ick in an uncycled tank, Oranda treated with heat and salt. acidity in water. Iatrogenic troubles, reading  03/16/08
FW Daily?
<? all are posted>
Hello. First, thank you for your website, which I have perused many times over the last 2 years while getting interested in keeping fish. I have mainly been interested in the cold water section, as my parents have a pond and I have been helping them with their Shubunkin issues.
My interest in their fish led me to get really interested in aquatic life in general, particularly in goldfish.
<Ahh!>
Now to my current issue which concerns my new fish, and temporary tank.
I am building a 55 gallon tank for them next week when I get paid. Last week on Friday, I bought 2 x >1.5" Orandas and placed in a 20L tank with filter (un-primed, but dosed with Stress-Zyme)
<Mmmm, this won't work... the system needs to be cycled>
and an air-stone, and thermometer. The filter has a heater, so I switched it to minimum (18C), for a stable temp
<Good>
(it can get cold in our house at night). They were acclimatised to the temp for one hour in the bag and then I mixed tank water into the bag three times over the next hour, then released them (with the water which I now regret). I added dissolved rock salt to 0.1ppm, to help them settle down. I kept the tank light off until day 2. Their daily routine is (and has been since): curtains open, 30 minutes before tank light which is on for 8 hours, then tank light off while room light on for an hour, then room light off; and darkness until morning. I didn't feed until following day and gave them cucumber. Next day, a part of a pea, next day a blanched leaf of romaine lettuce and dried blood-worm, next day some dried Nori which I soaked first. I noticed red-cap fish flashing against the airline tube on the 2nd day. The other is an orange Oranda.
From the outset, I checked parameters 3 times a day (pH, ammonia, nitrite, salt level, occasionally checking nitrate). Their water was always conditioned with dechloriminator at water-change time (and upon the first tank-fill). I changed 25% per day. On the 4th day I started to see ammonia, so I did PWC partial water change, and added a drop of ammo-lock.
<This is only a temporary fix...>
I used Stress-Zyme to help prime the filter.
<Won't do this>
The red-cap was flashing still. I was still feeding lightly with greens as above, including blanched spinach.
Back to the 3rd day, I was shocked to see my red-cap covered in white spots. I Googled, diagnosed Ich, and Googled some more. I added more salt up to 0.2ppm.
<Not an effective cure...>
The feeding continued, very lightly, with different greens.
On 4th day, added more salt up to 0.3ppm and increased the temperature slowly. Following days; I kept up with parameter tests, increasing temperature until 29C over two days. The water was going more and more acid, down to between 6.5/7.0 (my tap water comes out at 7.5). I also noticed fluctuation in temperature, so bought a second heater, and installed it too. I set it to 29.5C,
<!>
and bought another thermometer.
The temp in the tank was stable at 30C on the thermometers and the salinity was stable at 0.3ppm.
Both fish seemed fine, no gasping for oxygen, I was watching them day-in, day-out. Plenty of aeration, filter making a waterfall, bubbles breaking the surface well. On the 5th day, the infected fish started losing its spots, and on the 7th they were all gone (so I am timing 70 hours until I turn the heat down gradually, or earlier if necessary, or later if possible). Also, the few black coloured ammonia burns that only the red-cap had, started to go away. Both their appetites are great, they try to eat my fingers when I put them on the surface.
<A good sign>
The water was beginning to smell a bit rich, I thought it must be the heat. Not bad smelling, but rich. Organic and a bit fishy. Some slight foaming around the tank corners.
Last night (day 8), the pH was down to 6 (yellow on test card) with only another 2 days to go before I start to lower the heat over a period of days. So I tried not to panic, and decided to do an immediate PWC. I looked at my change-water, already heated to the correct temperature and matched in salinity, and decided to throw it, and get some fresh. The reason being, I used the hot tap to fill it, and let it cool rather than use the cold tap, just for convenience. I panicked that the carbonates were being depleted with this method,
<You are wise here>
and I didn't want to add more acid water, or rather water which wouldn't buffer. So, I mixed fresh cold and warm water together, aware that I should err on the side of caution with pH, and added the salt as before, and heat, and dechlored it.
Meanwhile, still panicking, I thought I would add the tiniest pinch of bicarb, premixed with a little water. Well, I tested the tank 5 minutes later and the result was a little more green, but still green-yellow 6.5. This could have been a whole .5 raise, and of course I felt terrible that I could have altered it too much, too fast. I kept the lights dimmed in the room the whole time to keep the fish calm. But I think I saw one of them go upside down in the bubble stream (the orange one who didn't get the Ich). The red-cap seemed fine. I regret adding it, because I read afterwards on the net, that goldfish will tolerate a pH down to 6 if it was gradual, but on the other hand, I heard that Orandas were more sensitive than other goldfish. I learned about panicking after I did this.
I kept the lights dimmed, but sat and watched for a while. Only the orange fish was acting abnormally, although I could have been imagining it. It seemed to be dazed, and rather than resting, it was just glass-staring and going to the corner and back, and repeating. The red-cap seemed fine, perusing the gravel looking for things, like he does at night, in dim light. After a while, I put a bit more light on and approached the tank. They were both full of life, and excited to see me. I talked to them a while, then checked the temperature of my change-over water. It was matched, so I did a 25% change, checked the pH again, it was still green-yellow 6.5.
<No worries>
My plan for the next day (now this morning), was to do 4 or 5 small small water changes throughout the day. I want to reduce any DOC (concerned about the smell and acids) and get any poop from the bottom before it goes acid. I will continue with this the following days, and see if the pH rises any. Otherwise, it must be my Dechlor, or ammo-remover, or bio-load turning the water acid. I was leaning toward ammo-lock and bio-load. The fish will have to fast until I've worked it out.
This morning at 8 am, checked the pH and its more orange-yellow!!! I panic again. I don't think under 6 is going to be good for my fish. I added the tiniest pinch of bicarb this time, more diluted in filtered water, and dripped half the mix in the water, then a 25% water change too. I added some activated carbon but there is no room in my filter because I put a lot of filter wool in it, so I placed 3 pieces in the various currents in the tank. It then occurred to me to flush the filter media with temperature-matched salinity-matched dechlored water.
Having done that into a waste bucket, I now know where most of the problem was coming from. There was a green leaf salad and waste in there (the Nori, and possibly bits of cucumber, and green poo), so I flushed it out of the media, and replaced the filter. The foaming on the water has reduced, as has the smell. Just more water changes today are planned and panic over, I'm sure. I also stood by with the net, because my fish were pooing spinach like machines.
Any more pH rises when I change water should be gentle with smaller / more frequent water changes, and any acids in the water are now minimised I hope - wouldn't you say?
<Mmm, no... see below>
The carbonates in the water won't be eaten so quickly too, but I don't want the pH to get too far back to neutral until the ammonia phase is over.
An hour later (now), tested for ammonia and it was up to 0.25.
<... toxic...>
My change-water Isn't heated yet, so added a drop of ammo-lock. Not worried too much as the pH is still 6.5. ; then dosed the filter with Stress-Zyme.
In another hour, will do a 25% change, and test the ammonia and pH. if the pH is still 6.5, I will do another 25% (or less) a bit later ??, and remove the carbon.
Update: have done the above water change, pH 6.5, ammonia between 0 and 0.25 - slightly green coloured.
This is all notes as I've gone along, from about day 5, written up to give to you for help. If you can offer me any advice on how to get through the next days, and help me out with this fear that it's all going to go wrong, I'd really appreciate it. My fish seem perfectly well, I just want them to stay that way.
Thanks very much, David.
<Troubles... initially... This volume is too small for these fish... it wasn't, isn't cycled... Your reliance on chemical treatments won't work to adjust for nitrogenous accumulation... the Salt... I'd be setting up the 55 gallon, using a bacterial prep. to cycle it stat.! And moving these goldfish ASAP. Bob Fenner>

Red eye, Goldfish... infection or genetics?  2/1/08
Wet Web Media Crew.
I have a yellow colored two year old goldfish that has red rings around the pupils of both eyes. Fish is otherwise healthy along with 12 other fish in an 80 gal tank. What is causing the red?
Bud
<Greetings. Almost certainly an opportunistic bacterial infection or irritation caused by something in the water, but bloody eyes are also a symptom of Fish TB. Now, Fish TB is very rare in freshwater aquaria, and almost always goes along with emaciation. Goldfish are one of the species known to contract Fish TB which is why I mention it. Anyway, the much more likely issue is mechanical damage, perhaps caused by rough handling, followed be a secondary infection. While an 80 gallon tank is a nice size, you don't say how big those twelve other fish are, and it would not be impossible for water conditions to be variable or downright poor. So I'd be checking the nitrite level first, and then also the pH to see that water chemistry is stable. Goldfish don't like acidic conditions, and overstocked tanks can be extremely prone to acidification. Under poor/variable water conditions, secondary infections become a problem, and that's likely what's happening here. Cheers, Neale.> <<Might well be just a heritable characteristic... No worries if so. BobF>>

Re: Red Eyed Fish, goldfish... dis. or hereditary characteristic?  2/1/08
Neale:
<Bud,>
Sorry, should have given you more information. Test the water two times a month for ph, ammonia, nitrites. The water is from a well and passed through a water softener and is alkaline (pH) of 8,0 is common.
<I'm dead against domestic water softeners for aquaria. Plain vanilla "liquid rock" a 20 degrees dH and pH 8.2 is pretty common in Southern England, and Goldfish LOVE THE STUFF! Domestic water softeners replace (temporary) hardness with sodium salts, and this creates something few fish encounter in the wild. So while it seems better because it's "soft" it actually isn't like real soft water out of the Amazon, say, but something very different.>
Ammonia tests (0) and do Nitrites.
<Good.>
Change the water 50% every month and every third month 100% to clean the tank.
<Odd. I'd go with 25-50% per week, and wouldn't empty the tank at all. Stirring the gravel with a bamboo cane or similar, while trawling about with a siphon, should suck out the detritus perfectly well.>
I do save 20 gals of the old water to put into the new water and also add just 1/2 of the recommended salt, one Tbsp. for 10 gals of water.
<Irrelevant. Goldfish don't need salt, and I'd HEARTILY recommend you stop creating this weird sodium-rich/mineral-poor water. Instead just use well water, with dechlorinator of course. Salt isn't recommended by me or really anyone else I know who writes about fish professionally. It's Old School. What salt does is mitigate against nitrite and nitrate, and if you don't do enough water changes or have a poor filter, that's useful. But salt also places an abnormal strain on the osmoregulatory system of freshwater fish. Some fish don't care about this (including, as it happens, Goldfish, which are quite tolerant of brackish water) but on the whole it doesn't help. I'd sooner do big water changes with plain vanilla water rather than smaller water changes with stuff like salt and (ever worse) carbon in the filter. Both salt and carbon are more about sending money to salt and carbon manufacturers than actually keeping your fish healthy.>
I have super aeration and filtration.
<Good.>
BioZyme is also added to the new water.
<No need for extra bacteria or bacteria "tonics" after water changes. Again, mostly a con.>
Size of the fish, All the fish are between 3 and 5 inches. Most are 4 years old or older. I move the fish to an outside 200 gal. pond in mid June and back to the tank in mid October. Have lost only one fish in three years.
<Sounds good. Tell me, how similar, or otherwise, is the water in the pond compared to the water in the aquarium.>
I have the funny feeling that the red eyed fish may be almost blind or is blind and with the exception of the red eyes is healthy.
<If the fish is blind, it will hardly make a difference. Goldfish -- and Carp generally -- live in very cloudy water where they use their lateral line, taste buds, and extremely keen hearing to navigate and find food. Anyway, to test, come down in the night when the lights are out and the room is dark, and shine a light into the tank. Fish should react to this, either being startled or being attracted, depending. But if Ol' Red Eyes does nothing, that might indeed mean he's blind.> Now, if it is (Fish TB) is it contagious?
<For a start, it is extremely rare. Probably 1 in a 1000 cases where people *think* their freshwater fish has Fish TB actually turn out to be Fish TB. It's almost always Finrot, Lymphocystis, or something else like that. In theory, yes, it is contagious, and again, in theory even to people. So if suspected, it's something to deal with. But I think it extremely unlikely to be the problem here. You would see noticeable emaciation and very commonly external ulcers. Since you aren't reporting these, I don't think that's what we're dealing with. As Bob says, it may be genetic. In that case, I'd expect both eyes to look similar. Mechanical damage is usually asymmetrical.>
If the TB is not a danger to the other fish, I guess I will just live with a Red Eyes Fish.
<Indeed.>
One other question, are you in the UK?
<Yep.>
And thank you Neale for your fast response, I did not expect it.
<We do try...>
Bud...in the U.S.
<Good luck, Neale.> <Mmm, I do still suspect this is simple genetic expression... not "cure-able", nor debilitating. BobF>

Black spots on goldfish fins 1/29/08
Hi Crew,
We recently got my daughter a couple of goldfish for her birthday, and yes, I have read what you said about fish not being a good present. It's too late for that, though, and now are stuck trying to figure out how to take care of the fish. Since then, I've done a lot of reading up on goldfish, but realize we are still far from giving them an ideal environment.
<Oh...?>
We had two comets until one died; we now have 1 comet and 1 tinfoil barb.
They are still pretty small and live in a 5 gallon tank (I know).
<Whoa... apart from the fact goldfish are big fish and need at least a 30 gallon tank long term, tinfoil barbs (Barbonymus schwanenfeldii) are just as large and far more active, as well as being schooling fish. A 55 gallon tank would be a squeeze, let along a 5 gallon tank.>
I did a water change when the first fish died, and since then, the remaining comet has developed black marks on its fins. I researched it on the internet, and it looks like what's described as black smudge, or healing scars from damage done by ammonia or sharp objects (entirely possible). My research indicates that scars are a good sign, as the danger has been removed and the fish is healing.
<Hmm... not sure scars are a *good sign* per se.>
However, the black marks seem to be growing daily and is now starting to show up faintly on the underbelly, especially near the anal area. The scale quality seems to be going down as well. I don't think it's scale loss, but it looks sort of like they're fading or developing pale spots.
<Black Spot Disease is usually caused by trematode worms. They have a complex life cycle that can't be completed in the aquarium, so once the black cysts burst, the next stage of parasite life cycle gets messed up, and the disease is finished with.>
I recently changed the filter and treated the water for chlorination, but beyond that I'm not sure what to do. I know you'll tell me to get a bigger tank, and believe me, I would if hubby would allow it. Is there anything I can do besides getting a new tank, or should I even be concerned?
<Black Spot Disease is not, by itself, a major problem. The main risk is secondary infection, because the burst cysts are effectively openings for bacteria to work their way into the fish. So Finrot, for example, is one possible problem. An excessively small aquarium -- which yours is -- definitely magnifies this problem. I cannot stress this strongly enough: a 5 gallon tank is simply not viable for even one Goldfish, let alone a Goldfish and a Tinfoil Barb. It's like trying to keep a dog in a rabbit hutch.>
The fish is behaving normally (as far as I can tell - I don't know much about normal fish behavior); he's a pretty outgoing little fellow and enjoys human company. He's energetic and a good eater.
<Goldfish are definitely friendly animals and yes, they do like people. And that's why we should repay that compliment by giving them good living conditions.>
Any advice is welcome. Thanks!
Amy Kesic
<Cheers, Neale.>

Re: Black spots on goldfish fins 1/31/08
Thank you for your reply.
<Happy to help.>
I may have convinced my husband to get a new tank (by returning the one we have, if they'll take it). What's the minimum size you recommend for our two fish? They are a comet goldfish and a tinfoil barb. I'm trying to find good deals on Craigslist, and so far have found that 55-75 gallon tanks are generally in our price range.
<Either would be ideal. If the price difference is trivial, then obviously the bigger the better, but if money/space are limiting, then the 55 will be perfectly acceptable. You'll be pleasantly surprised by how much easier it is to maintain a big tank compared to a small one, and you'll even be able to add some suitable tankmates. I'd certainly get a couple more Goldfish. The Tinfoil barb would appreciate a pal or two, as well, but oddly enough they seem to do okay when combined with similar-looking fish, and Goldfish should fit the bill. Add a nice Plec or some other peaceful catfish, and off you go!>
Additionally, I would appreciate any recommendations on plants/decorations that would be suitable for these fish.
<I'd tend to go with plastic plants and ceramic ornaments. Nice big bits of rockery stone from the garden centre always work well with big fish, but check the ones you get are lime-free and don't have any metal seams in them. Granite and slate are two reliable choices. Since these fish are open water animals, what they really want is lots of tall plastic plants around the sides and back, and maybe a few ornaments in the middle to explore. Otherwise, just open water! Some folks like to go "formal" with Goldfish, and choose unusual terracotta urns and ornaments, so that the thing has a more formal look. Oriental stuff like pagodas also look really nice with them. There's lots of options out there.>
Our poor Sparky is getting sicker by the day. Are there any medications you recommend in the meantime?
<Treat with a combination Finrot/Fungus medication such as Maracyn or eSHa 2000. You could also do seawater dips. These are pretty good for cleaning wounds and killing external parasites. Make up a 3% salt solution using aquarium water plus salt (even cooking salt is fine for this). A 3% solution is about 30 grammes per litre (or 4 ounces per US gallon). Dip the fish in there once or twice a day for 2-10 minutes. Dip the fish, watching its behaviour. It'll be unhappy, but it shouldn't keel over. When it keels over, that means you MUST take it out at once. I'd recommend a 2 minute dip to start with, then 4 minutes the next time, 6 the next, and so on. The idea is the salt water dehydrates external parasites before it kills your fish; it's completely safe done properly, but done carelessly you can kill your fish. So you need to whip the fish out the moment it seems to lose balance (or before). This is strictly optional, and you should be fine just using the medications mentioned earlier.>
Thanks again for your excellent advice.
Amy
<Cheers, Neale.>

My yellow goldish, hlth.  – 1/28/08
Hello, it looks like my yellow goldfish has a bloated stomach. I've been reading you other post and comments but I can't seem to find the right answer to my question. I haven't changed any food. Please keep in mind, this is the first I every take care of goldfish. What is the difference between being pregnant and having a bloated stomach?
<Greetings. The main difference is that Goldfish do not get pregnant. They lay eggs. Most of the time that Goldfish look bloated they have constipation. Commonly caused by people feeding them nothing but Goldfish food. Strange but true -- "Goldfish Food" isn't very good for them! At least, not every day. Best used as a treat once or twice a week. Rest of the time use a plant-based diet as well as high-fibre things like Daphnia. Do read this excellent article on floaty, bloaty Goldfish...
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/gldfshmalnut.htm
Cheers, Neale.>

Goldfish flashing and bruising (?) despite good water and 5 day Prazi treatment  1/26/08
Hi,
I have spent so much time on your website and am vastly more informed than I was at the outset of this saga, but still have an issue with my goldfish that I am hoping against hope you can help me with. I am a new goldfish owner and I have one fantail goldfish in a 30 gallon tank. I was told by the petstore to cycle my tank by letting it sit for one week with BioZyme added daily, which I did.
<Mmm, not likely effective... did you measure appreciable ammonia, nitrite, nitrate changes?>
I now know this is very inadequate but now I have the fish. I am getting zero readings on ammonia but still some nitrite readings (low but measurable).
<Toxic>
I have been doing daily 25% water changes (recommended for the worm treatment) so I don't see how the water could be too bad.
<Polluted in varying degrees is not healthy>
My fish started out with the noticeable symptom of an anchor worm hanging off of him. I was advised to take him out and pull of the anchor worm, which I did, and also treated with Maracide, a medicine that supposedly treats anchor worm.
<... does not. Only useful against some protozoans>
About a week later he had another anchor worm. Again I pulled it off of him and treated with Maracide for three days of the five recommended.
<...>
By this time, Jingles was flashing and missing scales. Right after I removed the second worm I noticed a black spot on his gill, but in front of it, like a bruise. After day three of the Maracide treatment I reached the people at the Goldfish Connection, who told me they thought my fish had flukes (because of the flashing)
<Quite possibly>
and that Prazi was a good and safe treatment for that.
<Yes>
By this time, he had black spots on his side were the scales were missing. To me it appears to be bruising (don't know if that's what it is because I obviously have no idea what I'm doing but just describing their appearance). The black patch on his gill has not gotten bigger but no gotten better either (after a week).
I am on day 5 of 5 of the Prazi treatment and he is still flashing. I've seen no more evidence of the anchor worm.
<May well still be there... need to be treated with an effective arthrocide... Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwcrustdisfaqs.htm
and the linked file above re Organophosphate Use>
He is still eating and I've been feeding him Medi-Gold on the advice of the Goldfish Connection in case he has any infection from the flukes. He is eating and seems to have a healthy appetite. He is not laying on the bottom or gulping air and his gills are red inside. He seems slightly more lethargic than when I first got him (late December) and when he does move he flashes a lot. My concern is that if the flashing was caused by flukes, shouldn't he have stopped by now?
<Mmm, may take some time to abate. The shorter answer, perhaps not yet>
And if it's caused by water (which seems unlikely with the daily 25 percent water changes and all) what should I do?
<Maybe BioSpira to speed up (really... the other product may not have worked) the cycling process...>
And if it's not caused by either of those things, what could it be? I can't find any information on anything else that could cause it despite countless hours Googling.
<The Lernaea/Anchorworm may be present still... I would like to "chat" with whoever sold you this infested specimen, gave you the "crap" advice re the Mardel product...>
I should also add that I did not do a water change for the first two weeks I had him, not did I test it, as I was just going by what the PetCo people said (I know now this was stupid and have every test strip on the market practically) so there may have been some damage to him then, although he acted completely normal and did not show symptoms until well after I started doing the water changes more frequently.
I also can't find much about the black spots except that it might be bruising, which makes sense because of the flashing. I am so desperate to get him better but I am at a loss what to do next. Can you help me?
Rebecca
<The black spots are best ignored at this point... Are very likely "simply" symptomatic of the parasite presence and treatments, stress from a not-ready environment... Please read where you were referred to, "listen" only to yourself... Trust the fine folks at Goldfish Connection... Bob Fenner>
 

Tuberculosis, FW bacterial and goldfish dis. f's   1/25/08 Hello there, I'm hoping that you can help me with a problem I've been having with my fish tank. I have been keeping a fairly good diary of everything over the past 2 years that I have had the tank so can give you pretty thorough information. <OK.> The tank is 60 gallons with a 60 gallon filter in it. <What in heaven's name is a "60 gallon filter"? If you mean, the manufacturer states the tank is suitable for up to 60 gallons, that's fine. But I will make this point: manufacturers universally give "best case" scenarios when selling filters, for the same reason motor manufacturers quote glowing fuel consumption rates you'll never see in real life. As soon as you put media in a filter, or worse, put the filter under the tank so it has to pump against gravity, your filter's turnover drops. So if you have a 60 gallon tank, you need to be careful. I'd always recommend getting *at least* the next size up in a filter range for a tank of any given size, rather than trying to scrape by on the *absolute upper limit* of one particular filter. In other words, get a filter with not less than 4 times the volume of the tank in turnover per hour. I'd recommend 6x for dirty fish like Goldfish, plecs and cichlids.> H20 measurements have always been good. <Meaning what? Please give us NUMBERS... lots of people thing their water quality or water chemistry is good, and then it turns out it's rubbish. For example: Goldfish need hard, alkaline water, yet lots of people don't know that, and wonder why their little Goldies keep getting sick in apparently clean but soft/acid water!> 25% H20 changes once a week. <Good. More would be better though!> Average number of fish in the tank at any give time is 5 fancy goldfish (average length is about 1.5-2 inches not counting the tail), 3 Cory's and a Pleco. <Odd mix, but what the heck! If they get along, great.> There is also quite a bit of plant life in the tank which all the fish love. <I bet. Goldfish tend to be herbivores when given the chance.> Tried a couple of Apple snails but they didn't do too well - I think the water was a bit too hard for them maybe... they are harder to diagnose than fish. <No, this wasn't the situation here. For a start, Apple Snails want water that is as hard as possible, like snails generally. Usually Apples fail because they get harassed, and can't eat or get damaged in the process. Many fish will nibble on their tentacles, scrape on the shell, or whatever. Best kept in their own tanks, where they're great fun.> I feed the fish almost exclusively peas, and occasionally some soaked fish flakes. <Sounds good, though the Corydoras would doubtless like a bit of protein every day rather than just vegetables. Corydoras do indeed eat a lot of algae and decaying plant matter in the wild, but they're also micro-carnivores, taking insect larvae and worms of various types. Vegetarian flake food (sold for livebearers) and algae wafers (sold for plecs) would work great for ALL your fish.> Temperature is about 78 degrees. <Slightly warmer than I'd go for this collection. Does depend on the Corydoras species being kept though. The genus Corydoras ranges across subtropical to tropical environments. Peppered and Bearded Corydoras for example prefer cooler conditions than most tropical fish, around 20C/68F being just right for them. I'd tend towards the 24C/75F level if keeping Fancy Goldfish with low-end tropicals just to balance warmth and oxygen within a safe zone for all the fish.> Other than that I have had some goldfish live for the whole 2+years I've had the tank with not much in the way of any symptoms, and some live for only a week. before showing distress. I always use the salt quarantine method with in conjunction with melafix before adding new fish. <Not a big fan of Melafix.> After the quarantine period, I add them to the main tank. Some survive, some die quickly, some last a couple of months. In general, the more exotic the variety, the more unwieldy the body type, the sooner they die... though Plecos and catfish are susceptible as well. <This really isn't normal. If you're losing even 10% of the new fish you're buying, that's a far greater mortality than normal. Goldfish should have, easily, a 95% survival rate within the first year, and Plecs about the same, maybe even better. All else being equal, if you're seeing dramatic losses in fish, then you have to check two things: water chemistry and water quality.> Some will start spending all their time at the top going for the oxygen-rich air; some will hide behind plants or in a corner or sit on the bottom having a hard time breathing; some will develop a fungus or ich or septicemia. <All consistent with poor water quality.> Some have never shown any symptoms in the 2 years. Many will develop a bent spine in the latter stages of their decline. I used to think that all of these symptoms were the problem and have concentrated on curing these, which is easy enough but the fish themselves never really recovered and eventually died for no outward signs. About a month ago however, one of the fish I've had for 2 years started developing bumps under his scales. He is my biggest fish at 2.5 inches and some of the bumps were as large as a small pea! I would look at him the next day however, and the bump would be gone, but another one or two would have appeared somewhere else! It was very disconcerting to see a rotating series of bumps on him every day when I checked in on him. I have since seen these bumps open up with a type of... I'll say it looks like yellow processed cheese. After the cheesy stuff squishes out at detaches itself (takes about an hour or 2), you would never know there was a problem, though a new bump will quickly start forming if it hasn't before the other one burst. I am able to keep these bumps at bay by feeding all the fish (I no longer bother taking this fish out of the tank into quarantine) an erythromycin based gel that I mix in with their peas. I can feed this to them for 2 weeks, but a day after I stop, the bumps return for the one fish and some of the other fish start showing signs of sickness - breathing at the surface or sitting on the bottom. The fish with the cheesy blisters never seems to be suffering too much - he has always been pretty hardy but you can tell it is getting harder for him to swim and he isn't quite as energetic... though always ready to eat! <Sounds like some sort of systemic bacterial infection... Aeromonas or something similar. That's why the erythromycin is helping. But the bottom line is that these things almost only ever happen in tanks with chronic problems, typically poor, or at least variable, water quality.> After spending a lot of time reading on the net - your site and others - I have decided that it is probably tuberculosis and that treating individual fish is probably not the answer anymore - I have to treat the whole tank. <Unlikely Fish TB; Fish TB is almost entirely an issue in marine aquaria rather than freshwater aquaria, and even then it isn't common. Most of the time people *think* it's Fish TB, it's actually something much more prosaic. Regardless, identifying bacterial infections is virtually impossible for the home aquarist, unless you happen to be a microbiologist as well, in which case take a swab and ID the bacteria under a microscope.> I live in Canada and I know that some medications for fish are no longer available here... I'm not sure which, however. <Can't speak for Canada, but in the UK at least, pet owners can only get antibiotics from the Vet. Not expensive, but it is another step in the chain. In the US, antibiotics have traditionally been more readily available to pet owners under brand names such as Maracyn.> I was hoping you could give me some feedback - do you think that tuberculosis is the problem. <No.> How should I treat the tank? <First tell me something about the water quality and water chemistry. Not what you think the results are (so don't tell me "fine" or "good") but tell me precisely what your test kits report, i.e., the pH, the hardness in degrees dH or KH, the nitrite in mg/l, and (ideally) the ammonia in mg/l as well. Tell me the turnover of the filter in litres/gallons per hour -- this'll be written on the pump somewhere ("gph" or "lph" usually).> Oh, one important note may be that there are only 6 goldfish and 2 Cory's currently in the tank. Thanks, Matt <Cheers, Neale.> Re: Tuberculosis (RMF, feel free to comment)  1/25/08 Wow! You guys are fast! <One tries...> I feel like a bad fish keeper now. <We all make mistakes and we all go wrong. What matters is learning and changing.> Here is some more specific data on the aquarium: The filter is an Aquaclear 70 that can filter 300 gallons per hour and hangs on to the back of the tank. I don't have it cranked though as the goldfish are so small that if they swim to near where the water comes in it can throw them to the front of the tank. There are 3 inserts in it - Aquaclear Foam, Biomax, and Ammonia remover. <Not a big fan of Ammonia Remover (i.e., Zeolite). In a proper aquarium, biological filtration is altogether more effective and reliable. Zeolite needs to be replaced as often as once a week! Few people do that, and often tanks with Zeolite in the filter have unsafe levels of ammonia because of it. Mostly, Zeolite is a marketing gimmick: it sounds useful, but outside of a certain set of situations (e.g., hospital tanks) it really isn't useful.> Upon checking my fish diary and in-tank thermometer again the temperature in the tank is actually at 76 degrees. This is the lowest temperature the heater will keep the water. I have the heater set to 72 degrees, which is it's lowest setting, but it doesn't correspond to that temperature in the tank which is always at 76 degrees. It has been stable at that setting since I purchased the heater about 2 years ago. Before that the temperature of the tank always fluctuated and we had constantly spawning goldfish. <OK.> As for the water measurements, here they are and they haven't really fluctuated much from these norms in the past 2 years: pH is 7.6 (though will vary between 7.4 and 7.8 over time) KH is 120mg/L <A little less KH than I'd like with Goldfish, and explains somewhat the fluctuations in pH.> GH is 180 mg/L Ammonia is 0.1-0.2 mg/L Nitrite is less that 0.1 mg/L <Here's your problem: Ammonia and nitrite should both be zero, all the time. "Less than 0.1 mg/l" isn't acceptable. It HAS TO BE zero. No deviations. If it's like this all the time, that's why your fish are so unhealthy. Too many fish, too much food, or inadequate filtration. Pick and choose from those, because they're what's on the table as far as explanation goes. Do read Bob's article on establishing proper Bio filtration, because that's your next job: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwestcycling.htm I'd streamline the filter by chunking out any media other than medium to fine sponges or ceramics. What you want is optimal bio filtration.> These are all the measurements I have the ability to take with the test kit I have. I await your further instructions on how to make my fish happier! Cheers, Matt <Hope this helps. Cheers, Neale.> Re: Tuberculosis (RMF, feel free to comment)  1/25/08 OK, so I can do more frequent or larger H2O changes and maybe feed the fish a little bit less and add a smaller, 2nd filter perhaps to increase the water quality. <Likely need to do ALL those things. Try them out and see if the nitrite and ammonia drop to zero. If they do, BINGO! You've cracked fishkeeping.> Should I not worry about treating the tank as far as the apparent bacterial infection goes because it should disappear with better water quality? <Need to do both. Without better water quality, the fish won't stay healthy, regardless of how often you treat. Even if you fix the water quality, the bacteria are in your fish now, and need to be dealt with.> Thanks again, Matt <Cheers, Neale.>

Goldfish help - 1/24/08
Hello, I'm hoping you can help. 3 days ago my goldfish all of a sudden started swimming strangely. Its like it can't keep control of i