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FAQs on Copper Use, Science & Nonsense
Related Articles: Copper Use in Marine Systems,
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Product FAQs, Copper Test FAQs,
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Copper Removal 2, &
Live Rock,
Marine Parasitic Disease, Parasitic
Marine Tanks, Parasitic Reef Tanks,
Cryptocaryoniasis,
Marine Ich, Marine
Velvet Disease, Medications/Treatments 1,
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II, Treating
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Use, Marine Disease 1,
Puffer Disease,
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Not to be used in the presence of wanted
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Canthigaster valentini with Crypt –
01/02/2008
Hi,
<Hello.>
I have a Valentini Puffer fish that has ich and has had it for about 2 weeks.
He's doing fine, been eating well and looking healthy other than the white
spots. I first tried soaking all his food in garlic and Zoë and then went about
using some organic rid ich med (because it was more an organic deal and not a
med). The tank he's in is a FOWLR tank and some of the live rock was more base
rock then anything. I decided to use CopperSafe in the DT tank (don't kill me)
<I won’t, but just can tell you that quarantine tanks are much more efficient.>
and have a chelated copper test kit for API to watch closely. After looking all
over the web, it seems that I should keep this particular brand copper at about
1.4-2ppm. I have kept it about 1.5 or so as I'm worried about using copper with
this puffer as it is.
<Should be okay. This is a chelated product (those chelated molecules are
heavier than ionic copper) that aside of copper consist of other chemicals.
Therefore the necessary level is high compared to ionic copper recommendations.
The good thing with chelated products is that they release the copper over time.
However, substrate and rock will influence the copper efficiency, one reason why
all copper products should only be used in quarantine tanks.>
I think that CopperSafe is the least toxic copper treatment out there. This
morning he puffed up for the first time when no other fish was around or messing
with him. I've heard that this is normal but that it might also be stress. What
should be my next steps? Thanks.
<Monitor with your chelated copper test kit, keep the level, and also check your
ammonia level daily. Read http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm and the
linked FAQs to learn about the life cycle of the parasite. Keep the copper level
for at least 7-10 days. After that time and if the spots disappear use activated
carbon to remove the copper from the system. Change the carbon every 14 days. If
the spots come back in a new cycle use a quarantine tank without rocks and
substrate for treatment. Cheers und good luck, Marco.> Canthigaster valentini with
Crypt – follow up – 01/02/2008
So it’s now day 5 of copper treatment and everybody is doing great. The
spots on the puffer are gone and I test for copper both AM and PM and test daily
for the ammonia levels and PH levels. I will probably go through day 10 before I
start using the carbon and after a while I will add some more live rock to seed
the, now, base rock. If my research is correct, I will have killed off the
parasites and, unless brought in to the tank again by a fish, should never see
ich again... correct?
<Yes, hopefully!>
Its my understanding that fish don't create ich out of nothing, but that they
get it from somewhere and pass it along....
<Right, these are ciliate Protozoans, they have to come from somewhere. Only
their free swimming stage (theronts) is affected effectively by chemical
treatments. In a bare bottom tank you’d also have the possibility to remove
many/all of the protomont and tomont stage (by siphoning the bottom every day),
which are encysted and now my rest in the substrate. I do hope none of them
survives the 10 days of treatment in your tank, chances are not too bad.
However, if the spots (this is the trophont stage infesting the fish) return,
because a few tomonts survived in the substrate, move the puffer to a bare
bottom quarantine tank and treat, while the display stays fallow for at least 4
weeks. This seems to be the most effective procedure. Good luck, Marco.>
Canthigaster
valentini with Crypt – follow up II... Cu use... same as it ever was f'
– 01/02/2008
Well I have more than just the puffer in the tank, so I'm going to
continue to treat in the display.
<Okay, but be prepared that the substrate might absorb some of the
copper and release it over time.>
I read yesterday where the life cycle of the parasite is about 3 weeks
so 4 weeks of copper should do. However they also say that you should
treat the fish 3 weeks more after the last time you see white spots, so
it might be longer. Fortunately the ich spots are gone and I'm now just
waiting the 3 weeks and testing ammonia/PH/copper levels every evening.
<Okay, but do not use the copper for more than the planned 4 entire
weeks. Besides killing the parasite, it also affects the health of the
fishes. Copper treatments should be as long as necessary, but also as
short as possible. I’d consider 7-10 days as the minimum and 4 weeks as
the maximum, depending on the copper level. Anything in between can
work. Marco.> |
Using Cu to control algae in a marine system
Sir,
With your expert advice and guidance, I was able to successfully thwart an
outbreak of ich using copper in my saltwater fish-only display tank. In fact, I
didn't lose one occupant!!! (I know, you said to get a quarantine tank and I am
working on it!)
<Good>
During the 14 day treatment regime, I noticed that virtually all traces of algae
stopped growing and eventually disappeared, making the tank look much nicer!!!
Is there any harm in continuing to use copper to control the growth of algae? If
so, what level should I maintain in the tank to prevent
harming the fish? Thanks again!!!! Mike Basciano
<Large/public aquariums do use copper compounds to both control nuisance
algae and epizootics... But I caution against this in residential/hobbyist
settings... it's too easy to "get into trouble"... and to some degree
poison ones fish livestock while thwarting the algae... Better to look to other
control mechanisms (limiting nutrients, providing predators, competitors...) as
listed here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/algaeconMar.htm
Bob Fenner>
Working With Copper
Thanks for the response... I've moved the fish to the treatment
tank with SeaCure copper treatment after a five minute freshwater dip last
night.
<Excellent procedure...Treat the fish in a separate tank!>
This morning the fish that aren't hiding are twitching a little...does a copper
treatment effect fish behavior? How can I discern copper
treatment behavior from the stress of the catch and dip?
<Well, if copper is negatively affecting your fishes, you'll often see some
physical manifestations, such as damage to the skin, possible heavy breathing,
and obvious distress. I would not be overly concerned about the
"twitching" that you're observing, as long as the fishes are otherwise
okay, and as long as you are monitoring the copper levels regularly to assure
that they are at proper levels.>
The wrasse did a header into the glass during his dip and he seemed to be
listless this morning.
<Well, remember- freshwater dips do induce some stress/shock on
fishes...some handle it better than others. However, if done correctly, the dip
process is quite safe and generally harmless to most fishes>
How little room for error is there on the level of copper in the water?
<Really, IMO- not too much. Copper is a reliable, effective, and largely safe
cure for Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium, but you absolutely have to monitor the
level of copper in your water to avoid killing your fish!>
Does carbon, like in the Magnum 350 I have on the treatment tank,
effect copper levels?
<It will remove some copper, so be sure to test and maintain a proper
therapeutic level in the treatment tank>
Please explain the difference in the types of copper
treatments in relation the copper test kits available. I used a Red
Sea test kit...I've never had good experiences with their test kits and I'm
going to get another one today. Thanks for all your help, Damon
<Well, Damon- this explanation would fill the page! Fortunately for you, the
WWM site has lots of information on the use of copper, and how to test for it in
your aquarium. Do a search of the site and you'll find more information than you
could imagine on this topic! It's good reading, and very important. Good luck!
Regards, Scott F>
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