Yellow Tang, Crypto, Reading -- 11/04/2009
Hi,
<Hey there! JustinN here!>
I have a yellow tang in a 55g tank i also have 3 yellow tail damsels, 1 bicolor Dottyback, and 2 scooter blennies. The tank has been up since September-19-09.
<This tank is too small ultimately for the Tang, and likely too immature to support even a single scooter blenny, much less two. The tang has potential to outsize the tank very quickly, and the scooter blennies are obligate fauna feeders -- they will pick your tank clean of their necessary food source quickly.>
I got a yellow tang on October-3-09 and he was doing fine until I had a ich infection which i treated with Kordon Rid-Ich+.
<Treated in your display? This should be done in a quarantine tank.>
I am still treating with this the yellow tang has no visible signs of ich but the Dottyback does.
<Is parasitic, and communicable to all fish in a mixed display here. This is why Quarantine is so important.>
I have just noticed (about 3 days ago) red spots on the Yellow tang and they seem to be getting worst by the day.
<Sounds like chemical burn/irritation here>
He looks like he has hole in head. The red spots are at the tail. I can't identify what they are. My tanks recent test values are as follows: Nitrate-30, Nitrite-0, Alkalinity-300, pH-7.9.
<What is your Salinity at? Your pH is a bit low, should be in the 8.1-8.3 range -- Nitrate should be at, or as close to, 0 as possible. The nitrate alone may be enough to cause the burning, but if the Formalin/Malachite
solution is being dosed too highly, this could easily cause the 'burning' as well."
Their is a small electrical current measuring .002v in the tank.
<Most likely unrelated, but there shouldn't be stray voltage in your tank.>
The filtration is a emperor 400 filter and a coral life super skimmer for a 125g tank.
<The main thing you need here is some reading -- your tank is very immature, and is likely still going through its establishing nitrogen cycle. Exacerbating this is your stocking levels -- you have too many fish, far too soon, and the tank is still attempting to establish its biota balance. In addition to this, by treating your display tank with the Formalin/Malachite compound, you are effectively killing all beneficial bacterium/biological filtration available in your tank. These medications treat indiscriminately. More reading is in order -- start here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/formalinart.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm http://wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/watrqualmar.htm
http://wetwebmedia.com/nitratesmar.htm
 and related subheadings. -JustinN>

Tangs... a bunch of hooey and a direction to read re protozoan infested systems  05/23/09
Okay first I have a 90 reef set up where I have a Blue Hippo 5" and a yellow tang 4.5" and a 3.5" blue eyed kole tang living happily together. I also have several small angels mixed happily as well.
<Several as in the M.E. "many?">
So please don't always act like it can't be done with these dramatic it is horror stories...
<I don't>
second is where I am having the problem and thought I would add that 5 fairy wrasses live happily in this tank without all the horror stories...
<Who is reading your fishes these horror stories?>
it is my 75 reef tank. I can't get a tang to live in there. I just finally found out that a hitch hiker on my live rock; this tang disease or black spot or black ick might be the culprit.
<Nah... an old roomie (Mike Kent) worked extensively on Paravortex... not "that" deleterious a (space) parasite>
The Tangs I have put in look like dust is on them in the morning
<Oh! This is a Protozoan... likely Cryptocaryon>
and I have 2 cleaner wrasses
<Labroides not advised... and won't "cure" such issues>
in there and they would have them clean in no time I also have 2 cleaner shrimp as well, plus the fairies clean as well I have noticed. Now I know wrasses eat flat worms
<Mmm, no... only a few wrasses eat some kinds/species of Platyhelminths... most are very unpalatable>
and this tang black spot ick is said to be a flat worm so why aren't they gone yet?  I can't use copper in the tank because of the coral and the only ones dying are any tangs I put in there. I raised a yellow eye kole in my micro reef and let him in there, thinking it was poor quality fish from the stores. Even he didn't survive past a month. I left it without tangs for over a month and it comes back. I have tried many kinds of different tangs and they always die in the first week. How do I get around this?
<... you have an entrenched (resident) Crypt infestation... Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/parasittksfaqs.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Re: Tangs... another day, more reading 05/24/09
Thanks, I wasn't saying the responder directly was saying the horror stories but when I read thru the FAQs I saw a lot of complaints about mixing tangs...sorry if I offended
<No worries Rev>
I read up on this crypt thing and I think that is it. I saw it takes up to 90 days
<Most times, cases, sooner than this>
to die off in the tank and treat it typically like ick to kill it with lower salinity and above 80 temps.
<One approach>
They survived last summer when ac broke at 85 so I will let it dance into the low 80s and take the sal, to 1.020 to help speed the process.
<Won't do it>
One last question I saw it said Rabbitfish and surgeons(tangs) get it, but some of the stuff I read sounded like other fish could be affected.
<All species are to degrees susceptible>
My other fish have lived for months with no problems will they be safe as the crypt dies off while I wait out this 90 day period to kill it off.
<Read on... your other fishes are just sub-clinical... BobF>

Re: Tangs with White Spot (possible Crypt) Overstocking. 4/29/2009
Sorry for thee lack of information
<Hello Youssef, no problem>
My tank 55 gallons with sump; mechanical filter and wet and dry.
Inside I have 4 small blue tangs (hippo)
<There is no way four hippo Tangs will survive in a 55 gallon tank.>
1 large Sailfin < Grows to 16", needs a minimum of 150 gallons, 300 gallons would actually be better.>
2 Pseudochromis <Aggressive>
1 small blue damselfish <Aggressive>
2 percula clown fish <Aggressive>
1 small yellow wrasse
2 yellow clown gobies
2 cleaner shrimps
1 blue cleaner wrasse
Thanks in advance
<Youssef, your tank is dangerously overstocked. The mix of fish you have in this tank is not sustainable. It is likely that your hippo Tang does have Ich Hippo Tangs are more vulnerable to it than most, especially when stressed.>
<You will need to set up some sort of hospital or quarantine tank.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichart2mar.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/quaranti.htm>
<Do consider returning most of these fish to the store. Do read here
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/stocking1.htm >
<Mike>

Re: More Re: Hurricanes, Ick, and the like...  11/17/08 Bob, <Tom> Thanks for the follow up. I don't have questions much as updates. I had a lengthy discussion with Dr. Bryan at Natl. Fish Pharm regarding this disease. I have not had any success in treating it. I have kept Quinine in the water constantly, always with the same results - Ich present the next morning, only on this one fish. The Tomato Clown has shown some cysts present, but not always, and no where near the number as on this Atlantic Blue Tang (100+). <Dang!> Dr. Bryan said what you said in your reply... that something might be pulling the medication out of the system. There is no carbon in the tank, nor any poly filters. The UV filter has been off. The protein skimmer has been running, but only for water flow - the air intake has been off so it has not been skimming. If something is pulling medication out of the water, <The substrate... alkaline earth materials... mainly calcium, magnesium... little doubt> it is a mystery to me. The filtration is as follows: Fluval FX5, bio-media only; 150 gallon rated wet/dry filter, bio balls, standard blue/white filter pad rinsed weekly; Prism Pro skimmer with air flow turned off. Last night, I did a 20% water change and put the skimmer back on. The water quality has been deteriorating due to medication and lack of skimming, to the point where now I've got Cyanobacteria and excessive algae blooms. I have been doing partials throughout the treatment, but with the excessive treatment length and lack of skimming, I'm thinking the fish are suffering more from poor water quality than the parasite. <I agree with you> One interesting thing was that the last time I had to use this treatment, the quinine killed the Cyano... now it is not. It does seem like the medication is not in the water. So I guess I do have a question... how could medication be removed from the tank? <Again... mostly the chemical family mentioned (second column from the left in Mendelevian periodic charts... to lesser extents other materials in the water... I would move the fishes, treat elsewhere, sans substrate, other carbonaceous materials> I'm to the point where I'm thinking I may have to let this run its course. I have to move to a new house in a week and break this entire tank down. I won't take these fish to any dealer for fear of introducing this resistant strain of ick into any other systems. If all the fish die, then I can let it sit fallow for a few months, though I wonder if the ick will be gone even with that course of action. I hate the thought of doing that, though. I have some copper safe and a test kit, which I have not used. I'm sure that if I put that in there, all that live rock will absorb copper and be worthless from that point on. I've attached the best picture I could take of the tang, not that you can make much of the photo. <Is "beat"... thin... Do consider treating all in an "empty" setting> Thomas Roach <Bob Fenner>

Re: Tang with powerful ich, re discussion Wednesday 11/17/2008 Hey, Mr. Fenner <Tom> I saw your reply posted on WetWeb, and haven't gotten the email yet so I wanted to add one bit of info. He does look 'beat' and thin... Wednesday night I gave him a FW dip to try and give him some relief, ph adjusted, for about 4 minutes. He still looks rough from that, but is eating well. I'm looking at some options for treating in a bare tank, and this is one of them, tell me your opinion.... When I move this tank this weekend, in theory I can set it up bare initially. I could leave the LR in a cooler with a powerhead while I do this, as long as necessary to let the LR go fallow. I've had a portion of LR, along with snails, hermits and starfish now for about a month, and I'm leaning towards leaving them separate even longer to fallow it out. The tank is 200 gallons, and running it with the filtration listed in the other email and quinine, would the bio media in the wet/dry and the FX5 be enough to eliminate ammonia/nitrite build up? <Should be, though there may be a lag time, a minor "mini-cycle"> Of course I'll be monitoring it, just wondering what you would expect. I think I'm not going to worry about the sand, as far as preserving bacteria. I'm going to give it a good freshwater rinsing to clean it before putting it back in, figuring the majority of the beneficial bacteria is on the LR anyhow. If this is the way to go, it will be done. Even if this fish passes, I'll be unable to add any other fish due to the presence of this scourge... I have to kill it one way or the other. Thomas Roach <Only experience can/will show here. Bob Fenner>