Possible Tang Ich    11/27/06
I recently purchased two tangs from my LFS (11 or 12 days ago). One is a Chocolate (mimic?) and the other is a Yelloweye. They have both been doing very well, eating from the live rock and pecking at the glass and seem to be getting along with the other fish (two clowns and three chromis). Over the past day or two I noticed the Mimic swimming in circles along the back side of the tank around and around and around. Then he will stop and mingle with the others and then goes back to his counter-clockwise pattern. The other Tang has been sitting in one corner of the tank pecking at the glass along the same 8-10 inches of silicon until his friend stops by to say hi, and then they both go back to their OCD behaviors. On top of that (and maybe worse), this evening we noticed white specks on both of them. I don't see any cloudy spots around the eyes as other people have mentioned. <the cloudy eyes are a secondary bacterial infection...this occurs once their immune systems start to go south>Does this sound like Ich to you?<go to the ich faq's to diagnose the tangs. also you should have quarantined these fish before you put them in your main system. Tangs in my opinion have ich problems more than any other imported species!> I did read the Manhattan Attorney's "air bubble incident" and looked more closely at the fish and the dots don't seem to be air as best as I can tell, and I am assuming that their behavior is an indicator of stress.<yes the crypt./ich species stresses the fish out!> The other fish seem to be unaffected for now.
Unfortunately I can't say that I have a quarantine tank. Yeah, of course "I've been meaning to" and trying to convince my wife that I need one, but don't have one none-the-less. As I am typing I am noticing that the cleaner shrimp is working on the Yelloweye. Hopefully this is good, but may be irrelevant. <shrimp will not be able to help as the parasites reproduce much faster than any cleaner species can clean. I would go ahead and purchase a qt. aquarium and treat with copper sulfate and do read the information on ich.. on the WWM website. good luck to you and happy holidays, IanB>
So, as I'm sure you know, I am writing for suggestions on how to help my tangs be happy and avoid any potential issues with the rest of my tank.
Also, since I'm sure "get a quarantine tank" will be one of your demands (hahaha) what size would you recommend? Are quarantine tanks typically FOWLR tanks? I have been scoping out the 24 gal Nano-Cube type tanks.
Here is my setup:
6 months old
90 gallon with approx 100 lbs of live rock
27 gal refugium
Two 175w 10K Metal Halides
Two 28w fluorescents (one actinic)
Several Mushroom corals
1 sm Frogspawn frag
1 Star Polyp frag (spreading)
1 sm Button Polyp frag
Silver Tip Xenia (one frag has now become 5 or 6)
1 Cleaner Shrimp
3 green chromis
2 gold-stripe clowns
1 large LT Anemone
1 emerald crab (tripled in size in 2 months)
1 serpent star
1 bristle star
Several snails and blue leg crabs
And my two Tangs (each is approx 2.5" - 3")
According to my very basic test kit:
Ammonia, nitrates and nitrites all undetectable
Alkalinity 280 +
pH approx 8.0 (lower than it has been)
Thank you VERY much for all of your time and effort that goes into supporting all of us hobbyists. Your site is an incredible resource and it is much appreciated!
Jared

Fading tangs  11/22/06
hey bob, Anthony and all
<Shane! Where's your capitalization dude?>
I thought I would look into what information I might find here concerning the fin erosion and color loss with yellow tangs, which I found discussed in one of your postings, a malady that has been cropping up in many of my retail customers' and aquarium service client's aquariums over the past few years.
<IMO/E such "corrosion" is due to a synergism twixt mainly water quality and poor nutrition... possibly with a psycho-social component tossed in... the worse these factors are the faster, more obvious the damage... Oh, and can be reversed to an extent, especially if caught early...>
I have seen this problem develop dozens of times, but have never been able to find any information that adequately explained the possible causes, which will appear in a wide range of aquaria, both reef and fish-only, as well as a wide range of water quality parameters. I have also seen it develop in purple tangs as well.
<Mmm, yes... Notice that this rarely happens in Leng Sy's "Miracle Mud" systems? I suspect the catalytic effects of the mud improve both water quality and the make-up of the nutrient component of the water... which marines "drink" freely>
unfortunately, the explanation given in your post entitled "fading tang" sheds no light at all on this syndrome. the pictured fish is as near a textbook example of the malady as I have seen, and it cannot be attributed simply to fin nipping as suggested in your article.
<Agreed... this is at best a minor cause>
short of performing empirical scientific research, which I have neither the time, energy, financial resources nor qualifications to attempt, my anecdotal explanation would be that some sort of toxic dissolved organic buildup in the aquarium water column is interfering with the fishes metabolic processes.
<Agreed re some "chemical-physical" component here>
in almost every case a fine sand substrate has been used, live and otherwise, which could likely result in anoxic or anaerobic zones that could release some nasty toxic d.o.c.'s like hydrogen sulfide. but then again, I've also seen this occur in fish-only tanks with a #3 or #5 grade crushed coral, so go figure. as I stated earlier, this phenomenon occurs in a wide range of aquaria and water parameters and in every case the fish is offered a fully balanced nutritional regime. perhaps it's occurrence is somehow related to collection, shipping and acclimation practices and their long term effect on the fish's immune system and osmo-regulation.... but now I'm grasping at straws.
<I don't think it's collection, holding, shipping... almost all Zebrasoma flavescens are collected out of Hawai'i (am out there now, and visit a few months a year usually, including w/ friends in the "trop." industry... Their methods, holding systems are close to ideal... and the animals only held for a short while... a few days to about a week max.>
interestingly enough, I have seen the telltale symptoms develop very quickly - almost overnight, rather than develop over a matter of weeks or months as it usually does, whenever stray ozone finds it's way into the aquarium, either via ozonizers with no carbon filtration, or via uv sterilizers. but ozone toxicity can't be attributed to every case since many of the aquariums with yellow tangs displaying the symptoms don't have either appliance. still, this connection might be a valuable clue to those with a background in biochemistry. I have also considered the possibility that commonly used pvc glues or other plastic plumbing fittings may be releasing toxins over time, but again, I have no empirical data to support this conjecture.
<Interesting... would not be hard to test these hypotheses>
anyway, this is an all too common disease that certainly deserves some attention from us professional aquarium folk. I have also seen this occur to a more limited extent with pacific blue tangs as well, and hole-in-the-head facial erosions seem to be part of the symptoms as well in every case. btw, I have checked for stray voltage, which is almost always a factor in the hole-in-the-head cases I've investigated with angelfish and tangs. while in some cases there has been a few volts present, such was not the case in most every instance of the yellow tang fin erosion and color fade phenomenon.
<Yes>
so let us know what you guys can dig up on this one.
<Mmm, I too do exceedingly little science, but "borrow" ala Watson and Crick, syncretize others findings, observations... I do think there is still a nutritional component at play here... or at least an ability to counter whatever root cause/s with supplementation>
oh, and kudos to you all for your Herculean efforts and keep up the great work!
Shane Clayton
owner/operator AquaTech aquariums
manager capitol aquarium
Sacramento, ca
<Danke. Bob Fenner>

Tangs/Health   10/11/06
Hello.
<Hi Jerry.>
First off I'd like to say this is a great site for anything saltwater related.
<And freshwater.>
I have a 55 Gal saltwater tank now for about 3 1/2 months. I have the following fish:
Yellow Tang, Blue Tang, Chocolate Chip Starfish, Damsel, Clarkii Clown, Percula Clown, and a Purple Pseudochromis.
My levels are as follows:
Ph=8.2
Ammonia=0.5
Nitrate=15
Nitrite=0
Salinity=1.021
Last week I noticed that my yellow tang was rubbing up against the rocks in my tank and had reddish sores on his body (I have a picture but the quality stinks, so I didn't send it).  I researched your site and discovered that he has "open red sores".  I then went to my LFS and asked them what to do and they recommended Melafix to solve the problem.  I used the Melafix in my tank for 7 days, took out my activated carbon,  turned off my protein skimmer, and then did a 25% water change on the eight day.  The symptoms seemed to go away for about a day, then today I noticed that the Yellow Tang's symptoms returned.  I also noticed that my blue tang is starting to scratch himself against the rocks too.  My question is should I treat with the Melafix again?
<Did you treat for the recommended duration?  May want to try Maracyn II.>
Should I switch to a different product?  I know that my ammonia levels are slightly high....I'm currently working to lower them. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
<Your tank is too new and too small for keeping tangs along with being overstocked to begin with.  Your problems are due to environmental stress more than anything else.>
Thanks
<You're welcome.  James (Salty Dog)>
Jerry

Blonde Naso Tang problem   9/2/06
Hello, I hope you can give me some advice.  I have a blonde Naso tang that I've cared for since April 2000.  He is about 25 cm long, full-bodied, and up until this morning, healthy.
"Blondie" usually eats from my hand, however today will not eat anything.  He has a bulge about half way down his right side.
<One sided I'll take it>
There is no outward ulceration, however he does have several little nips on his underbelly, I presume from the engineer gobies at feeding time.  These little markings have been around for quite some time.  He has no outward signs of disease (no redness on gills, no torn fins, his eyes seem clear, etc.), except he's acting different.  Instead of eating, he swims up to the glass with his bulge towards me and works his mouth, almost as if he is gasping.
Blondie shares a 75 gal.
<Too small>
tank with a brown sailfin tang, 2 engineer gobies (about 20cm each), 2 clown fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a brittle star fish. Everyone else seems fine.
Thank you for your time; I really hope you can help me.
Best regards,
Sue Kavelman
<Mmm... it may be that this Naso has "just" swallowed too much gravel (they do this, analogous to the "crop" of chickens) and is suffering some sort of gut blockage... Perhaps addition of Epsom Salt (see WWM re) will help move this. Otherwise, offering of algae (on a feeding clip is best, so you can monitor, keep it from the Pholodichthys...). In the longer term (if there is one), this fish needs much larger quarters... at least a six foot length run/world. Bob Fenner>

Re: Blonde Naso Tang problem  - 09/02/06
Thanks for the quick reply.  My responses are below.
> Hello, I hope you can give me some advice.  I have a blonde Naso tang that I've cared for since April 2000.  He is about 25 cm long, full-bodied, and up until this morning, healthy.
> "Blondie" usually eats from my hand, however today will not eat anything.
> He has a bulge about half way down his right side.
> <One sided I'll take it>
[Yes, just the right side, and I don't think it's getting any larger.]
> There is no outward ulceration, however he does have several little nips on his underbelly, I presume from the engineer gobies at feeding time.
> These little markings have been around for quite some time.  He has no outward signs of disease (no redness on gills, no torn fins, his eyes seem clear, etc.), except he's acting different.  Instead of eating, he swims up to the glass with his bulge towards me and works his mouth, almost as if he is gasping.
> Blondie shares a 75 gal.
> <Too small>
[You're right, we have quite a bit of live rock in the tank - do you think I should remove several pieces to allow more swim room?  It will be hard to part with him, but if he recovers from this illness, I will find him a new home.]
<Needs at least a six foot long system...>
> tank with a brown sailfin tang, 2 engineer gobies (about 20cm each), 2 clown fish, 2 cleaner shrimp and a brittle star fish. Everyone else seems fine.
> Thank you for your time; I really hope you can help me.
> Best regards,
> Sue Kavelman
> <Mmm... it may be that this Naso has "just" swallowed too much gravel (they do this, analogous to the "crop" of chickens) and is suffering some sort of gut blockage... Perhaps addition of Epsom Salt (see WWM re) will help move this.
[I read the FAQ on Epsom Salts and have a couple of questions.  In reply to an enquiry from 3/1/2006 regarding the safety of Epsom salts in the main display, it was recommended to reduce the usual dose by half.  The advice reads that instead of 1 tablespoon/5 gal to reduce the amount to 1 teaspoon/10 gal, which is actually quite a bit less than half.  My tank is rated at 75 gal and there is quite a bit of live rock, so I've estimated there is only about 40 gallons of actual water in the tank.
<Likely a good guess>
  I dosed the tank with 4 teaspoons of Epsom salts this morning and aside from annoying all the fish in the tank, nothing has happened to lessen the swelling on Blondie's side.  (I think your diagnosis of a blockage could be correct as I don't recall seeing any defecation in the last few days.)  How long should I wait before expecting some results?  Should I dose again with the same amount of salts or change the dosage?]
<Takes a few days to a couple of weeks... I would replace/replenish the Epsom with the commensurate amount of seawater removed/replaced>
Otherwise, offering of algae (on a feeding clip is best, so you can monitor, keep it from the Pholodichthys...).
[I've tried offering fresh Caulerpa (?) from my daughter's tank, however no one in the tank seems interested in it.
<Mmm, Nasos don't generally find Caulerpaceans palatable... eat more Brown and Red Divisions...>
I usually feed dried Spirulina
algae flakes and offer dried seaweed in the veggie clip - are you recommending a specific kind of algae?]
<At the Division level, yes>
In the longer term (if there  is one), this fish needs much larger quarters... at least a six foot length run/world. Bob Fenner>
<Bob Fenner>

Re: Attn: Bob Fenner- Naso Tang problem  - 09/02/06
Sorry, I don't understand what you mean.  I dosed the tank with 4 tsps of Epsom salts dissolved in the top up water I was adding this morning.
<Good>
Should I just leave things as they are or add more Epsom?
<Only replace the part/percentage of Epsom removed if/when you change out water...>
We were going to do a water change this weekend (usually about 20 gal.) - is this okay, and if so, how much Epsom salts should I add after the change?
<Two teaspoons>
When you refer to algae Divisions, is that a brand name?  
<Mmm, nope... is the botanical taxonomic equivalent to zoological phylum, plural, phyla... The Phaeophyta and Rhodophyta in this case>
I know of no source for live algae, however red and brown dried in sheets is available - will that suffice?
<Ah, yes. This is it. Sorry for the lack of clarity. Bob Fenner>
Thanks,
Sue

Complications arising from treatment for Ich on a Acanthurus achilles   9/1/06
Hi Bob,
<Matt>
Firstly thank you so much for taking the time to read and reply.
About seven weeks ago I purchased an Achilles tang after years of wanting one I finally felt I had the system capable of supporting one.
He initially went into my refugium for a month and proceeded to do very well with no signs of ill health and eating voraciously, after being introduced into the display he showed a few spots for about 10 days before he worsened considerably.
I made the decision to remove him to Hypo at that point. I lowered him to what I thought was 1.009 however later discovered it to be 1.012 due to a faulty hydrometer. Whilst in hypo he degraded into the worst case of Ich I have ever seen. The fish was totally listless and unable to move effectively. I was concerned that I may have a strain resistant to Hypo so decided to administer a half dose of Cupramine.
Within three days all signs of Ich had abated, and with the specific gravity being maintained at 1.010 I decided to replace the carbon and remove the Cupramine. Now five days later the Ich has not returned, respiratory rate is normal.
<Good>
My problem is the fish is still very listless, unable to control his orientation and is not eating.
<Not too surprising>
Could I have somehow poisoned him with Cupramine or would a massive Ich infection cause enough electrolyte imbalance to cause these ongoing symptoms?
<Perhaps a bit of both>
I am at a loss, I don't know whether to slowly raise the salinity once more in the hope that may help or whether to wait it out.
<I would raise the spg... a thousandth per day or so>
It has been about a week now since he last ate and I am concerned that he will become to weak to recover.
<Me too>
Thank you in advance for your reply
Matt
<Life to you my friend. Bob Fenner>

Bubble in Tang's Eye...GBD? - 08/27/06
Hi,
<<Hello Deb>>
I have a tang who had tiny air bubbles in her eye, then the next day the tiny bubbles became two larger one then the next day they merged into one big bubble.
<<Can't say I've ever seen this before...still, is possibly the result of an injury or environmental condition>>
Is this the same as POPEYE, or is this something different?
<<Something different, as stated.  Popeye infections generally affect BOTH eyes>>
Also I see that Epsom salt is recommended for Popeye,
<<Mmm, not really...a true Popeye infection would require an antibiotic treatment, but the Epsom Salt may prove beneficial in this case>>
if this is what she has can the Epsom salt be added to my tank with the other fish or should she be put into a smaller tank.
<<Separation/quarantine would likely make it easier to observe/treat this fish, but the Epsom Salt can be added to the display tank if you so wish (a level teaspoon per ten gallons actual water volume is recommended)>>
Also how long can you use the Epsom salt?
<<As long as perceived necessary...will not need to be re-dosed until you perform a water change>>
She is eating but her balance seems off and she looks like sometimes she bumps into things.
<<Indeed...peripheral sight/field-of-view is affected, though the loss of "balance" may indicate another problem...emphysematosis, Gas Bubble Disease>>
Can tiny micro-bubbles in tank cause this or is this just something that fish just get?
<<Ahh, yes...is this an issue in your system?  If so, definitely remove the tang for treatment...and see here about rectifying the bubble situation in your display: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/bubtroubfaqs.htm >>
I thank you in advance for your help.
<<I'm happy to assist>>
I Love this fish and will try anything I can to help her.
Deb
<<Remove the tang and treat as described...and fix your bubble problem.  Regards, EricR>>

Re: Bubble in Tang's Eye...GBD?   8/27/06
Hi Eric,
<<Deb>>
Thanks for your advice.
<<My pleasure>>
I tried to get into the web site you posted but could not for some reason any other you may suggest?
<<How strange...try going to the WWM home page (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/index.html)...scroll to the bottom of the page...click the 'dot' for WetWebMedia...enter "bubble trouble" in the box and click 'Search'...select the first WWM link at the top of the page.  This will take you to the page I sent in our first correspondence>>
Thanks
Deb
<<Cheers, EricR>>