Does anyone know why I can't keep Ocellaris clownfish alive?? 11/11/09
Hello all! I have had two Ocellaris clownish and I have tried to keep an orange skunk clown. Neither of which survived for more than a about 4 months. I have tested my water and Ammonia is zero as well as nitrite, nitrate,
<Mmm, no, as in zero Nitrate? How is this achieved?>
PH is always steady at 8.2. I have a 55 Gallon acrylic tank with a Magnum 350 canister filter, a powerhead to help circulate water, as well as a bubble disk for my yellow tang. I have a protein skimmer as well. I have put bio-rings in the canister filter as well as carbon and phosp. filter pads.
<Ahh... I would not use such pads... or at least not to the point where there is 0.0 ppm of HPO4>
A heater, at which, I keep the tank around 76-78 degrees. I just don't know why they keep on dying!
<Might just be the chemical filtrant, but I would do a bit more to make the water, system more stable... Add some live rock, perhaps macroalgae>
I have kept all my other fish with no problem. I have a yellow Sailfin tang, bi-color blenny, coral beauty dwarf angel, three scarlet hermits, 5 ninja star snails, and three blue damsels.
<And these last three might be bullying the Clowns... or...>
I also have about 45lbs or so of live rock w/ live sand. I feed red and green marine algae on veggie clips, Spirulina flakes, brine and mysis shrimp (frozen and thawed) all varied. I always keep calcium and DKH in perfect ranges. I sometimes add Marine-C (and mix it with their foods) and always add essential elements and liquid calcium when needed. I add Iodine to help my scarlet crabs molt, which they do about every two months or so.
I feel that I have a good thing going. I do bi-weekly 25% water changes and I just don't know what else to do. What else do clowns eat that I am not giving??
<They should be fine with what you list>
I quarantine them for 6 weeks and they are fine. Maybe it's just something in my main tank.
<Yes... or...>
The orange skunk clown developed the "skinny disease"...
<Mmmm, is a symptom of a few root "causes"... but I think...>
he got rail thin and I took him out and tried to treat him him with Ich Away, as it treats bacterial/parasitic infections as well as it is all organic (so it says). None of my other fish ever got this disease and I have never seen anything else on any of the fish, as I watch it very closely every day. My fish are fat and healthy and have vibrant color. It is very frustrating and maybe I am missing something. Also I just received a small chocolate chip starfish. I have researched and read your WEB site about it. It does not like algae flakes or algae pieces. It will spit them out.
<Correct... tis a "meat eater">
It seems to like tuna and any sort of fish that I feed it in chunks. I want to feed it clam/oyster pieces, but I do live in Oklahoma and we don't have much of that around here. Know of any WEB sites that I maybe can buy some from?
<I would buy a "bag" of mixed seafood (for human consumption) at your grocery store... And defrost a bit... shrimp, bivalve, fish flesh... a couple times a week for this star>
Thanks for your time guys.
Jessica S.
<And last Jessica, perhaps it isn't anything you're doing or not doing, but the "luck of the draw" with these few specimens. I would try ordering, buying your Clowns from another source; the best, maybe someone locally who is breeding/rearing them for sale in the trade. Cheers, Bob Fenner>

Black spots on false percs 10/11/09
Hi Bob,
<Mike>
I am writing to you guys yet again regarding my 54 G mixed reef tank. It has been largely successful thanks to you and your advice. The tank has 40lbs LR, sump filtration, with Deltec MCE 600 skimmer, and run carbon and phosphate remover (bulk reef supply) in a reactor. Parameters are as follows: SpG 1.026, Ph. 8.3, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 0.5, Calcium 410, dKH 3.54, Magnesium 1200. 250 watt 10 K MH. Inhabitants include 2 false percs pair, six line wrasse, and a royal gramma. Corals include Acros, a hammer coral, various zoos and mushrooms.
Recently the clowns have acquired several black spots. The spots do not appear to raised at all, but more like heavily pigmented areas.
<Could be just this>
This did seem to appear overnight. Could this be the black parasite that typically affects yellow tangs?
<Not likely>
If so, is it a life threatening condition.
<Ditto>
They appear to be healthy otherwise. The only recent changes to the tank have been: 1) the pair recently began laying eggs in the tank and have done this about four times. 2) There has been a recent large Vermetid snail "outbreak" in the tank...they are literally all over the live rock and have "smothered" some zoo colonies. 3) some area of coralline algae have been turning from purple to white. Could any of these things be related?
<Possibly>
What should I do with the clowns?
<If they were mine... Nothing. I suspect the markings are "just" stress... from the spawning, perhaps other things going on biochemically in your system>
From reading prior posts I believe you recommend fresh water dips; or should I take a wait and see approach.
Thanks,
Mike
<For me, the latter. Cheers, BobF>

Re: black spots on false Percs 10/25/2009
Hi bob,
<M-ster>
Wait and see worked well and the clowns appear fine. Quick follow-up question. My Vermetid snail problem continues to worsen. I've read the articles and I've tried most of the predators (unsuccessfully) except hermit crabs. In your opinion, which hermit works best for Vermetid snails (zebras seem to be mentioned most). Will these crabs bother any of the zoos, LPS, or Acro's that I have in the reef.
<Could>
Lastly, are Vermetid know to be harmful to coral?
<Not really... can crowd a bit, but not toxic or predatory>
Are they're any other treatments other than natural predators that you are aware of?
<There is ablation... poking them with a metal prod... B>
Thanks again,
Mike

Sick Clownfish? No Information - 09/27/2009
After feeding my clownfish, the next day i
<"I". A note to readers and would-be queriors: please capitalize the letter "I" if you are using it as a pronoun to describe yourself. We're all volunteers here - please, please make our load a little lighter; it really helps us out. Sorry to make an example of your email, Jason. Next time, please do capitalize those "I"s.>
noticed that half of his stomach was still bloated (no growth on the outside or anything and he is still active). Inside the stomach I can see some black matter. Any ideas as to what this is and how to cure it?
<No clue; there's almost no information to go on, here. Maybe it's just that he ate too much. Maybe he ate something in the tank he shouldn't have. Maybe he has a disease of some sort. With so very little
information - absolutely no information about the tank, and no pertinent information about the fish - there's no way we can begin to discern what could be wrong. Please do read on WWM and elsewhere regarding clownfish health, feeding, etc.>
-Jason Quan
<Wishing you well, -Sabrina.>

Percula Clownfish, hlth.  9/22/09
Hi, I have scoured your site and many others to be honest, to come up with an explanation for what is wrong with our Clownfish. I'm coming up empty handed.
We have a 90 gallon saltwater reef tank. The system has been set up since 2004, and in the tank
we have 3 Hippo Tangs, 2 Percula Clownfish, 1 Damsel, Live Rock, Several Corals.
<Of what species?>
Our readings are on mark, all fish appear healthy in size, activeness, appearance, eating. Two nights ago, we noticed the larger of the 2 Clownfish acting strange, whereby, hanging out at the top of the tank, swimming lethargically, appetite is still great. No white spots are apparent, however he is now beginning to lose his color, and around its mouth seems more pale than his body. The smaller clownfish will not leave the other alone, "nit picking" for lack of a better phrase. The clown in question has been at times swimming sideways,
but not laying on its side. Both of the clowns occasionally do a "twitch dance" which I am aware is normal.
None of the fish have "ich", or white spots, or bubbles or lesions. There is no black spots, or clear blisters like spots either. The fins on all fish are fine, and so are the gill areas. I'm so lost!
We have not introduced anything new to the tank, and their diet has remained the same.
Please Help!!!!!!
Pulling at strings here!!!
Thanks so much
Jodi
<Likely "nothing" if the other clown, other fishes are not showing symptoms. Perhaps the one fish nibbled on something in the tank that is not agreeing with it temporarily. I would not be overly concerned. Bob Fenner>

Re: Percula Clownfish   9/23/09
Thanks for getting back to me!
<Welcome>
He is deteriorating, his color is super pale, and hanging out at the top of the tank, more so than not.
<I'd move to another stable set-up, stat!>
Corals include: Toadstools, button polyps, Tree Coral, Devils Hand, mushrooms.
<Could be poisoning...>
We have an anemone for the clowns, not sure exactly which one it is. But again, none of these things
<Oh... definitely allelopathy...>
have just been introduced, they are established in the tank.
<A mistake: Read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/cnidcompppt.htm
and the linked files above. Your system may well be on the verge of bio-collapse. BobF>
Silly as it may sound they all have distinguishing characteristics, and by far this is not like him.

Epsom Salts and Anti-Bacterials... Clownfish dis., reading   9-12-09
Yesterday I removed a common clownfish from my display tank to QT because she was not eating, was acting rather lethargic (hovering over the substrate in one place and not moving very much) and had long, stingy white feces that would hang but not detach. About 8:30 pm, she developed a swollen eye (one
eye, not both). I began a regimen of treatment with Instant Ocean Lifeguard (1-chloro-2,2,5,5-tetramethyl-4-imidazolidinone) figuring the feces, lack of appetite and lethargy pointed toward bacterial infection.
<Mmm, more likely parasitic, or environmental>
Only other fish in the display is a purple Dottyback who is showing no abnormal behavioral signs. A check of the chemistry showed most parameters to be in check (Ammonia and Nitrite = 0, Nitrate was at 40 ppm,
<Much too high by twice...>
pH 8.2, SG 1.24). I performed a 20% water change prior to removal of the clown to QT. Clown's
quarantine tank is new seawater (purchased pre-mixed). My question is, would it be okay to use a bit of Epsom salt in the quarantine tank to reduce the swelling in the clown's eye while using the Anti-bacterial or will the two negate each other?
<Are fine used in combination>
I know that I have to continue the whole coarse
<course>
of treatment with the Lifeguard, less the clown develop a bacterial resistant strain from using it less than proscribed time. If I can use both in conjunction, what is the dose per gallon of Epsom salts?
<Posted... on WWM>
(quarantine tank is 2.5 gallon, using air stone and some old base rock that never sees a display tank, 50% water changes every other day, ambient lighting provided by the display tanks MH).
I appreciate your consideration.
<Appreciate your learning to/using WWM... Please read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm
and the linked files above where you lead yourself. Bob Fenner>

False Percula Prophylactic Treatment: QT is fine. 9/2/2009
Hello
<Hi David.>
I have acquired a pair of false Percula Clowns to add to my 55G with 20G sump reef tank that has never had fish in it. They were identified as tank-raised, but there is no way to know what they may have come in contact with in the dealer's tanks. I have put them into a 10G quarantine tank. I want to avoid introducing disease to my reef tank. After reading a variety of articles on dips, hyposalinity, and various treatments. It is unclear to me whether, in the absence of observed symptoms, if the risks and trauma of treatments outweigh the benefits. Specifically, what course of action would you recommend?
<I would keep them in quarantine for the recommended period of 21 days. A pH adjusted FW dip with either Formalin or Methylene Blue isn't too stressful and will 'knock off' most if not all of the parasites the fish may have.>
<You have probably already read the article, but here it is again if you have any questions about the methods.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm >
Thank You
<My pleasure, do write back if you have any other questions.>
David
<MikeV>

Clownfish not looking well: Likely Allelopathy Too many anemones and polyps in a small space. 8/6/2009
<Hi Anna>
Started our saltwater tank August 2008. We adjusted our tank slowly. We filtered our LR for a whole 30 days, then we added the sand. We waited an additional month and began to add fish and anemone. Knowing what we know now we would have waited longer to add the fish and anemone. We would have
tested our levels better and researched food.
<But you are learning.>
We seemed to be doing well until two months ago. Suddenly our Firefish became listless, not his usual zippy self. His mouth was open and he was gasping. He has been this way for two months now, still alive somehow. I have no idea how his feeding has been. We see him occasionally <Something in the water or some other fish beating him up.>.
Last month one of our percula clowns became listless as well. He laid on the bottom of the tank and just bobbed around in one spot. He didn't appear
to eat much. His mouth was constantly open and turning translucent. He began to lose color in his fins and his stripes began to fade a little into his orange.
<This is a telling clue here,>
He disappeared, we have been unable to find him in our tank. We did notice a spike in our nitrates and we did a water change to correct this last week. Now our other percula clown has developed the same symptoms.
She is listless, not eating, mouth open and paling....none of the fish had any substance come off of them when we performed our freshwater dips. They don't seem to have any dots or splotches on their bodies.
<No, this isn't a disease.>
We want to find out what is wrong before we lose another. We have been unable to find any information
on our fishes symptoms. What are we doing wrong?
<See below.>
tank: 55gallons, fully adjusted for almost a year pH and chemical levels: normal range
<Sorry, pet peeve - What is normal? Actual values make it much easier to diagnose.. salinity: normal <1.023 - 1.026?>
food: anemone- mysis shrimp and silversides, fish- flake food
<Fine.>
occupants: 2 percula clowns, blue damsel, Firefish, blenny, mandarin, hermit crab, 3 snails,
<A bit crowded for a 55, but not too bad. The Mandarin is likely to starve in such a small tank though.>
BTA, LTA, and another type of anemone whose name I have forgotten, and numerous feather tip anemone, polyps, and corals.
<Ding! We have a winner. Too many anemones and polyps in the tank. You essentially have a chemical war going on in your tank between the anemones, and the various corals. Your fish are caught in the crossfire.
You will need to remove at least two of the anemones and likely some of the polyps.. Additionally, do run carbon in your filter to soak up these toxins.>
<Do read here:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/zoanthidcompfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/anemcompfaqs.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/cnidcomp4.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/polypcompfaqs.htm >
<MikeV>

Re:  Clownfish not looking well: Likely Allelopathy Too many anemones and polyps in a small space. 8/7/2009
<Hi Anna.>
Okay, well the polyps and feather dusters and corals and sponge popped up out of nowhere (Hello! *LIVE* rock!).
<Fine.>
At this time we have 4 red polyps and 4 yellow polyps. We have two 1 inch in diameter feather dusters, and many small ones (about 1/4 inch in diameter at most). We have patches of sponge and coral, varying from 1/2 inch in size to 3 inches in size. All of it just showed up once we established our rock and sand.
<Nice hitchhikers.>
We also moved in the beginning of June. We separated the fish (only one clown at this time) and (at the time) one anemone (2 inches across) into bags of salt water, kept our rock submerged in buckets of salt water, kept the sand under one inch of salt water. We moved the tank and its occupants and had it set up and adjusted within two hours. Everything was smooth.
Only our mandarin showed stress, but as soon as we provided fresh copepods, he was fine. Then one week later, Firefish became listless and began losing his color. I just saw him today eating, still not his zippy self.
<Ammonia spike or something toxic in the water...>
We have around 70lbs of live rock (guesstimate) and 60lbs of sand (2 inches deep). Most of our rock is small however, leaving our tank about 30% full.
Our pH is normal: 8.0; Nitrate is normal: 0; Nitrite is normal: 0; and ammonia is normal: 0. We perform 30% water changes every two weeks using RO water and we prime it. Last week, because of the sudden nitrate spike, we performed a 50% water change. We use Reef Crystals salt with calcium and keep our salinity at 1.024.
<This is a telling clue... Where did the nitrate come from? Nitrate comes from decaying organics Something in the tank caused the spike. Either the biological filtration was interrupted, or something is dead\dying.>
Since moving we have added a large rose bubble-tip anemone, about 6 inches when open. We just this week added a third anemone, a Condylactis I believe, about 4 inches when open.
These two remain on opposite sides of the tank, with our tiny 2 inch long-tip anemone in the center. They never bother one another and all eat very well.
<It is never a good idea to mix anemones, particularly ones of different species. They are aware of each other and are 'fighting' - even if you cannot see it. Another important thing to remember, anemones can and do sting, especially slow moving or timid fish - like Firefish>.
I also neglected to inform you that we also have a sand-sifting starfish.
I forgot about him as he is always under sand. We got him after the move, after we got our second anemone (6 inches across). He takes care of our slime.
<Another telling clue. where is the slime coming from? Also, sand sifting stars usually consume everything edible in the sandbed and then starve to death in systems less than 100+ gallons.
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marsiftfaqs.htm >
Now, whatever has happened to our Firefish and first percula clown happened BEFORE we added the new anemones and starfish. Now that the fist percula clown has died, the second is showing the same symptoms (listless, mouth gaping, not feeding, color blending through stripes).
<Again, since your water quality seems ok, we can only conclude that something in your tank is poisoning the fish, either by chemical release or by stinging>
All of the other fish appear fine and quite content.
If it helps any: we have two powerheads on opposite sides of aquarium, one directed up and one directed downward. We have a wave-generator in the center. We also have two filters. The water stays very clean thanks to our cleaning crew (hermit crab, 3 snails, and a starfish).
<Please read the articles I originally referred you to and do consider adding carbon to your filtration system in an attempt to soak up any noxious chemicals in your system.>
<MikeV>

URGENT........Sick Clownfish 7/25/09 Hello I am wondering if you have seen this on a clown fish, or any fish for that matter before. <The interesting darkish band about midriff?> We have had a suggestion it is some kind of Clownfish disease, however, she originally showed no signs of loss of appetite, and no lethargy, nor was/is she hanging out at the top of the tank as suggested gasping for air. I have attached some pictures of the fish and the strange mark that has appeared. It started on one side 6 days ago, a couple of mm's wide by about 1.0 cm long, when we got home about 10:30pm that night and it had spread across her whole middle section on both sides. Fish was displaying no other signs of distress/sickness. We observed her slightly flaring her gills, but nothing that you would notice unless you were really looking hard. The tank itself is in good condition, and none of the other fish are displaying any symptoms. We have relocated her to a QT, with lower salinity. (Note: bringing the salinity back up gradually now) In the last 4 days she has since lost all appetite and seems be struggling. Laying on the bottom of the QT. the gasping has stopped. <Likely mostly due to "just" being moved, acclimating to the new settings> It seemed as soon as we moved her to the QT that is when she lost her appetite. I think it distressed her a lot. <Yes> The mark was going but has now stopped disappearing and the same colour is appearing faintly on her head. We have treated her with Oodinium treatment and also an antifungal over the last 4-5 days with no improvement. <Mmm, I would not treat this fish... I suspect the discoloration is either nervous involvement or some response to stress as you state... The "medicines" will do more harm than help> If you could give me the heads up that would be great. Cheers Heath <This animal will likely self-cure in time. Bob Fenner>

Transient white patches on saddleback clown - like a bad paint job    07/20/09
I'm a big fan of your site and have learned so much from you guys. I did search the site, but can't find anything that addresses a specific problem that has arisen with my female saddleback clownfish. If I've missed something, please let me know.
I've had this fish for about 3 months, during which time she has always been bright, active, and has had a great appetite. She's about 3 inches long, and has grown a lot (nearly an inch) since I got her.
After I had her for about a month, she started occasionally having small patches of discoloration.
<Mmm, what other life is in with this fish?>
No fungus, no fuzz, no spots, no raised scales, no scratching, and the skin on these patches does not appear irritated or red. It's just as if someone just rubbed the black coloring off. They would disappear after a day or two with no apparent (at least to me) pattern.
About a week ago, I was startled to notice that the white patches were back and had gotten bigger. At one point, almost her whole right side was white. That went away after about 5 days, but today, she's got what looks like a sloppy racing stripe down her other side (if you daubed the stripe on with cotton balls). Honestly, it reminds me of the paint on an old Honda I used to drive that had lived through one too many Texas summers.
<Understood>
About the environment: About 3 weeks ago, I added a tiny (1" or slightly less) male. They paired up immediately, and have set up house in the LTA I bought with the female.
<The likely source of the stinging is the Anemone>
Absolutely no aggression.
Both feed aggressively. I give them frozen mysis, New Life Spectrum and Formula One and Two pellets, Cyclopeeze, Arctopods, and, a couple of times a week, the small leftovers from the squid, shrimp, scallops, krill, clams, etc., from what I feed the puffers and eels in another tank (yes, I suffer from Multiple Tank Syndrome).
<Heeeee!>
The tank is a 40 gallon regular tank with a 29-gallon sump/fuge that's been running for about 4 years (former residents have gone on to bigger systems). There is no skimmer, but refugium is lighted and grows Chaetomorpha, and there is a healthy crop of halymedia in the display. Lights are 2x 150 MHs. I'm probably going to swap these to a LED system soon to save energy.
<Mmmm... I'd turn off one of the 150s myself>
The clowns' tankmates include a Bluestripe pipefish (which they ignore) and a rusty goby, along with three peppermint shrimp, a few hermits, and a brittle star that lives on the other end of the tank.
Corals are limited to a few softies - a long-tentacled toadstool and devils hand, and a couple of gorgonians.
<These are likely all fine>
I want to reiterate that the clownfish and all other inhabitants seem to feel fine. They're all eating and active. Any idea what this is and whether I should be alarmed?
Thanks for your time,
Robin
<Thank you for sharing, writing so well, completely... I would not be overly concerned here. I fully suspect that the stripe, discoloration are due to the hosting anemone, the behavior of the female, its interaction with the symbiont and conspecific. I would do nothing different here. Bob Fenner>

Toxic writing, needing to read re Clownfish Hlth.  6/27/09
hi i
<...>
have read through all 20 pages in the clownfish pages and still can not find a answer to my question. i have a newly acquired clownfish that has developed some sort of sore under its lip it is brown/green wart and has seemed to have gotten worse in the past few days. i have it in qt it first started with some white flakes over its body so i treated with formalin
<... too toxic>
and it cleared up and then it got a small scrape where the bump is now so i added some Melafix
<... worthless>
and then it turned into the bump now so i have treated with copper and it still seems to be getting worse so i am wanting to kno what exactaly it is and what is the best plan of action as of now.
thanks
Cory.
<Cory... go back and re-read the Clownfish pages... and formalin, phony remedies... And run your writing through spell/grammar checking before sending it to us. RMF>

Clownfish question! Data, reading...    6/26/09
Hi there WWM crew!
<SD>
We have a problem with one of our clownfish and we don't know if there is anything we can do. We have read some forums and your FAQ, but we are still worried and puzzled!
A few days ago we noticed that its mouth was open all the time and at first we thought (after some research) that it was just a case of lockjaw
<?...>
that would eventually solve itself out, but yesterday we saw what it looks like some kind of fungus or rotting on the outside of the mouth and it looks like it is losing its color (becoming more and more transparent) and basically just falling apart. The fish tries to get some food and every now and then it manages to keep it in, if it is small enough. There doesn't seem to be anything stuck in its mouth and we don't have any corals or things that could have stung it. We have also tried changing the water, but no improvements.
We have had our clownfish pair for about 2-3 weeks now and they seemed to be getting used to the tank just fine, until the whole mouth thing happened - the other fish is fine.
Please help! we really don't want to lose our little clownfish!
Thanks a lot!
SD
<... Need more useful data... Read here:
http://wetwebmedia.com/clnfshdisart.htm
and the linked files above... for examples... of the sorts of input we're looking for. Bob Fenner>