Sick/dying clowns – 03/03/09
Hi Crew,
<Tim>
I have a bit of a problem/ situation that I'm hoping you can help me out with.
<Me too>
About a month ago I purchased a pair of wild caught clowns
<Mmm, captive produced are far superior... and not enough room likely... what species?>
from quite a reputable store for my 20 gallon tank (Approx. guess on the gallons as we use litres over here in Oz - 87 litres if that helps).
All was good for the first 3 weeks until I noticed that the female clown had an abrasion on the last white stripe before her tail ended, which seemed to be bleeding, and the black part of her tail had gone a whitish colour. From what I could see the damage to her tail looked to be physical at this stage and presumed that she may have been hit by a fallen piece of live rock that I found laying in the sand bed.
After consulting a staff member at my LFS, he suggested I give her fresh water baths to prevent infection/disease,
<Returning the fish to the same system...>
and to keep an eye on her to be sure her situation didn't change. About three days and a few baths later, she seemed to be fine... the whole time eating and acting like her usual self. Then about 2 days after this her tail around the area started to deteriorate and she lost about half of it over night. I bathed her a few more times over the next day and a bit
before finding her dead.
The whole time she was sick her partner was fighting fit and showed no signs of the sickness that his female friend had. When I found her dead she seemed to have white spots all over her body so I kept a close eye on the male making sure that he didn't contract anything from her. A week had passed and he looked just as healthy as ever so I bought him a new mate - a wild caught clown around twice his size. This was 6 days ago.
I am still relatively new to the marine side of things although I have had fresh water tanks for quite a few years and have been reading up on your site as much as possible and have learnt quite alot of things from you and you wonderful team. I don't have the resources at the moment for a QT tank but, as suggested in many of you FAQ's, gave his new tank mate a fresh water bath before placing her/it in the tank with him.
<Good>
The next morning, much to my disappointment i found him hardly breathing and with white spots all over his body and his new tank mate with a few spots on her body. Unfortunately they both passed away :(
<...>
The reason(s) I am writing to you is 1. Could the problem with the first female clown have been a disease/parasite that she had before I got her and not from a possible landslide in the tank?
<Of a certainty, yes>
2. Could this parasite have been living in the in-between her dying and her mate getting sick?
<Could>
& 3. If the answer to question 2 is yes... How can I eliminate the problem?
<... a few possibilities... the most sure, bleach the existing system, in place... rinse, refill, rinse, refill... Add new seawater, have time go by... Other possible protocols include treating the water or not, having weeks go by sans fish hosts...>
I am very persistent with my tank maintenance and all levels of Ammonia and Nitrites are Zero, there is the slightest trace of Nitrate but not anything that I could see being a problem. SG 1.024, PH is a little low at between 7.9 - 8.0 and temp. at 25 degrees C.
Any light that you could shed on the issue would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to your response,
Thank you in advance,
Tim,
Newcastle, Australia
<If it were me/mine Tim, I'd go the bleach route... and either secure tank-bred clowns (Ocellaris or Perculas in such a small volume) or run wild of the same species through dip/baths before introduction. See WWM re all topics. Bob Fenner>

Ocellaris Clownfish with Pop eye. The usual: lack of data, not reading, using WWM  – 2/21/09
Hello. I have a 55 reef that I just added a beautiful radiant wrasse to. One of the wrasse's eyes was blue; I didn't think anything of it (it was clear and the fish acted healthy), until my ocellaris developed popeye and the eye turned blue. Other than that he seems normal. I heard that popeye can be caused by gas (specifically microbubbles) getting stuck behind the eye. Is this true?
<Mmm, yes... to be clear/er... this "condition" (Exophthalmia) can be caused by several factors>
I did run a new protein skimmer that created many, many microbubbles right before the condition developed. What do you think the cause of the popeye is?
<W/o data... can't tell...>
How should I proceed? Thank you so much for your time and your consideration.
<Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/PopeyeCause.htm
and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Brooklynellosis... not likely  2/16/09 I have two clowns and a baby Sailfin in a 29 gallon. <Mmm... oh, I see below> (the baby Sailfin is going in a 150 gallon when he gets big enough, but right now he's far too small to be will the bigger fish...I'm talking maybe the size of a half dollar.) <Wow. Tiny> Well I introduced him into the tank with my two clowns about 2 weeks ago. I notices yesterday that my larger clown has a spot on his left side... It is white and it almost looks like he got stung, or its a fungus of some sort. He hosts a frogspawn and always sucks on the tentacles, his lips get swollen on occasion. I was just wondering, could my Sailfin could have introduced a parasite into my tank? <Mmm, one spot? I'd not jump to conclusions> My other clown is fine swimming around but the larger one is worrying me. He never really swims away from his frogspawn...could he gave gotten stung? <Yes> I might be jumping to conclusion I was just looking for expert advice. <Let's see your next email. BF> Brooklynellosis 2/16/09 The spot I'm pertaining to is located behind his middle stripe <Too blurry to tell what this is. Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm and the linked files above. Bob Fenner>

Brooklynellosis 2/16/09 Should I qt? He was swimming around last night, and he's still alive this morning...he ate. Suggestions? <Read>

New Captive-Bred "Clownfish Disease"? 02/09/09
Dear Crew -
<Marty>
Bob Fenner has spoken of the phenomenal vitality of captive-bred Clownfishes. I don't doubt that tank-bred clownfish have a much better overall survival record than wild-caught. But experience now teaches me that some issues are creeping into tank bred populations - at least those supplying shops in New England.
I recently acquired a group of ocellaris clowns as a starter for a 300-gallon marine tank. While initially all seemed healthy, after a couple of weeks I noticed that one specimen was exhibiting lethargic behavior and very rapid breathing, and moved it to a hospital tank. Within a few days, three more had to be moved. Soon I observed long, thin, white feces hanging from the afflicted fish. I have now gone about a week with no problems manifested by the display tank fish, but have had no luck with the hospital tank.
<Mmm, do you have access to a low-power microscope? I'd like to see images of this fecal material>
Meanwhile, I returned to the retailer and studied the remaining individuals in the tank from which I purchased my group. About a half dozen were in extremis, with exactly the same symptoms as mine. No visible external symptoms at all. Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium and Brooklynellosis are out.
I spoke with the owner of the shop. He said that, from time to time, he receives a shipment of clownfish that are afflicted in this way. Always captive bred. He has had little or no success treating the affected fishes. He suggested that the only effective treatment might be formaldehyde (not formalin), but was pessimistic even about that.
<Mmm, this won't work... the problem is lumenal...>
Meanwhile, I have used Cupramine, PraziPro and metronidazole - all with no success.
<Dang! How were these administered?>
Now using formalin (first as a bath, now in the hospital tank) plus Epsom salts (to loosen fecal material), but the rapid breathing continues.
<Time to try quinine compounds>
Obviously, I'm looking for treatment ideas, but I was also curious whether this is a phenomenon observed elsewhere.
<I have not seen consistent reports re this... Are these fish from a particular vendor/source? E.g. ORA?>
Finally, I am looking for thoughts as to how long the display tank should be watched (with no new victims) before any new (fully-quarantined) fish are added. I'm thinking at least a month. (I've considered the "go fallow" approach - removing all remaining fish to another tank for a month - but since I have no reason to believe that the agent survives anywhere but within the fish themselves and intend to keep my lovely healthy specimens, I don't see the point.)
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Marty
<Again... am wanting to see photomicrographs of the stringy waste... Bob Fenner>

Black and white clownfish color loss... lack of fdg., data  1/15/09
Okay so... I have a black and white clownfish about 2 years old eats pellet and mysis hates flake. So this week I noticed that she had a white stripe from arm fin to start of tail fin about half and inch wide. Not so much white as it is a pale black discoloration.
<Stress coloration... Something/s amiss here>
She is still eating spectrum pellets but puts the mysis in her mouth and spits it out?
<Another bad sign>
I tried to catch her to put her in a qt but she wasn't having it. I've done searches and don't know what this could be? I've had ick before and velvet and I've seen a clown with brook.. it doesn't seem like any of those. The fish is not slimy in anyway just like she was tagged on both sides in the exact same spot...so what gives?? Please help I don't want to lose her.
Thanks,
Alyssa
<Let's default, check on the most likely cause here... water quality... Test for accumulated metabolites... For most folks this is just Nitrates... at any length, serial dilutions (water changes), the use of GAC (carbon)... are useful. Send data please... water tests. Bob Fenner>

Re: black and white clownfish color loss 1/19/09
Hi-
I have done all my tests and my readings are some what normal, except I need to lower my nitrates.
<I see>
Ammonia-0
Nitrate-30
Nitrite-0
PH- 8.2
Cal-480
<Ooh, this is a bit high... might be an issue... especially if you're Magnesium is far out of balance (should be in an approximately 3:1 ratio with Ca>
KH-179
Do you think that any of these reading would possible make the clown have a white stripe on him?
<I am doubtful that "this is it" in terms of root cause... Likely something else that is not mentioned (social let's say) or other chemical issue...
When, where in doubt, I'd do some serial water changing... perhaps add some activated carbon and/or Polyfilter to your water flow path>
Thanks,
Alyssa
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Re: black and white clownfish color loss 1/19/09
Dear Mr. Fenner-
<Just Bob please>
I am almost certain it was my mean Cherub Angel.
<Ahh! This could definitely be "it">
I have since pulled out the angel and the clown is looking better day by day. I thought enough time had elapsed so I placed the cherub back in the tank and he was okay for a little while, however I recently acquired a Mystery Wrasse.
<A really neat fish... do make sure your tank is covered... the genus are notorious jumpers>
I was warned the Mystery would be a bully, however it was quite the opposite and the Cherub chased the Mystery endlessly along with the clown. Needless to say the Angel is in QT and most likely going to be sold :(.
As far as my numbers go, you are saying my nitrates are high?
<Is a good idea to keep under 20 ppm... actually, the lower the better...
Not necessarily toxic by itself, NO3 can be indicative of other metabolite accumulation, a loss of RedOx, low DO...>
I do run carbon and a poly filter, however I have heard that these are Nitrate factories?
<Mmm, can contribute if exposed to a good deal of waste over time>
I also was feeding heavily due to the white stripe. I thought if I feed heavily it would keep up immunity. I have since then pulled the carbon and the poly filter due to my readings that they were Nitrate factories. I have done another water change and I was going to retest the water tonight. As for the Mag, I don't test for Mag? Should I be testing for Mag?
<Mmm, not really... if you don't keep biomineralizing life... and don't supplement for such... Better for most Fish Only and FOWLR systems to rely on water changes to keep all about right/balanced. Please read here re:
http://wetwebmedia.com/marine/maintenance/maintindex.htm
scroll down...>
The KH was wrong, apparently I didn't divide by the number I should of and I had a friend help me. He said my KH was actually 10.
<Ahh, a danger in not stating units of measure... I taught H.S. level chemistry and physics...>
Please let me know what if any stats I need to lower.
Thank you,
Alyssa
<Please peruse the above reference area. BobF>

True Percula Problem 12/18/08
Hi there, I hope you can help.
<Will certainly try.>
I recently bought two True Percula Clowns from my local aquatics store. I was told they are wild caught and already a pair even though only about an inch in size.
<Better to get captive raised, generally healthier, more adapted to captive life along with the environmental considerations.>
I didn't really want wild caught clowns as I know they are not as hardy as captive bred which I have now found out.
<Yep>
They would not eat and now one has died. I've tried everything I can think of to feed them, frozen, flake, pellets and live foods. Nothing seems to work.
<Not a good sign.>
My water parameters in my 30 gallon tank are all good except for a high reading of nitrate,
<May be partly the problem.>
but my corals and bubble tip anemone are doing great.
<Be aware that combining corrals and anemones in this small of a tank can be problematic.>
Could the high nitrate be the cause?
<Doubt it is the root cause unless it is very high, but a contributing factor likely.>
They were a bit sulky in the store, but I was told that was just because they needed an anemone, but I think I was silly to buy them in the end.
<Definitely never buy a fish who's health is in question in the store, and clowns most definitely do not need an anemone to be healthy and happy.>
Do you think my remaining clown can be saved? Or am I looking at wasting £60 ?
Clint
<With wild caught fish diagnosing issues such as this can be quite difficult. It could be just stress/damage from shipping and adapting to captivity, internal parasites, or a host of other more common diseases. See here for more http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm .>
<Chris>

Re: True Percula Problem  12/20/08
Hi there! Thanks for the quick response! There is nothing physically wrong with the remaining clownfish other then the fact he is still not eating.
His colors are still bright and he's still swimming in the top corner of the tank. Do you think there is a chance he will be ok and start eating?
<Could once he becomes for accustomed to his environment assuming he does not have some sort of internal problem.>
Sorry, but I really do want to do best by my fish keeping
Clint
<If you have not already try some live brine shrimp, often can stimulate a feeding response.>
<Chris>

Hoping you can help - Clown Fish Ill  12/17/08
Hi Guys,
<Alex>
Hope all is well, it's been a long time and as a first for me, here comes a fish illness related question. By the way, happy holidays and all that good stuff.
<And to you>
So I have had a reef tank running for ~ 1 1/2 yrs. now and no outbreaks of anything what-so-ever. 3 Days ago, my perfectly healthy and ravenous clownfish stopped eating (frozen and pellets - he would destroy these before). I checked him out carefully and noticed, small white cloudy substances on his body. Mainly the front part of his head, but now is beginning to creep towards his dorsal fin and back body. It's not covering it or anything, but it is noticeable. He has the same (in a stripe) across his eyes, but not covering them entirely like eye cloud and certainly isn't pop-eye (my opinion). Param.s. are perfect. except for Trates, which are hovering at ~10 -15 (working on bringing those down as I type with a H2O change, the second one in as many days. So here comes my pitch as to why I need to save this little guy. He was my first marine fish ever and I can't imagine my aquarium with out him. What can I do? I read about Brooklynella (sp.?), but I'm not quite certain that is it. The pictures I see seem to make him look healthy compared to those fish, although he is certainly not my healthy fish of 3 days ago. Symptoms match, but the photo's seem to make it look a little different.
<And... where would the initial infestation come from?>
I read about a possible bacterial Infection that could be caused by an initial ammonia burn somehow, but my ammonia reads 0 on Salifert and Aquar. Pharm. Trites. are also zero, but just to be safe I have dosed with Prime.
I cant' set a QT up tonight due to lack of Salt and a winter storm in NYC is preventing me from heading to the store earlier. My question I guess becomes, what can I do with the start of a new day tomorrow to help this guys out? Again, about 3 days in to his symptoms and lack of eating, is it too late to QT him and give him some baths in formalin? Should I do the bath (separately from QT obviously), but also add some Myacin-2 to the QT after his baths?
<I wouldn't move this fish to quarantine... maybe to another established system if you have such... I suspect that this is NOT something pathogenic (organism-induced) but perhaps environmental... a run-in with something toxic, stinging in the system...>
Symptoms to be as complete as possible:
-Lethargic, White clouds on body, sits back in a corner when he used to swim the tank, does not eat, heavy breathing and gaping of the mouth, edges of his fins although in tact are cloudy, don't know what else I can mention, but ask away and I will provide immediate responses.
What would you do?
<Either move this fish to another setting, even a refugium tied in... or do my best to improve water quality, feeding, add a cleaner organism (likely a Lysmata sp. shrimp). I would NOT move this fish to a bare, new treatment setting (too stressful) NOR "treat" it with "medicines">
Thank very much!
Alex
<Welcome. Please make it known how this works out. Bob Fenner>

*EDITED* Hoping you can help - Clown Fish Ill  12/17/08
Forgot to mention to the below:
Dosed his food with Zoe and Kent Garlic Extract - this has been continual and not just since symptoms presented themselves (all I have as far as meds.) & no other fish show signs of any symptoms. Will be more proactive going forwards...
Alex
<This is well. Bob Fenner>

Re: Hoping you can help - Clown Fish Ill
Hi Mr. Fenner,
<Mr. Adami>
Quite an honor to get a chance to hear from you, read your books and actually just put one down prior to writing you. I believe you just made my day considering I thought it was the dreaded Brooklynella. Although I know we can't be certain, I will follow your advise and not move the fish into a brand new QT as it would be a first-run set up and not a fuge or existing DT or QT. To answer a question of yours or two, I have not added any new fish or inverts to the Main DT in the last 4 months.
<Ahh... even more reason to discount the presence of a Protozoan here>
Happy with the three fish I have and do not want to over-crowed. My RO/DI water purification system was running a little off last week due to not being proactive with the necessary purchase of replacement cartridges (holidays and all - money went elsewhere) and I did notice a difference in him after the last initial H2O Ch. The only other thoughts that you have sparked in my mind are: 1) He came a little too close to my addition of Seachem reef builder the other day and may have gotten himself a little "singed" 2) went to a new filter media of Purigen from Chemi-Pure Elite both of these were done about a day before symptoms presented themselves.
<Good notes... could be as you state>
Finally, I did a fresh water dip/bath last night (PH and Temp exactly the same as MDT) and this guy was a trooper, this was his first bath in 18 months, since I put him in QT prior to the MDT. He sat on the bottom for about 30 seconds and them swam around in the current for the remaining 18 minutes. I could have sworn he was liking his fresh-water treatment, but certainly looked like he belonged - no worries there and he popped right back up when introduced back into the MDT.
Lastly, I'm not certain I could get away with adding the shrimp you mention, I have two CBR's (sorry I forgot to mention that) they are a mated pair and well, territorial might be an understatement = )..but would be willing to try if you thought there was a chance he could make it.
<Agreed. I would leave out this addition>
So, to recap, I am thrilled to have heard back from YOU. I will do another H2O ch. Tonight with brand new cartridges in place, and will NOT treat with any meds. I will wait and monitor carefully and if symptoms become worse try to research another route.
MANY THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND ALL YOU GUYS DO!
Alex
<Most welcome my friend. BobF>

Re: Hoping you can help - Clown Fish Ill
Thank you again for your reinforcements - sometimes hearing others positive reinforcement solves the anxiety in one's head from spinning out of control and making rash decisions - which we never want to do in our hobby. My best for a Happy, Healthy and Safe New Year to all of you.
<Ah, agreed and thank you>
Aquatically yours,
Alex
<BobF>

Re: Hoping you can help - Clown Fish Ill 1/14/09
Hi Mr. Fenner and Crew,
<Alex>
An update on the below story. I am proud to report that my little trooper pulled through 4 weeks in the QT with Copper Safe, Maracyn Two and Formalin baths finally did the trick. BTW - My QT when set-up had Ammonia levels of 2.0 which I quickly locked up with SeaChem Prime, but I would NOT Recommend this,
<Me neither... too stressful, toxic>
I, unfortunately, had no other choice. There were days where I was reading about Humane Euthanizing as he was really bad, how much should I allow him to suffer for my own selfish reasons was the thinking behind that. Only to say to myself "give it one more day." After about three days of, giving it one more day, it was like he heard me or something, like he knew, I need to buck-up or it's the freezer and then flush city, because he started eating again, regained his color, his stamina and his frisky
attitude. He is now back in my MDT fully healed and competing with my Tangs for food. Although he mostly loses this battle, he gets enough to eat regardless.
<Good>
So once again, even though I did not follow your advise as to not treat and QT, he is back to normal, and I thank you for your time and help.
Regards,
Alex
<Thank you for this update, further input. BobF>

Dropsy Bloat in Clownfish 11/15/08
Hello Bob,
I have a Black and White Clownfish that has all the symptoms of Dropsy Bloat.
<... how do come about this diagnosis? And what do you figure are the net causes?>
I was wondering what you would recommend to treat her.
<Depends... on the second question above>
She is still very active and eating well, i know she is not pregnant because she is still a juvenile. If you could help> me out it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
-Tyler Johnson
<Perhaps a cursory addition of Epsom Salt. Please see WWM re. Bob Fenner>