbed fittings at the base of the bulkhead that will still be compatible with the return pipe and MegaFlow "Durso"? I'm very confused.
<You can easily get standard bulkheads and plumb them up to suit your needs. Everything is sold as a kit, but uses standard PVC parts. All will work with new bulkheads.>
Jason
<Good luck, Scott V.>

Running Protein Skimmer Outside Sump 2/28/08
Hello
<Hello.>
I have a new 65 gallon reef ready all glass set up. I also have a 11.5 gallon refugium.
<Great! A refugium is a nice addition to any tank.>
My problem is that my skimmer is too wide to fit into the compartments... how can I plumb the skimmer outside the refugium or use a container to place it into? I have a 38 gal reef set up I am moving to the new 65 gallon.
Thanks
<As far as externally plumbing the skimmer, it will depend on which skimmer you have. Some simply cannot be run like this. You can easily get a container (tank, plastic bin, 5 gal bucket if it will fit into it) to run it in. You will need to have your overflow feeding the skimmer container and then have the container overflow into the rest of your sump/refugium system via a bulkhead (Uniseals are nice if you use the 5 gal bucket) and PVC. There are many ways to do this, all different for each situation. It all just requires a little innovation. Good luck, Scott V.>

Remote Refugium 2/24/08
Dear WWM Crew,
<Hello William.>
For starters I would like to say what a wonderful resource WWM is and hope it continues indefinitely into the future. Many of my "unique" questions have be asked and answered countless times on WWM, and for that I am already in your debt (along with a national home loan company).
<Heee, me too! Thank you for the kind words.>
My current question pertains to locating a remote refugium in my bedroom (romance any one), I am sure this is not a novel idea and has been asked and answered previously, but I was unable to find it and will proceed.
The display tank is in the living room and has been running for two years, my former tank (running eight years) was destroyed during the 2005 hurricane season like so many gulf coast aquarists.
<Sorry to hear this.>
My current setup is a 170-gallon (4'L x 3'H x 2’W; beautiful to behold and impossible to reach the bottom) soft coral reef with eight fish, highlighted by two rabbit fish, which are my personal favorites. Water handling is similar to most, center overflow with a thirty-gallon sump which contains an ETTS reef devil skimmer, a small refugium, heaters, and return pump. The lighting is accomplished via a 400 watt metal halide and 4 65 watt actinic power compacts while water flow is enhanced by an in tank maxi jet 1200 (I am planning to mod the maxi as I hear it is all the rage in Paris these days).
<I am a fan of those mods, I have rigged many of these up over the years. The new kits are nice.>
I would like to create a more natural and stable system by adding a seventy-five or 120 gallon refugium to the mix. The common problem of space and décor comes in to play and there is no possible way to put the new tank in the same room (and stay married).
<Yikes!>
So I would like to plumb through the wall and attic into the bedroom and put the refugium in there as a fuge display. What is the best method for doing this in a leak and over flow proof way?
<This is not going to happen without relying on siphons, float valves and/or balancing pump outputs. None are flood proof, all are bad ideas in my judgment.><<Agreed. RMF>>
I have never had a problem with any drilled tank and sump set up (knocking on wood) and will only pursue this idea if it seems fool proof.
<I would not pursue this; you will not see it in my house!>
Gravity feed is impossible because I live in a one-story slab house; basements in south Louisiana are very uncommon. A closed loop setup with dual pumps seams guaranteed to fail.
<It will.>
At any rate your input will be helpful in deciding if this is a reasonable project or turn my attention in another direction (like doing a water change).
<It is easy to find something to keep busy with a reef tank!>
Thank you,
William B Wood
<Welcome, have fun, Scott V.>

Refugium Flow 2/23/08
I currently have a CPR hang on the back refugium (the large one, I think 24" long). My main question is what should the gph be for this unit. The powerhead it came with doesn't seem like it's pushing the water fast enough.
<The powerhead that comes with the unit is rated for 230 gph, this should be plenty of flow through this refugium. Sometimes it is not about the amount of flow, but how it is directed. Have you tried cleaning the powerhead?>
On the top of the water, in my fuge, there is like Cyano and it looks like little bogs. There is like Cyano on all of the acrylic of the fuge as well. There is NO Cyano in my main tank, only in the refugium.
<Good sign.>
I'm thinking about upgrading to a better power head, the macroalgae doesn't even tumble or anything.
<You certainly can do so, this could help.>
Also, my refugium has a lot of what looks like debris on top of the sand. Is this detritus?
<Or algae, Cyano.>
Should I remove it?
<You can, this will be a treatment and not a cure.>
I've heard that the little amphipods with eat it, and don't worry.
<Not all, algae and Cyanobacteria are likely.>
I don't want this being a nitrate booster for my tank. Should I add a cucumber to the refugium?
<No, little benefit to and many down sides to adding these, please see the linked article below. Perhaps consider adding a Nassarius snail or two to help stir the sand.>
Or will the new flow rate just blow it into my tank then my skimmer can take care of it.
<It sounds like it will help out.>
Any advice on these two situations is always helpful from you guys/gals. Thanks
<Welcome, please read the links below, good luck, Scott V.>
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/seacukes.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/refugpbfaq2.htm

Thoughts and Suggestions on a Combined Refugium/Sump…and Pumps – 01/07/07
Hi Crew!
<<Hiya Doug!>>
I've been in the hobby just a few months now, and am excited to step up from my 20G to a 120G!
<<Neat! Bigger “is” better>>
I'm planning for mostly FOWLR, but may add more inverts/corals as I slowly gain experience.
<<Mmm, then do keep this in mind when making your stocking selections…you will want to collect “reef friendly” specimens>>
Here are my current plans:
- 120G tank, 48x24x24", acrylic.
- Stand 40" tall, 9" canopy.
- 2 corner overflows – each with 2" inner diameter bulkhead at 20" height.
<<Ahh, very good…I see you’ve been reading!>>
- 2x 1" inner diameter bulkheads for return from sump.
For a sump/refugium below, I'm thinking of a standard 55G tank following your diagrams.
<<”Standard” glass tanks work quite well as sump and/or refugium vessels…and are a whole-lot cheaper than the purpose-built retail alternatives. Add a few baffles, drill and install a couple bulkheads (when/if necessary), and you’re “golden”…with money saved/ready to spend on other areas. My own system incorporates a modified 55g tank for a refugium, and a modified 75g tank for a sump>>
- Skimmer: AquaC EV180 w Mag 7 pump.
- Aiming for 15x water flow gives 1800gph.
<<Indeed…but I expect you will find that trying to process this much water volume through a 55g sump will be problematic>>
- Two sump return pumps, internal Eheim 1262s (want it to be quiet), should be about 1600gph at 5" head.
<<Very good pumps…and the “redundancy” of two pumps for your return can be a lifesaver, literally. About a year ago a faulty GFCI tripped and shut down the return pump on my heavily stocked 500g reef system (was off more than nine hours before discovery). The ensuing anoxic condition resulted in the loss of more than $1200.00 worth of livestock (fish and corals). Let’s just say “lesson learned”… I now have two return pumps on separate circuits for this system>>
Questions:
1. Is that too much flow through the refugium?
<<Yes… A couple to a few hundred gallons per hour is generally sufficient for a refugium. Obviously, utilizing “separate” vessels for sump and refugium make plumbing for the differing flow rates a bit easier>>
2. If so, would it work well to use just a single Eheim for the sump return, ~800gph, with an internal powerhead like a Tunze Stream in the tank?
<<800gph through the sump would be easier to accommodate (and a LOT less noisy), and some creative work with the baffles could provide a “raceway” to allow the full force of the flow to circumvent the refugium section on its way from the skimmer chamber to the pump chamber, while allowing you to divert a few hundred gph to the ‘fuge…if you choose to keep with a single combined vessel. I still like the idea of two return pumps…perhaps a couple Eheim pumps of lesser size…>>
Then maybe reduce the drains to 2x 1.5"ID?
<<A pair of 1.5” drains would handle a flow of 800gph quite well, with a healthy safety margin>>
Your thoughts and suggestions are very welcome!
Thanks,
Doug
<<Is my pleasure to assist. EricR>>

Upward Flow? (Refugium Setup) – 01/06/07
Hi crew,
<<Hello Kevin>>
I currently have a 70g SW FOWLR tank with a 30g sump/refugium.
<<Neat!>>
My refugium is setup as a DSB (5") RDP with live rock and Chaetomorpha with a 60w 5100K spiral CF light clipped on the side.
<<Hmm…do you find this to be enough light? I’m finding Chaetomorpha does better with a bit more light than this>>
So far it has been doing fine and the Chaetomorpha has been growing steadily.
<<Ah, I see… If it does “stall out” then do consider increasing the amount/intensity of the lighting>>
The refugium has been up and running now for about 6 months. I have read some of your other FAQs and noticed you mentioning the term "upward flow" in regards to refugium setup.
<<Hmm, doesn’t ring a bell with me at the moment>>
What exactly is this?
<<Dunno…can you be more specific?>>
I am concerned my refugium may not be setup ideally. Currently the main source of any water flow is a MaxiJet powerhead running a tube into the refugium then the refugium overflows into the main sump where the return pump is.
<<Where is the powerhead located? My preference is to feed “raw” water from the display to the refugium and then let it gravity-drain to the sump…but, if you are pumping water from the sump…this is acceptable>>
What do I need to do to have ideal "upward flow" in my refugium to fully utilize my DSB/RDP Chaetomorpha setup?
<< No need to make this more difficult than it is, mate [grin]. If you’ve got a couple hundred gallons per hour from the powerhead going to the refugium, and the macro-algae is growing as you stated…I don’t see where you need to do anything>>
Also, in the next month or two I will be venturing into learning how to hard plumb my aquarium.
<<Okay>>
The water will be split from the overflow pipe coming down to the sump/refugium.
<<Excellent>>
Ball valves will be used to make sure there is more flow to the main sump then to the refugium.
<<Consider using “gate-valves” rather than ball-valves. They will cost a few dollars more, but will provide much more precise flow adjustment>>
Keeping in mind my setup, what considerations should I have as far as pipe placement into the refugium and sump? Should the pipes go straight down and deep? Or should it end in a small 90 degree towards the surface? What would be the ideal way to have the water enter into the sump and refugium via PVC?
<<I find a 45-degree ell on the termination end, a couple inches below the surface, works well>>
I am sorry it is partially a two part question on two topics though hard plumbing into the refugium will inevitably effect the "upward flow" and the lay out in my refugium so I needed to understand better the impact of what "upward flow" was and when hard plumbing into the sump and refugium and how I could make sure I account for this.
<<No worries>>
The part about plumbing into the sump won't affect the refugium or "upward flow" but I figured since I was asking I would ask about that too :)
Thanks in advance,
Kevin
<<Happy to share… Once you are ready to hard-plumb, do feel free to write back to discuss if you like. Regards, EricR>>

Tank Configuration, sump/and fuge chamber pb des.  12/4/07
Hello Again Professors,
<Hello, only a few of us are, not me.>
I’m in the middle of setting up my 125 gallon (72inch long) tank. I’m trying to figure out some of the plumbing aspects and want to know what you think is best. My tank is an AGA with two Megaflow chambers. I have a 46 gallon Oceanic Sump and implementing a 15 gallon refugium. I was wondering if I should use one chamber solely for the intake/return of the refugium and the other chamber for the intake/return of the sump.........or have one chamber dedicated with the intake to refugium and intake to the sump, while the other Megaflow chamber would have another intake to the sump and the return from the sump. The return of the refugium would go to a side bulkhead in the sump where it would bypass the bio-balls but be filtered by the mechanical and chemical areas of the sump.? Which setup do you think is better for my future livestock. Thank you so much.
<If I understand you correctly you have two chambers in your sump and an external refugium? Consider one overflow line feeding the sump and the other one feeding the refugium with both overflowing into a common return chamber. Saves you use of a pump. I would skip filtering the refugium return through the mechanical/chemical media to allow any pods from the refugium back into your main tank. If this is a reef tank or a FOWLR with a good bit of rock, I would not use the bioballs. Welcome, hope this helps, Scott V.>
 

Refugium Installation…Avoiding Biota Loss To The Skimmer – 09/30/07
Dear Wet Web Media Crew,
<<Hello Eric>>
I have been reading your website for a few years now and it has provided me with all the information I have needed to set up and maintain my first reef aquarium!
<<Excellent!>>
Thanks so much for all of your hard work.
<<We’re all pleased to be a party to your success>>
My question is regarding plumbing a refugium.
<<Okay>>
I recently purchased a 20 gallon tank to be added as a refugium to my 72 gallon aquarium.
<<An always worthwhile venture>>
I brought the tank to a gentleman who owns a LFS to be drilled, but upon arriving I noticed he was getting rid of a 90 gallon tank predrilled for the same price as the cost of the 20 gallon plus the drilling.
<<Sweet>>
So naturally I decided to buy the 90 and return the 20.
<<Naturally [grin]>>
The problem is that the only way I can conceptualize the plumbing is to add a submersible pump in the sump and have the fuge overflow back into the sump to be returned to the main tank.
<<Yep…and is how mine is plumbed>>
I am concerned that if I allow the water to be delivered into the sump the various life forms will be destroyed by the EuroReef skimmer.
<<Not an invalid concern… Arrange the design such that the refugium spills back directly in to the “pump chamber” of the sump, thus avoiding the skimmer>>
The sump is somewhat small, so I am guessing some, if not all of the water will be sucked into the skimmer.
<<Mmm…that depends on the design/configuration of the sump…whether or not the skimmer is compartmentalized distal from the return pump>>
I have read contradictory information regarding the damage caused by pumps; any definitive information would be greatly appreciated.
<<The return pump will cause “some” damage to biota, but most will pass through just fine…and even those damaged organisms will still be consumed/provide benefit to the system>>
The refugium will either contain a DSB and Chaetomorpha or will be a sea grass type display.
Thanks in advance,
Eric
<<Happy to share. EricR>>

Flow Rate (gph) vs. Pumping Height (Feet) = Refugium trouble, Combining A Refugium Within A Sump...How Do I Regulate Flow? – 08/15/07
Crew or anybody for that concern, help please.
<<How can I be of service?>>
Hello again,
<<Greetings>>
So it's been awhile since I lost my 125 reef.
<<Uh-oh>>
Yes the seal let go.
<<Mmm, I can sympathize...had the bottom seal let go on an 80g reef a few years back>>
I was crushed, we saved every thing but still lost a lot of money and good effort go down the drain.
<<Indeed>>
This happened last April of this year. Now I find myself wanting another reef tank and my soon to be wife wanting to kill me.
<<Fortunately my wife was more empathetic and understanding>>
I'm building a 55g reef with a 125g refugium under the 55g reef tank.
<<Interesting...most folks would go the other way around. But kudos to you, the reef will be all the better for the larger size and capacity of the refugium>>
My cousin is building the hutch-like stand for me as I type and read WWM daily.
<<Cool>>
So here is what I'm trying to figure out, I hope I don't confuse you.
<<Me too! [grin]>>
The Mag-Drive Pump that I have pumps 1200gph and with 7ft head-loss it pumps 810gph.
<<Okay>>
My continuous siphon overflow box does 800gph.
<<Hmm, do “test” this...I think it likely you will find anything more than “half” this rate may become problematic>>
This turns a 55g reef over like 11-12 times per hour( I think).
<<About “14” actually>>
That's way too much pumping through a refugium from what I read.
<<Not necessarily...in my opinion>>
WWM recommends turning over a refugium 2-3 times per hour, correct?
<<That’s more of a “minimum” baseline...there’s no real necessity for it, but also no reason why you can’t use a much higher flow rate as long as the system handles it well>>
I'm really hoping I can combine the sump/refugium all into one tank?
<<You can... This is not “my” preferred method, but many hobbyists do just what you stated>>
If so, how can I slow the water down and combine the two?
<<Ah, well...you will need to “isolate” the refugium within the sump yet allow water to pass from the first chamber to the last/the pump chamber unimpeded. There are two ways you can do this...one is to install baffles as usual to enclose/isolate the refugium but instead of fitting these from wall-to-wall across the width of the sump, you will need to stop short by a couple inches. You will also need to fit a side piece along the open length of the refugium. In doing this you have created a “channel” along one side of the ‘fuge which will allow water to circumvent the refugium and travel directly to the pump chamber. Now all you need do is install a small pump/powerhead in the first chamber of the sump to feed a lower flow-rate to the ‘fuge while letting the higher flow-rate from the tank’ drains travel around to the other end of the sump. Or...rather than “building” the refugium you can simply place a smaller tank (30g/40g) within the sump to achieve the same effect. With both of these methods you can either drill the end-wall to allow water to drain, or as long as the top of the refugium chamber is lower than the top of the sump, you can simply allow the refugium to fill and “well-over” the sides (this latter might actually allow for “better” transfer of planktonic/epiphytic matter>>
If I'm way off track here or if I seem confused it’s from reading others ideas and WWM.
<<Keep reading/thinking, mate...the understanding will come>>
I'm more “you show me” or a “hands on” type of guy so that's why I'm asking you or someone for some help because I'm really stressing it here over this little 55g reef.
<<No worries...just take a deep breathe, slow down, and take your time>>
I just want it right this time, I can’t keep starting over and over again.
<<Patience is key...keep reading/researching/asking questions...>>
Sorry this was so long and took some time to figure out.
<<Again...no worries>>
Thanks for your time, I appreciate your efforts here at WWM.
Brian, Wisconsin
<<Happy to help, Brian. EricR, South Carolina>>

Sump-thing I would like to try... Refugium Configuration…One Pump Goes In, One Pump Goes Out (Not A Good Plan!) – 07/16/07
Hello, again.
<<Hiya Dan!>>
A sump related question.
<<Ah…one of my specialties…[grin]>>
I just recently bought a Magnum 350 for filtration, I have since been doing a lot of reading and I want to move into a reef tank from a FOWLER.
<<Cool>>
I have asked a couple of questions in the last couple of days (FOWLER to Reef 1 & 2) but I did not find anything like my idea after searching.
<<Oh yes, I believe I fielded an earlier query of yours>>
I was thinking about using the 350 as a pump and chemical filtration (charcoal) <<carbon>> and then running from there to a sump with a protein skimmer, and then some biological filtration such as live sand and rock and Chaetomorpha, then setting up a secondary pump to return the water.
<<I afraid this is NOT a viable configuration>>
Would this be a reasonable way to do a sump?
<<Honestly, no… It is just not possible to balance incoming and outgoing pumps…you WILL end up with “water on the floor” my friend>>
Since I just bought the Magnum, I really don't want to have to discard it this soon, plus I like the ease of use and power of it.
<<No need to discard the canister filter, mate…you have a couple options here. I believe in your earlier exchange you mentioned you were looking at a “hang-on” refugium…if this is the case, the Magnum filter can be employed to pull water from the display and then return it to the refugium which then gravity-drains back in to the display. If you have a different plan, do get back to me with the details and I’ll be happy to help you work it out>>
Getting creative and more knowledgeable, Dan
<<Be chatting. EricR>>

Re: Refugium Configuration…One Pump Goes In, One Pump Goes Out (Not A Good Plan!) – 07/17/07
Eric,
<<Dan>>
Thanks again for your quick and knowledgeable answer.
<<I hope it helped>>
I was moving past the hang-on idea since it seemed from your earlier response that it would not be the best idea.,
<<Much better to utilize a larger vessel if/when possible>>
so I was trying to be creative with the equipment I already have.
<<Understood, and there’s no reason you can’t still utilize the canister filter...I really do like these devices for chemical filtration as you mentioned you had planned. Since you won’t be using a hang-on style refugium now I will assume for the moment you will be providing a gravity feed/drain from the display to the sump/refugium. You can utilize the canister filter for chemical filtration and as the return pump (ok), or you can use a separate return pump and utilize the canister filter on the sump side solely for chemical filtration (better). And now let me complicate things for you a bit more... If you have the space for two separate vessels, do consider a separate sump AND a refugium. This makes it much easier to tailor the use/function of each>>
I am, looking to not invest a large sum at one time but gradually build my way up.
<<Then get the sump/skimmer/chemical filtration going first and add the refugium when you can (if this is the plan you choose)>>
Thanks for clearing that up for me, I was wondering if the flow would be enough or equal, that clears that up, time to develop a new plan!
<<Indeed...trying to balance two pumps against each other is just not a good idea. Differences in head-pressures along with changing restrictions from bio-film in the plumbing make it impossible to keep the pumps “balanced” to prevent one from overwhelming the other at some point>>
Thanks again, time for more research! Dan
<<Good man! Decide what you want to do and how you want to do it, and when you have more questions...you know where to find me. Eric Russell>>

Reef and Marine System Plumbing/Sump/Refugium Design And Installation...Where The Heck Are All The Detailed Schematics?! – 05/10/07
Hello folks,
<<Hiya Deb!>>
I've been perusing your FAQs but haven't found an answer to my question, so I thought I drop you a line.
<<Okey –dokey>>
I'm currently having an 850 sq. ft. addition put onto my home, which will be one large room.
<<I see>>
Once this is finished (if ever), I am going to move my current 55g reef tank into it.  At that time, I would like to upgrade to a 220g reef tank and convert my 55g aquarium to a sump/refugium.
<<Cool!>>
This has led to many questions, which I'm going to outline below.
<<Ok>>
-Do you have any input as to whether it would be detrimental for me to run both a sump and a refugium out of the same 55g tank, assuming that the tank is divided properly to accommodate both of these?
<<Is not “detrimental” to do this...but I feel you don’t get “best use” of these systems when combined in the same vessel>>
What are the positives/negatives to a setup such as this?
<<Mmm, negatives would be...the inability to vary flow between the two systems, the proximity of chemical reactors/skimmers/etc to the refugium and their increased likelihood for removing beneficial biota as a result, the promotion of nuisance algae on/in the sump as well as on/in the sump filtration components (filter socks/reactors/skimmer/et al) as a direct result of the close proximity of lighting for a vegetable (macroalgae) refugium.  As for positives...saves space I suppose...>>
If this is problematic, I've got several empty tanks right now (2 55g, 1 20g, 1 10g) that could be used for the refugium.
<<A better approach, in my opinion....and as always, the bigger the better>>
-I would like the refugium portion of my tank to house mangroves with a sand bed.
<<Unless you just “have a thing” for mangroves, I highly suggest utilizing a macroalgae (Chaetomorpha gets my vote for its “user friendliness”) instead as the mangroves grow much slower by comparison and won’t be nearly as efficient with nutrient uptake>>
So, in essence, this will be a "show" tank just as the main tank will be.
<<Oh...I see...well then, perhaps another of those empty tanks could also be added to the system to house the macroalgae?>>
Because of this, I would like to place the 55g tank on the same plane as the 220g tank (bottoms rest on the same level), sitting next to it.
<<Okay...and all the more reason NOT to combine sump and refugium>>
Having said this, what impact will this have on my overflow or water circulation situation?
<<This can be problematic>>
In all of my research, I've found only sumps/refugiums that are located either above or below main tanks.
<<Indeed...to allow the use of gravity drains>>
I am still planning on setting up a sort of ball valve mechanism that stays open when the pump is running but closes when the pump shuts down (i.e. power loss) to prevent back siphoning.
<<What you describe is called a “check-valve”...and is not recommended as these will fail sooner or later (usually when you/no one is around).  I recommend instead you place the vessels and position the throughputs in such a way, as well as adjusting “working” water heights so that all transient water is contained in the lowest vessel when the pumps/power is off>>
But I'm thinking that, as long as the 55g tank is the same height as the 220g, the water will simply level off in the event of a back siphon and the sump/refugium will not overflow.
<<And just how do you plan to plumb these tanks to accomplish this?  Surely not with “siphon U-tubes” to manage the water balance?>>
Does this make sense?
<<Without some detail on how you plan to pull this off is just seems more scary than sensible mate>>
Physics is not my strong suit!
<<Mmm...and fluid-dynamics seem particularly mystifying to many hobbyists>>
As an aside, part of the house renovations include a 16,000W full home generator (we lose power about 10 times a year where I live), so hopefully, the back siphoning issue won't be a problem.
<<This won’t help with a pump failure, but is an excellent addition nonetheless.  Here in South Carolina we also experience frequent power losses (the abundance of squirrels here seem particularly suicidal when it comes to the pole-mounted electric transformers).  I have a small 5500w generator purchased just for my reef display>>
But I'm planning for the worst case scenario, trying to ensure that my livestock stays healthy in the event of any system failure.
<<You need to be particularly mindful of how you plumb this system>>
Finally, when you Google aquarium system design, you get about a hundred different sketches of people's own systems, which is great.
<<Indeed>>
But, I would really like to find some setup examples that are drawn to scale and that label all functioning parts.
<<Hmm...a more narrow keyword search (e.g. – ‘refugium design’ or ‘sump design’) of the Net and perusing “marine/reef” books may turn up a few “standard” designs with the detail you desire>>
When this new system is setup, I would like to hook up a calcium reactor, a tank monitoring system, a top-off system, and various other bells and whistles that will allow me to make sure that the tank environment is always optimal.
<<Ah yes...can make life a bit less hectic for you as well>>
Can you point me to some links that have very accurate and well labeled tank designs containing some of these features?
<<Not with the detail you’re after, no...will take a bit of effort/looking around as mentioned...if such even exists>>
Thanks, as always, for all of your help!
Deb
<<I do want to help Deb...  If you wish...make a decision on whether you will use a combined setup or separate vessels, determine equipment placement, decide what it is you wish to accomplish with this display and how you think you want to plumb the system...write back to me with this info and I will be happy to help you work out the details and advise on any foreseen issues.  Regards, Eric Russell>>

Refugium Installation...No Siphon U-Tubes Please! – 04/26/07
Hello WWM crew,
<<Hello Casey>>
After reading about all of the benefits of a refugium, I just had to have one.
<<Ah yes, a very worthwhile addition>>
My main tank is a 55 gallon, and I created a 10 gallon refugium that sits next to and about 3 inches above my main tank.  The refugium has a 4" sand bed, 10 pounds of live rock, and Chaetomorpha and Cup Caulerpa.
<<I would remove the Caulerpa/keep the Chaetomorpha.  The differing macroalgae will “battle” each other (reducing their benefit at best...negating it altogether at worst), and of the two the Chaetomorpha is the most “user friendly”>>
I intended to just have the Chaetomorpha as I read in the other FAQ's that it's best in small refugiums to stick with 1 type,
<<Mmm...is best in “any” size refugium, in my opinion>>
but there was a small piece of the Caulerpa mixed in when I bought it, and now it's all growing well.
<<So it may appear, but be assured there is a chemical war waging>>
Anyway, the refugium has been running for about 3 weeks, and has lots of amphipods and copepods already.
<<Excellent...do think to add a bit of food (fish flakes/shrimp pellets) a few times a week to help bolster the populations/reduce the likelihood of cannibalism>>
Currently, it is unconnected to my main tank as I used some live rock from the LFS and I am waiting 5-6 weeks so that I don't introduce harmful elements into the main system.
<<Not likely a concern...considering the small amount of rock involved>>
I have 2 more weeks before I'll be connecting the tanks.
<<I see no need to wait...>>
Being that I'm not that handy, I found what seemed like an easy plan (image attached) to connect the two tanks.
<<I see the image...and I suggest you DO NOT do this.  The siphon U-tube “will fail” at some point causing the display to drain/the refugium to overflow.  It is much safer and highly recommended to either place the refugium lower than the display and let water gravity feed to the refugium (the plumbing/refugium static water level will need to be “balanced” to prevent an overflow in the event of a power outage) and then pump water back up to the display...or position the refugium above (even slightly) the display and “drilled/plumbed” to allow water pumped from the display to “gravity drain” back in to the display tank>>
I was planning to use a pump from the main tank to the refugium and a "U" type tube to siphon from the refugium to the main tank as pictured in the image.
<<A very bad idea in my opinion>>
However, it seems that if the siphon were to lose its seal, I'd have a big mess of saltwater all over my carpet.
<<Indeed>>
Is this truly risky or am I over thinking things?
<<Not a risk, is a CERTAINTY...just a matter of time my friend>>
If this is not a feasible and safe plan, what would be the best way to proceed?
<<As previously explained>>
Will I need to drill and attach an overflow fitting?
<<You will, yes>>
Will I need to drain the tank to do this?
<<Not at all...merely drain the water to a couple inches below where you will drill the throughput>>
The algae, amphipods, and copepods are all doing so well that I hope I won't have to disturb them.
<<They will be little bothered>>
Thanks for the wealth of knowledge that's available at WWM.
Casey
<<Is our pleasure to share...and feel free to give me a shout should you need more clarification re the refugium installation.  Eric Russell

Upstream Nano Refugium Plumbing - 04/03/07
Hello crew, from Makati Philippines.
<<Greetings Jason, from Columbia SC>>
I'm setting up a nano 20-gallon, with a 10-gallon refuge, and you guys have been tons of help figuring out which ways to go (and of course reading thru your FAQs).
<<Glad you've found the site of use>>
My refuge will be placed higher than my display tank.  I'll be pushing water via a small 100 gallon external pump up to my refuge bulkhead, and water will gravity overflow out of the other bulkhead into my display tank (just splashing into my display).
<<Sounds fine>>
I'm thinking of making drilling 2, 2-inch holes in my 10 gallon.  I want larger holes because you guys say it will reduce noise.
<<Mmm yes...tis true that larger throughputs generally make plumbing hassles, well, less of a hassle...but with this configuration and considering the very small rate of flow, I think you will do just fine with 1" bulkheads/pipe
Plus, I want less bubbles flowing back to my display.
<<Then you should consider "not" letting the flow from the refugium just "splash" in to the display>>
You think drilling a 2-inch hole is too big?
<<Bigger than you need in this instance, yes>>
I'm thinking of placing the holes such that there is 2-inch gap from the hole-perimeter from the top, and from the side.
<<Ok>>
One hole in the upper right corner, and one hole in the upper left corner. Is this spacing ok?
<<Yes>>
Will a rated 100gall/hr pump be too much flow to my DSB/Chaeto fuge?
<<Nope...twice that would be fine, even desirable>>
You think I'm gonna get some microbubble issues when my water gravity returns and splashes into my tank?
<<I do.  Consider plumbing a drain line from the refugium to the water's surface of the display with a 90-degree ell at the termination to allow the water from the refugium to more gently enter the display tank right at the surface...or even just below>> Should I make some sort of bubble trap backpack to place on my display tank?
<<Sure, if you think you can and it won't detract too much from the appearance of the display...but I think my solution is easier/would be less unsightly>>
I've read on your FAQs that since my water is gravity fed, I shouldn't have any
microbubble issues.
<<Mmm, maybe not so much “micro” bubbles.  But air entrainment and subsequent bubble issues are quite common with gravity drains...in my opinion/experience>>
Hope you guys are doing well where you are!
Jason
<<And to you in kind.  EricR>>

Re: Upstream Nano Refugium Plumbing - 04/04/07
Thanks for your reply guys!
<<Quite welcome>>
I have responses to your responses ...
<<Ok>>
The next step up from a 100gph is a 317 gph.  Considering that I will be using this to push water from my display to my fuge, then gravity fed back into my display, should my bulkheads be larger than 1"? ..say 1.5"?
<<I think the 1" would handle this flow rate fine, but upsizing to the 1.5" will be fine/provide some extra wiggle-room, if you wish to do so>>
For the bulkhead that is being used as a gravity return into my tank - what’s the best method for covering the bulkhead such that Chaeto doesn't go back into my tank - yet the copepods and such can flow to the display safely?
<<A standard bulkhead-screen works well...is what I use on my refugium>>
How many guys are on your worldwide WWM team for answering questions?
<<We have some 20+ guys and gals from a wide range of locals/backgrounds/experiences>>
You've got lots of help! :)
<<Indeed>>
Thanks guys,
Jason
<<Happy to share.  Eric Russell>>

Regulating The Flow Through My Sump/Refugium – 03/09/07
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I just have a question regarding the flow rate through my sump/refugium; I’ve done a lot of reading on WWM but can’t find the answer I’m looking for. (sorry if I’ve missed it).
<<No worries...let’s see if I can help>>
I’m just about to start building my sump tank, the first chamber shall house the skimmer, the second will be the fuge and then the return, the whole sump tank is roughly 25 gallons so the fuge shall hold roughly 13 gallons.  The skimmer shall be gravity fed with a “T” junction before the skimmer taking excess water from the overflow (which can handle 2400 litres per hour) into the refugium.
<<Ok...roughly 630 gph, for us colonials [grins]>>
Obviously the water from the skimmer also will flow into the fuge.
<<Yes>>
After a little research I’ve read that the flow through the refugium should be very low, (max 10x the fuge volume).
<<Depends really...a bare bottom refugium with Chaetomorpha macro-algae would likely be fine...but yes...generally, flow rates are 3-10 times the volume of the vessel>>
The way I have first planned (above) means that all the water coming from the overflow would go through the fuge (2400 litres per hour) which I now know is a lot.  The problem I have is that I want to use as much flow as possible to help with turnover but at the same time keep the flow through the fuge down.
<<I suggest you give it a try and see how it goes>>
I did think to bypass the fuge (from the overflow and skimmer) to the return chamber and “T” off the return pipe with a ball-valve and have some water redirected into the fuge but I still have water from my skimmer going into the fuge which will be around 800 litres an hour.
<<And is a mere 210 gph...should do nicely in my opinion>>
Would this be the best way to achieve this or am I missing something?
<<Not “missing” anything, I think this will be fine>>
I hope that all makes sense.
<<It does>>
Thanks.
Leo
<<Quite welcome, EricR>>

Refugium Flow Rate - 03/06/07
Hello Bob (and WWM crew),
<<WWM Crewmember Eric here...greetings>>
Can you please answer a few questions for me regarding a refugium installation?
<<Be happy to>>
First, what is the ideal flow-rate for a refugium measuring 36x16x18?
<<Is highly variable based on the "specifics" of the methodology employed, as well as subject to opinion...but anywhere from three to ten times the refugium's volume will likely suffice>>
Second, is there a formula or a way to figure out flow-rates on systems that have extended plumbing?
<<Most reliable method is to time in "seconds" how long it takes to fill a container of known volume, divide the time in to 3600 and multiply that number by the volume of the container to reach the flow-rate per-hour>>
And third, can I plumb the water going into the refugium through the chiller first?
<<Sure>>
I use a sump with ETSS 800 Protein Skimmer.  I'm thinking of plumbing from the sump through the chiller to the refugium, and then back into the sump and returning back into the tank.
<<Mmm, best to feed a refugium directly from the tank in my opinion...but your configuration will work>>
Do you think this would work well?
<<Not the "best" in my estimation as stated...but will "work">>
Thanks a lot for all your advice.
Bob Drews
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
<<Happy to share.  Eric Russell...Columbia, SC>>

Refugium & Algae Questions   1/27/07
First - Great website with loads of info.  I have recommended WWM to several up and coming aquarists and they love it too.  Now I did read up but I still have a questions about my new refugium setup.  I started the refugium because of a major green hair algae problem which Im now on a war campaign to conquer this PITA.  First, the stats...
*80-90lbs Live Sand, 70lbs Live Rock
*Blue (Hippo) Tang, 2 Blue-Green Chromis, Starlight Blenny, 2 Pajama Cardinals, clown
*several colonies of sea mats/button polyps, a massive green star polyp colony, medium torch coral, medium Goniopora, several mushroom polyps all over
1) 90 Gal Display with overflow
2) Dual 150w HQI, dual 50/50 actinics, dual 10k white and lunar LED
3) ProClear 150 Sump
-Bio Balls removed
-Seaclone Skimmer hanging off rear edge of first chamber (going to upgrade to AquaC very very soon)
<You'll appreciate the difference>
-Mag 9.5 off side of last chamber as Main Return
-Mag 3 inside last chamber feeding U/V, Denitrate, Carbon and PhosGuard media all inside individual "Nautilus Phos-reactors" and then returns back into first chamber of sump (flow rate at approx 100gph with head)
-Mag 5 inside first chamber feeding refugium (flow rate at approx 180gph with head)
4) 20 Gal Refugium (actual refugium between baffles is approx 8-10 Gal) -3-4" Kent Biosediment
-Handful of Caulerpa steadily growing now for 1 week this weekend -One 50/50, and one 10k white at opposite schedule to main lights
5) Coralife Calcium Reactor with C02 injection located out of sump dripping effluent into last chamber
-------------------------------------------------------
Q1) Everywhere I read about flow rates to refugiums it seems to be geared towards if the refugium is the main sump.
<Mmm, not everywhere>
In my case, it is a separate tank in which I have learned that it should be slower than the main sump.
<Yes>
  But what should the flow rate be?  I have a ball valve to adjust it but I am not sure how fast to set it.
<About 3-5 times volume per hour is about right>
Q2) Other than the skimmer, is there anything about the above setup that should be adjusted or is there anything out of the ordinary that you think I should change?
<Mmm, not as far as I see... With the exception of trading out the Caulerpa for maybe a Chaetomorpha or Gracilaria species>
Q3) On top of hand removal of all the algae, addition of a refugium, shortened main lighting schedule, thoroughly cleaned filters, etc...... should I tee off my C02 injection system and provide C02 to the
refugium so that the Caulerpa can grow faster and consume more nutrients?
Or is injecting C02 for plant growth really only for freshwater?
<Carbon dioxide injection can be provided (during metabolically active light hours) but I would not likely do this... enough of this essential nutrient will make its way there>
Q4) I'm currently looking for a Convict Tang to clean up the remaining algae and maintain future control with this herbivore but is there any other animal I can add that will attribute to algae control that is reef safe and compatible with my inhabitants?
<Mmm, yes... quite a few. A Salarias or Atrosalarias Blenny would be my first choices here... though the existing Blenny may prove too territorial... best to read on WWM re your choices: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algeatrcontfaqs.htm
and the linked files above...>
I've also recently purchased a Lettuce Nudibranch which appears to be hard at work but how much can they really consume?
<Mmm, not this much>
Nudibranchs usually die after some time without food so I don't want to stock them and then die off once the algae is reduced.
<One can only hope in these circumstances>
Q5) Tiny bubbles are getting into the refugium chamber - is this going to be a problem?  Should I make adjustments to eliminate these bubbles?
<Only time can tell if this will prove problematical... if the bubbles are staying there... I would not be concerned>
Thank You,
Christopher L. Mercer
<Bob Fenner>

Refugium Design/Pump Selection - 12/13/06
Hello,
<<Howdy>>
I am first of all very impressed with the quality of information on your web site.
<<Ah, thank you for this...is a collective effort>>
I have a 125g setup with some LR and crushed coral bed.  It's been up now for about 10 years with a wet/dry filter.
<<I see>>
The main problem with the tank is many scratches in the glass.
<<Not uncommon...especially for a tank this age>>
I am planning on a new 125g or 165g display tank and use the scratched 125 as a refugium in the basement below the display tank.
<<Sounds great>>
The display tank is built into a floor to ceiling wall open on three sides with only one of the short ends available for plumbing.
<<I have a similar floor to ceiling installation, but my display is only viewable from two sides>>
I want to have the new tank drilled to set up a couple of overflow boxes to drain to the refugium below.
<<A fine idea...but you may want to have one drain go to the skimmer/skimmer chamber>>
Any recommendation on hole-size and the type of return pump that can handle about a 10 foot rise to the display tank.
<<Mmm, yes...nominal 1.5" bulkheads, with 2" bulkheads being better.  As for pumps, the larger Iwaki pumps or the GRI-520 should serve well...if you want to go with a submersible pump I've found the large Mag-Drive pumps to be good performers, even though it will take a larger-rated pump to move the same amount of water as the previously mentioned external pumps>>
I am going to have a DSB in the display and refugium.
<<Ok>>
The layout for the refugium will have the tank water enter into an area adjacent the return sump box; each box would be about 12" x 9".  I would have a protein skimmer in the 1st box and divert the water thru a Y as needed to the return box to adjust the flow over the DSB.  The remaining water would flow thru some baffles and over the DSB.  I would like to split the tank the long way down the center so the water would flow over the bed and make a 180 degree turn to head back to the return box and be pumped back up to the display tank.  I would be creating a channel approximately 9" wide x 10 feet long x a depth I haven't determined yet.
<<Mmm, you can do this...but I don't see an advantage to this over installing the DSB the width of the tank and placing the return chamber at the far end.  Any gain in "contact time" you think this will provide is negated by the reduced volume of the bed...in my opinion>>
This is a project that I have plenty of time for and would greatly appreciate your comments.
Thank You
Dennis
<<Your basic concept is fine...feel free to write back and bounce thoughts/ideas off me if you wish.  Be chatting, Eric Russell>>

Refugium plumbing
I have a 50 gal reef tank with a 10 gal. sump below.  All of my filtration happens at the sump.   Water is pumped from the sump into the main tank with a 650 gph pump.  Anyway, I want to add a refugium, to supply my mandarin with copepods as well as add algae for nitrate filtration and to feed my hippo tang,
<Needs more room than this>
etc.  I want to maintain the sump as is, if possible, so I would like to use the closet behind the aquarium and create a gravity fed refugium.  My biggest problem is, I live in Florida and have a lot of power outages.
<Yikes>
  Right now, if the power goes out, my sump fills up to about 2 inches below the top.
<Good... much better than above...>
When it goes back on, everything automatically restarts and goes back to the way it was prior to the outage.  I don't want to impact the overflow amount of water the sump takes on when the power goes out.
<You are wise to have this consideration here, now>
My thought is to pump directly from the main tank into the refugium, and drill an overflow in the refugium, about 1" below the top level, that would be of sufficient size to balance the refugium water at that level at all times to that level.  That way, if the power goes out, or if either pump fails, it would not drain below that point and impact the water levels of the sump or main tank.
<Yes, a workable plan>
Would this be a recommended way to go about doing this, or do you have another inexpensive suggestion.  I really would appreciate your advice, prior to tackling this project.  Thank you very much.
Michelle
<The only item I'd like to add, is to test for where the water now will "settle" in the sump given a power outage, and mark the level on the sump at the "powered on" position to remind you never to fill the tank/s beyond this. Bob Fenner>

Re: Sump Design  11/12/06
//The refugium would hold roughly 20 gallons of water.
Then I have the 5-inch baffle simply to spates the sand from the return pump.  The small return section would be 4.75 inches long; however, with the refugium it would be 28.75 inches long, thus holding 23 gallons of water.  I would need to run 500 gallons per hour through this sump in order to power my skimmer. <Mmm, this is a bunch, perhaps too much flow/turnover through the refugium itself>//
After some adjusting I was able to get the fuge to hold 23 gallons of water :)  For the return, maybe it would be beneficial to T some of the return with a gate valve back to the input line of the skimmer, thus slowing the return back to the tank (I think)...
<A good modification. You only want a handful to ten times volume flow through a given refugium per hour. Bob Fenner>
"Do not demand what you cannot take by force."
<Mmm, western ethic... I say "Do not demand what is not yours to accept responsibility for">

Air Stone in a Refugium? - 10/13/06
Hey Crew,
<<Hey Mike!>>
Thanks for your hard work.
<<A pleasure to share>>
I built a refugium, but the design causes the surface of the macroalgae compartment to stagnate and I'm getting a pretty ugly scum layer which I think is largely Cyanobacteria.
<<Hmm...okay>>
The Remora skimmer is in the first compartment and the problem is in the second compartment.  Would there be any problem in putting an air stone in the macroalgae compartment to cause surface movement/oxygenation in there?
<<You could, but a small power head would be more beneficial/provide more water movement...lack of water movement is likely the cause of the Cyano>>
My theory is that as well as changing conditions to slow Cyanobacteria growth, this would stir the junk at the surface into circulation so that it will eventually get to and be removed by the protein skimmer.  I'm just wondering if this would have some ill effect on my system/refugium that I haven't thought of.
<<The air stone will create loads of spray/salt creep...best to use the power head...and don't be concerned about "chewing up" your plankton...is an overrated concern>>
One guy at the LFS said he thought it was a good idea, another said that stagnation in a fuge was a good thing and that I should leave it alone.
<<Mmm, no...I don't suggest stagnation here.  Some refugium designs/methodologies utilize "slow flow", but never "stagnation">>
The thing is, I've designed mine to be a "display" refugium (something like the picture in Mr. Fenner's book with the mangrove and shaving brushes, etc), so I want it to look fairly clean.
<<I see>>
I also have some macros growing that I haven't been able to ID on your FAQs.  Any ideas on a good site to go to see some pictures and descriptions of macros?
Thanks,
Mike
<<Go to algaebase.org (http://www.algaebase.org/)...once there, click on the logo at the upper-left corner and images will appear/change as you click.  Once you see something that looks like what you have, click on the image to see the name...you can then use the name to do a genus/species search for more information.  Regards, EricR>>

Need help with refugium flow rate  9/28/06
Dear WWM Crew,
I am setting up my first tank with a sump/refugium and am having lot of difficulty choosing a return pump.
<Have you read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugpumpfaqs.htm
and the linked files...>
  I have a custom sump/refugium being built.  It is 36x20x20.  The refugium section is only 12x20.  The water level will be kept between 11 and 14 inches making the refugium hold only a maximum of 14.5 gallons.  In my sump I also have an ETSS 800 skimmer powered by a BlueLine 55HD pump.  I would like to also use a BlueLine for my return pump as well.  The problem I am having is since the refugium is so small, what size pump should I use for the return.
<I would by-pass the refugium itself for much of the circulated water...>
The manufacturer of the sump told me it could handle 1080 GPH.  That seemed very high to me.
<Will be less... but you still don't want all of this to go through the refugium per hour>
I was considering running a BlueLine 30HD (590GPH at zero feet) or 40HD (790 GPH at zero feet) as a return pump.  I did not know if these pumps would be sufficient for my tank circulation, or if they might still be too powerful for my refugium.
<The smaller flow rate pumps could work, but I'd still bypass...>
It should also be noted that I will have 4 Tunze 6000’s (1850 GPH per powerhead) in my tank as well for additional circulation.
<Ahhh! Then I would just use the smallest pump here, and be prepared to "cut in" a restrictor (a ball valve, all plastic) should the flow be too much>
  My main concern was how much water should be passing through my sump/refugium for maximum nitrate removal?  Any help on this matter would be GREATLY appreciated.
Sincerely,
Lou       
<A handful of volumes per hour is about optimal... as you'll find in reading... RMF>

Re: Need help with flow rate  9/29/06
Thank-you VERY much for the quick reply.  I have read the links below.  The problem with my sump set up is that the first compartment is the intake, the second is the refuge, and then the third is the return so I cannot split the drains in order to work effectively.
<Mmm, stop! Think about this... a T at the return point to the first compartment... with two valves... so you can regulate how much of the return water goes to the first compartment... and the rest over to the third directly... bypassing the second/refugium>
The way the sump is designed, the flow must go through all three compartments.  With my head loss, I figured the BlueLine 30HD would provide approximately 420-460 GPH (2.3x – 2.5x per hour) and the BlueLine 40 HD would provide approximately 620-700 GPH (3.4x – 3.8x per hour).
<Mmm, considerably less (flow) than this... there's turns and induced drag to consider...>
The sump itself will hold on average 40 gallons.  To maximize nitrate removal, will the
420-460 GPH be efficient, or should I in fact go with 620-700 GPH.
<The lower... there is no real value in having more and more flow through the NNR area>
I realize that pushing 620 GPH might be too much for a 14 gallon refugium, but I am not sure the 420 GPH would be enough turnover for the sump.
<Is, would be>
  I am also unsure how important it is to match the return pump to the skimmer output,
<Mmm, nah>
as I have heard conflicting reports.  Nitrate removal is my main concern here.  Once again, thanks for any input…
Lou
<Keep reading Lou... and cogitating furiously... you're "getting there". BobF>

Plumbing for a refugium & return manifold in 58 gal reef  - 09/14/06
Brent here.  Hope all the crew is doing well!  Basic background.  58 gal 36lx18,5wx21"h Tank.  Intended use:  Nice family project for my son, daughter and me.  My wife just shakes her head at our willingness to research, learn and spend bucket loads of money.  I'd like to point out that my 8 year old daughter is probably more enthused than me, and spends a lot of time searching the net for reef fish, inverts, and ideas to help the project out.
<Well worth the investment all the way around>
  She has even created her own little reef book complete with the fish, inverts and corals that she would like, noting common name, species, a little bit about the species, care, feeding etc along with a photo.  Beats shopping or playing with boys as she says!
<Oh yes!>
Anyway I digress.  Back to the issue at hand.  Reef display with some LPS and some soft corals,  mating pair of Ocellaris Perculas, Lawnmower Blenny, Royal Gramma, Six Line Wrasse, and a Flameback Angle added last, approximately 1 year after setup.  T5 - 6x39 watt hood.  I have a couple of general questions for completing the plumbing on my 58 gallon, sump and possible closed loop manifold.  Just working to fine tune the details and wanted to get your input.  58 has the corner megaflow overflow built in.  Wondering which manifold kit is better the Durso or the megaflow kit?
<Mmm, the former IMO/E>
   Megaflow kit has the return pipe and end fitting for the in-let and appears to be more complete with the perforated critter block for the inlet.
<Can get, thread in such a screen yourself...>
I have a CPR Large HOT refugium with maxi-jet 1200 that will incorporate MM with Chaeto and the CPR CF light unit. Lighting cycle in the CPR refugium to be on 24/7.  Although I'm not married to this photo cycle.
<I would go with an overlapping RDP myself... Chaetomorpha should not be illuminated continuously>
  I believe the CF is 19 watt?   I'm planning a 30lx14wx16 high sump/refugium with  4" DSB, sugar fine aragonite, a small amount of live rock to seed and Chaetomorpha algae with CF lighting 20 watt +/-.  Lighting to cycle in the sump/refugium off cycle from the display. I believe the actual refugium gallonage will be around 10 gallons, not including the 4" sand bed. I also have a CPR BakPak skimmer unit which I intend to have running full time.  I am planning to use a mag-drive pump, external, to handle the return which will simply be plumbed back up to the megaflow inlet pipe nozzle.  Just not sure if I should use the mag-drive 5 or 7 here?
<Mmm... if it were me/mine, the 5>
   I am also thinking of incorporating a mag 5 or 7 drive, internal, and creating either a manifold return closed loop with squid on 2 outlets or trying to incorporate Anthony's water return manifold http://wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm?
<A good plan. The seven here>
  Your thoughts and insight is well appreciated.  And thank you all for such a great site and willingness to help!
<An enlivening pleasure to share. Bob Fenner>

Re: Plumbing for a refugium & return manifold in 58 gal reef. Not quite ready  9/15/06
Bob and crew, thanks for the quick reply!  In re-thinking just slightly.  I am contemplating using Durso overflows for both the 1" and 1/2" down to a sump set up to handle both overflow in 1" in the main sump and 1/2" to the refugium part with both overflowing baffles into a center return area (not using the 1/2" for the return) .
<Let's take each of these items one at a time... I strongly encourage you to do a bit more delving... You (assuredly) do NOT want this small diameter overflow lines... too little volume, intermittent siphoning effects... and gurgling noise the likes of which even the Jolly Green Giant and a massive bottle of Listerine can produce!!! Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dursopipefaqs.htm
and the linked files above...>
I can then place a pump external if I box into the return area to allow the pump to be exterior or place pump inside (although heat trans may be an issue)?  
<May be... depends largely on the make, model... and size/volume-flow of pump used...>
In incorporating both the 1" and 1/2" for overflows I can return back with a mag-drive 9.5 or 12?
<Not necessary... this pump can/will "out pump" more than these lines can/could deliver... My friend... please... read...>
and was thinking of utilizing the SQWD for alternating return current with 2 ever-tank-directable nozzles about 1" below the water surface.  Does this seem best to incorporate the overflow using the 2 drains and return over the top or separate as I noted in my design before.
<Mmm, no... better to use one line of good/decent diameter and all-plastic valves to regulate flow... overflows w/o will prove to be frustrating...>
Although the combined, rearranged sump will allow the extra flow, this will provide for a considerably smaller refugium.  Your thoughts?
<You need... to read. Bob Fenner>

Refugium plumbing   8/30/06
Hey everyone!
<Hello Jen... BobF, visiting in Belmar NJ...>
I have a question - possibly naive one, but hey.  Everyone has to learn.  I have a reef nano tank - 12 gals w/ a refugium added below (10 gal) to try and add more volume of water to counteract the fact that the system is small.
<Good idea, practice>
It is set up pretty much the same as one of the diagrams on WWM.  There are two pumps, one on the show tank, one below in the ref.  PVC plumbing + normal bendable hose and ball valves make up the system.  The first problem seems to be a siphon problem whenever the power goes off or the pump shuts down, etc.
<Need to insert a "tee", otherwise a vacuum breaker...>
The second is that it is EXTREMELY hard to get and KEEP the water levels stable.
<Mmmm....>
There is just too much variation and we're bi-weekly adjusting the flow again.  My husband wants to add possibly gate valves instead of the ball valves and maybe even some floats to automatically control the pumps and water flow.
<... You're not pumping the water back and forth I hope/trust>
  My question is - I know you're always suppose to try and use PVC and other inert substances that will not change the water chemistry.  But can any of these components have brass or stainless steel parts in them?
<Best not to>
It seems that this would greatly add to our control of the system, but I wasn't sure if the metal would be too detrimental to the system.
<Oh yes... and the livestock>
Thank you much,
Jennifer
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/refugpumpfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Refugiums...Water Flow  8/16/06
Hi,
<Hello Linda>
I have a new 75 gallon reef tank in my living room with a sump/refugium located in a 55 gallon aquarium in the basement.  Originally, both the water
coming down into the downstairs aquarium/filter from the main tank & the water going up from the this downstairs aquarium into the main tank were
both located in the sump part.  Water was then pumped from the sump into the refugium and the refugium created a waterfall back into the sump.
Yesterday, a service moved the pipe with the water coming down out of the sump part and into the refugium, keeping the uptake water in the sump part.
The water from the pipe hits a Tupper ware bowl with rocks in it so as to prevent the water from stirring up the sand on the bottom of the refugium.
Is this correct?
<Yes, I would want the tank water visiting the refugium first.  This way more nutrients will be consumed by refugium dwellers.>
Should the water be going down from the main tank into the refugium or into the sump part of the downstairs aquarium for the proper circulation?  Please advised.  I'm confused when the experts disagree.
<I would prefer this set-up over what you had.>
Thanks, Linda
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>

Help with a query, please... Pump sel. for a refugium/sump    8/6/06
Hi fellow crew members,
This query ended up in my inbox because it is seahorse related however part of it is asking for a sump pump recommendation and I
have never had a sump or refugium so I am at a bit of a loss. I know the head pressure has to be taken into consideration but I have no
idea about how to figure it out.
I am fine answering most of it.... if anyone can recommend a quiet brand pump. The pump will be in his sump and is for a 75g tank on a
30" tall stand.
As for how much flow the horses can deal with the most current (that wasn't an intentional play on words it just sort of slipped in
there)  thinking is that it a good deal more than the old 3 to 5x the tank volume that was previously recommend. Those tanks were very
under circulated and had all sorts of problems. As long as the horses have some quiet places to get out of the current, are not being
blasted from one side of the tank to the other and have a quiet place to eat (feeding stations are great) so their food is not being blown
all over the tank, they do quite well and can often be found playing in the current.
Any pump suggestions would be greatly appreciated so I can pass it on in my reply. Something adjustable would be ideal so it could be
turned down a bit if it was to much.
Thanks so much,
Leslie
Hi Leslie,
You don't mention the size/type overflow on the tank, so assuming a 1" gravity drain I think a MAG-7 pump with a gate-valve plumbed on the output
side should work fine.  The size/type overflow really determines the amount of flow and the gate-valve will allow the hobbyist to temper that flow as
needed; if for instance the tank has a smaller/less efficient overflow than assumed.  In fact, at that head height the MAG-7 may even produce "more"
flow than a single 1" gravity drain will handle easily/quietly, but it's my opinion it's best to go with a slightly larger than needed pump to allow for
the increased resistance/head-loss as the bio-film builds in the plumbing lines and use the inline gate-valve to make adjustments to suit.  If the
Mag-Drive pump is not available/wanted, then any good submersible pump with a flow rate of 600-700 gph "before" head-loss should serve fine.  HTH- Eric

Water Flow Through Hang-On Refugium 06/09/06
Well I've read through lots of threads on this wonderful site and have come close to finding the answer I need but not quite.  So I am forced to bother you with yet another question.
<<No worries mate...ask away>>
I have a CPR 24" hang-on fuge with the small pump it came with.  This fuge has a couple 2 or 3 baffles that keep water flow going slow through the fuge.
<<Mmm, not really slow...but more diffused>>
I am battling major Cyano in there while trying to rear Chaetomorpha (sp?)
<<Chaetomorpha>>
I've read on wetwebmedia.com to simply increase the water flow.
<<Sometimes helps, yes...possible detritus accumulation>>
But I have heard from a knowledgeable fella at my local fish store who has a successful reef of his own that because of the baffling setup in these 'fuges, even with upgrading to faster flow, she still goes through slowly.
<<I don't totally agree.  The baffles will diffuse the flow, but they won't "restrict" the flow any more than if you were flowing the water through a pipe/round hole with the same void space.  As long as you don't exceed the “total volume" of water the baffles can handle/process, you can likely implement an increase.  Be sure to test carefully/maybe install a valve to temper flow if you install a larger/more powerful pump>>
In order to rid the Cyano, we need more flow.  Shall I break off the baffles or will a larger pump actually do the trick?
<<I'd try the larger pump>>
Seems to me, logically, unless you have a powerhead blowing at something directly, you won't get proper water flow strong enough to actually "blow" the nuisance algae off surfaces.
<<In the small hang-on device you describe...likely true.  So why not add a powerhead to the refugium chamber?>>
What are your thoughts?
<<As stated>>
Thanks for the clarification,
Jason
<<Hope it is useful.  EricR>>

Refugiums ... flow, DSB   6/1/06
Hello Sir or Ma'am
<James today>
I have a question that has not seemed to have been asked (I have looked for the past 3 days for the answer) I am setting up a 35 gallon refugium for my 200 gallon reef tank. My tank is about 3 weeks old (if that is of any interest or relevance). I am planning on attaching a Maxi-Jet 1200 or Mag 3.5 for flow. I will be pumping up the water from the sump and then draining it back into it. My question is this: I would like to run a fuge with Chaetomorpha and an 8 inch DSB. I will be running a reverse lighting schedule. I am wondering if that flow will either be too much for the Chaeto or too little to properly provide aeration for the DSB. I understand, per Bob F., that he likes only a little flow over Chaetomorpha and doesn't buy into tumbling it. I also would like some tips for maintaining a DSB other then "stirring" it lightly once a month and adding a inch or so a year.
<Matt do read here and related links above on both sites.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/refugium.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/deepsandbeds.htm
Thanks again
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Matt

Refugium intake and outtake ... design  - 5/18/2006
Hello WWMCrew !!
<Esteban>
First off, let me say that any time I have a question or need to research something before I buy it - I go to your site.  It's comforting to know that there is information on your website about ANYTHING I ever need to know.  With that being said, why the need to even ask a question?
<Heee heeee!>
Well, my question has a specific answer that is a hybrid of the WWM information.  Anyway.  I have a 250 gallon saltwater tank that currently has 150lbs of live rock (soon to be 250).  Two overflows on the tank.  A sump with sock filtration
<Very useful... where "kept up with">
and an Iwaki 100 running into a Reefconcept (local brand) skimmer.  Now, I want to setup a refugium in order to lower my eventual nitrates.  
Questions:
1.) Should I get a 55gallon or 75 gallon aquarium (each having one overflow) as my refugium?
<"The bigger the better">
2.)Will only having one overflow that returns refugium water to the main sump (via gravity) negate the effect of 20 more water gallons I would have from purchasing a larger 75 gallon aquarium?  In other words, will a bigger tank just bottleneck itself with only one overflow return?
<Mmm, nope>
3.) Will I still have to make 10% water changes every week even with these lower nitrate levels?  Or can I do 5% every week or 10% every two weeks?
<You'll see, be able to judge>
Thank you in advance so much !
Ramon
<Thank you for sharing. Bob Fenner>

Refugium, Pump, and Overflow Sizing - 05/17/06
Hi,
<<Hello!>>
Have been doing much research on reef tanks, mostly on the web and came across your site, what a find, very impressive.
<<Thank you>>
I just bought a 100 gal DAS reef tank.  It's got a single 1-1/2 inch sump drain in a corner.  I wanted to put the large CPR Aquafuge under it and use an external 1000 GPH pump for circulation with a SCWD wavemaker.
<<Mmm, which model Aquafuge?  Unless you're talking about the "Aquafuge Pro" it is too small/not really suited to this application.  It would be better/cheaper to employ a small aquarium (20g/29g) for this>>
My questions are - 1) Is the pump too big for the drain?
<<My opinion?...yes.  Most overflow "calculators" will tell you you can get 1200/1300 gph from a 1.5" drain.  And under "ideal" conditions maybe so...along with lots of noise and continuing fuss.  But tank conditions are rarely ideal...plumbing is not always optimized...and there's the fact the plumbing will slowly become more restricted from mineral/biological buildup.  I think it is much less problematic to "tune" your overflows when you only try to push "half" the rated flow.  That leaves you in this instance with a pump that will push 650 gph or less (after determining/calculating head loss) to the overflow>>
2) Is the refugium big enough?
<<Depends on the model>>
3) Is 1000 GPH too much flow through the refugium & if so how would you control it separately?
<<With a smaller pump...perhaps a Mag-Drive 9.5>>
And lastly;  4) Is the skimmer that comes with the CPR any good?
<<I think you will be disappointed.  I would replace this...look to ASM, AquaC, Euro-Reef, others...>>
Thanks in advance for any help.
<<Very Welcome, EricR>>

Refugium plumbing question   4/18/06
Hi Crew-
<Ed>
I'm a bit confused about the best way to plumb a refugium, sump and closed circuit return loop.
<Lots posted re on WWM... and lots to consider... many "variations" on themes...>
I'm planning on setting up a 90 G Oceanic Systems "Tech Series" Tank with two return overflows and two Megaflow accessory kits.  The system will be  
designed to ultimately house SPS, LPS, Clams, Mandarin dragonets and  Wrasses.
<Not altogether compatible as you're likely aware>
To ensure that all are well fed I would like to run a RDP  vegetable refugium with Chaetomorpha macroalgae and a 4" DSB so that I can grow  pods.
Reef Invertebrates, Calfo/Fenner has an illustration  for a Downstream Refugium on Page 53.  If I understand correctly  the refugium should have a water
flow of 5 to 10 times tank turnover.  This  would be significantly lower than the 14 time turnover I had planned for the  Calfo designed Closed Loop
illustrated on the WetWeb site.
How can I marry these two seemingly contrary requirements?
<Two separate pumps, sets of plumbing... Bob Fenner>
Many thanks,
Ed

Re: Refugium, closed manifold recirc. plumbing question, reef stkg.  - 04/19/06
Dear Bob:
<Ed>
Thanks for your personal reply.  Perhaps I should have been more  specific in my selection of livestock.  It was my understanding that SPS,  Clams and a
limited number of well chosen LPS corals could be housed together  and that Mandarin dragonets and Rainbow/Flasher/Fairy  wrasses were  compatible. Am I wrong?
<Mmm, somewhat right and wrong... there are always induced problems with the mix of any/all cnidarian species. Some much more grievous than others, and steps that can/have to be taken to alleviate these iatrogenic difficulties. Many LPS (an entirely arbitrary designation btw for many purposes), will consume dragonets... some can/will sting tridacnids...>
I've been reading everything I could on WetWeb and other sources on  fuges but can't seem to find a scheme for plumbing these two separately.
<Mmm, take them "one at a time"... entirely separate pumps, plumbing for each... You don't want to tie them together>
I  don't expect you to do my work for me but if you are aware of a schematic for  such a system I would appreciate being directed to it.
Complex plumbing issues are beyond my present level of  expertise.
As always I greatly appreciate your work.
Best regards,
Ed
<Please peruse here: http://wetwebmedia.com/marsetupindex2.htm
Take your time, record good notes... read the files as they appear of interest, from the top, front to the bottom, right... down and across... The indices have been arranged by me in this order with purpose. Bob Fenner>

Refugium Confusion (Installation/Methodology) - 04/16/06
Hi,
<<Howdy>>
I have an established 200 gallon acrylic reef aquarium that has a Tunze filtration system built on a rail system that sits on top of the tank.
<<Deja Vu...I think I've been here before <G>...EricR here again>>
The system includes a protein skimmer, also on top of the tank.
<<Yes, typical for this manufacturer/method of employment>>
The only other openings are the large access ports.
<<Indeed...and typical of an acrylic tank>>
There is 6" of acrylic between port and side.  Cannot easily access back of tank because of how the Tunze system sits.
<<I understand>>
We want to add a refugium and have no idea how to make it happen.
<<Mmm...and no sump to work with either...you need to install a gravity drain (as outlined in the previous email) to the refugium and then pump water back up to the tank>>
We have our old 46 gal with a wet/dry and a 450gph return pump that we want to make our refugium.
<<Have you researched and decided which refugium methodology you wish to employ?  Mud? DSB? live rock rubble? lighted macro algae? A combination of these?>>
It would sit next to our main tank.
<<This is fine>>
Should it be higher or lower than the main tank?
<<Since you don't have a sump from which to pump water up to the refugium I would suggest placing the 'fuge lower than the display tank>>
After reading some of the FAQ's I am very confused as far as flow rates, and what size hole to drill and how many.
<<If you are only drilling to accommodate the refugium, then a 1" bulkhead will suffice with a 350-500 gph pump (MagDrive) for the return to the tank.  If you are can't/are not willing to put the return line through the tank hood to return the water through/over the top, you will need to install a second bulkhead for the return line>>
I am also not sure what bulkheads are.
<<Ah...a simple Google search re "aquarium bulkhead" can help much my friend: http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idProduct=FT1113   ... A bulkhead is a water-tight fitting placed in the "hole" you drill in the tank which then allows you to easily attach your plumbing lines/fittings.  Do be aware, a 1" bulkhead requires a 1 3/4" hole in the tank.  Another Google search re "DIY aquarium bulkhead installation" will yield many links to examples of same>>
I know what an overflow box is, but that is about it.
<<I suggest you do some more reading-up to get a better feel for what you are about to attempt.  Perhaps there is an aquarium club in your area you could contact for some "hands-on" help/advice...or if you have real doubts as to your knowledge/abilities, pay one of the local fish stores to come do the bulkhead installation (assuming one provides that type of service)>>
The Tunze system has an intake of 950GPH, protein skimmer 300gph, 3 powerheads add another 900gph.
<<All unrelated to the refugium>>
We are looking to upgrade to the Tunze stream system, which will add approx 3000gph.
<<These are great...use them myself>>
With all of this flow and filtration in the main tank, how important is flow through the refugium?
<<Flow through the refugium is slightly less important than flow in the tank. Try to achieve anywhere from 3x-10x the refugium's volume>>
What should it be?
<<Use a pump that provides from 150 - 500 gph>>
I was hoping to find a way to siphon water over to the refugium
i.e. overflow of some sort and use the return pump and plumbing we have on the wet/dry to push the water back to the main tank.
<<Oh, okay...didn't realize there was an external filter source involved.  It might be possible to tee off of the drain line (w/valve to control flow) for the wet/dry and run this line to the 'fuge, and have the refugium then drain in to the pump chamber of the wet/dry (You will still need to drill a hole in the refugium and install a bulkhead for a drain line...I don't recommend using a siphon overflow for this>>.
Is that realistic?
<<Possibly>>
I am very sorry for these novice descriptions, but I am not good with plumbing or drilling issues.
<<No worries mate...do try to get someone local (with experience re) over to have a look/help if at all possible>>
I know how to clean my tank and take care of my fish.  I would just like to take better care of them by adding a refugium.
<<Is a step forward...a very worthwhile addition>>
Thanks for your help,
Jeri
<<Please feel free to write back if you have some specific questions and I will try to explain further.  Regards, EricR>>

Refugium Plumbing/DSB - 04/15/06
Hi,
<<Hello>>
I have a 200 gallon reef aquarium.  It currently has a Tunze filtration system and Tunze protein skimmer that sit on a rail system along the top of the aquarium.  The 200 gallon has a 4-5" DSB with Aragamax sugar-sized sand.
<<Excellent>>
As you can imagine that is a lot of sand.
<<Mmm...yes...my 375 gallon tank has 950 lbs. of the stuff (Southdown)...with another 250 lbs. in the refugium>>
The way the tank is drilled or lack there of is making it difficult to plumb a refugium, but we will try anyway.
<<Ok>>
We have a 46 gallon tank with a wet/dry that we will turn into a refugium.
<<Ah, good>>
Can we use the sand from the main tank to fill the 46 gallon?  Will too much beneficial bacteria be killed in the move?
<<Bacteria, and other micro-/macro- life will be destroyed, yes.  Why not fill the refugium with dry sand with a "heavy seeding" from the sand in the display/other aquarist tanks?>>
Will it put undo stress on our fish?
<<Is a possible stressor to the whole system>>
I want to do whatever is going to benefit the fish.  So if that means leaving the main tank alone and buying new sand that is what
we will do.
<<Unless you're planning to remove the fish and "restart" this tank I would use new sand and seed it as mentioned.>>
We were thinking 8 - 10" sand bed in the 'fuge.
<<Sounds good to me...am a big fan of deep sand beds>>
We want whatever is going to help us with our nitrate issues.
<<I see>>
We usually have 20ppm and I want that down to 0.
<<Indeed, much to high for a reef system...but zero-nitrates is not necessarily good either.  For the benefit of your corals, a nitrate reading of about 3ppm can provide some much appreciated nutrient benefit>>
I figure the added filtration will help.
<<As in DSB?...yes>>
Our system is going to be very difficult to plumb the refugium. There is no place for an overflow box.
<<Can you lower the water a bit...drill a throughput high on the backside?>>
The access ports are the only openings and have a 6" gap to the side of the tank.
<<An acrylic tank then?  Will be quite easy to add some bulkheads>>
Plus we have a hood that covers the entire tank.  I posted to the WetWebMedia Chat Forum in hopes to get some suggestions.  Nothing
so far.  I even posted a diagram of what our tank looks like from the top.  Any ideas from you would be great.
<<Spend some time reading here (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbholesfaqs.htm) and researching among the linked threads.  I think your best option is to drop the water level in the tank a few inches and drill a/some holes through the back/side of the tank for bulkhead fittings.  My tank is a "in-wall" unit viewable from front and back...I drilled holes for 6 bulkheads through the end panels 1 3/4" inches from the top, which feed both my sump and refugium...it is do=able>>
Thank you, Jeri
<<Quite welcome.  Regards, EricR>>

Refugium Plumbing/Critter Transfer -  - 04/10/2006
WWM gang,
<<"Gang" member EricR here>>
I am in the process of setting up my 265 tank (i.e. - still designing and have nothing set up).
<<Ah yes...good times...>>
I have 4 overflow drains, 2 going in to a 30gal refugium that
then flows into the reservoir where the other two also drain.  This then holds the skimmer and is pumped back into the tank.
<<Mmm...I would plumb things so the refugium empties in the pump chamber, thus circumventing the skimmer as this will remove many "desirable elements" coming from the 'fuge>>
I'll have a closed-loop system also but that's not important (I think) to this.  My hope is to have tons of copepods so I can have my favorite fish (hopefully male and female pair of) Mandarin Dragonets.
<<Very "cool" little fish...but as much as a year or more down the road I guess you know>>
I will have a good amount of live rock and crushed coral (fine grade) in the tank, but I am trying to figure out if the copepods will get up to the tank from the Refugium w/this set up?
<<In deed they will, if you don't suck them all up in the skimmer...>>
I can still change the plumbing if I need to... Did I not think this through just right?
<<Consider my suggesting about avoiding the skimmer with the refugium effluent and you'll be fine.  The "best" configuration if you wish to tackle...would be to place the 'fuge "above" the display and allow it to gravity feed to the tank>>
Can I trap the copepods and set them free in the tank above?
<<Hmm...not sure how you would accomplish this just offhand...but not necessary in my opinion...they will get there.>>
Thanks,
<<Welcome, EricR>>

Filtration/Ecosystem Mud Filter/Pump Size  3/30/06
Hello,  <Hello Gerardo>
First of all, let me say thanks for your website. I am new to the saltwater hobby and your site has
been the best for answering from trivial to elaborate questions.
<We welcome you.>
I have a 60 Gallon FOWLR tank with a wet/dry sump. Overflow box is 600 g/hr, return pump is rated 900g/hr.
Last week I bought by accident <How can you buy something by accident?>
an Ecosystem Model 100 (24Wx8Hx8l) bare refugium (no pump, plumbing, etc).
After reading Ecosystem's site and your Mud filtering section, I am willing to try the Miracle Mud.
However, I don't know what kind of pump/circulation I need to buy in order to have it right at the refugium.
Do you have any suggestions?  <I'm not aware that they have a Model 100.  I'd contact Ecosystem at (714)543-4100.  Don't bother emailing, you may or may not get an answer and if you do it will be at least two weeks (personal experience).>
Thanks in advance for your help. <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Gerardo Frias

Set Up 2/Pumps   03/9/06
Kudos on a wonderful and information packed site! <Thank you.> I have a 120 gal. All-Glass dual overflow reef setup, and I want to go
to a larger downstream refugium because my ASM G-2 skimmer takes up a large footprint of the refugium area. I have purchased a 50gal breeder tank to make into the new refugium and am finding it very hard to find someone to drill a large enough hole in the glass for the pumps inlet supply. ( a Pondmaster MD-12 mag drive pump) My question is : Should I build an area within the glass tank out of acrylic to put the pump in ( with an inlet hole in the acrylic wall ), or should I submerse the mag drive pump in the refugium ? (with proper acrylic baffles of course) My gut tells me wall it in and keep it dry and out of the water supply. <I'd keep the pump out of the water if possible, less heat transfer into the water.>
Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work! <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Mike Hall
Refugium size    3/2/06
Dear Crew, <Jeff>
I need your help calculating size and flow rates for my refugium.  I have been reading all the faq's and can't get a definite answer.  My main tank is 210 gallons.  My refugium will be a 29 gallon with 12 gallons of actual "living" space with the rest taken up by baffles and extra space for pump shutdown.  I've also got a 10 gallon extra high that I plan to use exclusively to cultivate Chaetomorpha.  The two refugiums will be connected to each other to prevent any overflows.  The 10 gallon high will overflow into the return baffle in the 29 gallon refugium.  The system will be powered by a 1000 gph pump which should net about 700 gph due to discharge head.  I've plumbed the two containers so I can adjust the flow in either one.  Is the size of the refugium plus algae scrubber sufficient? <Yes>  What should be my target flow rate through each? <They are both in effect, refugiums tied together. I'd be looking at something like 150gph flow rate through the refugiums provided you are also going to be using a sump to handle the higher flow rate going into the display tank.>
Your help is much appreciated as always. <You're welcome, and the first query today with no spelling errors.  James (Salty Dog)>
Jeff

Refugium/Set Up  - 02/20/06
Sorry to keep bugging you guys, but it seems I can never find exactly the answer to my questions on the FAQ's.  I've refined my refugium idea below.  What I really want to know is how many gph should go thru the refugium?  When you mention 1800 gph  below, you do mean thru the main tank only? <I mean 1800 gph total flow rate including power heads if used through the main tank.> Seems 1800 gph thru the refugium would blow everything away. <Most definitely.  You will need to tee off and control flow through the refugium and the rest through the chamber after the refugium.>
Thanks again, <You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Jeff

Refugium Flow/Circulation - 02/11/06
Hello again!
<<Howdy!>>
I have another question for you guys/gals.
<<Alrighty>>
I currently use a Maxi-Jet 900 to feed my refugium.  The refugium is located above the main display.
<<Cool!>>
I have loosely calculated the flow to my refugium with a stop
watch and figured the flow to be around 125 gallons per hour to the fuge.
<<ok>>
This translates to around 4.3 turnovers of flow through the refugium (29 gallons).  The refugium has about 5.5 inches of fine sand and a large portion of Chaetomorpha algae.  I use a Maxi-Jet 600 for circulation inside the fuge.
<<Ah!  Very good.>>
The refugium returns water to the main display via a siphon type overflow.
<<I suggest you add a "second" siphon overflow for redundancy/safety.>>
  I have installed a float switch in the refugium in the (normally closed) configuration.  This stops the powerhead in the event of loss of siphon.  I have tested this set up and it works great.
<<Do keep an eye on it/keep the switch clean.>>
It is very easy to do and gives one peace of mind.
<<Sometimes falsely...>>
My question is in regard to the flow through the refugium.  Is 4.3 times the refugium an OK number or should I go higher/lower?
<<With the internal powerhead as you described I think you're "ok" but if the siphon overflow can handle it, a bit more flow may prove beneficial.>>
Since setting up the refugium my nitrates are much lower.
<<Just "one" of the benefits of employing a vegetable refugium.>>
Your thoughts on this would be very helpful.  Thanks again.
<<Regards, EricR>>

Re: refugiums) ... pb   2/9/06
Hello again,
Not sure I am understanding how to control the flow within the refugium.  According to your diagram in 'get thee to a refugium', a gravity flow rate of 1200 gph (max)
<In this/an example>
is drained into the sump.  Water is first treated by the skimmer and then flows through baffles (is this what slows the flow rate down through the refugium?),
<Mmm, no>
into the refugium, through another set of baffles, and out the return pump.  The problem I have is that I have a mag drive 2400 which will return water to two overflow boxes (1" returns predrilled).
<... these won't be able to accommodate this pump/flow>
The 2 drains will be providing more flow than what is recommended by the setup described in the article.
<Not likely>
Just trying to get my head around all this.  If I can use a single tank to house everything that would be great.  Need to understand how to maintain a 500-625 gph (recommended 4-5 times the main tank size) through the refugium.  With the mag 24 is it possible to have everything in a single tank sump/refugium system?
thanks again,
matt
<If one had/has a pump of "over-capacity", some flow might be redirected to the first area of the sump... or it might be throttled down (on the discharge side, usually with a gate valve)... but ideally a "just right sized" pump is used or its flow/pressure used for more than recirculation through the refugium (like another sump, closed loop, skimmer, contactor...). Please... read on WWM re refugium design, plumbing. Bob Fenner>

Plumbing a fuge in a sump    1/25/06
Hi, today's crew answer person!
   <Howdy Querier>
  I've looked up all the questions that have been answered on this subject, and I still haven't quite found the exact scenario describing my dilemma. I just bought a complete 100 gal. tank setup (the last anniversary gift I'll be getting for the next 10yrs!). I ran a 40gl fuge on my 55gl reef last time, which was skimmed first, then flowed through to the main tank. Now, for the first time, I am working with a sump design that had a bio-ball chamber. I've already removed them and replaced it with a big pad of Chaeto w/o a DSB (lighted of course), which is watered by an overflow box, then the next chamber holds both the PS and the return pump together (a rather odd design IMO).
<Mine too>
The fuge water flows into the chamber where some of the water is skimmed or is pumped right back to the tank. My water parameters are all fine. OK, my questions are: 1. Do I have to switch the placement of the PS and Chaeto, to get any benefit from a fuge?
<Would help>
2. Can the critters from the fuge survive going through the PS?
<Some to most, yes>
3. Do I need to add live rock and a DSB to the fuge chamber if I do switch them, there's already a 5" DSB in the tank)?.
<Not necessarily, no. Better to have LR in the main tank here>
I'm doing a "semi-reef" this time (if there is such a thing), with mainly inverts instead of corals. Thanks for the help.
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
 

How much flow should I have going through a refugium?   1/20/06
<Entirely contingent on the life taking refuge there... but, in general, somewhat less than the main tank, if possible. Do read through the refugium FAQs on WWM. Best regards, John.>

Custom refugium
WWM crew,
I have a 75 gallon reef tank that has been running for about 8 months now. It houses a black saddle back clown, purple tang, tail spot blenny, and
blue devil damsel.  It also has about a 2 inch sand bed and 60lbs of live rock.  Since my tank is not drilled and I've heard of the headaches
associated with hang on overflows, I will resort to building my own refugium that will sit next to the tank.  I want the refugium to be about
25 gallons and I was hoping I could use my Eheim 1260 pump about 602gph). Will this be too much circulation in the refugium and will it hinder
pod/macroalgae growth?
<I would use a smaller pump... or...>
As for the return on the refugium, I want to acheive the best circulation possible, to benefit nearby hard corals.
<The extra flow can be diverted to and around your main tank via a tee, two valves...>
  What kind of attachment would you recommend for the return tubing?
Thanks,
Tim Jernberg
<...? I would rely on gravity, a large diameter through-put in the refugium, a difference in height... Bob Fenner>

Refugium setup 10/18/05
Let me say first of all that I am an avid reader of your site, you have given me the answers that no one else can. I am also waiting for my copy of the Conscientious Marine Aquarist, can't wait to read it. 
<Thank you> 
Anyway, on to business. I have not been able to find an answer to this question in particular, although I think it may be a bit of an unusual situation. I have a 10 gallon aquarium set up as a refugium of sorts, where I have snails, brittle stars, macroalgae, no fish, no corals, with an Eclipse hood on it, but it is not connected in any way to my 46 gallon display tank. I mostly use the macroalgae to feed my tang (who loves it!). 
I would like to be able to connect it to the main tank, because I don't want to buy a separate new refugium and run the risk of losing any of the critters in the move. There is a ledge behind the main tank, about level with the top of the main tank, where the 10 gal. tank would fit perfectly. 
The question is, how to plumb. I was thinking of a powerhead in the main tank to pump water into the refugium, and putting an overflow box for the gravity return into the main tank. It would be hard to incorporate the filter on the main tank, as it is a Magnum 350 with BioWheels, and I don't think by the time I teed into that line, there would be enough power from that filter to matter. 
I got the rest of my answers from your site, i.e. lighting, etc., but this one's scary. Also, do you think I could use tank dividers for baffles instead of dealing with Plexiglas and adhesive? 
<Sure>
I saw the inside components to turn a tank into a refugium, but the adhesive isn't safe for the critters, is it? 
<You would have to use one of the underwater epoxies if you didn't want to empty the tank. Don't know what adhesive you are referring to.> 
I appreciate any advice you could give me in this regard, and again, thank you for a most informative site!! 
<Elise, the bad point about an overflow in your refugium is that if you lost the siphon, the pump feeding water into it would cause quite a mess. If it were me, I'd empty the contents of the refugium into a Rubbermaid container large enough to accommodate it and then have the tank drilled for a one inch bulkhead fitting near the top to use as your drain into the display tank. 
All you need do then is to ensure the powerhead isn't pumping more water than the bulkhead return can handle. This is a safe worry free set-up. You need not worry about losing your critters, if you lost some it would be negligible. James (Salty Dog> 

Airlift-only return from refugium to display tank ?  8/16/05
Hello Crew...
<John>
Planning a re-entry into marine aquaria (successfully kept a pair of clowns
alive for two years 77-79 back in the 'dark ages' of saltwater aquaria) and
boy howdy !  Things sure have changed.
<I'll say!>
Based on my recent high-intensity research I have made some preliminary selections:
150 gallon display tank with 5 inch deep live sand bed.  Some live
rock.  Primarily interested in inverts but I am sure SWMBO will
also want to see a couple of fish swimming around.
Two 1500 gph circulation pumps taking water from the
display tank and immediately returning it through a closed
loop manifold mounted under the top rim of the tank.  Goal is
to process 25-30 times the tank volume/hour to simulate real
reef conditions.
40 gallon sump/Refugium mounted under the display tank (and
hidden for aesthetic reasons fed by a pair of 1 inch overflow tubes.
<Stop! I'd make these at least 1.5">
Split design with sump for skimmer, deep sand bed and macro
algae (NOT Caulerpa).  Also some live rock here for habitat but
it is hopefully a no-predator zone.
Protein skimming, heating and lighting are still up in limbo.
<No worries... there is time>
Now my question: I was wondering whether I can avoid using a pump to
return the relatively low volume flowing through the Refugium (only 80GPH)
by using 2-3 airlifts ?  Hoping to stagger the pick-up depths of the airlifts
and collect return water high, middle and bottom of the column in the
Refugium desiring to return a variety of nano/micro critters to the display
tank for feeding purposes.  Since I'd like to have more filter-feeding inverts
than actual fish I'm not too concerned that these teeny-tiny critters would
be macerated by the relatively huge pump impeller as I am about how
to collect them from different levels in the water column and thusly add to
the diversity of food types presented to the inhabitants of the display tank.
Thanks for taking the time to read this, and THANKS for all the great FAQs and articles on the site.
John Bonnett
<Welcome... Most all wee-life does pass relatively unscathed past centrifugal pumps... I don't think the airlifts will work... just not enough lift... unless the tank and refugium were just about even with each other in terms of water level... I encourage you to look into small, dependable "mini" pumps instead. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Refugium
Hey Folks: 
<Hello, Ben>
I am under the impression that turnover for the refugium should be slower than the sump system yet adequate enough to supply o2 and nutrients. IF my assumption is correct what is the range for the turnover rate? 
<Ben, sounds to me like you are talking about a homemade reef. There really isn't a steadfast rule for flow. Most manufactured refs have built in baffles to keep the sand/mud, etc from getting stirred up. Any flow rate from five to ten times the volume of the ref should be sufficient. Measure LxWxD, divide by 231 to give you the volume size in gallons, and go from there. James (Salty Dog)> <<Mmm, actually... sounds to me like the question is about refugiums themselves... a few turnovers OF the refugium volume itself, per hour are about prime... 3 to 5 or so when using "mud". BobF>

Plumbing refugia + sand bed
Hi guys.
Can I plumb a 1" intake for my Iwaki pump directly into the one of my overflow( at bottom) for an upstream refugium I am setting up? Is this a sound plan? 
<I think you're better off with the downstream ref.>
Secondly, while I cure my live rock in a separate container can I go ahead and put the DSB in the main tank (new set-up) and seed it with micro inverts and/or live sand? 
<Don't see a problem. You will have water flow in the system, right? Make sure you check the ammonia level in your curing container before adding to the main tank. James (Salty Dog)>
Thanks a bunch. Sincerely, Stephan

Plumbing refugia + sand bed = part 2
Oops! Sorry for the lack of information. This system has two refugiums. The one in the sump (downstream) will house a DSB and live rocks. The downstream refugium will house Chaeto and perhaps a DSB too. The reason I want the intake in the overflow (shared) is because my bulkhead drains are pretty much maxed out with water entering the holes. I am using an Iwaki 40 for the upstream refugium. Thanks for your prompt and informative responses. P.S. Yes. there will flow in the tank for the sand bed. 
<If your overflow is large enough to handle the return pumps without draining the refugium, you will be OK. James (Salty Dog)>

- Upflow Refugium -
I currently have a sump/refugium under my 55 gallon tank. Can I turn this into a upstream refuge? 
<Hmm... good question, I've not heard of the term "upflow" attached to a refugium before so I can only guess as to what that really means.> 
I am having problems finding a diagram on the site of a well constructed upstream refuge. Could you help? 
<My guess is that an upflow refugium would actually be placed above your tank... you would pump water up to it and allow it to gravity feed back into the main tank. You could use your existing 55g to do this but you'd need to have some holes drilled into it for the overflow, build a stand to get it above the tank.> 
Thanks a ton Dominic
<Cheers, J -- >

Above-Tank Refugium
Greetings Crew,
Long time reader, first time writer... I have a question concerning the plumbing of an above-tank refugium setup. I currently have a 29 gal reef setup with 20lb of LR. I was looking to add a refugium to culture some live-food (copepods, etc) and some macroalgae. A hang-on refugium such as the CPR AquaFuge is out of the question due to space constraints, as is an in-sump refugium. I'm running with an Eheim Liberty 200 hang-on filter for chemical filtration and an AquaC Remora (powered by a MaxiJet 1200) for protein skimming. My plan was to build a 10 gallon refugium and hide it on top of cabinet which sits adjacent to the main tank (the cabinet top is engineered to hold at least 100 lb).  The refugium will be elevated (such that the base of the 'fuge is 18 inches above the main tank). My question then is: what combination of pump/siphon should I use? Should I even use a siphon for return water?  I'm assuming using a return pump for water would be inappropriate because if it were to fail, the refugium would quickly overflow? I suppose the trick is to maintain the same GPH input ration for the pump as the output siphon can handle? Would I simply have to use a valve (on the pump side) to tweak the water flow until it matches the siphon flow?
Many thanks in advance for your help and thanks again for the excellent site! 
<Chris, I would drill a hole in the acrylic refugium just below the normal water line and put a 3/4" bulkhead fitting in there and use this for your "return to main tank". You can use a power head to pump the water into the fuge, just size it correctly so it can't put more water into the fuge than the 3/4" line can remove. Do not submerge the return line from the power head. In the event of a power failure it will act as a siphon. Hope this is of some help to you. James (Salty Dog)><<RMF would actually drill two through puts... one slightly higher than the other... arrange for both to drain below... just in case...>>

Refugium flow rates
Hello Crew,
<Hola Chris>
Thanks so much for the collection of expertise. I have been so impressed with your site, Mr. Fenner that I have pledged $5 for every time I employ information from WetWebMedia.com. Please accept my first contribution of $50 from this gracious fellow hobbyist.
<Thank you very much. I'm sure Bob will be tickled.>
I have built refugiums for both of my marine systems. (60 gallon reef /29 gallon refugium and 180 gallon FOWLR /75 gallon refugium). I have flow rates of 15-18 times turnover in each tank and want to maximize flow through the refugium. With all of the information available throughout the industry the formula for flow rate through refugiums does not seem to exist. What is the recommended flow rate through refugiums?
Thank you for your time and help.
Best regards,
Chris Matthews
Dallas, Texas
<Well for a true refugium with a DSB and other denitrification properties, it only needs to be 2x-4x the turnover per hour. the slower on the refugium the better as the water needs time to be stripped of its impurities, and if you have a faster turn over, the substrate might be a cloudy mess as well. Hope this helps>
<Justin (Jager)> 

Flow In The Refugium.. How Much?
Hello Crew.
<Hi there! Scott F. here today!>
I've been reading about DSB on your site. I have a 135g tank, 40g sump, 29g refugium. 4" sand in the tank and 6" of sand in the fuge. It is mentioned to keep water flow at 10-20X tank volume. At the moment I have an Ampmaster 3000 connected and running at about 1600gph(CPR 150 controlled). There are 4 outlets, if I place one of my hands in front of one of the outlets it doesn't feel like there is much pressure. Does pressure = current or is my turnover sufficient?
<I think that your flow sounds just fine! I am not a big fan of huge flow rates within a refugium. I'd like to see the animals and plants in the refugium have maximum contact time with the water, with a minimum of disturbance.>
Should I add another overflow and crank up the pump to its 2228gph max? I've read that the turnover rate for the 'fuge should only be 4-5X hour. Does this change for a DSB?
<Not in my opinion. The DSB should essentially remain undisturbed, so the flow is fine as is! Hope this helps! Regards, Scott F.>